Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 4

[DreamTeam09]

That mkg mix did impress me a little more still... Marion lite with a better jumpshot, iggy maybe?? I think him and demar could play well off each other tho. I wanna hear how coach cal talks about him.

[Leolovinliberal]

brief highlight mix of mkg

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOzb2-WghjY[/youtube]

Looks 100% like a great energy/hustle player....and he would definitely thrive in Casey's system. But I keep saying it that I would only like him with a 2nd pick. If we picked up another or we were lucky like NOH then I would draft either Barnes or Lamb and then grab MKG with the 2nd.

The only team to me that he makes complete sense as a 1st pick is SAC.

That team already has 2 great young talents....what they need is a glue guy to bring them together and influence the culture (even WAS to a lesser degree as they're still in need of more talent).

I just do not get the Barnes love.

[Undefeated]

Wow, Kidd-Gilchrist with the nasty crossover and change of pace at 0:29 and 2:02. Handles look really smooth and tight.

[JamesNaismith]

I just do not get the Barnes love.

Because Barnes' is a pure shooter with the potential to be 20+ppg scorer, with a NBA build, solid rebounding and defence. I don't think he warrants any hype but he should be a solid player. If he's a good enough defender and can score better then naturally people will want him a little bit more.

[5DOM]

I'm not a fan of Barnes but he would be awesome if we could get Deron Williams here.

Williams/DeRozan/Barnes/Bargs/Valanciunas has some potential

[Marlo Stanfield]

I'm not a fan of Barnes but he would be awesome if we could get Deron Williams here.

Williams/DeRozan/Barnes/Bargs/Valanciunas has some potential

Tons of it! But it's far-fetched.

[Leolovinliberal]

I just do not get the Barnes love.

Because Barnes' is a pure shooter with the potential to be 20+ppg scorer, with a NBA build, solid rebounding and defence. I don't think he warrants any hype but he should be a solid player. If he's a good enough defender and can score better then naturally people will want him a little bit more.

What do you base that on? Did you read the thread about him in the draft forum that I linked to? They did a really good job at breaking him down, and it isn't pretty.

[Tofubeque]

I'm not a huge Barnes fan, but he's the best wing player in the draft. Objectively it's pretty clear. Beal, Lamb or MKG could always surpass him but they'd have to really blossom at the next level.

MKG looks like he'll be another Demar offensively, but he's further along in the rest of his game. If we draft something like 5th and wind up with him, I'd be pretty happy

[Marlo Stanfield]

What do you base that on? Did you read the thread about him in the draft forum that I linked to? They did a really good job at breaking him down, and it isn't pretty.

The thread dominated by Steely's hate? Yea, I'll definitely take my information from there That guy gets the biggest hard on for PJIII who screams bust. That thread is a joke, all they do is pick on his handle. Every person and their grandma on this board know his handles are weak, but improved. Key word is improved, and I've heard is work ethic is DeMar-esque so we'll see where it goes. As for the last guy implying Morrison is better because he could create at the college level; wow, just wow.

[JamesNaismith]

I'm not a huge Barnes fan, but he's the best wing player in the draft. Objectively it's pretty clear. Beal, Lamb or MKG could always surpass him but they'd have to really blossom at the next level.

MKG looks like he'll be another Demar offensively, but he's further along in the rest of his game. If we draft something like 5th and wind up with him, I'd be pretty happy

I wouldn't say "DeMar" on offence cuz DD is far more athletic is more run off PNRs, alley oops and when he's already cutting to the rim so he only has to take a couple of dribbles....and MKG scorers A LOT more on hustle points: running up the court on fastbreak, steals, putbacks and just cutting into open lanes for an easy shot/lay up.

[Undefeated]

LOL I'd take whatever Steely says with a grain of salt.

Anyways, Barnes' handles isn't anywhere near as weak as it was last year where he would often dribble the ball in front of his body as opposed to the side of his body where the ball (which he's doing this year) is less exposed and reduces the chance of the ball getting poked out of his hands. He's also getting out of the habit of being in an upright position by getting lower to the floor and keeping his dribble low similar to how Kevin Durant improved this year. He just can't make his defender ice skate which isn't that big of a deal. As long as Barnes can continue to knock down the two dribble pull-up in the NBA, defenders will have to start to key in on him and all he needs is two strong power dribbles securing the ball tightly and he should be good getting to the basket.

Here, watch this clip of Barnes against VA Tech...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5dVMCRc1rg[/youtube]

I mean, watch how Barnes does an excellent job of keeping the ball away from his defender. When he turns the corner off that screen (0:53 & 1:04) or puts the ball down on the floor one-on-one (1:14) for a pull-up jumper or drive, notice how he places his body between the defender and the ball preventing it from getting poked. If the defender tries to reach for the ball, that's an automatic foul. You can have yo-yo handles, but without a decision in mind, it's useless. Watching Barnes, he makes effective use of his dribbles with a plan of what he wants to do and that's all that's needed.

[tcee]

from what i've seen from james johnson thus far, i would take barnes over mkg right now. points being that barnes has more experience, and has shown multiple times that he can perform in the clutch. and as much as i like mkg's game, he just seems rawer than barnes, and explainably so because barnes has a year of college ball exp on him. in any case, hb is a better FIT with the raptors with a known ability to provide scoring at the sf position while playing solid defense which is what the team so desperately needs right now. from what i've seen of mkg, he doesn't have this same reputation.

[fredericklove]

Wow, Kidd-Gilchrist with the nasty crossover and change of pace at 0:29 and 2:02. Handles look really smooth and tight.

Hes really got that passing instinct, I can see him spotting Bargs in the perimeter and Val in the paint wide open alot in the game. You notice how he holds the ball one handed like a football player to shield from others, it looks so swag when he does that. Also it gives him more power to drive harder ...but I just love his neck for the rebound and seriously I cant see him not avg. 7 reb per game in the nba with that aggressive style of play.

[fredericklove]

I just do not get the Barnes love.

Because Barnes' is a pure shooter with the potential to be 20+ppg scorer, with a NBA build, solid rebounding and defence. I don't think he warrants any hype but he should be a solid player. If he's a good enough defender and can score better then naturally people will want him a little bit more.

What do you base that on? Did you read the thread about him in the draft forum that I linked to? They did a really good job at breaking him down, and it isn't pretty.

Leo. We based off on games we watch. Whatever your other site brought its all just bashing on him in the games where he made poor FG%. We know what hes capable of when hes on, we all watched him play every game this year and last year too. You can argue the fact that Barnes makes tough low-percentage shot at times but otherwise, hes got a good shooting touch with good shooting form and when he gets in the groove he can knock down jumpers non-stop.

[fredericklove]

The thread dominated by Steely's hate? Yea, I'll definitely take my information from there That guy gets the biggest hard on for PJIII who screams bust. That thread is a joke, all they do is pick on his handle. Every person and their grandma on this board know his handles are weak, but improved. Key word is improved, and I've heard is work ethic is DeMar-esque so we'll see where it goes. As for the last guy implying Morrison is better because he could create at the college level; wow, just wow.

I LMAO when Leo showed us a thread thats filled with Steely-infected hate posts, cant believe Leo used it as a source to debate with us on Barnes. Yea, I see improvement in his handle. He doesnt have yo-yo handle but he starts to understand how to be more cautious when he drives. The only legitimate dislike I have over Barnes is his inability to find other guys. His court vision is very limited, I can get that cos Marshall is the primary ball-handler of the team thus whenever he gets the ball in his hand he will just look to score rather than pass it out. But this area I am still concerned for, not sure if hes able to avg 3 asts per game in the NBA, or have some of Paul Pierces court vision. Otherwise, I look at him as a big time scorer in the NBA cos whichever team he ends up in, he will definitely get alot of plays designed for him.

LOL I'd take whatever Steely says with a grain of salt.


I mean, watch how Barnes does an excellent job of keeping the ball away from his defender. When he turns the corner off that screen (0:53 & 1:04) or puts the ball down on the floor one-on-one (1:14) for a pull-up jumper or drive, notice how he places his body between the defender and the ball preventing it from getting poked. If the defender tries to reach for the ball, that's an automatic foul. You can have yo-yo handles, but without a decision in mind, it's useless. Watching Barnes, he makes effective use of his dribbles with a plan of what he wants to do and that's all that's needed.

I think last year watching him every game, he never ever used his body to shield the ball. He was literally like Qmiller faced up mode trying to crossover thus he gets stripped evertyime. Now he learns hes got to use his body more, and he knows hes going to get double-team and whenever he senses another defender coming at him he will either pass it back out to avoid turnovers or use his body again. Last year he will just blindly run into 2 defenders .

[Leolovinliberal]

The thread dominated by Steely's hate? Yea, I'll definitely take my information from there That guy gets the biggest hard on for PJIII who screams bust. That thread is a joke, all they do is pick on his handle. Every person and their grandma on this board know his handles are weak, but improved. Key word is improved, and I've heard is work ethic is DeMar-esque so we'll see where it goes. As for the last guy implying Morrison is better because he could create at the college level; wow, just wow.

I LMAO when Leo showed us a thread thats filled with Steely-infected hate posts, cant believe Leo used it as a source to debate with us on Barnes. Yea, I see improvement in his handle. He doesnt have yo-yo handle but he starts to understand how to be more cautious when he drives. The only legitimate dislike I have over Barnes is his inability to find other guys. His court vision is very limited, I can get that cos Marshall is the primary ball-handler of the team thus whenever he gets the ball in his hand he will just look to score rather than pass it out. But this area I am still concerned for, not sure if hes able to avg 3 asts per game in the NBA, or have some of Paul Pierces court vision. Otherwise, I look at him as a big time scorer in the NBA cos whichever team he ends up in, he will definitely get alot of plays designed for him.

LOL I'd take whatever Steely says with a grain of salt.


I mean, watch how Barnes does an excellent job of keeping the ball away from his defender. When he turns the corner off that screen (0:53 & 1:04) or puts the ball down on the floor one-on-one (1:14) for a pull-up jumper or drive, notice how he places his body between the defender and the ball preventing it from getting poked. If the defender tries to reach for the ball, that's an automatic foul. You can have yo-yo handles, but without a decision in mind, it's useless. Watching Barnes, he makes effective use of his dribbles with a plan of what he wants to do and that's all that's needed.

I think last year watching him every game, he never ever used his body to shield the ball. He was literally like Qmiller faced up mode trying to crossover thus he gets stripped evertyime. Now he learns hes got to use his body more, and he knows hes going to get double-team and whenever he senses another defender coming at him he will either pass it back out to avoid turnovers or use his body again. Last year he will just blindly run into 2 defenders .

This post is not from Steely:

Your posts are absurd in the PJ vs Davis thread, but here you're exactly right. When he had Larry Drew - a poor PG - playing with him, Barnes was pretty much a disaster. That's because he showed absolutely zero ability to create his own shot - much less create for anyone else. It's only since he's gotten to play with the best passing PG in the nation that he's blossomed. And with all due respect to Furb, having 2 very good inside scoring threats on your team is hardly a detriment to Barnes scoring. Their presence has certainly helped his efficiency.

[fredericklove]

I'm not a huge Barnes fan, but he's the best wing player in the draft. Objectively it's pretty clear. Beal, Lamb or MKG could always surpass him but they'd have to really blossom at the next level.

MKG looks like he'll be another Demar offensively, but he's further along in the rest of his game. If we draft something like 5th and wind up with him, I'd be pretty happy

I wouldn't say "DeMar" on offence cuz DD is far more athletic is more run off PNRs, alley oops and when he's already cutting to the rim so he only has to take a couple of dribbles....and MKG scorers A LOT more on hustle points: running up the court on fastbreak, steals, putbacks and just cutting into open lanes for an easy shot/lay up.

I think MKG still growing as a player offensively, he does have some mature moves (in & out, and protects the ball with his body) but its true he will always have problems creating for himself but in Caseys system where theres lots of screens and p&r, including a guy like Val who loves pick & roll...I think that will help MKG to excel in where hes at his best - slashing fearlessly. And MKG has high bbiq too, Im sure he will find lots of ways to score points, his expertise in other areas (rebounding, passing, and defending) are too good to ignore, too good to pass in the draft. Those things he does can really impact the game in so many ways and in BIG ways too. We have Bargs as 1st option on offense, possibly a good veteran point guard and we just need demar to be a consistent player...for MKG if hes on our team, he will do everything else to help the team, also his charisma and leadership are also a plus for this team too. If we have the 5th pick, he is most definitely the guy I want and he seems like hes casey's guy too.

[fredericklove]

[

This post is not from Steely:

Your posts are absurd in the PJ vs Davis thread, but here you're exactly right. When he had Larry Drew - a poor PG - playing with him, Barnes was pretty much a disaster. That's because he showed absolutely zero ability to create his own shot - much less create for anyone else. It's only since he's gotten to play with the best passing PG in the nation that he's blossomed. And with all due respect to Furb, having 2 very good inside scoring threats on your team is hardly a detriment to Barnes scoring. Their presence has certainly helped his efficiency.

I saw that thread, the 2nd page is filled with Steelys hate and not knowing any improvements that barnes has made this year. You do know that the larry drew thing is history right? That was barnes first 10 or 11 games into the freshman season where he absolutely has no idea how to put the ball on the floor, you have a larry drew who cant even dish to anyone on the team, not even knowing how to pass it to the big men in the paint cos he will just carelessly try to dribble into defenders and turning the ball over nearly every time. Thats why Barnes had tough time getting the ball in his hand to score especially when drew couldnt get him the ball, nor could barnes have any idea on how to create for himself. Last year Barnes scored alot on plays that are designed for him to get open shots at the corner spot, zeller and henson always screened for him.

THIS YEAR, Leo, if you had watch all his games, barnes 3point attempt is significantly lesser than last year, u know why? Because he learns to put the ball on the floor, UNC doesnt run that play for him anymore, they dont tell him to get wide open thru screens to score. Every game this year, Barnes will get the ball outside of the wing, then he will initiate play for himself, where he uses pick and roll via Zeller or Marshall, but mostly from Zeller, uses his p&r to help create gap and look to drive to the basket. He looks to get to the foul line more this year, to draw more contact when he drives. And yes of cos, having a marshall is always going to be good, but marshall gets most of his assists total from feeding Zeller and Henson inside, most often when he passes to Barnes, Barnes wouldnt shoot right away, he rather looks to initiate triple threat moves or using p&r. So thats why when you use Larry Drew as example, I knew this is where you are still lacking knowledge about how UNC uses Barnes this year compared to last year. And you obviously havent seen much of Barnes plays this year. So please stop embarrass yourself using misleading evidences from UNCs previous season analysis.

[gojoorange]

How good would Beal look on our roster if we moved DeMar to the 3, or with JJ at the 3? So good.

[raptor jesus]

I dig Beal, too. From what I've seen, his game is reminiscent of Eric Gordon. A little undersized, but fundamentally sound and capable from the outside.