Shams: Raps acquire Ingram for Brown + Olynyk + IND 1st

[TorontoBarneys]

If we are not tanking beyond this year (if even that) then the homerun deal to make in the summer would be throwing everything we have at acquiring Booker. To do that, we need to make the 2025 pick as sexy as possible.

Booker/Barnes/Ingram is a legit trio.

We are not getting Booker. Multiple other teams are setup better to get him, including Houston who owns PHX draft for pretty much that specific reason. If we get a draft pick high enough to trade for Booker that likely means we should be keeping that draft pick because that player will have Booker+ upside (Flagg or maybe Harper).

If we get Flagg then I think there's a very real chance we do, actually.

[dTox]

This deal is like getting an incredible deal on a high end carpet cleaner at a garage sale and bringing it home to your house that only has hardwood floors.

The value I am not mad at but the fit is odd.

Nailed it

Sent from my Pixel 9 Pro using RealGM mobile app

[Tha Cynic]

I am not happy about the possibility of paying a 27 year old player who has yet to play more than 62 games in 5-6 years 40+ Mill per season, this trade has more than 1 reason to cause concern. Not just about the lottery picks. There's also the basketball reasons:

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We used to complain about Scottie not having room to operate because Siakam lives in his comfort spots, well, we just doubled down on that with adding Ingram who literally has an island built in the midrange. Also adding to the fact that RJ also cannot shoot 3s, this is a messy, crowded space inside the arch.

Except Ingram can shoot 3s and has actually shot it well when he has shot 6 3s a game.

Brother, he can shoot 3's, but doesn't, the data is there for you to review, he lives and breathes midrange. We have only 1 player who is an effective 3 pt shooter and does it in high volume, and that's IQ. In the modern NBA, it's a recipe for disaster. If you don't believe, me, look at how Ingram + Zion worked out for the Pels. Both went on runs, when the other sat or was injured, when both played, their numbers shrank.

He’s taking 6 3s a game this season. He has two other seasons where he took 6 3s for the full season and shot 39% and 38%. We can change his shot profile. Also he generally starts his offense from the perimeter while Barnes should be starting from the midrange area and going down hill more. There is no clash here. His shooting is not an issue and actually compliments Barnes well

[torsport]

I think it's certainly a talent improvement compared to what was sent out.

Having Ingram is better than having Brown and KO. Losing a first and second is not ideal, but I don't think either would be huge impact picks. We still have a pick in 2026 which will be probably better than the Indy first we gave up.

Not 100% sure of the fit of Ingram long term. I do think he improves the team offensively, and he is definitely a shot creator, something we don't have on the team, but doesn't make us a contender. Maybe paired with a lottery selection I'd feel differently. We'll have to see.

But I don't even think it's horrible if Raps do not re-sign Ingram. I think it will be easier to do a sign and trade with Ingram than it was for Bruce Brown over the summer. If we do re-sign him, I think it will be less than what Pascal went for. The new economics of the NBA doesn't see GMs breaking the bank for an Ingram type player.

This may not be the end of the Pascal trade tree, but if it does end here with Ingram, Ochai, Walter and some cap flexibility, I think Raps got pretty good value in the end.

[ConSarnit]

I am not happy about the possibility of paying a 27 year old player who has yet to play more than 62 games in 5-6 years 40+ Mill per season, this trade has more than 1 reason to cause concern. Not just about the lottery picks. There's also the basketball reasons:

Read on Twitter

We used to complain about Scottie not having room to operate because Siakam lives in his comfort spots, well, we just doubled down on that with adding Ingram who literally has an island built in the midrange. Also adding to the fact that RJ also cannot shoot 3s, this is a messy, crowded space inside the arch.

Except Ingram can shoot 3s and has actually shot it well when he has shot 6 3s a game.

Brother, he can shoot 3's, but doesn't, the data is there for you to review, he lives and breathes midrange. We have only 1 player who is an effective 3 pt shooter and does it in high volume, and that's IQ. In the modern NBA, it's a recipe for disaster. If you don't believe, me, look at how Ingram + Zion worked out for the Pels. Both went on runs, when the other sat or was injured, when both played, their numbers shrank.

He's scaled up his 3pt shooting this season. You'd have to assume we are going to try and "RJ" him by shifting his shot diet around. Drop his midrange attempts and up his 3pt attempts. If that happens is TBD but Ingram has had multiple seasons taking >6 3pa per game.

[Merit]

Pretty much 2 assumptions have to be made here in terms of Masai's likely thought process with this trade:

1) Masai believes the Indy pick will end up post-lottery (he's not betting against Indy in 2026).
2) Masai believes Ingram's extension and the rookie scale of our 2025 FRP will fit into the tax space we have for next season (currently at around $50M with 9 roster spots filled according to Spotrac).

If point #2 isn't the case, someone else is going to have to go to make Ingram's salary and the 2025 FRP rookie scale salary fit under the tax, and it's probably going to have to be someone in the RJ/Poeltl salary range for multiple reasons.

Edit: someone will likely have to go regardless, because they can't just sign Ingram and the 2025 FRP and run an 11 man roster.

Also for anyone thinking MLSE will authorize spending into the tax next season, that's a pipe dream, not happening.

Boucher is expiring and I don’t think he comes back at the same price

We are going to be hard pressed to retain anyone or bring in anyone as a FA.

Let's assume Ingram takes the same 25% of the cap deal he did last time. That means he starts at $38.8m

Ingram: $38.8m
5th pick: $7.5m
39th pick: $1.5m

This probably leaves us with maybe $3m below the tax. That means Boucher and Mitchell are gone. We're going to have to figure out how to get big man depth because currently all we have is Mogbo.

Yeah I doubt Boucher comes back, but you never know. Mitchell is already gone. We’re going to buy out PJ tucker most likely…

[Reeko]

I am not happy about the possibility of paying a 27 year old player who has yet to play more than 62 games in 5-6 years 40+ Mill per season, this trade has more than 1 reason to cause concern. Not just about the lottery picks. There's also the basketball reasons:

Read on Twitter

We used to complain about Scottie not having room to operate because Siakam lives in his comfort spots, well, we just doubled down on that with adding Ingram who literally has an island built in the midrange. Also adding to the fact that RJ also cannot shoot 3s, this is a messy, crowded space inside the arch.

Except Ingram can shoot 3s and has actually shot it well when he has shot 6 3s a game.

Brother, he can shoot 3's, but doesn't, the data is there for you to review, he lives and breathes midrange. We have only 1 player who is an effective 3 pt shooter and does it in high volume, and that's IQ. In the modern NBA, it's a recipe for disaster. If you don't believe, me, look at how Ingram + Zion worked out for the Pels. Both went on runs, when the other sat or was injured, when both played, their numbers shrank.

Right, obviously the coaching staff needs to get him to change his shot diet. As for RJ, all he does is either shoot 3s or attack the rim, he has zero mid range game.

[GhostDog123]

Lots of idiots on this thread bashing A++ trade, smth. We
just got retool and we will be in playoffs next year with our core + BI!!! Our young core will get experience there and will improve even more (who if cares 1-2 round exit)! Then we will evaluate what we have and make more moves if needed. Majority here wants to become WAS or CHA … idiots! Also we will get high draft pick this year!!! Masai is GOAT!!!

Warned: Baiting

[ConSarnit]

If we are not tanking beyond this year (if even that) then the homerun deal to make in the summer would be throwing everything we have at acquiring Booker. To do that, we need to make the 2025 pick as sexy as possible.

Booker/Barnes/Ingram is a legit trio.

We are not getting Booker. Multiple other teams are setup better to get him, including Houston who owns PHX draft for pretty much that specific reason. If we get a draft pick high enough to trade for Booker that likely means we should be keeping that draft pick because that player will have Booker+ upside (Flagg or maybe Harper).

If we get Flagg then I think there's a very real chance we do, actually.

That would seem very stupid considering Flagg's upside and cost controlled nature over the next 4 years (vs paying Booker $60m in 2027)

[PushDaRock]

I am not happy about the possibility of paying a 27 year old player who has yet to play more than 62 games in 5-6 years 40+ Mill per season, this trade has more than 1 reason to cause concern. Not just about the lottery picks. There's also the basketball reasons:

Read on Twitter

We used to complain about Scottie not having room to operate because Siakam lives in his comfort spots, well, we just doubled down on that with adding Ingram who literally has an island built in the midrange. Also adding to the fact that RJ also cannot shoot 3s, this is a messy, crowded space inside the arch.

Except Ingram can shoot 3s and has actually shot it well when he has shot 6 3s a game.

Brother, he can shoot 3's, but doesn't, the data is there for you to review, he lives and breathes midrange. We have only 1 player who is an effective 3 pt shooter and does it in high volume, and that's IQ. In the modern NBA, it's a recipe for disaster. If you don't believe, me, look at how Ingram + Zion worked out for the Pels. Both went on runs, when the other sat or was injured, when both played, their numbers shrank.

I expect Ingram to take a lot of 3's in our offense. He's back up to 2.3 makes per game this year and had a couple seasons where he made about 2.5 per game on 38-39%. Zion is a complete non shooter, not sure how that's really relevant as it pertains to our offense.

[ConSarnit]

Boucher is expiring and I don’t think he comes back at the same price

We are going to be hard pressed to retain anyone or bring in anyone as a FA.

Let's assume Ingram takes the same 25% of the cap deal he did last time. That means he starts at $38.8m

Ingram: $38.8m
5th pick: $7.5m
39th pick: $1.5m

This probably leaves us with maybe $3m below the tax. That means Boucher and Mitchell are gone. We're going to have to figure out how to get big man depth because currently all we have is Mogbo.

Yeah I doubt Boucher comes back, but you never know. Mitchell is already gone. We’re going to buy out PJ tucker most likely…

Hadn't seen that Mitchell was traded. Feels like Boucher can get the tax-MLE, which is likely double what we can offer.

[GIZMO]

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?s=46

This is what I expected to read but you pseduo execs are never pleased.

Yeah I don't love Ingram, not excited about the deal....

But man the over reactions are nuts.

Where is the over reaction?
Some people love the trade, some hate it and some are confused of the direction the team that was saying to the fan base “be patient”.
This trade has presented a lot of question marks. Isn’t this the place to raise these questions and discuss it? Or are we to blindly just agree with the direction of the team?

[ontnut]

I honestly hope that pick ends up being a top 5 pick in 2026 just so everyone saying "it's great value" will shut up.

This team isn't close to making any sort or noise, and we just gave up a 1st. I'd rather have used the pick to move up in the draff if Masai didn't want to keep it. Puke worthy trade IMO.

Why would you hope that the trade is worse for the raptors while being a Raptor fan? I don’t get it.

Some people really just enjoy playing the "gotcha" game. Especially when they can take the 10% odds side, with no consequences for being wrong 90% of the time.

[Duffman100]

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?s=46

This is what I expected to read but you pseduo execs are never pleased.

Yeah I don't love Ingram, not excited about the deal....

But man the over reactions are nuts.

Where is the over reaction?

Um..I'd suggest you go through some threads.

[TGM]

I think the tank is full on. Everyone should go and look at the upcoming schedule.

We are very likley to lose every game in Feb. Also, when people said we had an easier March schedule, that was before the trade deadline. A few of the March teams are now much stronger and also teams that were thought to be bottom feeders like the Pistons, Blazers, Spurs are now all pushing for the playoffs.

Raps are not going to rush BI back and I suspect we will see a lot of resting and starters being out in March.

There is a pretty healthy gap of our record from the teams in front of us. Brooklyn is the only one that is neck to neck and they are getting back Cam Thomas soon and looks like keeping Cam. I see us maybe shifting 2 spots up at most. So I think we are safe!

[RaptorLakerJay]

Some interesting stats I found. Apologies if it's a lot, but I think it gives us a good picture at how he can excel.

These one shows that he has the ability to get to the line. Hopefully Darko could unlock that more in him.

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His defense might be underrated?

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His midrange game

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Elite shot-making ability

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Improved his pullup 3 point%

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Great at moving off-ball

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Elite at handoffs

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[GIZMO]

Yeah I don't love Ingram, not excited about the deal....

But man the over reactions are nuts.

Where is the over reaction?

Um..I'd suggest you go through some threads.

My point stands. Obviously wupith a large fan base you’ll have some over reaction but the majority is a good discussion and that’s what this board is for.

[disoblige]

Bad fit, we have 5 starters who needs the ball. Quickley, Barret, Barnes, Ingram, Poelt. Jesus

You said he needs the ball. That is just not true.

You can’t score a bucket without the ball.

Jak doesn’t need many plays called for him because he’s an excellent offensive rebounder and a connective piece on offense.

We are playing well when Poeltl is playing with defensive players like Boucher or Agbaji.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/poeltja01/lineups/2025

[Duffman100]

Where is the over reaction?

Um..I'd suggest you go through some threads.

My point stands. Obviously wupith a large fan base you’ll have some over reaction but the majority is a good discussion and that’s what this board is for.

Oh agreed and I'm not against a 'what is this trade?" I'm not even sure I'm on board with it.

The Fs on the Grade the Trade and "Masai is washed" comments are more what I'm talking about.

[ontnut]

This deal is like getting an incredible deal on a high end carpet cleaner at a garage sale and bringing it home to your house that only has hardwood floors.

The value I am not mad at but the fit is odd.

I've got a carpet you can clean.