Official NBA General Discussion 2024-25 V2.0

[Los_29]

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so the magic are 3-5 players away? lol.

That was hilarious. Just a couple super important pieces away and not to mention, they need Banchero to take unprecedented leaps in his game. Other than that, they are close. lol.

[Thaddy]

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so the magic are 3-5 players away? lol.

That was hilarious. Just a couple super important pieces away and not to mention, they need Banchero to take unprecedented leaps in his game. Other than that, they are close. lol.

He's almost as bad as Barnes when it comes to scoring.

[sidsid]

OKC is not trading Chet unless they see something in his physicals that they worry about. Jdub is the guy being moved if a move is made.

Combining Chet and Giannis is a supercharged version of the early Brook/Jrue Bucks defense with an offense that's lightyears ahead of that group.

[sidsid]

Pacers are better than they’re given credit for. They can score against anybody and that alone makes them dangerous. Hali is playing at a high level again. Siakam is just **** awesome. They might surprise.

If those things keep up, the test will be teams who can actually keep up with rotations. Cavs/Celtics aren't going to give up after the third pass like the Bucks do. We haven't seen what happens yet when the machine breaks down since they just haven't needed it. And if the D will hold up

[Basketball_Jones]

I don’t watch much Banchero but he looks slow and takes bad shots because of it. Franz imo is a bit better because he can pass and gets down hill quicker but certainly I don’t like the idea of running your offense through those two. But I mean, people said this about Tatum and Brown as well but Orlando needs to revamp their roster the same way the Celtics did if they want to make it work.

[PushDaRock]

so the magic are 3-5 players away? lol.

That was hilarious. Just a couple super important pieces away and not to mention, they need Banchero to take unprecedented leaps in his game. Other than that, they are close. lol.

He's almost as bad as Barnes when it comes to scoring.

They're not even close as scorers. If Scottie was averaging 32 ppg in a playoff series, people wouldn't care how many shots he took do it.

[JB7]

brutal

giannis gonna ask out

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OKC

Chet+Salary Filler and all of Presti's picks

Chet alone is probably better than any package that any other team would offer. Don't think they would even need to add too many picks.

GSW has Butler for salary matching, plus Kuminga, Pods and draft picks.

Could see a larger deal where Giannis goes to GSW, Butler to Suns, Durant to Rockets, and pieces from the Rockets (Green & Jabari Smith Jr.?) to Bucks, plus Bucks get Kuminga in S&T, Pods and picks from GSW.

[ForeverTFC]

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so the magic are 3-5 players away? lol.

That was hilarious. Just a couple super important pieces away and not to mention, they need Banchero to take unprecedented leaps in his game. Other than that, they are close. lol.

I've actually been impressed with Banchero (and Cade) during these POs - though I'm lower on both than consensus so more room for them to impress. Yes, he's still inefficient, but he can generate shots for himself very consistently in that offense and that deserves some applause. I still don't understand how people project him to be a sure-fire number 1 option, but maybe it's just me. Franz imo has underperformed and I still don't understand how everyone projects this guy to be anything other than a good 3rd option. His 3pt shot is completely broken and I don't think he's a particularly good playmaker either. What am I missing?

[tsherkin]

so the magic are 3-5 players away? lol.

That was hilarious. Just a couple super important pieces away and not to mention, they need Banchero to take unprecedented leaps in his game. Other than that, they are close. lol.

I've actually been impressed with Banchero (and Cade) during these POs - though I'm lower on both than consensus so more room for them to impress. Yes, he's still inefficient, but he can generate shots for himself very consistently in that offense and that deserves some applause. I still don't understand how people project him to be a sure-fire number 1 option, but maybe it's just me. Franz imo has underperformed and I still don't understand how everyone projects this guy to be anything other than a good 3rd option. His 3pt shot is completely broken and I don't think he's a particularly good playmaker either. What am I missing?

On the back of shooting nearly 44% from 3, Banchero is posting 32 ppg on 51.6% TS. League average in the PS is 56.2% right now, so he's rocking some McGrady-like numbers there, -4.6% rTS with big volume. And he's doing that in about 42 mpg. 44% FG, about 65% from the line, 8.5 FTA/g.

It's impressive volume, but as you dig underneath, the scoring is a lot less impressive. It's volume gunnery, which is about what we've generally seen from him to date in his career. Obviously, Boston is a very good defense and Banchero hasn't been known to shot elite shot-making skills yet in his career, plus he's logging a ton of minutes. He's had 2 good games from 3 and 2 weak ones, and has mostly been pretty rough at the line.

He had a great opener in Game 1, then struggled in Game 2 because he blew donkeys at the line and was 2/6 from 3, which sort of wasted his 10/19 inside the arc. Struggled a LOT in Game 3 even though they won, pretty brutal overall, shooting 8/21 inside the arc. Then he sucked a great deal of ass in Game 4, shooting 12/32 (37.5% FG), 2/6 from 3 and 5/9 at the line for a sterling 43.1% TS. 31 points on 32 shots.

So I don't know that this is the series from which to draw big hopes for Banchero, though obviously it also isn't the one from which to write him off. He is what he has been: an inefficient volume guy with good mobility and some intriguing potential who burns away points at the line and struggles to make shots.

Wagner has been brutal in the playoffs so far and isn't an efficient guy to begin with. Lost his 3 a couple years ago, draws okay. He's actually killing it inside the arc right now against Boston but has been so wretched in volume from 3 that it hasn't mattered.

[PushDaRock]

OKC

Chet+Salary Filler and all of Presti's picks

Chet alone is probably better than any package that any other team would offer. Don't think they would even need to add too many picks.

GSW has Butler for salary matching, plus Kuminga, Pods and draft picks.

Could see a larger deal where Giannis goes to GSW, Butler to Suns, Durant to Rockets, and pieces from the Rockets (Green & Jabari Smith Jr.?) to Bucks, plus Bucks get Kuminga in S&T, Pods and picks from GSW.

Back to my original point, how are any of those better packages than getting Chet?

[PushDaRock]

That was hilarious. Just a couple super important pieces away and not to mention, they need Banchero to take unprecedented leaps in his game. Other than that, they are close. lol.

I've actually been impressed with Banchero (and Cade) during these POs - though I'm lower on both than consensus so more room for them to impress. Yes, he's still inefficient, but he can generate shots for himself very consistently in that offense and that deserves some applause. I still don't understand how people project him to be a sure-fire number 1 option, but maybe it's just me. Franz imo has underperformed and I still don't understand how everyone projects this guy to be anything other than a good 3rd option. His 3pt shot is completely broken and I don't think he's a particularly good playmaker either. What am I missing?

On the back of shooting nearly 44% from 3, Banchero is posting 32 ppg on 51.6% TS. League average in the PS is 56.2% right now, so he's rocking some McGrady-like numbers there, -4.6% rTS with big volume. And he's doing that in about 42 mpg. 44% FG, about 65% from the line, 8.5 FTA/g.

It's impressive volume, but as you dig underneath, the scoring is a lot less impressive. It's volume gunnery, which is about what we've generally seen from him to date in his career. Obviously, Boston is a very good defense and Banchero hasn't been known to shot elite shot-making skills yet in his career, plus he's logging a ton of minutes. He's had 2 good games from 3 and 2 weak ones, and has mostly been pretty rough at the line.

He had a great opener in Game 1, then struggled in Game 2 because he blew donkeys at the line and was 2/6 from 3, which sort of wasted his 10/19 inside the arc. Struggled a LOT in Game 3 even though they won, pretty brutal overall, shooting 8/21 inside the arc. Then he sucked a great deal of ass in Game 4, shooting 12/32 (37.5% FG), 2/6 from 3 and 5/9 at the line for a sterling 43.1% TS. 31 points on 32 shots.

So I don't know that this is the series from which to draw big hopes for Banchero, though obviously it also isn't the one from which to write him off. He is what he has been: an inefficient volume guy with good mobility and some intriguing potential who burns away points at the line and struggles to make shots.

Wagner has been brutal in the playoffs so far and isn't an efficient guy to begin with. Lost his 3 a couple years ago, draws okay. He's actually killing it inside the arc right now against Boston but has been so wretched in volume from 3 that it hasn't mattered.

I have my question marks on Paolo and the advanced stats don't paint him well and I don't know if he will ever get efficient enough to be a real #1 option, but 32 ppg is still 32 ppg regardless of how many shots it's taken to get it. I would rather have a young player that is ultra aggressive and has the confidence to shoot this much than someone who shrinks in the moment instead.

[tsherkin]

I have my question marks on Paolo and the advanced stats don't paint him well and I don't know if he will ever get efficient enough to be a real #1 option, but 32 ppg is still 32 ppg regardless of how many shots it's taken to get it.

I loathe the mentality that volume is an end or value in and of itself, to be honest. Particularly when your TS% is in the 40s, that's not actually worthwhile scoring. They'd have been better offloading some of that even to Wagner and distributing it around to other shooters.

I love the confidence, but he has helped shoot them out of the game a couple times, no question. There is an end to the utility of raw chuckery.

[DreamTeam09]

OKC

Chet+Salary Filler and all of Presti's picks

Chet alone is probably better than any package that any other team would offer. Don't think they would even need to add too many picks.

GSW has Butler for salary matching, plus Kuminga, Pods and draft picks.

Could see a larger deal where Giannis goes to GSW, Butler to Suns, Durant to Rockets, and pieces from the Rockets (Green & Jabari Smith Jr.?) to Bucks, plus Bucks get Kuminga in S&T, Pods and picks from GSW.

A lot of moving parts, but it actually makes sense. Jimmy gets shafted but ends up in PHX with Booker and beaches
Good brainstorming, that's what I'd be looking for if I trade Giannis

[PushDaRock]

I have my question marks on Paolo and the advanced stats don't paint him well and I don't know if he will ever get efficient enough to be a real #1 option, but 32 ppg is still 32 ppg regardless of how many shots it's taken to get it.

I loathe the mentality that volume is an end or value in and of itself, to be honest. Particularly when your TS% is in the 40s, that's not actually worthwhile scoring. They'd have been better offloading some of that even to Wagner and distributing it around to other shooters.

I love the confidence, but he has helped shoot them out of the game a couple times, no question. There is an end to the utility of raw chuckery.

If he's doing this still in year 7 and they're out in round 1 every year, we can worry about it then.

For now, I'll take the guy in year 3 that's willing to put the team on his back.

[tsherkin]

If he's doing this still in year 7 and they're out in round 1 every year, we can worry about it then.

For now, I'll take the guy in year 3 that's willing to put the team on his back.

I suppose it depends to whom you would be comparing him. He's still young and has a whole load of potential right now. At the moment, however, he's just an inefficient gunner who doesn't defend well. The trick with him is always, what does next season bring? Is he going to figure out how to make shots, or is he a big Larry Hughes with more freedom to shoot? He's shown flashes, but he has to put them together meaningfully for that to matter, at least at some point.

You know what I mean?

[JB7]

Chet alone is probably better than any package that any other team would offer. Don't think they would even need to add too many picks.

GSW has Butler for salary matching, plus Kuminga, Pods and draft picks.

Could see a larger deal where Giannis goes to GSW, Butler to Suns, Durant to Rockets, and pieces from the Rockets (Green & Jabari Smith Jr.?) to Bucks, plus Bucks get Kuminga in S&T, Pods and picks from GSW.

Back to my original point, how are any of those better packages than getting Chet?

A bunch of young players from Rockets (Green, Jabari, etc), plus Kuminga and Pods, and picks from GSW (which will probably be worth more in the future, once Curry retires), is probably a much better package than what OKC could offer.

The problem for OKC is the matching contracts. With both Chet and J-Dub on rookie deals, OKC would have to move additional salary (IH & Dort) plus Chet, to make the salaries work, and at that point, OKC is stripping away too much of a team that ended up 1st in the West. Presti is not the GM to make that bold of a move.

[JB7]

Chet alone is probably better than any package that any other team would offer. Don't think they would even need to add too many picks.

GSW has Butler for salary matching, plus Kuminga, Pods and draft picks.

Could see a larger deal where Giannis goes to GSW, Butler to Suns, Durant to Rockets, and pieces from the Rockets (Green & Jabari Smith Jr.?) to Bucks, plus Bucks get Kuminga in S&T, Pods and picks from GSW.

A lot of moving parts, but it actually makes sense. Jimmy gets shafted but ends up in PHX with Booker and beaches
Good brainstorming, that's what I'd be looking for if I trade Giannis

Remember, Jimmy originally wanted to go to the Suns over GSW (because he knew they would extend him).

[PushDaRock]

GSW has Butler for salary matching, plus Kuminga, Pods and draft picks.

Could see a larger deal where Giannis goes to GSW, Butler to Suns, Durant to Rockets, and pieces from the Rockets (Green & Jabari Smith Jr.?) to Bucks, plus Bucks get Kuminga in S&T, Pods and picks from GSW.

Back to my original point, how are any of those better packages than getting Chet?

A bunch of young players from Rockets (Green, Jabari, etc), plus Kuminga and Pods, and picks from GSW (which will probably be worth more in the future, once Curry retires), is probably a much better package than what OKC could offer.

The problem for OKC is the matching contracts. With both Chet and J-Dub on rookie deals, OKC would have to move additional salary (IH & Dort) plus Chet, to make the salaries work, and at that point, OKC is stripping away too much of a team that ended up 1st in the West. Presti is not the GM to make that bold of a move.

That's a different discussion, but I'm not seeing how any of those packages are better than getting Chet like I said.

OKC could blow any offer away if they wanted.

[Brinbe]

Heat going out sad. The treadmill awaits

[MainEvent]

what a beatdown, is this even legal?