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TiKusDom wrote:All money made during the playoffs go to the INDIVIDUAL playoff teams, you didnt even know this?!you didnt even know this?! Which makes your absurdly illogical calculation WRONG.
you managed to stay half the way. Less games played = less BRI = less money to earn, try and keep up
17% of 3 billion (the 4 weeks of games that are played) = 510,000,000.
Ponchos wrote:
Wow.. Just wow.
All money made counts in BRI calculations. It is completely irrelevant what team gets the money.
Again, do you know what BRI% is, how it is calculated and how it affects how much money players get?
Whats the BRI for the year?
17% of 3 billion (the 4 weeks of games that are played) = 510,000,000.
100% of the 1 billion from the playoffs = 1,000,000,000.
So the BRI for the year is 1,510,000,000. With a 50/50 split that means the players would get 755,000,000.
Ok great, so how much did the players actually lose? 755mil divided by 2 billion (50% of the BRI if the whole season was played) = 37.75%, so they lost out on 62.25% of total wages.
Wait a minute?!?! 20 weeks of the season were lost, and the players lose 4% a week... They should've lost 83% but they actually only lost 62.25%!!! HOW CAN THIS BE!
The problem that both sides are now facing, though, is that the longer this lockout drags on, the bigger the hit to BRI. At four percent growth (which is modest), next year’s BRI number would have been $3.96 billion, but because of lost games, that figure will be much lower. Throw in the fact that fans who are disgusted with this fight in general won’t be rushing to add to the league’s intake—they won’t buy jerseys, they won’t go to games and patronize the arenas, they won’t re-up for NBA cable packages—and BRI will take a bigger hit. The concern has to be that not only will BRI suffer this year, but it might take multiple years to get back on track.
TiKusDom wrote:Fine wrong wording
individual players and teams are rewarded additional bonuses and salaries with stipulations in their contracts if they make the playoffs. A team and player in the playoffs will make more revenue than a team that is not. Players out of the playoffs will not make the same share as players who do not.
Best Record in NBA| $288,421
Best Record in Conference| $252,369 per team
Second Best Record in Conference| $202,842 per team
Third Best Record in Conference| $151,421 per team
Fourth Best Record in Conference| $119,000 per team
Fifth Best record in Conference| $99,158 per team
Sixth Best Record in Conference| $67,632 per team
Playing in the First Round| $149,243 per team
Playing in Conference Semifinals| $177,579 per team
Playing in Conference Finals| $293,447 per team
Losing in the NBA Finals| $1,173,474 per team
Winning the NBA Finals| $1,770,947 per team
You assigned a 1 billion dollar weight to the playoffs, which is arbitrary, do you have any number to say that the NBA generates 1 billion in revenue from the playoffs?
How did you measure NBA playoff revenue? Ok I wont contest that the NBA playoffs are a major revenue source, can you verify that its actually 25 % of their total revenue or is this just a number you are pulling out of your ass?
Ok lets say its close to that. So 4 % becomes adjusted and players lose per week becomes adjusted and now they are losing 2-3% percent of their total wages instead of 4.
TiKusDom wrote:It is FACT they lost 16 % of their wages because 4 weeks of games have been canceled. What world are you living in? :S
They will still lose more money demanding 52 % and losing this sum over a month than having accepted 50 % at the start and making this money from the start. BRI is still SMALLER.
Read more: http://aol.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2 ... z1d0Rxxs8D
The lost money in direct revenue from games, and indirect revenue that this will have in the future, will not justify a 52 % split when a real calculation of total lost earnings is made. Many see this. You do not.
Ponchos wrote:
Wrong wording? Wrong universe. You tried to do a big "gotcha" to me and showed how little you understand.
Hey! You looked something up! Neat! Also completely irrelevant.
Of course it's arbitrary... But honestly I wouldn't be surprised if 25% of the NBA's revenues came from the playoffs. Arbitrary or not is irrelevant for the purposes of the illustration.
It doesn't matter that I "pulled it out of my ass" I told you I did when I said "lets assume" in the example. The mere fact they are a major revenue source is the only relevant consideration.
Finally. It took three pages to admit you were wrong about this:
It took some time to get it out of you, but I accept your apology. We can kiss and make up.
We just don't know yet. You have none of the relevant information to make that determination.
But that doesn’t mean caving now would be a poor economic choice for the players. Given the gap between the players’ current proposal and the owners’ offer, the losses suffered through cancelled games are going to outweigh the losses suffered at the negotiating table. Based on last year’s BRI, each percentage point is worth about $40 million a year. If you assume a 10-year deal, that means the difference between 51% and 52.5% BRI is roughly $600 million over the life of the deal. Since most of the players in the league now will not be around to enjoy the full 10-year term, the actual cost of caving is smaller to them. Meanwhile, the cost of holding out continues to rise. The cost of one month of cancelled games is roughly $350 million in player salary. The players have already lost November, and if December is wiped off the schedule the total salary losses will be around $100 million more than the BRI difference. If you’re pretty sure that you’re going to lose in the end, losing by a little is better than losing by a lot.
[/quote][/quote]The problem that both sides are now facing, though, is that the longer this lockout drags on, the bigger the hit to BRI. At four percent growth (which is modest), next year’s BRI number would have been $3.96 billion, but because of lost games, that figure will be much lower. Throw in the fact that fans who are disgusted with this fight in general won’t be rushing to add to the league’s intake—they won’t buy jerseys, they won’t go to games and patronize the arenas, they won’t re-up for NBA cable packages—and BRI will take a bigger hit. The concern has to be that not only will BRI suffer this year, but it might take multiple years to get back on track.
keep dreaming , the point is that playoff teams are awarded individual bonuses and cash that do not have to be shared with the rest of the league.
i can pull arbitrary numbers out of my ass all day too. making your calculation completely worthless unless you have real numbers to back them up
read the quote again, they will lose more money fighting for the 2 % than they would have made just accepting 50 /50, common logic
Players in playoffs get more money through bonuses, dont you already know this. They do make more money .Ponchos wrote:
Your point doesn't matter. The total amount paid to players league-wide is not affected, at
Blah blah, arbitrary number based on faulty calculation. Your assigned weight to the NBA playoff revenue is already baseless, already making your calculation void.No, you can't. Change the value by any amount and it still shows the exact same thing. If the value of the NBA playoffs is 10% of total revenues, then the effect is the same. If its 5%? Same thing. You're making me think you didn't understand anything.
We just don't know yet. You have none of the relevant information to make that determination.
.It's speculation. It might turn out to be right, but it is not fact. You're saying it's fact, it is not
But that doesn’t mean caving now would be a poor economic choice for the players. Given the gap between the players’ current proposal and the owners’ offer, the losses suffered through cancelled games are going to outweigh the losses suffered at the negotiating table. Based on last year’s BRI, each percentage point is worth about $40 million a year. If you assume a 10-year deal, that means the difference between 51% and 52.5% BRI is roughly $600 million over the life of the deal. Since most of the players in the league now will not be around to enjoy the full 10-year term, the actual cost of caving is smaller to them. Meanwhile, the cost of holding out continues to rise. The cost of one month of cancelled games is roughly $350 million in player salary. The players have already lost November, and if December is wiped off the schedule the total salary losses will be around $100 million more than the BRI difference. If you’re pretty sure that you’re going to lose in the end, losing by a little is better than losing by a lot.
TiKusDom wrote:Read the bold. 350 million lost salary in 1 month. 350/2 billion = 18 % lost wages.No point in arguing your inability to grasp simple concepts
TiKusDom wrote: Players in playoffs get more money through bonuses, dont you already know this. They do make more money .
Ponchos wrote:
One question, does the cancellation of the games in November mean that the games absolutely cannot be made up this year with changes to scheduling?
The answer is no.
The author of that article is operating under a key assumption which may not be correct, the assumption that games cancelled in November will not be made up in the future.
Until we know how many games are ACTUALLY lost this year, it's ALL SPECULATION. He is making calculations based off his assumption that has a very likely possibility of being wrong.
Ponchos wrote:
I do know this. It is also completely irrelevant.
What we are discussing is total payout to all players.
If Kobe wins the championship how much money do all the players get? 57% BRI.
If Kobe loses in the first round, how much money do all the players get? 57% BRI.
How that amount is divided up among individual players IS IRRELEVANT. Jesus Christ.
TiKusDom wrote:Hes operating on FACTS. 2 months of lost revenue will equate to the 600 million dollars the players would have made over the life of the CBA.
TiKusDom wrote:Ponchos wrote:
I do know this. It is also completely irrelevant.
What we are discussing is total payout to all players.
If Kobe wins the championship how much money do all the players get? 57% BRI.
If Kobe loses in the first round, how much money do all the players get? 57% BRI.
How that amount is divided up among individual players IS IRRELEVANT. Jesus Christ.
He will get his share and added bonuses for playoff appearances, players will make additional salary in the playoffs, because they are getting paid in the playoffs through bonuses while players who are out of the playoffs are not.
C_Money wrote:Who's the players union representative on the Raptors? Apparently every team has one.
Whats the BRI for the year?
17% of 3 billion (the 4 weeks of games that are played) = 510,000,000.
100% of the 1 billion from the playoffs = 1,000,000,000.
So the BRI for the year is 1,510,000,000. With a 50/50 split that means the players would get 755,000,000.
Ok great, so how much did the players actually lose? 755mil divided by 2 billion (50% of the BRI if the whole season was played) = 37.75%, so they lost out on 62.25% of total wages.
Wait a minute?!?! 20 weeks of the season were lost, and the players lose 4% a week... They should've lost 83% but they actually only lost 62.25%!!! HOW CAN THIS BE!
TiKusDom wrote:Whats the BRI for the year?
17% of 3 billion (the 4 weeks of games that are played) = 510,000,000.
100% of the 1 billion from the playoffs = 1,000,000,000.
So the BRI for the year is 1,510,000,000. With a 50/50 split that means the players would get 755,000,000.
Ok great, so how much did the players actually lose? 755mil divided by 2 billion (50% of the BRI if the whole season was played) = 37.75%, so they lost out on 62.25% of total wages.
Wait a minute?!?! 20 weeks of the season were lost, and the players lose 4% a week... They should've lost 83% but they actually only lost 62.25%!!! HOW CAN THIS BE!
your formula is wrong, and your numbers are out of realm of logic , but ill play this little game.
4 weeks , or a month played out of 6, ok 15 % of games are played. and they generate .15 x 3 billion ( hypothetical yearly NBA regular season revenue ) = 450,000 revenue for those 4 weeks. Improbable considering fan interest probably died off by this point but sure lets play with the numbers. Now these magical playoffs will generate 1 billion, a very large number considering by now casual fans dont give a rats ass about the NBA, and revenues would not be that high. Your scenario is completely unrealistic.
In what world , in any real world, would playoffs generate such massive revenue from only a 4 week season? Realism ? Ok lets be more realistic , we will say playoffs after a 4 week season generated 600 million . 50 50 split gives us 300 million toward players. In total we have 225+300 million = 525 million dollars for players. out of a potential 2 billion (50% of the BRI if the whole season was played, the same number you used). That's 26 %. Which is equivalent to about 74 % lost wages , not too far off from 83 % and far ahead of your estimated 62 %.See i can pull numbers out of my ass too, and make numbers work in my favor as well.
Ponchos wrote:
No, they don't work in your favor.
You stated it was a fact that players lost 4% salary per week. You stated that they already lost 16% wages. In your example you just demonstrated how a loss of 4% a week is NOT A FACT. There are a lot of variables at play and you are somewhat beginning to grasp that.
It is not a fact, you just proved yourself wrong. Congratulations.
I'm off to bed for now.
You are just running circles around yourself, your make believe accounting doesnt do anything .But that doesn’t mean caving now would be a poor economic choice for the players. Given the gap between the players’ current proposal and the owners’ offer, the losses suffered through cancelled games are going to outweigh the losses suffered at the negotiating table. Based on last year’s BRI, each percentage point is worth about $40 million a year. If you assume a 10-year deal, that means the difference between 51% and 52.5% BRI is roughly $600 million over the life of the deal. Since most of the players in the league now will not be around to enjoy the full 10-year term, the actual cost of caving is smaller to them. Meanwhile, the cost of holding out continues to rise. The cost of one month of cancelled games is roughly $350 million in player salary. The players have already lost November, and if December is wiped off the schedule the total salary losses will be around $100 million more than the BRI difference. If you’re pretty sure that you’re going to lose in the end, losing by a little is better than losing by a lot.
TiKusDom wrote:Indeed wrote:Ponchos wrote:
There's just so many things factually incorrect with what you wrote I don't know where to begin...
I agree, and why not think from the owner perspective on how much they lost as well.
4% lost wages per week. math is not your friend.
