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With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles!

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Re: With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles! 

Post#1041 » by HumbleRen » Thu Jun 26, 2025 5:34 pm

disoblige wrote:
HumbleRen wrote:
CMB will be a better scorer than Scottie, even without the jumpshot.


Nbadraft.net has a different opinion. btw, Scottie Barnes has a max vertical leap of 39.5 inches with 9'0.0'' standing reach.


Weaknesses: At 6’6.5″ barefoot, Murray-Boyles is undersized for a traditional post player, and while his 7’0” wingspan helps mitigate some of that, he lacks the vertical explosiveness and lateral quickness typically needed to overcome size limitations at the NBA level … He’s not particularly quick or bouncy, which could hinder his ability to finish over length or defend quicker forwards in space … His offensive game is heavily reliant on physicality, and he may face a steep adjustment against stronger, more athletic defenders at the next level … Lacks consistent perimeter shooting touch, hitting just 26.5% from three and 70.7% from the free throw line as a sophomore … While he did show growth by attempting more threes (9-of-34), his overall efficiency remains a concern, his mechanics look okay, but results are inconsistent, limiting his projection as a stretch-four or pick-and-pop threat … According to Hoop-Math.com, 75% of his shot attempts came at the rim, where he converted just 66.7%, a concern given the step up in rim protection at the pro level … Struggles to create in space and is still developing offensive polish beyond bully-ball tactics in the post … Can be turnover-prone (2.4 TO per game) when asked to initiate offense or operate as a creator against athletic defenders … Though a willing and creative passer, he doesn’t project as a true playmaking forward, lacking the vision and ball-handling to function as a secondary initiator … Much of his long-term offensive potential hinges on developing a reliable jumper, but there’s currently little statistical evidence to suggest that’s imminent … Without a more refined offensive skill set or improved athleticism, his scoring efficiency and overall impact may be limited against NBA-caliber competition.

Outlook: Murray-Boyles projects as a rotational big with starter potential, though realizing that upside will likely depend on continued development of his offensive skill set … Some evaluators are extremely high on him, with projections ranging from a lottery pick to a potential future All-Star due to his age, toughness, and versatility … However, we’re on the lower side of his NBA projection … While he has been one of the most productive and assertive young players in college basketball over the past two seasons, his skill set doesn’t necessarily translate as well to today’s NBA… He stands out in analytics models thanks to his ability to impact the game across multiple categories, rebounding, steals, assists, and defensive activity, especially as a long, switchable forward … But the negatives must be weighed carefully: he’s essentially a small-ball big who lacks ideal lift, explosiveness, and shooting range … Without significant improvement as a shooter and more refinement in his offensive game, there’s a real risk that his effectiveness doesn’t carry over against NBA length and speed … He could still carve out a role as a high-motor utility forward, but projecting him as more than that, without tangible skill growth — could be overly optimistic …


NBAdraft is a fossil stone lol.

And I already said it before, Scottie’s stationary athleticism numbers blows Cooper and CMB’s out of the door but that’s just stationary workouts. It’s not the same as functional nba athleticism.

It’s why RJ is a much better driver and rim pressuring player than Scottie despite having 0 advantages over Scottie in stationary athleticism ability.

Watch Cooper and CMB’s tape, the way they utilize their physical ability is night and day compared to Scottie.
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Re: With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles! 

Post#1042 » by dhackett1565 » Thu Jun 26, 2025 5:35 pm

There's a lot of talking about CMB's potential ceiling as a shooter - and he definitely has a lot of work to do there - but anyone writing a significant improvement off entirely is not being realistic.

Yeah, lots of Ryan Dunn content earlier in the thread. And people like to point out "even if he improves like Pascal did, that's not exactly a sharpshooter." But Pascal is the wrong compare I think - the Raptors have a better one. And one that provides some short term optimism and not just long term.

OG Anunoby. He shot 31% from 3 in his draft college season. His defence was a known quantity, and going into his rookie year, the hope was he could play rotation minutes and grow as a shooter. Instead he came out the gate a 40% shooter from the NBA line and ended up the starting SF real quick.

CMB had a pretty messed up form in college - specifically in spot ups. So it's mostly shot prep. That's something that can definitely be fixed with proper coaching and reps. I'd peg his shooting as more of a complete unknown than a known problem until we see how he does throughout his rookie year at least. Considering his touch is pretty good closer to the basket and even out to midrange and at the FT line, plenty of room for optimism re: him correcting his mechanics and being able to develop that skill set.
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Re: With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles! 

Post#1043 » by NinjaBro » Thu Jun 26, 2025 5:36 pm

ontnut wrote:I watched the CBS draft analysis with Avery Johnson and found this bit funny:

Spurs: Have a ROY PG, trade for an all-star PG, draft another PG with the #2 pick. Avery: "I give it an A, you don't worry about fit, you just draft BPA. You can never have enough quality depth. You need a deep roster like IND and OKC with 6-7-8-9th guys". The Spurs have 3 starting PGs that need minutes - not a problem.

Raptors: Have a ROY F, trade for an all-star F, draft another F with the #9 pick. Avery: "I give it a C-, I don't like the fit, they should've drafted for fit." Doesn't care about quality depth apparently now, depending on the pick and the team lol. Raptors have 3 quality F's to play 2 F positions. That's apparently a problem.

These guys are just talking out of their asses.
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Re: With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles! 

Post#1044 » by PushDaRock » Thu Jun 26, 2025 5:37 pm

tsherkin wrote:
PushDaRock wrote:I have the same concerns but Bobby made it pretty clear we are still in the talent acquisition phase and that takes priority over fit. I just assume they were a lot higher on CMB than they were everyone else still available that might have fit the current roster better.


Yeah, talent acquisition is a good thing. But what we do with said talent is also important, right? Redundancy reduces value.


Like I said, I have the same concerns. CMB on their board must have been far and away the best prospect and maybe they view his potential as even higher than Scottie's and they couldn't pass that up or they actually think these guys are interchangeable and will be able to play together. I have my doubts.
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Re: With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles! 

Post#1045 » by Duffman100 » Thu Jun 26, 2025 5:39 pm

NinjaBro wrote:
ConSarnit wrote:
HangTime wrote:
Darko will help CMB with his shooting.

I think Scottie can already shoot, It's the balance that was thrown off when OG was traded, he leaned more of his energy to defence.

I think Energy balance between offence and defence is completely overlooked by people.


Thousands of NBA players have been able to shoot and play defense at the same time. This is some of the worst excuse making for Barnes I’ve ever seen.
We need mdenny's thought in this


Mdenny will return in 58 days
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Re: With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles! 

Post#1046 » by PushDaRock » Thu Jun 26, 2025 5:40 pm

djsunyc wrote:y'all think about this stuff way too much. and y'all give yourselves way too much credit. lol.


lol for sure literally nobody knows anything really, it's a crapshoot.
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Re: With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles! 

Post#1047 » by niQ » Thu Jun 26, 2025 5:40 pm

ontnut wrote:I watched the CBS draft analysis with Avery Johnson and found this bit funny:

Spurs: Have a ROY PG, trade for an all-star PG, draft another PG with the #2 pick. Avery: "I give it an A, you don't worry about fit, you just draft BPA. You can never have enough quality depth. You need a deep roster like IND and OKC with 6-7-8-9th guys". The Spurs have 3 starting PGs that need minutes - not a problem.

Raptors: Have a ROY F, trade for an all-star F, draft another F with the #9 pick. Avery: "I give it a C-, I don't like the fit, they should've drafted for fit." Doesn't care about quality depth apparently now, depending on the pick and the team lol. Raptors have 3 quality F's to play 2 F positions. That's apparently a problem.

These guys are just talking out of their asses.


I don't even bother with those draft analysis videos anymore. Most times it's a low grade because we didn't draft based on their specific big board.
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Re: With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles! 

Post#1048 » by ConSarnit » Thu Jun 26, 2025 5:41 pm

OakleyDokely wrote:
ConSarnit wrote:
OakleyDokely wrote:
We'd be worse off from an asset standpoint if we took Suggs instead though. What's the alternative, take the worse player whose a better fit? If the team thinks CMB is the best on the board, you take the best on the board.


Obviously I’m ignoring the Suggs stuff. That wasn’t really my point.

You’re acting like CMB is some 90/100 level prospect and every guy taken below him is 78/100. There’s just no way the gap between CMB and some of the guys taken after him is that big. If we’re committed to Barnes doesn’t it make sense to sacrifice a little upside for fit? By all accounts I’d have CMB as the worst fit with Barnes of anyone available.

I’m no draft expert but I can’t believe CMB has so much upside that we had to take him no matter how badly he fits with our franchise player.

Now, if you want to tell me the FO is down on Barnes then yeah, CMB is a fine pick. But if that’s the case what the f*ck are we doing trying to build around him?


Nobody outside the Raps knows how highly he was rated, I'm just saying that I'm taking BPA over fit, especially when you're talking about 18/19/20 years olds. Most of these guys aren't going to be ready to seriously contribute positively for 2-3 years and by then your roster will look a lot different given how high the roster turnover is in the NBA.

Barnes isn't a franchise player. He's not SGA, Jokic or Giannis. He's a really good player, but you can't completely avoid positions because he exists. He's not nearly good enough for that. And this is coming from a Barnes fan.


Why are we holding onto Barnes? He’s making franchise player money. He’s the guy we decided to keep. Why are we building a team around him if he’s not a franchise guy?
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Re: With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles! 

Post#1049 » by ontnut » Thu Jun 26, 2025 5:42 pm

JB7 wrote:
Potential wrote:This post from a Raptors fan who predicted we'd draft CMB got me hyped. Masai has done it again.

https://www.reddit.com/r/torontoraptors/s/XI7BROSr8F


Excellent post, and also got me super excited about CMB.

That guy really called his shot and nailed it. Very interesting to see his in depth analysis on CMB but also on how certain stats can be indicators of performance, or failure, at the NBA level. Great read. Thanks Potential and the OP.
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Re: With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles! 

Post#1050 » by PushDaRock » Thu Jun 26, 2025 5:43 pm

dhackett1565 wrote:There's a lot of talking about CMB's potential ceiling as a shooter - and he definitely has a lot of work to do there - but anyone writing a significant improvement off entirely is not being realistic.

Yeah, lots of Ryan Dunn content earlier in the thread. And people like to point out "even if he improves like Pascal did, that's not exactly a sharpshooter." But Pascal is the wrong compare I think - the Raptors have a better one. And one that provides some short term optimism and not just long term.

OG Anunoby. He shot 31% from 3 in his draft college season. His defence was a known quantity, and going into his rookie year, the hope was he could play rotation minutes and grow as a shooter. Instead he came out the gate a 40% shooter from the NBA line and ended up the starting SF real quick.

CMB had a pretty messed up form in college - specifically in spot ups. So it's mostly shot prep. That's something that can definitely be fixed with proper coaching and reps. I'd peg his shooting as more of a complete unknown than a known problem until we see how he does throughout his rookie year at least. Considering his touch is pretty good closer to the basket and even out to midrange and at the FT line, plenty of room for optimism re: him correcting his mechanics and being able to develop that skill set.


It can really go a lot of ways. I thought Jak would have developed some semblance of a jumper by now, he has elite touch and the form was not bad at all in draft workouts. It just never happened for him.
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Re: With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles! 

Post#1051 » by Dalek » Thu Jun 26, 2025 5:43 pm

Duffman100 wrote:
Dalek wrote:
Duffman100 wrote:
Hes a much more skilled Grant Williams. Size or not, skill matters a ton.

And very debatable on all 3.

Malauch has his warts despite his size
Cedric Coward is already 22.
Carter Bryant had limited playing time and zero self creation tools

I don't see any of the 3 of them having clear higher upside that CMB.


Coward is 21 until September, but like Jaylen Wells his potential was buried because of his weird path to the NBA. He has a several years shooting history, athleticism and size to be a steal. It is not hard to project him in a similar way as Wells who became a starter and basically made it easier to move Bane.

I mean its a 3P shooting league and most of those players have that while Maluach has true NBA size for his position. He basically can do similar things as he did in Duke and be a back-up C in short time.

CMB played a high usage role that he won't get in Toronto. It is hard to see the upside of a hustle player. People may say the playmaking is his swing skill but he was very turnover prone. He is very left hand dominant and is like RJ always going left. It will be interesting to see how quickly he adapts.

Personally, if we were going the undersized big route, I would have saw more upside with Asa Newell.


Asa Newell was flagged as one of the higher floor, lower upside players in this draft.

There's a reason CMB was mock and taken as a lottery pick and Newell was routinely mocked and drafted in the late teens to early 20s. I'm not convince you followed this draft closely if you're flagging Newell as a higher upside player.


As Tozlman said, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Asa is a better athlete, has shooting upside and a quality defender. I mean Asa at least attempted to shoot and showed in a lot of the pre-draft process that he could shoot.

CMB shot 26.5% from three, 18.2% guarded and 30.4% unguarded on only 34 attempts the entire season. He is going to have to be prime Thad Young to play ISO ball and not shoot. It is really a struggle to see an archetype for him that is successful in the NBA.

I do think the defense is real and will be great but wouldn't we have been better suited to target a big like KM or even Beringer?
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Re: With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles! 

Post#1052 » by NinjaBro » Thu Jun 26, 2025 5:46 pm

Duffman100 wrote:
NinjaBro wrote:
ConSarnit wrote:
Thousands of NBA players have been able to shoot and play defense at the same time. This is some of the worst excuse making for Barnes I’ve ever seen.
We need mdenny's thought in this


Mdenny will return in 58 days
Wuh when? Damn almost 60 days woof
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Re: With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles! 

Post#1053 » by Bruin » Thu Jun 26, 2025 5:46 pm

Duffman100 wrote:I'm still waiting to hear who the clear higher upside pick was in this situation?

In the moment i wanted Maluach but i was also happy with CMB as he was one of my favorite prospects in our range.

Just glad we avoided Essengue. Imagine the reactions if we actually went that route :lol:
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Re: With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles! 

Post#1054 » by alpngso » Thu Jun 26, 2025 5:46 pm

kid’s got some jokes. love the IG post
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Re: With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles! 

Post#1055 » by Grew » Thu Jun 26, 2025 5:47 pm

So similar to the Scottie draft for me. I liked Scottie for the raps when he was in high school, and he was top of my board at 7. I didn't want him at 4, I thought we moved into another draft tier.

For CMB, I liked him for us last year before he pulled out of the draft. Saw him in a summer run and thought he looked improved. The fit with the current roster is just so ugly on paper I counted him out completely all year.

Watched a ton of his highlights last night. What stands out most to me is how he does everything with 100 percent focus and intensity. He still knows how to play with pace but all his movements and decisions are percise and explosive. It's definitely a strange and underrated skill, but I don't see most people able to do anything consistently with that type of intensity and focus, like he's got 100 percent uptime on his brain and body finding something useful to do on the court.

He doesn't really seem like a great athlete, but to be able to move that frame with such agility is impressive. He's like a football player body but he's 100 percent a basketball player, with quick processing and great footwork.
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Re: With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles! 

Post#1056 » by rafterman » Thu Jun 26, 2025 5:47 pm

A bench of Shead/Ochai/JaKobe/CMB/JoMo is going to be a freaking wood chipper on D. Prepare to see opposing benches cry and go back to school to become accountants.

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Re: With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles! 

Post#1057 » by djsunyc » Thu Jun 26, 2025 5:47 pm

NinjaBro wrote:
Duffman100 wrote:
NinjaBro wrote:We need mdenny's thought in this


Mdenny will return in 58 days
Wuh when? Damn almost 60 days woof


send him the link to clutchfans so he can post all his pro fred anti scottie garbage there lol
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Re: With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles! 

Post#1058 » by NinjaBro » Thu Jun 26, 2025 5:48 pm

rafterman wrote:A bench of Shead/Ochai/JaKobe/CMB/JoMo is going to be a freaking wood chipper on D. Prepare to see opposing benches cry and go back to school to become accountants.

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None of them besides Ochai can shoot
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Re: With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles! 

Post#1059 » by ConSarnit » Thu Jun 26, 2025 5:49 pm

PushDaRock wrote:
tsherkin wrote:
PushDaRock wrote:I have the same concerns but Bobby made it pretty clear we are still in the talent acquisition phase and that takes priority over fit. I just assume they were a lot higher on CMB than they were everyone else still available that might have fit the current roster better.


Yeah, talent acquisition is a good thing. But what we do with said talent is also important, right? Redundancy reduces value.


Like I said, I have the same concerns. CMB on their board must have been far and away the best prospect and maybe they view his potential as even higher than Scottie's and they couldn't pass that up or they actually think these guys are interchangeable and will be able to play together. I have my doubts.


There has to be an almost 100% chance there will be a better player taken after CMB. And another very high chance there will be another player of a similar level but different position taken after CMB. The front office must believe he has enormous potential given his flaws (shooting, not easy to fix) and his ill fit with Barnes (our theoretical franchise player).

They must be extremely confident they can fix CMB’s shooting.
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Re: With the 9th Pick, the Raptors select Collin Murray-Boyles! 

Post#1060 » by djsunyc » Thu Jun 26, 2025 5:49 pm

rafterman wrote:A bench of Shead/Ochai/JaKobe/CMB/JoMo is going to be a freaking wood chipper on D. Prepare to see opposing benches cry and go back to school to become accountants.

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if ochai can be like he was last year with incremental improvements while shead + jakobe level up, then we are cooking.

that POA defense with CMB behind them could be world class. just need that lob threat at center for some different options.

i'm on board bringing back precious or koloko on whatever's left of the cap under tax but not sure if darko likes those type of bigs.

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