LTU NT and JV at the 2015 European Championship

lobosloboslobos · Post #1101 » by **lobosloboslobos** » Sat Sep 19, 2015 1:17 pm

I think the fact Jonas is clunky and inelegant down low fools people into thinking he is not especially good. Yes he looks like a neanderthal in the post but the numbers don't lie. He has weaknesses for sure, but if he were a super athletic and stylish brother with the exact same numbers people would be losing their minds over him. He's not, but that doesn't mean the points don't count every bit as much as if he were. I'm not saying that to make a big deal about it just that its normal to be amazed by grace and style, and I think it's obvious jonas doesn't have much of that. But the guy can score with astonishing efficiency and consistency. I really believe the best thing the Raps could do is to give him a steady 15 FGA a game and let him figure out how to handle the double teams and polish other aspects of his offense so he can become a true offensive juggernaut and not just a nice piece as he is being treated now.

cammac · Post #1102 » by **cammac** » Sat Sep 19, 2015 3:28 pm

lobosloboslobos wrote:I think the fact Jonas is clunky and inelegant down low fools people into thinking he is not especially good. Yes he looks like a neanderthal in the post but the numbers don't lie. He has weaknesses for sure, but if he were a super athletic and stylish brother with the exact same numbers people would be losing their minds over him. He's not, but that doesn't mean the points don't count every bit as much as if he were. I'm not saying that to make a big deal about it just that its normal to be amazed by grace and style, and I think it's obvious jonas doesn't have much of that. But the guy can score with astonishing efficiency and consistency. I really believe the best thing the Raps could do is to give him a steady 15 FGA a game and let him figure out how to handle the double teams and polish other aspects of his offense so he can become a true offensive juggernaut and not just a nice piece as he is being treated now.

Jonas is without a doubt an extremely proficient scoring C anywhere in the world and during his play he has showed excellent defense as a rim protector, help, man to man and pick & roll. His rebounding has always been excellent and as a shot blocker he has improved.

But to give him 15 FGA isn't practical lets assume that he is playing 32 minutes a game I think 12 FGA would be the maximum he will see not including 4 to 4.5 FTA per game. I believe that Jonas can be more efficient than he was last year @ 0-3,3-10, 10-16. You are right that Jonas is far from elegant but he is obviously in better shape than last and he does have the eye of the tiger mentality.

It is up to Casey and his staff to develop a offense where he can be more utilized offensively. The new roster and personal development will help his defensive production.

kieferli · Post #1103 » by **kieferli** » Sat Sep 19, 2015 4:44 pm

Where can I see this game ?

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

hsb · Post #1104 » by **hsb** » Sat Sep 19, 2015 4:46 pm

Tony M wrote:
hsb wrote:Next game is an exhibition in some respects so I consider JV's Eurobasket done for me and what an awesome tournament it was for him.

I'm not sure if you understand what an Eurobasket title means for a country of 3 millions. That's the only trophy we have a realistic shot at winning consistently.

It takes two to tango...

Even if the game is entertaining and generally hard fought, I wont know if both teams played with the same focus, energy, coaching and execution as in the semi-finals. So I'm just going to watch it for the joy of the game, rather than see things with a more critical lens.

hsb · Post #1105 » by **hsb** » Sat Sep 19, 2015 5:19 pm

slothrop8 wrote:
hsb wrote:Next game is an exhibition in some respects so I consider JV's Eurobasket done for me and what an awesome tournament it was for him.

Honestly, for a Raptor fan, can you ask for anything more? He dominated, has clearly improved quickness and was a beast on both ends. You have to be excited for next year.

It's amazing how when given minutes and shots he dominates as he has at every level pretty much his entire career. Hopefully, the Raptors coaches and players can finally realize what they have on their hands here. I'm not sure I should be optimistic that will actually happen - but I'm hoping...

You should be. All signs point to the obvious, that he will be a feature player this year. For example, where do you think Amir's PNR are going to go? Anyways, I might make a write up about it but I'll probably just wait and see how the season shakes up.

And to some of the very few posters that are still stuck in the mud with absurd criticism. JV is one of the best post-scorers in the world. He's not good, he's not great, he is currently one of the best to score in the post in the world. Give it a break...

JLTV7 · Post #1106 » by **JLTV7** » Sat Sep 19, 2015 5:24 pm

kieferli wrote:Where can I see this game ?

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

If you're talking about the Serbia Lithuania game just go to YouTube and search for it, someone uploaded it but I'm on my phone so it's a pain.

Clementine9 · Post #1107 » by **Clementine9** » Sat Sep 19, 2015 5:44 pm

JLTV7 wrote:
kieferli wrote:Where can I see this game ?

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

If you're talking about the Serbia Lithuania game just go to YouTube and search for it, someone uploaded it but I'm on my phone so it's a pain.

I don't think anyone uploaded it. I can't find it but if someone does can you please post the link on here? Thanks!

JV4MVP · Post #1108 » by **JV4MVP** » Sat Sep 19, 2015 6:01 pm

Clementine9 wrote:
JLTV7 wrote:
kieferli wrote:Where can I see this game ?

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

If you're talking about the Serbia Lithuania game just go to YouTube and search for it, someone uploaded it but I'm on my phone so it's a pain.

I don't think anyone uploaded it. I can't find it but if someone does can you please post the link on here? Thanks!

YouTube LenkasTV Lietuva. It's not uploaded yet but user eventually uploads every game.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

JLTV7 · Post #1109 » by **JLTV7** » Sat Sep 19, 2015 6:43 pm

Clementine9 wrote:
JLTV7 wrote:
kieferli wrote:Where can I see this game ?

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

If you're talking about the Serbia Lithuania game just go to YouTube and search for it, someone uploaded it but I'm on my phone so it's a pain.

I don't think anyone uploaded it. I can't find it but if someone does can you please post the link on here? Thanks!

What about this? I can't see the upload date on my phone but should be it.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dZpWkIwHb8g

Clementine9 · Post #1110 » by **Clementine9** » Sat Sep 19, 2015 7:18 pm

JLTV7 wrote:
Clementine9 wrote:
JLTV7 wrote:

If you're talking about the Serbia Lithuania game just go to YouTube and search for it, someone uploaded it but I'm on my phone so it's a pain.

I don't think anyone uploaded it. I can't find it but if someone does can you please post the link on here? Thanks!

What about this? I can't see the upload date on my phone but should be it.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dZpWkIwHb8g

Yup, that works! Thanks!

Clementine9 · Post #1111 » by **Clementine9** » Sat Sep 19, 2015 7:58 pm

**** it's so much better watching the Lithuanians and some other European teams running the pick and roll.

Clementine9 · Post #1112 » by **Clementine9** » Sat Sep 19, 2015 8:35 pm

Whoa reffing in the 4th quarter of this Lithuania-Serbia game was a little crazy.

Valanciunas is hedging a little better (still not great) but his timing is off for recovering to his man. Some good signs though.

raptor jesus · Post #1113 » by **raptor jesus** » Sat Sep 19, 2015 8:54 pm

Clementine9 wrote:**** it's so much better watching the Lithuanians and some other European teams running the pick and roll.

As opposed to what, NBA teams?

Edit: Or perhaps you mean other international teams like Canada - just curious.

Clementine9 · Post #1114 » by **Clementine9** » Sat Sep 19, 2015 9:45 pm

raptor jesus wrote:
Clementine9 wrote:**** it's so much better watching the Lithuanians and some other European teams running the pick and roll.

As opposed to what, NBA teams?

Edit: Or perhaps you mean other international teams like Canada - just curious.

Raptors.

raptor jesus · Post #1115 » by **raptor jesus** » Sat Sep 19, 2015 9:57 pm

Clementine9 wrote:
raptor jesus wrote:
Clementine9 wrote:**** it's so much better watching the Lithuanians and some other European teams running the pick and roll.

As opposed to what, NBA teams?

Edit: Or perhaps you mean other international teams like Canada - just curious.

Raptors.

Scoring via the pick and roll in international play isn't comparable to the NBA imo. Defences seem to give up the middle more often, and are equipped with inferior athletes. JV rumbling down the lane for a dunk in international play would probably result in a charge in the NBA.

Clementine9 · Post #1116 » by **Clementine9** » Sat Sep 19, 2015 10:13 pm

raptor jesus wrote:
Clementine9 wrote:
raptor jesus wrote:
As opposed to what, NBA teams?

Edit: Or perhaps you mean other international teams like Canada - just curious.

Raptors.

Scoring via the pick and roll in international play isn't comparable to the NBA imo. Defences seem to give up the middle more often, and are equipped with inferior athletes. JV rumbling down the lane for a dunk in international play would probably result in a charge in the NBA.

Nah, none of the Raptors have any ability to pass the ball well. There is zero creativity involved and they're timid about it. Plenty of players and teams in the NBA can pass the ball much better in and outside of the PnR scenario.

Entry passes are thrown much better too. When JV has his man sealed, they get it to him, when he doesn't, they don't. The Raptors sit there and hesitate, hesitate, hesitate, and half the time JV is walking out to get the **** ball. In these tournament games I've seen, JV has got the ball in great position. He's also had those "Raptors" moments when he isn't able to seal his man well, but a pretty good percentage of the time JV has to get the ball far away from the key with the Raptors it's because none of the wings can throw an entry pass. Not always but it definitely happens. You don't realize that entry passes are a skill until you watch players who can properly do it. I've always loved Wiggins's ability to do it.

kieferli · Post #1117 » by **kieferli** » Sun Sep 20, 2015 12:16 am

JLTV7 wrote:
kieferli wrote:Where can I see this game ?

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

If you're talking about the Serbia Lithuania game just go to YouTube and search for it, someone uploaded it but I'm on my phone so it's a pain.

I mean tonight game are they showing on TV ?

JLTV7 · Post #1118 » by **JLTV7** » Sun Sep 20, 2015 12:21 am

kieferli wrote:
JLTV7 wrote:
kieferli wrote:Where can I see this game ?

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

If you're talking about the Serbia Lithuania game just go to YouTube and search for it, someone uploaded it but I'm on my phone so it's a pain.

I mean tonight game are they showing on TV ?

The final is tomorrow, and I'm not sure if it's on TV - maybe someone else who knows will chime in. I've been finding decent streams on google.

jonny three time · Post #1119 » by **jonny three time** » Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:50 am

I was one of the first people saying that turning him into a post up scorer rather than a roll guy was the right move. He's not athletic enough to be a young Dwight or Chandler, or a current Deandre, Drummond. He also would've needed to stay skinny which definitely would've hurt his rebounding as he's not long enough to be a Whiteside/Gobert type rebounder.

His physical skills have always made him look like a cross between prime Nene and prime Gasol, not as explosive as Nene, not as slick or smart as Gasol, but a nice blend of both with a bigger frame than either. Maybe he didn't take proper care of himself when bulking, maybe the team rushed him too much the last couple summers to do his bulking, maybe having to play for Lithuania every single summer screwed up his bulking schedule not allowing him enough months in a row to do it right.

Regardless of the exact path they took with him, it was the right vision for his game. Post up as his go-to. PnR when he has a quality passer running it and proper spacing, then occasionally face ups when the defense is cheating or theres a matchup he can exploit. When a center has the potential to be that kind of player, you have to try to make him one, even if there's bumps in the road along the way.

realball · Post #1120 » by **realball** » Sun Sep 20, 2015 7:13 am

raptor jesus wrote:
Clementine9 wrote:
raptor jesus wrote:
As opposed to what, NBA teams?

Edit: Or perhaps you mean other international teams like Canada - just curious.

Raptors.

Scoring via the pick and roll in international play isn't comparable to the NBA imo. Defences seem to give up the middle more often, and are equipped with inferior athletes. JV rumbling down the lane for a dunk in international play would probably result in a charge in the NBA.

There's no denying that our guards are piss poor at making pockets passes. There are lots of teams in the NBA that run the PnR well. Jose Calderon used to be amazing at it. Lowry and Derozan are horrible at finding the roll man.