OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread

[NinjaBro]

Let's go!!!

[NBA Sheady]

My favorite part about RGM is when someone is obviously wrong, they try to change their narrative (seemingly oblivious to the search function on RGM), then double down and claim emphatically they were correct.

I think this cultures yearning to be "right" is what really ruins discourse, but I digress.

Once someone reveals themselves as a full-blown conspiracy theorist you have to assume they have serious mental health issues.

[NBA Sheady]

Read on Twitter

If this Phase 3 trial looks good from a safety standpoint this could be a winner.

I'm very dubious about the 90% rate though. I haven't read the whole study but it's only 90% effective if their methods got the entire control group got infected.

I think they're basically taking vaccinated participants and calculating against those that got infected. My point is not everyone exposed will even get infected as I suspect is demonstrated in the control group.

Here is the actual study:

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04380701

[Tor_Raps]

Read on Twitter

This is it. They were just waiting for Trump to leave office before publicizing it lol.

[realball]

Trump hasn't left office yet.

[M3tro]

My favorite part about RGM is when someone is obviously wrong, they try to change their narrative (seemingly oblivious to the search function on RGM), then double down and claim emphatically they were correct.

I think this cultures yearning to be "right" is what really ruins discourse, but I digress.

Once someone reveals themselves as a full-blown conspiracy theorist you have to assume they have serious mental health issues.

lol.

You're an admitted former bouncer which automatically assumes you're in the realm of douchebaggery in real life.

Blanket statements are fun.

[Tor_Raps]

Trump hasn't left office yet.

Ok fine... waited for the election results before publicizing the vaccine.

[realball]

Trump hasn't left office yet.

Ok fine... waited for the election results before publicizing the vaccine.

They actually announced in October that they would have a vaccine ready before the end of the year.

But you're more likely to be right, this multi-billion dollar company kept this pandemic going because they want hurt Trump's feelings.

[Tor_Raps]

Trump hasn't left office yet.

Ok fine... waited for the election results before publicizing the vaccine.

They actually announced in October that they would have a vaccine ready before the end of the year.

But you're more likely to be right, this multi-billion dollar company kept this pandemic going because they want hurt Trump's feelings.

I'm not even saying I'm 100% right with that statement. Just pointing out the coincidence.

Also, it wouldn't be about hurting his feelings, it would be about helping his reelection efforts. Trump would be perceived different about the Covid situation if there were published results about a vaccine actually coming. He would use that to his benefit whereas when he mentioned that there are vaccines almost ready, people assumed he's lying like he typically does.

There have been many blanket statements about a vaccine coming soon. It is totally different when a company actually publishes their findings that lead to their stock jumping a zillion percent.

[Kevin Willis]

Ok fine... waited for the election results before publicizing the vaccine.

They actually announced in October that they would have a vaccine ready before the end of the year.

But you're more likely to be right, this multi-billion dollar company kept this pandemic going because they want hurt Trump's feelings.

I'm not even saying I'm 100% right with that statement. Just pointing out the coincidence.

Also, it wouldn't be about hurting his feelings, it would be about helping his reelection efforts. Trump would be perceived different about the Covid situation if there were published results about a vaccine actually coming. He would use that to his benefit whereas when he mentioned that there are vaccines almost ready, people assumed he's lying like he typically does.

There have been many blanket statements about a vaccine coming soon. It is totally different when a company actually publishes their findings that lead to their stock jumping a zillion percent.

That's not what happened. I saw an interview with the CEO of Pfizer. They were ready to release results in October but there were not enough people infected. So the next scheduled day was this Sunday. This time they got their results which were outstanding. Go to 15:30.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

[NinjaBro]

LET'S GET NAKED!!!!!

[realball]

Ok fine... waited for the election results before publicizing the vaccine.

They actually announced in October that they would have a vaccine ready before the end of the year.

But you're more likely to be right, this multi-billion dollar company kept this pandemic going because they want hurt Trump's feelings.

I'm not even saying I'm 100% right with that statement. Just pointing out the coincidence.

Also, it wouldn't be about hurting his feelings, it would be about helping his reelection efforts. Trump would be perceived different about the Covid situation if there were published results about a vaccine actually coming. He would use that to his benefit whereas when he mentioned that there are vaccines almost ready, people assumed he's lying like he typically does.

There have been many blanket statements about a vaccine coming soon. It is totally different when a company actually publishes their findings that lead to their stock jumping a zillion percent.

Yes, totally, Pfizer, a company that benefits from Trump's tax cuts, definitely wanted to hurt his re-election chances.

That makes way more sense than the fact they announced the results once they were available. When will these multi-billion dollar corporations stop helping Democrats?

[GQStylin]

it is great that hospitalizations are not rising as fast as cases but I am not sure exactly what you're arguing for. Even more daily cases?

I'm arguing that simply being scared because of the rising number of cases IS DUMB. Its WHO is getting infected that's the most important. This is why the hundreds of new cases being added daily isn't translating to hundreds of more hospitalizations.

Here are some facts for you and anyone else who wants to know the truth:

https://www.fao-on.org/en/Blog/Publications/health-2020

If you go Figure 4-2, it shows that as an emergency measure the Ontario government made available 10,255 beds as well as 2,077 critical care beds by April 14 for covid patients. Now go to here:

https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data

And go to the hospitalization and ICU section and it shows that the highest number of covid patients in Ontario hospitals at any one time was a little over 1,000 between May 5-14. After that the number dropped back below 1,000 patients concurrently. So even at the peak of the virus in the first wave Ontario barely used 10% of available capacity for covid patients both in regular and ICU beds.

So next the argument is the shutdown helped keep hospital numbers low and not have it overwhelm our system. Well go back to the same table above to Active and hospitalized cases and you'll see that between May 5-14 when hospitals had the most covid patients, the number of people with comfirmed cases of covid were already going down from a high of 5,600 at the end of April to around 4,000.

Now go look at the current number of infected people in November and how many hospital cases are and you'll see that right now we're up to 9,500 active cases and only 367 people in the hospital. That's right we have more than 5,000 more cases right now and yet we still have less than half the number of people in hospital than at the peak of the first wave.

Why do you think that is? Well because in the first wave many more elderly and sick were getting infected and were dying and/or needing hospital care while in the current increase in cases its mostly among the more healthy population of Ontario which is why we're not seeing a corresponding huge increase in hospital cases.

This goes back to what I've been saying all along, that if the government didn't waste their time trying to stop the spread and rather spent their time and resources in isolating and taking care of the elderly and sick, we could've went on with little to no shutdown necessary while saving possibly hundreds if not thousands of lives by taking early action and preventing the virus from spreading to long term care facilities where most of the deaths occurred.

Instead our stupid politicians and medical experts allowed the virus run wild among the most vulnerable people because they were afraid that healthy people would get infected which the data has shown repeatedly largely doesn't matter and in doing so thousands died. On the otherhand there were some LTC facilities that took early action before the government told them to and they experienced few infections and little to no deaths in their facilities. That's something the government and our experts should've done from the beginning, but failed to do so because they wasted valuable time trying to stop the spread.

[RapsFan2000]

New restrictions for Peel Region (Brampton/Mississauga) in Ontario, finally. I have seen people throwing wedding functions and gatherings and continuing to hangout with a group of friends at bars or houses. Here's a link below for the new restrictions as they've surpassed the "red category".

https://peelregion.ca/news/archiveitem.asp?year=2020&month=10&day=7&file=2020107.xml

I have seen people partying in cities like Brampton & Mississauga and on Halloween, a nightclub in Mississauga Ontario (&Company Resto Bar or known as &co.) threw a Halloween Party inside. Not sure where the police was or how it happened. The Mayor of Mississauga barely took any action and the owners of this club took down all their posts on their social media & website. It's being investigated further and hopefully they do get punished. I believe Police is waiting for witnesses to come out. Here's a link for that.

https://www.insauga.com/mississauga-mayor-bonnie-crombie-calls-out-nightclub-for-having-halloween-party

*Not sure if this was already posted, if so my bad. Hope everyone is well, tough times but we'll get through it. LETS GO RAPTORS!

[Local_NG_Idiot]

it is great that hospitalizations are not rising as fast as cases but I am not sure exactly what you're arguing for. Even more daily cases?

I'm arguing that simply being scared because of the rising number of cases IS DUMB. Its WHO is getting infected that's the most important. This is why the hundreds of new cases being added daily isn't translating to hundreds of more hospitalizations.

Here are some facts for you and anyone else who wants to know the truth:

https://www.fao-on.org/en/Blog/Publications/health-2020

If you go Figure 4-2, it shows that as an emergency measure the Ontario government made available 10,255 beds as well as 2,077 critical care beds by April 14 for covid patients. Now go to here:

https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data

And go to the hospitalization and ICU section and it shows that the highest number of covid patients in Ontario hospitals at any one time was a little over 1,000 between May 5-14. After that the number dropped back below 1,000 patients concurrently. So even at the peak of the virus in the first wave Ontario barely used 10% of available capacity for covid patients both in regular and ICU beds.

So next the argument is the shutdown helped keep hospital numbers low and not have it overwhelm our system. Well go back to the same table above to Active and hospitalized cases and you'll see that between May 5-14 when hospitals had the most covid patients, the number of people with comfirmed cases of covid were already going down from a high of 5,600 at the end of April to around 4,000.

Now go look at the current number of infected people in November and how many hospital cases are and you'll see that right now we're up to 9,500 active cases and only 367 people in the hospital. That's right we have more than 5,000 more cases right now and yet we still have less than half the number of people in hospital than at the peak of the first wave.

Why do you think that is? Well because in the first wave many more elderly and sick were getting infected and were dying and/or needing hospital care while in the current increase in cases its mostly among the more healthy population of Ontario which is why we're not seeing a corresponding huge increase in hospital cases.

This goes back to what I've been saying all along, that if the government didn't waste their time trying to stop the spread and rather spent their time and resources in isolating and taking care of the elderly and sick, we could've went on with little to no shutdown necessary while saving possibly hundreds if not thousands of lives by taking early action and preventing the virus from spreading to long term care facilities where most of the deaths occurred.

Instead our stupid politicians and medical experts allowed the virus run wild among the most vulnerable people because they were afraid that healthy people would get infected which the data has shown repeatedly largely doesn't matter and in doing so thousands died. On the otherhand there were some LTC facilities that took early action before the government told them to and they experienced few infections and little to no deaths in their facilities. That's something the government and our experts should've done from the beginning, but failed to do so because they wasted valuable time trying to stop the spread.

You obviously don't work in health care and you have no idea what you are talking about. You are making some egregious errors here throughout. If what you were stating is true and there is this massive amount of excess beds, please explain this:

https://www.toronto.com/news-story/10240818--there-s-a-bed-available-north-york-general-upping-patient-capacity/

The hospital will add 42 total patient beds. This includes 40 hospital beds and two critical care beds. The additional beds will help alleviate the hospital’s capacity pressures and reduce wait times.

Don Valley North MPP Vincent Ke, in whose riding the hospital is located, said in a news release the new beds will help the hospital respond to the COVID-19 pandemic.

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/ontario-government-announces-more-testing-hospital-capacity-for-peel-region-as-new-covid-19-cases-spike-1.5180798

Another $42 million will go to the procurement of up to 234 new beds at three Peel Region hospitals to free up capacity, which is welcome news to the local William Osler Health System and Trillium Health Partners, both of which are at capacity.

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/it-s-very-difficult-to-tell-people-we-are-prioritizing-indoor-dining-over-taking-out-their-cancers-ontario-doctor-says-1.5180533

TORONTO -- An Ontario cancer surgeon is sounding the alarm over hospital capacity, warning that the province’s record high COVID-19 case count has placed the healthcare system at a “tipping point” and relaxed provincial restrictions could once again lead to overwhelmed emergency rooms.

[NBA Sheady]

My favorite part about RGM is when someone is obviously wrong, they try to change their narrative (seemingly oblivious to the search function on RGM), then double down and claim emphatically they were correct.

I think this cultures yearning to be "right" is what really ruins discourse, but I digress.

Once someone reveals themselves as a full-blown conspiracy theorist you have to assume they have serious mental health issues.

lol.

You're an admitted former bouncer which automatically assumes you're in the realm of douchebaggery in real life.

Blanket statements are fun.

I really miss the days this place had an actual ignore feature.

[NBA Sheady]

it is great that hospitalizations are not rising as fast as cases but I am not sure exactly what you're arguing for. Even more daily cases?

I'm arguing that simply being scared because of the rising number of cases IS DUMB. Its WHO is getting infected that's the most important. This is why the hundreds of new cases being added daily isn't translating to hundreds of more hospitalizations.

Here are some facts for you and anyone else who wants to know the truth:

https://www.fao-on.org/en/Blog/Publications/health-2020

If you go Figure 4-2, it shows that as an emergency measure the Ontario government made available 10,255 beds as well as 2,077 critical care beds by April 14 for covid patients. Now go to here:

https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data

And go to the hospitalization and ICU section and it shows that the highest number of covid patients in Ontario hospitals at any one time was a little over 1,000 between May 5-14. After that the number dropped back below 1,000 patients concurrently. So even at the peak of the virus in the first wave Ontario barely used 10% of available capacity for covid patients both in regular and ICU beds.

So next the argument is the shutdown helped keep hospital numbers low and not have it overwhelm our system. Well go back to the same table above to Active and hospitalized cases and you'll see that between May 5-14 when hospitals had the most covid patients, the number of people with comfirmed cases of covid were already going down from a high of 5,600 at the end of April to around 4,000.

Now go look at the current number of infected people in November and how many hospital cases are and you'll see that right now we're up to 9,500 active cases and only 367 people in the hospital. That's right we have more than 5,000 more cases right now and yet we still have less than half the number of people in hospital than at the peak of the first wave.

Why do you think that is? Well because in the first wave many more elderly and sick were getting infected and were dying and/or needing hospital care while in the current increase in cases its mostly among the more healthy population of Ontario which is why we're not seeing a corresponding huge increase in hospital cases.

This goes back to what I've been saying all along, that if the government didn't waste their time trying to stop the spread and rather spent their time and resources in isolating and taking care of the elderly and sick, we could've went on with little to no shutdown necessary while saving possibly hundreds if not thousands of lives by taking early action and preventing the virus from spreading to long term care facilities where most of the deaths occurred.

Instead our stupid politicians and medical experts allowed the virus run wild among the most vulnerable people because they were afraid that healthy people would get infected which the data has shown repeatedly largely doesn't matter and in doing so thousands died. On the otherhand there were some LTC facilities that took early action before the government told them to and they experienced few infections and little to no deaths in their facilities. That's something the government and our experts should've done from the beginning, but failed to do so because they wasted valuable time trying to stop the spread.

There is a ton of logic in your argument if this disease didn't have so many long term side effects. This is not merely about death as you've made it out to be.

There is a long list of long term side effects of this disease. If we let it run wild we're ruining many lives young and old.

[GQStylin]

You obviously don't work in health care and you have no idea what you are talking about. You are making some egregious errors here throughout. If what you were stating is true and there is this massive amount of excess beds, please explain this:

Did you not click on the first government link in my last post? It literally showed that in a matter of a few weeks between cancelling surgeries and taking other measures, by April 14 they were able to open up 10,000+ BEDS for virus patients. In other words in an emergency WE DO have plenty of capacity for covid patients even though at our very peak we used only a fraction of that capacity.

Sure that capacity might not be permanent, but then most virus patients don't require weeks and months to recover and in an emergency situation if the need arose we would have no problems in accomodating all those patients who again never materialized because all our 'experts' grossly overestimated how many covid infected people would get sick enough to require going to the hospital. Now they're just doubling down on their stupidity in addition to trying to exploit the situation by making things sound dire to get more funding the same as the teacher's union was doing with students coming back to school during the pandemic.

The experts that we're suppose to trust have been wrong time and again between saying masks weren't necessary or useful to doing a complete 180 and now recommending we wear them as much as possible, to estimating that we would have up to 100,000 deaths in Ontario if we did nothing to stop the spread of the virus, to now constantly saying a crisis of epic proportions is always just around the corner if we don't neverendingly stay vigilant and afraid of the virus even as the data doesn't support their opinions. So yeah excuse me if I don't believe what our so called experts have to say when they've effed things up from the beginning and were wrong so many times.

[GQStylin]

There is a ton of logic in your argument if this disease didn't have so many long term side effects. This is not merely about death as you've made it out to be.

There is a long list of long term side effects of this disease. If we let it run wild we're ruining many lives young and old.

Yes some people have experienced side effects even after recovering from the virus, but that number is VERY SMALL. We've had almost 270,000 Canadians be confirmed to have been infected and almost 51 million cases worldwide. If the number of people suffering from side effects was huge like even 10-20%, don't you think we would've heard about it by now? Of course we would've, but the fact is that that isn't the case which is why we only hear of isolated cases of people suffering side effects even after recovery.

I mean seriously you telling me that if 50%+ Canadians who recovered were reporting other issues this wouldn't be a neverending front page news story? Cmon now. And all this doesn't even include all the uncomfirmed cases of people having the virus, but never knowing about it because they had little to no symptoms which could be hundreds of thousands of more people.

[Local_NG_Idiot]

You obviously don't work in health care and you have no idea what you are talking about. You are making some egregious errors here throughout. If what you were stating is true and there is this massive amount of excess beds, please explain this:

Did you not click on the first government link in my last post? It literally showed that in a matter of a few weeks between cancelling surgeries and taking other measures, by April 14 they were able to open up 10,000+ BEDS for virus patients. In other words in an emergency WE DO have plenty of capacity for covid patients even though at our very peak we used only a fraction of that capacity.

wrong. Health care workers and the Canadian public has been critical with the early practice of delaying/ignoring other Canadian health care needs and how that was handled early on. This was a hindsight issue though as we knew very little with regards to Covid. Now you make the case that mistake should be repeated if the situation were to arise. Just asinine logic and shows how little you know or care about those who require health care services.

Sure that capacity might not be permanent, but then most virus patients don't require weeks and months to recover and in an emergency situation if the need arose we would have no problems in accomodating all those patients who again never materialized because all our 'experts' grossly overestimated how many covid infected people would get sick enough to require going to the hospital. Now they're just doubling down on their stupidity in addition to trying to exploit the situation by making things sound dire to get more funding the same as the teacher's union was doing with students coming back to school during the pandemic.

oh **** off with this garbage 'exploiting the situation for more funding', you have ZERO clue what you are talking about.

So the premise of your argument here is: Hey, let everyone just do whatever they want and when hospitals fill up, let the doctors and health care execs decide who they aren't going to treat. That's what you are proposing here right? No new beds, but if they fill up, well then,.... put out that fire after it's started and watch more people suffer unnecessarily because of it.

you really have zero knowledge on this subject and your own proposed solutions would actually put more people in harms way for absolutely no reason other than so you can go back to your pre-2020 habits.