2024-25 Season: Draft, Trades, and FA Ideas Thread V1.0

[mihaic]

Quick, dick, Roden, Lawson to Orlando for goga, Cole Anthony, Jett Howard, black

Works in the trade checker. Deal?

Neither team does it. Too much turnover for a lateral step.

[mihaic]

Would you guys package RJ + Dick for a pick in the 9-13 range? Use the second pick to grab a Malauch potentially. I don't know if we can get another pick in this draft but I'd love to see it!

No.

People really underrate a 24 year old 21 pt scorer

More likely overrate. There were 44 players who averaged 21+ PPG this year. 10 years ago there were 20. Scoring inflation is way up.

Scoring 21 PPG on below average efficiency is nowhere near as impressive as it used to be. There is definitely a “scoring because someone has to score on a bad team” factor when considering what RJ’s output would actually be on a good team.

Kobe's ts% was 58% for the career. RJ last year 57.7%. Does that mean anything.

[Tripod]

Would you guys package RJ + Dick for a pick in the 9-13 range? Use the second pick to grab a Malauch potentially. I don't know if we can get another pick in this draft but I'd love to see it!

With that pick, we can select a guy who, in 3 or 4 years, could be as good as RJ.

Last 4 draft years, here are the guys with a higher PPG than RJ this year.

Wemby- 1st overall
Banchero- 1st overall
Williams- 12th overall
Cade- 1st overall
Franz- 8th overall

That's it.

So 4 drafts...5 guys had a higher PPG this year. So yeah it's crazy to think a pock at 9-13 will just magically replace RJ's production in the first 4 years. And we are adding Gradey too?

This is a perfect example of underrating what you have and overrating the mystery box.

[ConSarnit]

No.

People really underrate a 24 year old 21 pt scorer

More likely overrate. There were 44 players who averaged 21+ PPG this year. 10 years ago there were 20. Scoring inflation is way up.

Scoring 21 PPG on below average efficiency is nowhere near as impressive as it used to be. There is definitely a “scoring because someone has to score on a bad team” factor when considering what RJ’s output would actually be on a good team.

Kobe's ts% was 58% for the career. RJ last year 57.7%. Does that mean anything.

Not really.

Kobe’s career TS% was 55%. His last season was 2016. Kobe was scoring at much greater volume and was doing so at above average efficiency compared to the rest of the league.

League average efficiency is way up since Kobe’s prime years. RJ, in his best scoring season, did so at league average efficiency. Scoring is also way up. 10 years ago the 42nd highest scorer (which RJ was this year) in the league was averaging 17ppg.

RJ did a decent job scoring this season. 21ppg is not what it used to be. Far more players are now capable of scoring 20ppg on average efficiency. Put RJ on a good team and he’s not scoring 20ppg because he’s not a top 2 scoring option.

[ConSarnit]

Would you guys package RJ + Dick for a pick in the 9-13 range? Use the second pick to grab a Malauch potentially. I don't know if we can get another pick in this draft but I'd love to see it!

With that pick, we can select a guy who, in 3 or 4 years, could be as good as RJ.

Last 4 draft years, here are the guys with a higher PPG than RJ this year.

Wemby- 1st overall
Banchero- 1st overall
Williams- 12th overall
Cade- 1st overall
Franz- 8th overall

That's it.

So 4 drafts...5 guys had a higher PPG this year. So yeah it's crazy to think a pock at 9-13 will just magically replace RJ's production in the first 4 years. And we are adding Gradey too?

This is a perfect example of underrating what you have and overrating the mystery box.

Why are you quoting PPG? RJ isn’t getting the shot attempts he got this year on a good team. He scored at average efficiency on a bad team. RJ did not deserve the shot attempts he got in his first 4 seasons. No good team would have given him those attempts because he was inefficient.

We’re not going to need to replace RJ’s 20ppg because they don’t mean anything because this team sucked. Ideally we’ll have multiple players supercede RJ in the pecking order because if we don’t we’re going to continue to be a bad team for the next 3-4 years.

If RJ is going to continue to be our first option
we are screwed. This is not an indictment of RJ but it’s not as simple as just saying “where are we going to get 20ppg from?”

[DreamTeam09]

More likely overrate. There were 44 players who averaged 21+ PPG this year. 10 years ago there were 20. Scoring inflation is way up.

Scoring 21 PPG on below average efficiency is nowhere near as impressive as it used to be. There is definitely a “scoring because someone has to score on a bad team” factor when considering what RJ’s output would actually be on a good team.

Kobe's ts% was 58% for the career. RJ last year 57.7%. Does that mean anything.

Not really.

Kobe’s career TS% was 55%. His last season was 2016. Kobe was scoring at much greater volume and was doing so at above average efficiency compared to the rest of the league.

League average efficiency is way up since Kobe’s prime years. RJ, in his best scoring season, did so at league average efficiency. Scoring is also way up. 10 years ago the 42nd highest scorer (which RJ was this year) in the league was averaging 17ppg.

RJ did a decent job scoring this season. 21ppg is not what it used to be. Far more players are now capable of scoring 20ppg on average efficiency. Put RJ on a good team and he’s not scoring 20ppg because he’s not a top 2 scoring option.

In theory it might be easier for RJ to get his 20 on a good team, he'll have less pressure focused on him and usually someone smaller players guarding him. He'll ask to dribble/create less and drive & finish more, things he's already good at

[mademan]

Kobe's ts% was 58% for the career. RJ last year 57.7%. Does that mean anything.

Not really.

Kobe’s career TS% was 55%. His last season was 2016. Kobe was scoring at much greater volume and was doing so at above average efficiency compared to the rest of the league.

League average efficiency is way up since Kobe’s prime years. RJ, in his best scoring season, did so at league average efficiency. Scoring is also way up. 10 years ago the 42nd highest scorer (which RJ was this year) in the league was averaging 17ppg.

RJ did a decent job scoring this season. 21ppg is not what it used to be. Far more players are now capable of scoring 20ppg on average efficiency. Put RJ on a good team and he’s not scoring 20ppg because he’s not a top 2 scoring option.

In theory it might be easier for RJ to get his 20 on a good team, he'll have less pressure focused on him and usually someone smaller players guarding him. He'll ask to dribble/create less and drive & finish more, things he's already good at

That theory didnt play out in NY

[mademan]

Would you guys package RJ + Dick for a pick in the 9-13 range? Use the second pick to grab a Malauch potentially. I don't know if we can get another pick in this draft but I'd love to see it!

With that pick, we can select a guy who, in 3 or 4 years, could be as good as RJ.

Last 4 draft years, here are the guys with a higher PPG than RJ this year.

Wemby- 1st overall
Banchero- 1st overall
Williams- 12th overall
Cade- 1st overall
Franz- 8th overall

That's it.

So 4 drafts...5 guys had a higher PPG this year. So yeah it's crazy to think a pock at 9-13 will just magically replace RJ's production in the first 4 years. And we are adding Gradey too?

This is a perfect example of underrating what you have and overrating the mystery box.

Why do people still look at ppg's?

The reality with RJ is that he has been a negative player for every of his career thus far. That is an astounding (non) achievement

[DreamTeam09]

Not really.

Kobe’s career TS% was 55%. His last season was 2016. Kobe was scoring at much greater volume and was doing so at above average efficiency compared to the rest of the league.

League average efficiency is way up since Kobe’s prime years. RJ, in his best scoring season, did so at league average efficiency. Scoring is also way up. 10 years ago the 42nd highest scorer (which RJ was this year) in the league was averaging 17ppg.

RJ did a decent job scoring this season. 21ppg is not what it used to be. Far more players are now capable of scoring 20ppg on average efficiency. Put RJ on a good team and he’s not scoring 20ppg because he’s not a top 2 scoring option.

In theory it might be easier for RJ to get his 20 on a good team, he'll have less pressure focused on him and usually someone smaller players guarding him. He'll ask to dribble/create less and drive & finish more, things he's already good at

That theory didnt play out in NY

Well he did get to 20ppg 19ppg 18ppg in NY on a team not really conducive to his strengths

[DreamTeam09]

With that pick, we can select a guy who, in 3 or 4 years, could be as good as RJ.

Last 4 draft years, here are the guys with a higher PPG than RJ this year.

Wemby- 1st overall
Banchero- 1st overall
Williams- 12th overall
Cade- 1st overall
Franz- 8th overall

That's it.

So 4 drafts...5 guys had a higher PPG this year. So yeah it's crazy to think a pock at 9-13 will just magically replace RJ's production in the first 4 years. And we are adding Gradey too?

This is a perfect example of underrating what you have and overrating the mystery box.

Why do people still look at ppg's?

The reality with RJ is that he has been a negative player for every of his career thus far. That is an astounding (non) achievement

He's been a negative player for the Toronto Raptors? How sway?

[ConSarnit]

Kobe's ts% was 58% for the career. RJ last year 57.7%. Does that mean anything.

Not really.

Kobe’s career TS% was 55%. His last season was 2016. Kobe was scoring at much greater volume and was doing so at above average efficiency compared to the rest of the league.

League average efficiency is way up since Kobe’s prime years. RJ, in his best scoring season, did so at league average efficiency. Scoring is also way up. 10 years ago the 42nd highest scorer (which RJ was this year) in the league was averaging 17ppg.

RJ did a decent job scoring this season. 21ppg is not what it used to be. Far more players are now capable of scoring 20ppg on average efficiency. Put RJ on a good team and he’s not scoring 20ppg because he’s not a top 2 scoring option.

In theory it might be easier for RJ to get his 20 on a good team, he'll have less pressure focused on him and usually someone smaller players guarding him. He'll ask to dribble/create less and drive & finish more, things he's already good at

Maybe. While his efficiency would likely improve I feel like his FGA would probably decrease as a 3rd option. There just aren’t a lot of 3rd options getting the FGA to get to 20ppg (unless they are very efficient, or which RJ is not). There were only 50 players who averaged 20ppg+ this season. Almost all of the 3rd option, 20ppg scoring types were high volume 3pt shooters (and the majority of those guys were on bad teams).

I don’t see a good team giving RJ the reps. His shooting doesn’t scale.

[DreamTeam09]

RJ leads is draft class in total points scored

[ConSarnit]

Last 4 draft years, here are the guys with a higher PPG than RJ this year.

Wemby- 1st overall
Banchero- 1st overall
Williams- 12th overall
Cade- 1st overall
Franz- 8th overall

That's it.

So 4 drafts...5 guys had a higher PPG this year. So yeah it's crazy to think a pock at 9-13 will just magically replace RJ's production in the first 4 years. And we are adding Gradey too?

This is a perfect example of underrating what you have and overrating the mystery box.

Why do people still look at ppg's?

The reality with RJ is that he has been a negative player for every of his career thus far. That is an astounding (non) achievement

He's been a negative player for the Toronto Raptors? How sway?

I’ve been critical of RJ but he was definitely not negative this year. His defense was “ok” and he was the only guy capable of scoring at volume on acceptable efficiency (IQ was ok at this but missed a bunch of time).

[JRoy]

RJ leads is draft class in total points scored

Teh ppgorz!

[mademan]

Last 4 draft years, here are the guys with a higher PPG than RJ this year.

Wemby- 1st overall
Banchero- 1st overall
Williams- 12th overall
Cade- 1st overall
Franz- 8th overall

That's it.

So 4 drafts...5 guys had a higher PPG this year. So yeah it's crazy to think a pock at 9-13 will just magically replace RJ's production in the first 4 years. And we are adding Gradey too?

This is a perfect example of underrating what you have and overrating the mystery box.

Why do people still look at ppg's?

The reality with RJ is that he has been a negative player for every of his career thus far. That is an astounding (non) achievement

He's been a negative player for the Toronto Raptors? How sway?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/barrerj01/on-off/2020

I miscounted. 5 years in the league and the team he has been on has performed positively with him on the court 1 time...in 2021. For a guy who's been on some winning teams and playing big minutes, this is borderline unheard of.

Count the ppg's all you want, but he doesnt exert any positive impact. Consistently below league average efficiency and consistently plays poor defense (i will say his effort did improve over the last 25 games). He is what he is.

[mihaic]

More likely overrate. There were 44 players who averaged 21+ PPG this year. 10 years ago there were 20. Scoring inflation is way up.

Scoring 21 PPG on below average efficiency is nowhere near as impressive as it used to be. There is definitely a “scoring because someone has to score on a bad team” factor when considering what RJ’s output would actually be on a good team.

Kobe's ts% was 58% for the career. RJ last year 57.7%. Does that mean anything.

Not really.

Kobe’s career TS% was 55%. His last season was 2016. Kobe was scoring at much greater volume and was doing so at above average efficiency compared to the rest of the league.

League average efficiency is way up since Kobe’s prime years. RJ, in his best scoring season, did so at league average efficiency. Scoring is also way up. 10 years ago the 42nd highest scorer (which RJ was this year) in the league was averaging 17ppg.

RJ did a decent job scoring this season. 21ppg is not what it used to be. Far more players are now capable of scoring 20ppg on average efficiency. Put RJ on a good team and he’s not scoring 20ppg because he’s not a top 2 scoring option.

Sounds like making excuses for your theory. RJ on a good team would torch the opponents due to attention shifted to someone else. And he ca pass too. His TS% is not as bad for a volume scorer.

His weakness on O is his FT%. He improves that, his efficiency goes up.

Edit 1: his efficiency for the position is above average. SG is 57.3%, SF is 57.0%.
Edit 2: Example: Ja Morant is at 56.3%.

[ConSarnit]

Kobe's ts% was 58% for the career. RJ last year 57.7%. Does that mean anything.

Not really.

Kobe’s career TS% was 55%. His last season was 2016. Kobe was scoring at much greater volume and was doing so at above average efficiency compared to the rest of the league.

League average efficiency is way up since Kobe’s prime years. RJ, in his best scoring season, did so at league average efficiency. Scoring is also way up. 10 years ago the 42nd highest scorer (which RJ was this year) in the league was averaging 17ppg.

RJ did a decent job scoring this season. 21ppg is not what it used to be. Far more players are now capable of scoring 20ppg on average efficiency. Put RJ on a good team and he’s not scoring 20ppg because he’s not a top 2 scoring option.

Sounds like making excuses for your theory. RJ on a good team would torch the opponents due to attention shifted to someone else. And he ca pass too. His TS% is not as bad for a volume scorer.

His weakness on O is his FT%. He improves that, his efficiency goes up.

Edit 1: his efficiency for the position is above average. SG is 57.3%, SF is 57.0%.
Edit 2: Example: Ja Morant is at 56.3%.

RJ was literally the 3rd option on a 50 win team last year and he was 54% TS. He’s improved since then but that’s the only example we have of him on a good team. He got fewer touches and his PPG dropped.

You’re quoting SG stats and then you bring up Ja who is a PG. Ja has his own issues but is a much better creator and rim attacker. I have no idea why you would bring him up.

If you can’t see the difference between Kobe’s scoring and efficiency vs RJ’s scoring and efficiency relative to their eras I can’t help you.

And finally, the main thing we were talking about is PPG here and how meaningless that is as a stat. Nowhere did I say RJ wouldn’t be efficient on a better team. I said he wouldn’t be a volume scorer because no good team would give him enough touches.

You made some ridiculous Kobe comp and then when shown why it was different you completely ignored your own argument. It’s clear you don’t understand efficiency across eras so it’s probably not worth arguing anymore.

[OhCanada]

Why do people still look at ppg's?

The reality with RJ is that he has been a negative player for every of his career thus far. That is an astounding (non) achievement

He's been a negative player for the Toronto Raptors? How sway?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/barrerj01/on-off/2020

I miscounted. 5 years in the league and the team he has been on has performed positively with him on the court 1 time...in 2021. For a guy who's been on some winning teams and playing big minutes, this is borderline unheard of.

Count the ppg's all you want, but he doesnt exert any positive impact. Consistently below league average efficiency and consistently plays poor defense (i will say his effort did improve over the last 25 games). He is what he is.

You aint got the anwsers!

Watch on YouTube

[OhCanada]

Heres some interesting stats on RJ Barrett that you guys might not know which suggest he is not just a high usage chucker like people are saying.

95% of his 3's are assisted.

He improved his long two point jumpshots from about 30% to about 50% and despite that only 6% of his shots are long 2's. Thats very effecient modern NBA stuff.

[Thaddy]

Heres some interesting stats on RJ Barrett that you guys might not know which suggest he is not just a high usage chucker like people are saying.

95% of his 3's are assisted.

He improved his long two point jumpshots from about 30% to about 50% and despite that only 6% of his shots are long 2's. Thats very effecient modern NBA stuff.

We need to get someone who can create perimeter shots on his own using pick and rolls with Barnes and Poeltl. Removing RJ would be addition by subtraction, especially if he's replaced by someone like Agbaji in the starting line up.

RJ for Gafford and Washington, some kind of first round pick.

Poeltl / Gafford / Maluach
Barnes / Washington
Ingram / Mogbo
Agbaji / Dick / Walter
IQ / Shead

I would sell Washington and Gafford at the deadline next year similar to Mitchell to get some additional 2nd round picks so we can make a consolidation trade later.