Former Raptor discussion thread 3.0

[Blazing_royale]

sucks to see OG leave the team. I thought him/scottie could be something

[Los_29]

sucks to see OG leave the team. I thought him/scottie could be something

OG is such a nice piece on a contending team. But given Scottie’s limitations and lack of progression, I don’t think OG would’ve been a good fit long-term. He’s also wildly overpaid.

[Los_29]

Norm was the better player I said it when the trade happened, the chemistry was the icing on the cake but it was a stupid trade just based on talent and the fact that they got paid to same amount of money… if they were gonna pay someone the exact same dollar amount, it made no sense to make that trade…

It makes complete sense to trade a player for a guy 6 years his junior who was looking like was on an upward trajectory.

It’s a trade you make 100/100 times.

An upward trajectory of what?

See this is the problem with these arguments… is when I make a statement at the time saying it’s obvious to me that Trent will never even be as good as Powell you say, there’s no way you can make that statement… and then in hindsight when it ends up that way you say, well at the time it looked like the potential was there…

either way apparently there’s no acceptance about my player evaluation. This is exactly what the front office gets paid to do is make projections and make decisions based on said projections. Trent did not have the talent of powell and his potential was never even higher than Powell. His upward trajectory would never have allowed him to reach Powell level because of his limited skillset. It was obvious at th time of the trade. Don’t attack my player evaluations and then argue with me in hindsight when I end up being right. I’m not even someone that criticizes the front office every move in a blanket statement or act like they should be fired because of it.

GTJ had a more impactful year in 2021-22 than Norm. He was a starter on a team that won 48 games and he finished in the top 5 in steals and deflections.

GTJ and Norm both had very similar flaws and Norm, despite his efficiency never seemed to make much of an impact on winning. In fact, prior to last year, his teams have always played better with him on the bench.

Much of this fan base wanted to get rid of Norm for 2nd round picks. That tells you how much they valued him in Tampa. Portland shipped him off not even a year later for scraps.

Norm is a good player but he has flaws and it was time to move on from him.

[WaltFrazier]

Read on Twitter

[PushDaRock]

Trent was just 22 and was shooting 40% from three on 3 makes a game. It wasn't insane at the time to think he had a lot of upside left.

Except if you actually understood his skillset especially relative to Powell you would see he didn’t have that much upside.

In hindsight everything looks obvious, Norm having a career year at 32 probably wasn't on anyone's bingo card. How did Norm look himself in year 3 at 24 years old? Was it predictable he would turn himself into a 40% 3 point shooter?

[YogurtProducer]

Trent was just 22 and was shooting 40% from three on 3 makes a game. It wasn't insane at the time to think he had a lot of upside left.

Except if you actually understood his skillset especially relative to Powell you would see he didn’t have that much upside.

In hindsight everything looks obvious, Norm having a career year at 32 probably wasn't on anyone's bingo card. How did Norm look himself in year 3 at 24 years old? Was it predictable he would turn himself into a 40% 3 point shooter?

Of course not.

Boogie seems to think he’s the end all be all of player evaluation for some reason. Typically he is quite negative on players however, and the reality is that generally players “disappoint”.

It’s like waking up and predicting it’s going to be cold in February and then bragging when you’re right.

[youngRAPZ]

Except if you actually understood his skillset especially relative to Powell you would see he didn’t have that much upside.

In hindsight everything looks obvious, Norm having a career year at 32 probably wasn't on anyone's bingo card. How did Norm look himself in year 3 at 24 years old? Was it predictable he would turn himself into a 40% 3 point shooter?

Of course not.

Boogie seems to think he’s the end all be all of player evaluation for some reason. Typically he is quite negative on players however, and the reality is that generally players “disappoint”.

It’s like waking up and predicting it’s going to be cold in February and then bragging when you’re right.

I wonder what his comments were when Trent had that 5 game 30 piece stretch during the Tampa tank

[Los_29]

Except if you actually understood his skillset especially relative to Powell you would see he didn’t have that much upside.

In hindsight everything looks obvious, Norm having a career year at 32 probably wasn't on anyone's bingo card. How did Norm look himself in year 3 at 24 years old? Was it predictable he would turn himself into a 40% 3 point shooter?

Of course not.

Boogie seems to think he’s the end all be all of player evaluation for some reason. Typically he is quite negative on players however, and the reality is that generally players “disappoint”.

It’s like waking up and predicting it’s going to be cold in February and then bragging when you’re right.

I think this is what I don’t get. I’d understand if he’s had a good track record but if you go through his posting history, his ability to evaluate players has been downright bad. This is someone who believed that Delon Wright was better than Fred.

[Tripod]

In hindsight everything looks obvious, Norm having a career year at 32 probably wasn't on anyone's bingo card. How did Norm look himself in year 3 at 24 years old? Was it predictable he would turn himself into a 40% 3 point shooter?

Of course not.

Boogie seems to think he’s the end all be all of player evaluation for some reason. Typically he is quite negative on players however, and the reality is that generally players “disappoint”.

It’s like waking up and predicting it’s going to be cold in February and then bragging when you’re right.

I think this is what I don’t get. I’d understand if he’s had a good track record but if you go through his posting history, his ability to evaluate players has been downright bad. This is someone who believed that Delon Wright was better than Fred.

He has claimed that was his only mistake.

I wonder, did he predict Barnes winning ROTY and being an All Star in year 3? So was he wrong there?

[YogurtProducer]

Of course not.

Boogie seems to think he’s the end all be all of player evaluation for some reason. Typically he is quite negative on players however, and the reality is that generally players “disappoint”.

It’s like waking up and predicting it’s going to be cold in February and then bragging when you’re right.

I think this is what I don’t get. I’d understand if he’s had a good track record but if you go through his posting history, his ability to evaluate players has been downright bad. This is someone who believed that Delon Wright was better than Fred.

He has claimed that was his only mistake.

I wonder, did he predict Barnes winning ROTY and being an All Star in year 3? So was he wrong there?

It is straight insanity to suggest your only mistake in a decade + is saying Delon>Fred is just **** crazy.

[Boogie!]

Except if you actually understood his skillset especially relative to Powell you would see he didn’t have that much upside.

In hindsight everything looks obvious, Norm having a career year at 32 probably wasn't on anyone's bingo card. How did Norm look himself in year 3 at 24 years old? Was it predictable he would turn himself into a 40% 3 point shooter?

Of course not.

Boogie seems to think he’s the end all be all of player evaluation for some reason. Typically he is quite negative on players however, and the reality is that generally players “disappoint”.

It’s like waking up and predicting it’s going to be cold in February and then bragging when you’re right.

Except when I am positive on players like Powell, who a lot of people criticized and I’ve defended ad nauseum, again somehow that doesn’t count as positivity to you or an example of a positive assessment or foresight on player evaluation. You like to ignore all the times I defend certain players, Lowry, jv, delon, boucher, Powell, siakam, Barrett etc but then make it a big deal when I do criticize players, fvv, demar, Barnes, etc…

So again somehow I’m negative all the time but you refuse to see the positives and how adamant I am when I actually support players who YOU and other posters don’t like. don’t sit here and act like you’re some unbiased observer when you can’t even give credence to my assessment in hindsight. This shows again that you don’t objectively care about basketball analysis, just like with most argument with me, you just want to make sure that I specifically get put in my place. Can’t even give me credit for being positive when that version of positive doesn’t agree wirh your assessment on what players are worth standing up for. You’re fake and a hypocrite if you’re entire argument is that I’m negative all the time.

[Boogie!]

Of course not.

Boogie seems to think he’s the end all be all of player evaluation for some reason. Typically he is quite negative on players however, and the reality is that generally players “disappoint”.

It’s like waking up and predicting it’s going to be cold in February and then bragging when you’re right.

I think this is what I don’t get. I’d understand if he’s had a good track record but if you go through his posting history, his ability to evaluate players has been downright bad. This is someone who believed that Delon Wright was better than Fred.

He has claimed that was his only mistake.

I wonder, did he predict Barnes winning ROTY and being an All Star in year 3? So was he wrong there?

Do me a favour and actually look at my Barnes comments during his rookie year. This is how I know you are full of **** and like I said I stand by my arrogance when discussing things with you. It is obvious that even when I am right about things you will not accept it. Again that shows a bias on YOUR end… if you actually wanted to talk basketball, you would see how obvious the things I say are when I say someone is good or not depending on particular reasons.

Your argument comes down to detailed prediction and it’s stupid. I’m not saying I’m Nostradamus. I can’t tell you the winning lottery numbers. What I can tell you is when I watch someone play, I can make an evaluation on what their potential is based on their skillset. So if you asked me if Norman Powell was gonna be this good at 32 I couldn’t tell you. What I could and did tell you and everyone else was that his combination of athleticism, length, finishing ability and improved /improving jumper, shows more potential at any age, than a guy that literally gets his entire offense from shooting jump shots and has no athleticism handle or finishing ability to speak of. Truthfully if that argument doesn’t make sense to you, again you suck at player evaluation which is why I keep repeating it over and over again.

[Tripod]

Figjam

[YogurtProducer]

I think this is what I don’t get. I’d understand if he’s had a good track record but if you go through his posting history, his ability to evaluate players has been downright bad. This is someone who believed that Delon Wright was better than Fred.

He has claimed that was his only mistake.

I wonder, did he predict Barnes winning ROTY and being an All Star in year 3? So was he wrong there?

Do me a favour and actually look at my Barnes comments during his rookie year. This is how I know you are full of **** and like I said I stand by my arrogance when discussing things with you. It is obvious that even when I am right about things you will not accept it. Again that shows a bias on YOUR end… if you actually wanted to talk basketball, you would see how obvious the things I say are when I say someone is good or not depending on particular reasons.

Your argument comes down to detailed prediction and it’s stupid. I’m not saying I’m Nostradamus. I can’t tell you the winning lottery numbers. What I can tell you is when I watch someone play, I can make an evaluation on what their potential is based on their skillset. So if you asked me if Norman Powell was gonna be this good at 32 I couldn’t tell you. What I could and did tell you and everyone else was that his combination of athleticism, length, finishing ability and improved /improving jumper, shows more potential at any age, than a guy that literally gets his entire offense from shooting jump shots and has no athleticism handle or finishing ability to speak of. Truthfully if that argument doesn’t make sense to you, again you suck at player evaluation which is why I keep repeating it over and over again.

You would get a lot further if you just got rid of the arrogance you carry yourself with.

teams passed on Norm 45 times, but you are right, YOU knew all along.

[YogurtProducer]

I think this is what I don’t get. I’d understand if he’s had a good track record but if you go through his posting history, his ability to evaluate players has been downright bad. This is someone who believed that Delon Wright was better than Fred.

He has claimed that was his only mistake.

I wonder, did he predict Barnes winning ROTY and being an All Star in year 3? So was he wrong there?

Do me a favour and actually look at my Barnes comments during his rookie year. This is how I know you are full of **** and like I said I stand by my arrogance when discussing things with you. It is obvious that even when I am right about things you will not accept it. Again that shows a bias on YOUR end… if you actually wanted to talk basketball, you would see how obvious the things I say are when I say someone is good or not depending on particular reasons.

Your argument comes down to detailed prediction and it’s stupid. I’m not saying I’m Nostradamus. I can’t tell you the winning lottery numbers. What I can tell you is when I watch someone play, I can make an evaluation on what their potential is based on their skillset. So if you asked me if Norman Powell was gonna be this good at 32 I couldn’t tell you. What I could and did tell you and everyone else was that his combination of athleticism, length, finishing ability and improved /improving jumper, shows more potential at any age, than a guy that literally gets his entire offense from shooting jump shots and has no athleticism handle or finishing ability to speak of. Truthfully if that argument doesn’t make sense to you, again you suck at player evaluation which is why I keep repeating it over and over again.

Boogie, June 25th 2015:

with the addition of these non shooting, defense first guards, we still have no guys that can score or shoot efficiently…

Wow, you are so great at player evaluation and use Norm as your prime example yet you got his profile ENTIRELY WRONG on draft night. Come on dude, give it rest. In fact, you are in that thread complaining about the direction of the franchise (shockingly) less than 3 years before we won a ring with that core. Ready to admit you are not so smart?

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1395031&start=220

Also, you saying this in that thread is pure comedy

people need to learn to make arguments without ad hominem attacks… if you ended your post after the justise winslow thing, that would've been cool… what you wrote after that makes you condescending… in arguments people disagree and therefore both sides are defending their arguments…

[Los_29]

I think this is what I don’t get. I’d understand if he’s had a good track record but if you go through his posting history, his ability to evaluate players has been downright bad. This is someone who believed that Delon Wright was better than Fred.

He has claimed that was his only mistake.

I wonder, did he predict Barnes winning ROTY and being an All Star in year 3? So was he wrong there?

Do me a favour and actually look at my Barnes comments during his rookie year. This is how I know you are full of **** and like I said I stand by my arrogance when discussing things with you. It is obvious that even when I am right about things you will not accept it. Again that shows a bias on YOUR end… if you actually wanted to talk basketball, you would see how obvious the things I say are when I say someone is good or not depending on particular reasons.

Your argument comes down to detailed prediction and it’s stupid. I’m not saying I’m Nostradamus. I can’t tell you the winning lottery numbers. What I can tell you is when I watch someone play, I can make an evaluation on what their potential is based on their skillset. So if you asked me if Norman Powell was gonna be this good at 32 I couldn’t tell you. What I could and did tell you and everyone else was that his combination of athleticism, length, finishing ability and improved /improving jumper, shows more potential at any age, than a guy that literally gets his entire offense from shooting jump shots and has no athleticism handle or finishing ability to speak of. Truthfully if that argument doesn’t make sense to you, again you suck at player evaluation which is why I keep repeating it over and over again.

Boogie, you need to start being objective and removing any emotions and feelings that you may have. Your post history is riddled with outrageous takes that have aged so poorly and yet you seem to ignore all of these and pretend they don’t exist.

We have all been wrong, some a lot more than others. There is no shame in being wrong. The sooner you can accept that, the better.

[bballsparkin]

Boogie, you need to start being objective and removing any emotions and feelings that you may have. Your post history is riddled with outrageous takes that have aged so poorly and yet you seem to ignore all of these and pretend they don’t exist.

We have all been wrong, some a lot more than others. There is no shame in being wrong. The sooner you can accept that, the better.

I am laughing at the ironing.

[Los_29]

Boogie, you need to start being objective and removing any emotions and feelings that you may have. Your post history is riddled with outrageous takes that have aged so poorly and yet you seem to ignore all of these and pretend they don’t exist.

We have all been wrong, some a lot more than others. There is no shame in being wrong. The sooner you can accept that, the better.

I am laughing at the ironing.

You’re another good example. There are some wild takes just in your last 50 posts.

And is ironing some kind of joke on this forum? Or was it just a hilarious typo?

[Tripod]

Boogie, you need to start being objective and removing any emotions and feelings that you may have. Your post history is riddled with outrageous takes that have aged so poorly and yet you seem to ignore all of these and pretend they don’t exist.

We have all been wrong, some a lot more than others. There is no shame in being wrong. The sooner you can accept that, the better.

I am laughing at the ironing.

You’re another good example. There are some wild takes just in your last 50 posts.

And is ironing some kind of joke on this forum? Or was it just a hilarious typo?

Don't press your luck, he might let off some steam.

-dad jokes

[EastonEddy]

Wow people still care about old man Norm at 32? Pascal was practically run out of town at age 29 lol

My primary memory of Powell is how dumb a player he was. He must have lead the league in fouling three point shooters. Amazing he's still around.