Since Barrett’s injury Raptors offensive rating has plummeted to last in the league

[LascelleL]

I feel RJ is so underrated its crazy. Hopefully this stretch shows people he's not

[everdiso]

Yeah if Dick/Walter/Agbaji can't be better than this then our ability to withstand injuries to the wings is pretty low.

Backup bigs and backup PG look good tho.

There's only one big on the roster.

Poeltl (26.5mpg): 9'4" standing reach, 240lbs
Barnes (33.4mpg): 9'0" standing reach, 235lbs
Mamu (19.0mpg): 8'11" standing reach, 240lbs
CMB (18.2mpg): 8'11" standing reach, 240lbs

Allen (26.1mpg): 9'2" standing reach, 235lbs
Mobley (34.1mpg): 9'2" standing reach*, 220lbs
Wade (22.3mpg): 8'10" standing reach, 230lbs
Nance (15.0mpg): 9"0" standing reach, 245lbs

Towns (33.4mpg): 9'1" standing reach, 250lbs
Anunoby (31.1mpg): 9'0" standing reach, 235lbs
Robinson (17.3mpg): 9'3" standing reach, 240lbs
Yabusele (10.3mpg): 8'11" standing reach, 260lbs

Duren (29.3mpg): 9'5" standing reach*, 240lbs
Harris (29.7mpg): 8'8" standing reach, 225lbs
Stewart (22.7mpg): 9'1" standing reach, 250lbs
Reed (12.1mpg): 9'2" standing reach, 220lbs

Adebayo (30.5mpg): 9'0" standing reach, 250lbs
Wiggins (33.1mpg): 8'11" standing reach, 200lbs
Ware (24.4mpg): 9'5" standing reach, 230lbs
Jovic (19.4mpg): 9'1" standing reach, 225lbs

[Brinbe]

Yeah if Dick/Walter/Agbaji can't be better than this then our ability to withstand injuries to the wings is pretty low.

Backup bigs and backup PG look good tho.

There's only one big on the roster.

Poeltl (26.5mpg): 9'4" standing reach, 240lbs
Barnes (33.4mpg): 9'0" standing reach, 235lbs
Mamu (19.0mpg): 8'11" standing reach, 240lbs
CMB (18.2mpg): 8'11" standing reach, 240lbs

Allen (26.1mpg): 9'2" standing reach, 235lbs
Mobley (34.1mpg): 9'2" standing reach*, 220lbs
Wade (22.3mpg): 8'10" standing reach, 230lbs
Nance (15.0mpg): 9"0" standing reach, 245lbs

Towns (33.4mpg): 9'1" standing reach, 250lbs
Anunoby (31.1mpg): 9'0" standing reach, 235lbs
Robinson (17.3mpg): 9'3" standing reach, 240lbs
Yabusele (10.3mpg): 8'11" standing reach, 260lbs

Duren (29.3mpg): 9'5" standing reach*, 240lbs
Harris (29.7mpg): 8'8" standing reach, 225lbs
Stewart (22.7mpg): 9'1" standing reach, 250lbs
Reed (12.1mpg): 9'2" standing reach, 220lbs

Adebayo (30.5mpg): 9'0" standing reach, 250lbs
Wiggins (33.1mpg): 8'11" standing reach, 200lbs
Ware (24.4mpg): 9'5" standing reach, 230lbs
Jovic (19.4mpg): 9'1" standing reach, 225lbs

Now how many of those teams have a starting C nursing an ailing back that they have to rest every b2b? Just completely missing the point of why it'sa need. We're talking about someone that can replicate some of what Yak does, not a 4 shifting to the 5. CMB/Scottie aren't real Cs. Mamu is like a 4.5 at best.

That optionality and diversity only helps with or without Yak and we have a bunch of existing duplication on the roster so not sure why there's this always constant need to be contrarians for every single thing.

How many shooting guards do we need?

[tsherkin]

I don't think we suck on offense just because RJ is out. There's a lot of players fading at the same time. The guys fighting for minutes are trying hard but not looking comfortable.

It's easy to point to RJ's absence, and it has a cascading effect. But you're probably right, there are a couple of things going on simultaneously. Our end of game play-calling has leaned a bit too hard on BI isos, and he's probably dead-legging it a little. Quick's mostly shooting jumpers, so that comes and goes. The bench guys aren't getting it done.

Against Charlotte, we were basically fine until the 4th quarter and OT. The bench was 2/7 in the fourth. BI and Quick combined to go 3/13. Ball movement didn't look as good, just lots of isos. We were clearly tired, among other things.

Against the Knicks, setting aside that they're just actually a good team, we were missing two starters, which was always going to be a problem. When Poeltl sits, we have huge problems. Then BI and Quick sucked in the first, Barnes was bricking up a storm in the second half, Quick was ice cold in the 4th, the whole bench failed us in the 4th, etc, etc, etc.

RJ is actually our most efficient volume scorer right now (a hair ahead of Scottie), though, so missing his volume and efficiency (and playstyle) is a pretty easy look for our troubles. You shuffle that volume load onto the others and they're falling apart, and the bench isn't able to pick up the slack at the moment.

In theory, we have four guys (3, when RJ is out) who carry the load, but they seem to work best at maximum distribution of responsibility, so taking one of the guys out is a big Jenga piece, you know what I mean?

[MEDIC]

Yeah if Dick/Walter/Agbaji can't be better than this then our ability to withstand injuries to the wings is pretty low.

Backup bigs and backup PG look good tho.

There's only one big on the roster.

Poeltl (26.5mpg): 9'4" standing reach, 240lbs
Barnes (33.4mpg): 9'0" standing reach, 235lbs
Mamu (19.0mpg): 8'11" standing reach, 240lbs
CMB (18.2mpg): 8'11" standing reach, 240lbs

Allen (26.1mpg): 9'2" standing reach, 235lbs
Mobley (34.1mpg): 9'2" standing reach*, 220lbs
Wade (22.3mpg): 8'10" standing reach, 230lbs
Nance (15.0mpg): 9"0" standing reach, 245lbs

Towns (33.4mpg): 9'1" standing reach, 250lbs
Anunoby (31.1mpg): 9'0" standing reach, 235lbs
Robinson (17.3mpg): 9'3" standing reach, 240lbs
Yabusele (10.3mpg): 8'11" standing reach, 260lbs

Duren (29.3mpg): 9'5" standing reach*, 240lbs
Harris (29.7mpg): 8'8" standing reach, 225lbs
Stewart (22.7mpg): 9'1" standing reach, 250lbs
Reed (12.1mpg): 9'2" standing reach, 220lbs

Adebayo (30.5mpg): 9'0" standing reach, 250lbs
Wiggins (33.1mpg): 8'11" standing reach, 200lbs
Ware (24.4mpg): 9'5" standing reach, 230lbs
Jovic (19.4mpg): 9'1" standing reach, 225lbs

Just because you are long, doesn't mean you know how to function effectively as a C. Ingram has the 2nd highest standing reach on the team at 9'2" & hs game doesn't tramslate to playing C at all.

You can see a massive difference between Poeltl's defensive rotations, screening, rolling & finishing compared to the other guys you mentioned. A small part of it is length, but most of it is years of experience at C & instinctively knowing where to be.

[MEDIC]

Love how RJ fans like to point out his assist numbers. When most people that have a problem with his vision are talking about his dumbass forced layups over traffic or when he doesn’t make the easy pass in transition. Almost like they’re debating in bad faith.

Lol. Come on man.

There is no such thing as mistake free basketball.

Players have tendencies & like anything in life, you take the good with the bad. I absolutely hate a lot of the shots that BI takes (much worse than RJ), but we need his shot making ability so you have to accept it sometimes (and hope he improves).

I have no issue with RJ's offense. In fact I really like it. There aren't too many players who primarily play off the ball that can do what he does & get you 20 points.

If he was a ball dominant player (Derozan), I would have some.major issues with the direction of the team (trying to force a square peg into a round hole). He's not though. His is an opportunistic (mostly off ball player) scorer that doesn't have many plays called fot him. He makes scoring easier for the team.

My biggest issue last season was the FT shooting, but it looks like he has put in somework.

He's never going to be an elite defender, but as long as he is putting in effort out there, you have to be good with that.

He also has yet to hit is prime years & seems to be a worker. I think he'll continue to improve.

[everdiso]

There's only one big on the roster.

Poeltl (26.5mpg): 9'4" standing reach, 240lbs
Barnes (33.4mpg): 9'0" standing reach, 235lbs
Mamu (19.0mpg): 8'11" standing reach, 240lbs
CMB (18.2mpg): 8'11" standing reach, 240lbs

Allen (26.1mpg): 9'2" standing reach, 235lbs
Mobley (34.1mpg): 9'2" standing reach*, 220lbs
Wade (22.3mpg): 8'10" standing reach, 230lbs
Nance (15.0mpg): 9"0" standing reach, 245lbs

Towns (33.4mpg): 9'1" standing reach, 250lbs
Anunoby (31.1mpg): 9'0" standing reach, 235lbs
Robinson (17.3mpg): 9'3" standing reach, 240lbs
Yabusele (10.3mpg): 8'11" standing reach, 260lbs

Duren (29.3mpg): 9'5" standing reach*, 240lbs
Harris (29.7mpg): 8'8" standing reach, 225lbs
Stewart (22.7mpg): 9'1" standing reach, 250lbs
Reed (12.1mpg): 9'2" standing reach, 220lbs

Adebayo (30.5mpg): 9'0" standing reach, 250lbs
Wiggins (33.1mpg): 8'11" standing reach, 200lbs
Ware (24.4mpg): 9'5" standing reach, 230lbs
Jovic (19.4mpg): 9'1" standing reach, 225lbs

Now how many of those teams have a starting C nursing an ailing back that they have to rest every b2b? Just completely missing the point of why it'sa need. We're talking about someone that can replicate some of what Yak does, not a 4 shifting to the 5. CMB/Scottie aren't real Cs. Mamu is like a 4.5 at best.

That optionality and diversity only helps with or without Yak and we have a bunch of existing duplication on the roster so not sure why there's this always constant need to be contrarians for every single thing.

How many shooting guards do we need?

I think RJ being out has clearly had a bigger impact than Poeltl being out, and it's not too surprising given that Mamu/CMB give us much better big man play than Dick/Jakobe/Agbaji give us on the wings.

but yes, you take out any of these team's starting centers and they'll be hurt in the big man department. thankfully this resting of Poeltl is likely precautionary and short term.

[everdiso]

There's only one big on the roster.

Poeltl (26.5mpg): 9'4" standing reach, 240lbs
Barnes (33.4mpg): 9'0" standing reach, 235lbs
Mamu (19.0mpg): 8'11" standing reach, 240lbs
CMB (18.2mpg): 8'11" standing reach, 240lbs

Allen (26.1mpg): 9'2" standing reach, 235lbs
Mobley (34.1mpg): 9'2" standing reach*, 220lbs
Wade (22.3mpg): 8'10" standing reach, 230lbs
Nance (15.0mpg): 9"0" standing reach, 245lbs

Towns (33.4mpg): 9'1" standing reach, 250lbs
Anunoby (31.1mpg): 9'0" standing reach, 235lbs
Robinson (17.3mpg): 9'3" standing reach, 240lbs
Yabusele (10.3mpg): 8'11" standing reach, 260lbs

Duren (29.3mpg): 9'5" standing reach*, 240lbs
Harris (29.7mpg): 8'8" standing reach, 225lbs
Stewart (22.7mpg): 9'1" standing reach, 250lbs
Reed (12.1mpg): 9'2" standing reach, 220lbs

Adebayo (30.5mpg): 9'0" standing reach, 250lbs
Wiggins (33.1mpg): 8'11" standing reach, 200lbs
Ware (24.4mpg): 9'5" standing reach, 230lbs
Jovic (19.4mpg): 9'1" standing reach, 225lbs

Just because you are long, doesn't mean you know how to function effectively as a C. Ingram has the 2nd highest standing reach on the team at 9'2" & hs game doesn't tramslate to playing C at all.

You can see a massive difference between Poeltl's defensive rotations, screening, rolling & finishing compared to the other guys you mentioned. A small part of it is length, but most of it is years of experience at C & instinctively knowing where to be.

you're right that length isn't the only thing, which is why i included weight obviously.

but BI only weighs 195lbs, so he's obviously not a big man.

even then though, his great length helps us on the inside, on both ends.


as for all those things that you love about Poeltl there - most big men can't do any of that effectively. that's what makes Poeltl so good despite not being able to shoot. but good luck finding another guy like poeltl at that size. much likelier that a guy like CMB can provide those kind of rotations than most generic bench "big men".

[Tripod]

There's only one big on the roster.

Poeltl (26.5mpg): 9'4" standing reach, 240lbs
Barnes (33.4mpg): 9'0" standing reach, 235lbs
Mamu (19.0mpg): 8'11" standing reach, 240lbs
CMB (18.2mpg): 8'11" standing reach, 240lbs

Allen (26.1mpg): 9'2" standing reach, 235lbs
Mobley (34.1mpg): 9'2" standing reach*, 220lbs
Wade (22.3mpg): 8'10" standing reach, 230lbs
Nance (15.0mpg): 9"0" standing reach, 245lbs

Towns (33.4mpg): 9'1" standing reach, 250lbs
Anunoby (31.1mpg): 9'0" standing reach, 235lbs
Robinson (17.3mpg): 9'3" standing reach, 240lbs
Yabusele (10.3mpg): 8'11" standing reach, 260lbs

Duren (29.3mpg): 9'5" standing reach*, 240lbs
Harris (29.7mpg): 8'8" standing reach, 225lbs
Stewart (22.7mpg): 9'1" standing reach, 250lbs
Reed (12.1mpg): 9'2" standing reach, 220lbs

Adebayo (30.5mpg): 9'0" standing reach, 250lbs
Wiggins (33.1mpg): 8'11" standing reach, 200lbs
Ware (24.4mpg): 9'5" standing reach, 230lbs
Jovic (19.4mpg): 9'1" standing reach, 225lbs

Just because you are long, doesn't mean you know how to function effectively as a C. Ingram has the 2nd highest standing reach on the team at 9'2" & hs game doesn't tramslate to playing C at all.

You can see a massive difference between Poeltl's defensive rotations, screening, rolling & finishing compared to the other guys you mentioned. A small part of it is length, but most of it is years of experience at C & instinctively knowing where to be.

And it doesn't take into account jumping ability. Barnes and Yak barely get off the floor if at a standstill.

People could just watch games and see when Yak is out, we are manhandled by opponents on the boards and struggle setting proper screens.

It's real simple to have 1 less guard sitting around/barely playing and instead have a big C that you CAN insert in games where it's needed.

[kalel123]

This is not a missing-RJ-Barrett problem. SG position is supposed to be our position of depth based on sheer number of bodies we have there. But every single one of them is so limited and mediocre that it's become meaningless depth. Smoke and mirrors with no substance. It's kinda sad that when one strength we have is supposed to be drafting but the two most prominent of those backups are our own picks and only one of them shows brief flashes of life at the moment.

It's a double-whammy because in turn, we have severe lack of depth in front court and get doubly impacted when we have to rest Poeltl or if he's out with anything.

In the short-term, it'd serve us better to cut our losses with a few of our backup SG's and bring balance to the roster. It's time. We've seen enough.

[Prestige]

Even a questionable guy like Cam Whitmore is a better player than any of our SGs. Colin Sexton. Maybe Jaden Ivey needs a change of scenery. Caris LeVert. There are tons of these underutilized players on the benches of other teams. Bobby needs to find that diamond in the rough.

If the backup C position isn’t addressed by the deadline, Bobby is just plain negligent.

[Boogie!]

Love how RJ fans like to point out his assist numbers. When most people that have a problem with his vision are talking about his dumbass forced layups over traffic or when he doesn’t make the easy pass in transition. Almost like they’re debating in bad faith.

Everyone on the team has plays where they makedumbass passes or takes to the basket. Even Scottie Barnes makes stupid passes.

Ignoring all of rjs positives, especially when he’s leaps ahead of everyone else on the bench, all while his numbers and efficiency as a scorer are elite, is the definition of being a hater.

[Eating a Book]

I think ATL and tsherkin have it. RJ being out makes our offense worse, for sure, but the dip down to 30th isn't solely due to that. Just a bit of a team-wide cold streak.

Once RJ is back we should give BI a game or two off. He's been forcing it a bit and I think he needs a week or something.

[TorontoBarneys]

He's a mediocre player but the function that he does provide is extremely unique to our roster and subjectively adds a lot of value to our offense.

Yes scoring is a very niche role in the NBA

It's the way he scores that's important. Why be arrogant when you don't even understand the post lol.

[Jakay]

He's a mediocre player but the function that he does provide is extremely unique to our roster and subjectively adds a lot of value to our offense.

Yes scoring is a very niche role in the NBA

It's the way he scores that's important. Why be arrogant when you don't even understand the post lol.

Attacking the basket is an unimportant way to score?

I stand by my arrogance.

[MEDIC]

Even a questionable guy like Cam Whitmore is a better player than any of our SGs. Colin Sexton. Maybe Jaden Ivey needs a change of scenery. Caris LeVert. There are tons of these underutilized players on the benches of other teams. Bobby needs to find that diamond in the rough.

If the backup C position isn’t addressed by the deadline, Bobby is just plain negligent.

Yup. Veteran guard that has some reliable skills.

Every good team has these. The Raptors have to decide if they want to be one of those good teams.

I think Bobby makes some changes at or before the deadline of one of these young guys doesn't step up.

[tsherkin]

Yes scoring is a very niche role in the NBA

It's the way he scores that's important. Why be arrogant when you don't even understand the post lol.

Attacking the basket is an unimportant way to score?

I stand by my arrogance.

I think he was trying to point out that what RJ brings as a scorer isn't replicated by our other guys. The rim pressure, the off-ball cutting, the amount of shots he gets in the RA, his value in transition, etc. And that's quite accurate. I think that's what he meant by "unique to our roster," rather than trying to describe him as unique in the broader league.

Barney can correct me if I'm wrong, but that's how his posts have read to me, and that makes plenty of sense.

[tsherkin]

Even a questionable guy like Cam Whitmore is a better player than any of our SGs. Colin Sexton. Maybe Jaden Ivey needs a change of scenery. Caris LeVert. There are tons of these underutilized players on the benches of other teams. Bobby needs to find that diamond in the rough.

If the backup C position isn’t addressed by the deadline, Bobby is just plain negligent.

Yup. Veteran guard that has some reliable skills.

Every good team has these. The Raptors have to decide if they want to be one of those good teams.

I think Bobby makes some changes at or before the deadline of one of these young guys doesn't step up.

Would be nice if we were able to make a move. Having someone else besides RJ who can get into the RA would be really nice.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Even a questionable guy like Cam Whitmore is a better player than any of our SGs. Colin Sexton. Maybe Jaden Ivey needs a change of scenery. Caris LeVert. There are tons of these underutilized players on the benches of other teams. Bobby needs to find that diamond in the rough.

If the backup C position isn’t addressed by the deadline, Bobby is just plain negligent.

Yup. Veteran guard that has some reliable skills.

Every good team has these. The Raptors have to decide if they want to be one of those good teams.

I think Bobby makes some changes at or before the deadline of one of these young guys doesn't step up.

I honestly can't think of one good team right now that has a veteran guard with reliable skills coming off the bench. Actually, I can. Tim Hardaway Jr.

The Raptors put all their salary in the starting line-up. They stagger these guys with the bench. It's been working. Like hell they should add Collin Sexton to that. It's like misreading the entire team dynamic.

[ItsDanger]

Even a questionable guy like Cam Whitmore is a better player than any of our SGs. Colin Sexton. Maybe Jaden Ivey needs a change of scenery. Caris LeVert. There are tons of these underutilized players on the benches of other teams. Bobby needs to find that diamond in the rough.

If the backup C position isn’t addressed by the deadline, Bobby is just plain negligent.

Yup. Veteran guard that has some reliable skills.

Every good team has these. The Raptors have to decide if they want to be one of those good teams.

I think Bobby makes some changes at or before the deadline of one of these young guys doesn't step up.