Should Bryan Colangelo be Fired

[Beardman]

Feels like this fits in the thread

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/basketball/opi ... fired.html

Articles like that are like chewing broken glass.

I think. Not a whole lot of experience chewing broken glass, I must admit. But it seems like it would resemble reading articles like that.

It's pretty spot on.

[Harry Palmer]

Feels like this fits in the thread

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/basketball/opi ... fired.html

Articles like that are like chewing broken glass.

I think. Not a whole lot of experience chewing broken glass, I must admit. But it seems like it would resemble reading articles like that.

It's pretty spot on.

Lol, yes. Yes it is.

I won't go into details because, unless you are someone who argued with me at the time and would now prefer to pretend it didn't happen, if you know me you know it, and if you don't you won't believe it, but I've been making exactly those arguments since BC's first off-season, with the exception of number 3, which imo is contradictory to the others. And even aside from the years of abuse I took here for saying it, watching the thing unfold when you can see it coming is actually more painful than when it hits you as a surprise.

I was a life long basketball fan. I mean hard core. BC's tenure has actually served to diminish my enjoyment in a way I'd never have thought possible. I hope it will revive when he goes.

[Tacoma]

The problem with BC is that he gets too attached to all his players. He's a players' GM. ...

He's gets too attached to his players??? Let see...

Ford: 2 years, 56 games played
Delfino: 1 year, 82 games
O'Neal: 1 year, 41 games
Marion: 1 year 27 games
Moon: 1.5 years, 132 games
Kapono: 2 years, 161 games
Rasho: 2 years, 151 games
Hedo: 1 year, 74 games
Bayless: 1.5 years, 91 games
Johnson: 1.5 years 87 games

And I'm sure I'm missing a few. It was like a revolving door with a different starting lineup in each non-tanking year. There's no sign whatsoever he got attached to any player beyond Bargnani.

On the contrary, players were being shuffled in and out so fast, you'd think he got a sales commission with each trade. After all, we know he's a good salesman to be able to sell to the public the crap he puts out each season.

[Beardman]

Lol, yes. Yes it is.

I won't go into details because, unless you are someone who argued with me at the time and would now prefer to pretend it didn't happen, if you know me you know it, and if you don't you won't believe it, but I've been making exactly those arguments since BC's first off-season, with the exception of number 3, which imo is contradictory to the others. And even aside from the years of abuse I took here for saying it, watching the thing unfold when you can see it coming is actually more painful than when it hits you as a surprise.

I was a life long basketball fan. I mean hard core. BC's tenure has actually served to diminish my enjoyment in a way I'd never have thought possible. I hope it will revive when he goes.

I can only imagine.

And yeah number 3 is iffy. We've had veteran presence throughout the years, but not quite enough at one given time. Marion, Rasho, JO, Garbajosa, Reggie etc..

[Duffman100]

Feels like this fits in the thread

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/basketball/opi ... fired.html

Nice article you wrote

It's amazing to me though that nobody in the media is calling for Colangelo's head. Listening to
PTS today they had Jack on and Bobcat was roasting Bargs and said he has to go and Jack
was like "It's getting to that point" it's like are you serious Jack it's way beyond that point. They
also talked about Caseys job security but not once did they even mention about Colangelo getting
fired.

Most of the media seems to be in some kind of trance that Colangelo has them in with his Car Salesman
charm it's unbelievable.

Yeah, it's baffling to me as well. Either a) they're not allowed to say anything due to their position b) they willing to give him one more 'cycle'.

I just can't get on board with his philosophy, which is why one more cycle (ala this concoction) isn't going to work.

[Lawnmower Man]

Articles like that are like chewing broken glass.

I think. Not a whole lot of experience chewing broken glass, I must admit. But it seems like it would resemble reading articles like that.

It's pretty spot on.

Lol, yes. Yes it is.

I won't go into details because, unless you are someone who argued with me at the time and would now prefer to pretend it didn't happen, if you know me you know it, and if you don't you won't believe it, but I've been making exactly those arguments since BC's first off-season, with the exception of number 3, which imo is contradictory to the others. And even aside from the years of abuse I took here for saying it, watching the thing unfold when you can see it coming is actually more painful than when it hits you as a surprise.

I was a life long basketball fan. I mean hard core. BC's tenure has actually served to diminish my enjoyment in a way I'd never have thought possible. I hope it will revive when he goes.

I joined this forum in '06, right about the time when BC was hired.

I remember you, and yes, many here do too but they will pretend they don't.

I wasn't a fan of the Bargnani pick. I was pro-Rudy Gay for the first pick and was stunned that he fell to 8th. I remember back then, RealGM was actually blocking the word "Gay" so nobody could even write Rudy Gay, lol.

Anyway, I thought I was wrong after BC's first season and I thought we had a very bright future after that third place conference finish when we had Bosh, Bargnani, and Ford as a young core. It took me about a year after that to lose faith in Bargnani, and about two years later I thought we were toast and had to do another rebuild. I can't believe it's been another FULL three years after that point and we STILL haven't started a rebuild.

It's nuts that teams like Orlando and New Orleans (who were always better than us these past 5-6 years but had to blow their teams us due to their stars leaving), are going to be worse than us for maybe a year or two during their respective rebuilds, and bounce back and be ahead of us again for the next 5-10 years with a new core of younger and more talented players than us.

[raptorforlife88]

Stolen from the meme thread. But I think this summarizes things. A record of failure.

[Randle McMurphy]

I won't go into details because, unless you are someone who argued with me at the time and would now prefer to pretend it didn't happen, if you know me you know it, and if you don't you won't believe it, but I've been making exactly those arguments since BC's first off-season, with the exception of number 3, which imo is contradictory to the others. And even aside from the years of abuse I took here for saying it, watching the thing unfold when you can see it coming is actually more painful than when it hits you as a surprise.

You should consider yourself lucky. At least you were allowed to express your dissenting opinion about BC here. Many, including myself, weren't allowed. It was simply that level of groupthink for several years.

I was a life long basketball fan. I mean hard core. BC's tenure has actually served to diminish my enjoyment in a way I'd never have thought possible. I hope it will revive when he goes.

Oh, I'm still a huge basketball fan and watch a ton of NBA/NCAA games. I just don't watch the Raptors regularly anymore.

[Harry Palmer]

You should consider yourself lucky. At least you were allowed to express your dissenting opinion about BC here. Many, including myself, weren't allowed. It was simply that level of groupthink for several years.

I was?

Can you expand on the thought?

Oh, I'm still a huge basketball fan and watch a ton of NBA/NCAA games. I just don't watch the Raptors regularly anymore.

I wish I could say the same. I was a Rockets/Jayhawks fan before the Raps ever existed, and again, hard core. Like walking from one town to another to watch a Jayhawks tourney game at my grandmother's because we didn't have cable, and getting into trouble for walking around after dark as a little kid in the process. My dad and I going to HS tournaments in Syracuse, my (can't remember which...little kid) birthday present being my Dad taking me to see the Rockets play the Piston in a Hamilton pre-season game, etc.

Really hard core. And as you'll remember, spending time coming up with strategies for the Raps to build a winner, etc. But a combination of the groupthink you mention in here and the sheer angst of being a Raps fan under BC/Babs has really taken a toll. Still watch NBA games and even some Raps games, but the overall joy I got in the past has been on hold for a while. Thank god the Niners have become something to get excited about. The least predictable result has been how much interest I've lost in college games.

Used to watch them for the game itself...over time that evolved into scouting them for Raps prospects...and years of mediocrity and a refusla to rebuild undermined that enjoyment/hope, so somehow, and it's weird I admit, the Raps have lessened my interest in college ball. I just find the entire thing too painful, because getting invested again seems too pointless.

My hopes are slightly reviving with the pressure on BC right now. but my experience tells me not to hold my breath; some winning, no matter how significant, will blow a lot of this away.

If you'll recall, I was among those who knew BC's 'rebuild' would be a short-lived myth, and so many here were pre-apologizing under the conditions of 'as long as we don't trade our draft pick' this past year that I kinda came back to read after the Lowry trade in the hope that people would finally have had enough when he did the predicted, but saw that even that was excused, so I gave up. The US election brought me back here as a reader, and I was surprised to see the level of BC frustration, so am currently, depsite myself, becoming a little interested again.

[tecumseh18]

You should consider yourself lucky. At least you were allowed to express your dissenting opinion about BC here. Many, including myself, weren't allowed. It was simply that level of groupthink for several years.

I was?

Can you expand on the thought?

I think he's referring to the fact that a "former" poster named Mustard Tiger, who took glee in savaging the team generally and the idea of building around Bosh and Bargnani in particular, was waived for his single-mindedness. You weren't.

[sunsetcrash]

I was a life long basketball fan. I mean hard core. BC's tenure has actually served to diminish my enjoyment in a way I'd never have thought possible. I hope it will revive when he goes.

but can you play tho lol

[Alfred]

Well, I suppose the cat is out of the bag.

[Scase]

You should consider yourself lucky. At least you were allowed to express your dissenting opinion about BC here. Many, including myself, weren't allowed. It was simply that level of groupthink for several years.

I was?

Can you expand on the thought?

I think he's referring to the fact that a "former" poster named Mustard Tiger, who took glee in savaging the team generally and the idea of building around Bosh and Bargnani in particular, was waived for his single-mindedness. You weren't.

HP get's the star calls, MT was a bench player.

[Harry Palmer]

You should consider yourself lucky. At least you were allowed to express your dissenting opinion about BC here. Many, including myself, weren't allowed. It was simply that level of groupthink for several years.

I was?

Can you expand on the thought?

I think he's referring to the fact that a "former" poster named Mustard Tiger, who took glee in savaging the team generally and the idea of building around Bosh and Bargnani in particular, was waived for his single-mindedness. You weren't.

Okay. Without getting into specifics, and agreeing that I was never banned or suspended, allow me to suggest that a lot more went on behind the scenes than many here are aware of.

[Black Milk]

Sh*t really has hit the fan and Bargnani's performance this season have made sure that the fan is going at warp speed. Regardless most of the afore mentioned **** has found its way to BC's face. Question is how long can the MLSE stand the stench before they send a clean up crew.

Side note: HP is back!!

[Los Manos]

I'm still on the fence but I'm leaning towards the the 'blow it up' option for the first time.

And it's really not so much related to performance this year. It really comes down to us finally having a legitimate star player in the making with all the intangibles you'd ever want in Valanciunas. The goal has to be to pair him with another young potential star on the wings and build around them. It's also becoming clearer and clearer that the talent on our roster is just not good enough to package into that star. I think BC had the opportunity this summer and clearly tried, making no bones of him being in the market to the media. No Steve Nash, I could live with that but if you're still going to go ahead and mortgage the 're-build' on trading away a protected lottery pick for Kyle Lowry (a move I liked and thought had good value) then you HAVE to get a deal together for that extra piece you'd been trying to acquire for months.

I'm high on stability in sports management though, both front office and coaching staff. I just hope someone on the board or front office sees that to go forward allowing BC to make another 'big trade' in-season for a major piece after clearly striking out already on options A, B & C this summer would be against the teams long term interest. This squad isn't going to be fixed by one player who will more than likely be either over 30 or injury prone to the point where any early positives get wiped out quickly when the band-aid starts to come off.

If BC doesn't see this right now then I want him gone. I'm willing to back him to see through a proper re-build if he makes the right call now. You build around Valanciunas and plan actions moving forward to find him a fellow star. You sell off the assets you have for draft picks in 2014. If I was on the board, that would be my one and only option for BC - we'll extend your contract for 3 years but you're going after Wiggins and it starts right now. If he says no then you have no option and it's time to part ways and find a GM who will steer this towards June 2014. There is value in the stability of BC and in Casey moving forward but if they want to stay here they need to realise that success is not coming tomorrow or next year. If they are prepared to be patient, sell off assets and gamble in 2014 then they have as good a shot of success as anything they are likely to achieve in that timespan with the current roster.


It's a horrible, naive feeling that I still have some faith that BC can make the right decision but I guess I do. That's why it's gonna hurt even harder when we throw everything we've got to go after an overpaid, low-impact player who will only proceed to take us back to our 'might make it to the playoffs' status and not a whole lot further. I'm just hoping for the sake of my fanaticism that someone at MLSE see's the bigger picture right now too.

[Randle McMurphy]

Well, I hope Colangelo didn't totally suck the basketball life out of you before that Jayhawks national championship win in 2008 (although they didn't do too bad last year either).

If the losses continue (and they will, this team that BC has built isn't good), he may just be finally getting toward the end of his rope with this organization.

[hillbilly hare]

I'm still on the fence but I'm leaning towards the the 'blow it up' option for the first time.

And it's really not so much related to performance this year. It really comes down to us finally having a legitimate star player in the making with all the intangibles you'd ever want in Valanciunas. The goal has to be to pair him with another young potential star on the wings and build around them. It's also becoming clearer and clearer that the talent on our roster is just not good enough to package into that star. I think BC had the opportunity this summer and clearly tried, making no bones of him being in the market to the media. No Steve Nash, I could live with that but if you're still going to go ahead and mortgage the 're-build' on trading away a protected lottery pick for Kyle Lowry (a move I liked and thought had good value) then you HAVE to get a deal together for that extra piece you'd been trying to acquire for months.

I'm high on stability in sports management though, both front office and coaching staff. I just hope someone on the board or front office sees that to go forward allowing BC to make another 'big trade' in-season for a major piece after clearly striking out already on options A, B & C this summer would be against the teams long term interest. This squad isn't going to be fixed by one player who will more than likely be either over 30 or injury prone to the point where any early positives get wiped out quickly when the band-aid starts to come off.

If BC doesn't see this right now then I want him gone. I'm willing to back him to see through a proper re-build if he makes the right call now. You build around Valanciunas and plan actions moving forward to find him a fellow star. You sell off the assets you have for draft picks in 2014. If I was on the board, that would be my one and only option for BC - we'll extend your contract for 3 years but you're going after Wiggins and it starts right now. If he says no then you have no option and it's time to part ways and find a GM who will steer this towards June 2014. There is value in the stability of BC and in Casey moving forward but if they want to stay here they need to realise that success is not coming tomorrow or next year. If they are prepared to be patient, sell off assets and gamble in 2014 then they have as good a shot of success as anything they are likely to achieve in that timespan with the current roster.


It's a horrible, naive feeling that I still have some faith that BC can make the right decision but I guess I do. That's why it's gonna hurt even harder when we throw everything we've got to go after an overpaid, low-impact player who will only proceed to take us back to our 'might make it to the playoffs' status and not a whole lot further. I'm just hoping for the sake of my fanaticism that someone at MLSE see's the bigger picture right now too.

To talk about backing Clownangelo NOW "to do a proper rebuild" is absolutely incredible.

Is that some cruel joke? Once again he makes off-season moves that are intended to make us a win-now team, then when those moves prove to be a failure - and pretty quickly in this case - then he's off the hook for those terrible moves if he agrees to do a rebuild?

Pause to shake my head.

The guy has absolutely blown it. A wasted off-season with so much potential. The funny thing is that we actually could have gone one of two ways this off-season: win-now OR rebuild! We had the assets to try to build a win-now team: lottery pick, massive cap room (including amnestying Jose, if needed), tradable assets (including future picks), TPE. When Drummond fell to us at 8, though, we could've also gone the rebuild route with an outstanding prospect at an elite position. Or we could've drafted Drummond as a trade asset, which as things turned out would've been pretty valuable in any win-now type trade.

But now we have a whole lotta mediocrity, as is Clownangelo's wont. We have one above-average player in Lowry, who came at considerable cost: not only a lottery pick, but also ties our hands in trades as we can't offer future picks. Jonas is a very good prospect at an elite position. That's it. The rest of the roster is made up of bench players and mediocre or below-average starters.

Demar mediocre? Yes, overall. He's "putting up big numbers", but he's doing it inefficiently, as usual. He's also below-average defensively. Overall a slightly below-average NBA starter.

No need to even say why Andrea is below-average, or Fields, or McGuire, or Kleiza, or Amir, and so on. Jose is an above-average backup PG, paid like a starter; but with his D he's probably at best an average starter.

Setting aside all Clownangelo's past blunders and keeping this team mired in the muck at the bottom of the barrel for the last several years, this off-season alone should be enough to get him fired tomorrow morning.

[Too Late Crew]

To talk about backing Clownangelo NOW "to do a proper rebuild" is absolutely incredible.

Is that some cruel joke? Once again he makes off-season moves that are intended to make us a win-now team, then when those moves prove to be a failure - and pretty quickly in this case - then he's off the hook for those terrible moves if he agrees to do a rebuild?

Pause to shake my head.

The guy has absolutely blown it. A wasted off-season with so much potential. The funny thing is that we actually could have gone one of two ways this off-season: win-now OR rebuild! We had the assets to try to build a win-now team: lottery pick, massive cap room (including amnestying Jose, if needed), tradable assets (including future picks), TPE. When Drummond fell to us at 8, though, we could've also gone the rebuild route with an outstanding prospect at an elite position. Or we could've drafted Drummond as a trade asset, which as things turned out would've been pretty valuable in any win-now type trade.

But now we have a whole lotta mediocrity, as is Clownangelo's wont. We have one above-average player in Lowry, who came at considerable cost: not only a lottery pick, but also ties our hands in trades as we can't offer future picks. Jonas is a very good prospect at an elite position. That's it. The rest of the roster is made up of bench players and mediocre or below-average starters.

Demar mediocre? Yes, overall. He's "putting up big numbers", but he's doing it inefficiently, as usual. He's also below-average defensively. Overall a slightly below-average NBA starter.

No need to even say why Andrea is below-average, or Fields, or McGuire, or Kleiza, or Amir, and so on. Jose is an above-average backup PG, paid like a starter; but with his D he's probably at best an average starter.

Setting aside all Clownangelo's past blunders and keeping this team mired in the muck at the bottom of the barrel for the last several years, this off-season alone should be enough to get him fired tomorrow morning.

I agree 100% with what you have said..but I could probably sum up the entire reasons for BCs failure in 2 words.

FENCE SITTER

He sat on the fence with Bosh and Bargs knowing they didn't fit but refusing to pick one over the other.
He sits on the fence between rebuilding and getting Steve Nash.

He wants to play it off like he's got options or his oft promoted "flexibility" but the truth is that he doesn't fully commit to a course of action and half azzed decisions give you half azzed results.

[J-Roc]

So Daryl Morey whips together this roster and already he's got something way better than Bryan Colangelo.

Folks, the man needs to be fired.