2023 Draft Discussion Part 4

[BoyzNTheHood]

I’m not going to be the one to hate on Masai, but we can discuss previous draft failures if you want. And we’re not going to pigeonhole ourselves to NCAA prospects alone because that fits your false narratives. We’re going to discuss the body of work.

In 2011 the Nuggets passed on Jimmy Butler (2x) for Kenneth Faried and Jordan Hamilton. They also passed on Isaiah Thomas for Chu Maduabum

In 2012 Denver passes on Khris Middleton and Will Barton for Quincy Miller.

Masai passed on Capela (1x), Grant (2x), Jokic (2x), Dinwiddie (2x) in 2014 to pick Bruno and Deandre Daniels

He took a guy with Giannis style potential who turned into a bust just like GG Jackson could be. Bruno just wasn’t in the NCAA so he doesn’t fit your narrative.

In 2020 he passed on Bane to pick Flynn

2021 is still TBD but there are those who would argue for Giddey, Wagner, and Sengun’s long term potential over Scottie

In 2022 we traded down from 20 for Thad Young costing us the likes of Kessler for Koloko.

The other years we have been good and have had low picks. Therefore, no good prospects were passed on.

Masai in Denver is not Masai in Toronto. Dan Tolzman was their video scout in Denver, and he was promoted to running their draft in Toronto. First draft was a total bust as Leweike demanded Masai make a splash leading to Bruno. Fully concede that he missed Jokic. After that they added a Gleague team and implemented IBM Watson and have had one of the strongest records out of anyone in the league.

Bane isn't a superstar and he won't be a superstar. Giddey, Wagner and Sengun do not look like superstars. Not sure why they had long-term potential that Scottie didn't.

FOH with that Kessler bull****. You're not serious here, just emotional. He didn't pass on Kessler. He traded that pick months prior to knowing where he would pick. And we don't know if Kessler will be a superstar.

Now let's figure out why you think GG Jackson has superstar potential? Is it because he was a top ranked high school player? Because we know for a fact that top high school rankings very rarely are accurate in terms of predicting NBA stars let along NBA superstars.

Masai in Denver is the same Masai we know now. Masai in Denver traded Carmelo Anthony to the ONE team he wanted to go to and absolutely hoodwinked them. Masai in Denver is why we wanted Masai so badly back in Toronto.

Second of all, relax. Like I said, I’m not going to pigeonhole things into some superstars only bull crap you want to talk about. It’s about getting good prospects at the end of the day. HOWEVER, unless you hit big on prospects like he did in 2016 you’re going to struggle to win big. We all know most stars don’t want to sign here, so you have to try and get more than role players in the draft.

Once again, I’m not saying that Giddey, Wagner and Sengun are better than Scottie. I’m saying it’s still up for debate and their careers have a long way to go. It has not been determined that Scottie is the best of the bunch.

GG CLEARLY has superstar potential. Whether he reaches it seems less likely by the day, but it doesn’t mean that his potential isn’t massive. Any fool can see it. He’s basically a 6’9” player with guard skills. If we want to brag about our ability to develop guys, why wouldn’t we want to develop a guy with so much potential?

[Yallbecrazy]

Is it the 1.1 assists or the 3.4 TOs per 40 that are an indicator of his guard skills?

[Psubs]

It's not just his defense though, it's his passing that was terrible too. I get that he's the most gifted scorer in this class, but he seems like the one dimensional scorer that most fan bases hate.

Yeah, the lack of passing is a legit knock. That said, I've seen enough flashes there to think it might come. Demar wasn't much of a passer out of college either (very similar numbers actually). Masai's been a pretty good at identifying players that work and improve. So if Brice is the pick, I'm going to assume that the FO is convinced he can round out his game, and I'd support the pick. Not my top choice, but I see the appeal and if he changes a couple changeable things, Brice has got scary potential.

Demar's passing improvement is such an incredible outlier and didn't happen until later in his career. I can't really think of anyone else that went from terrible passer in college to really good in the NBA. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's so unlikely that it shouldn't be considered as a potential outcome when evaluating him.

His passing was that of a PF or C. Maybe with better teammates he'd pass more?

[BoyzNTheHood]

Imagine thinking guard skills are all about getting assists.

[ArthurVandelay]

I’m not going to be the one to hate on Masai, but we can discuss previous draft failures if you want. And we’re not going to pigeonhole ourselves to NCAA prospects alone because that fits your false narratives. We’re going to discuss the body of work.

In 2011 the Nuggets passed on Jimmy Butler (2x) for Kenneth Faried and Jordan Hamilton. They also passed on Isaiah Thomas for Chu Maduabum

In 2012 Denver passes on Khris Middleton and Will Barton for Quincy Miller.

Masai passed on Capela (1x), Grant (2x), Jokic (2x), Dinwiddie (2x) in 2014 to pick Bruno and Deandre Daniels

He took a guy with Giannis style potential who turned into a bust just like GG Jackson could be. Bruno just wasn’t in the NCAA so he doesn’t fit your narrative.

In 2020 he passed on Bane to pick Flynn

2021 is still TBD but there are those who would argue for Giddey, Wagner, and Sengun’s long term potential over Scottie

In 2022 we traded down from 20 for Thad Young costing us the likes of Kessler for Koloko.

The other years we have been good and have had low picks. Therefore, no good prospects were passed on.

Masai in Denver is not Masai in Toronto. Dan Tolzman was their video scout in Denver, and he was promoted to running their draft in Toronto. First draft was a total bust as Leweike demanded Masai make a splash leading to Bruno. Fully concede that he missed Jokic. After that they added a Gleague team and implemented IBM Watson and have had one of the strongest records out of anyone in the league.

Bane isn't a superstar and he won't be a superstar. Giddey, Wagner and Sengun do not look like superstars. Not sure why they had long-term potential that Scottie didn't.

FOH with that Kessler bull****. You're not serious here, just emotional. He didn't pass on Kessler. He traded that pick months prior to knowing where he would pick. And we don't know if Kessler will be a superstar.

Now let's figure out why you think GG Jackson has superstar potential? Is it because he was a top ranked high school player? Because we know for a fact that top high school rankings very rarely are accurate in terms of predicting NBA stars let along NBA superstars.

Should we hope Houston wins the lottery so Sengun or Jabari becomes available via trade?

Not crazy about Jabari, but if he could be had for really cheap then why not?

Eason

[Clutch0z24]

It's not just his defense though, it's his passing that was terrible too. I get that he's the most gifted scorer in this class, but he seems like the one dimensional scorer that most fan bases hate.

Yeah, the lack of passing is a legit knock. That said, I've seen enough flashes there to think it might come. Demar wasn't much of a passer out of college either (very similar numbers actually). Masai's been a pretty good at identifying players that work and improve. So if Brice is the pick, I'm going to assume that the FO is convinced he can round out his game, and I'd support the pick. Not my top choice, but I see the appeal and if he changes a couple changeable things, Brice has got scary potential.

Demar's passing improvement is such an incredible outlier and didn't happen until later in his career. I can't really think of anyone else that went from terrible passer in college to really good in the NBA. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's so unlikely that it shouldn't be considered as a potential outcome when evaluating him.

If we draft Brice we are not drafting him to be a ball handler/passer anyways....If he improves in that department awesome....But we would be drafting him for his 3 level scoring ability and possibly be one of the if not the best offensive players to come out of this draft class...

Defense is effort and if Raptors feel like they can develop him to be a decent defensive player with his offensive game its a no brainer pick....Brice is a SG at the end of the day...We still need a good PG on the team anyways...At 13 i don't see many elite PGs in this class...

[grant101]

Is it the 1.1 assists or the 3.4 TOs per 40 that are an indicator of his guard skills?

like I said, from the handful of OSU games I watched I noticed some occasional pretty high-level reads. Could they be just flashes in the pan - sure - but it's worth doing your homework when you're talking about such a prolific offensive player.

[mademan]

ya ive jumped around a bit, but im all aboard the Hawkins train now.

Watch on YouTube

An offensive minded coach can do some great things with Scottie-Hawkins moving forward.

[Yallbecrazy]

Is it the 1.1 assists or the 3.4 TOs per 40 that are an indicator of his guard skills?

like I said, from the handful of OSU games I watched I noticed some occasional pretty high-level reads. Could they be just flashes in the pan - sure - but it's worth doing your homework when you're talking about such a prolific offensive player.

That was referring to GG. Brice was a little better at 1.9 and 3.3 per 40. At least Brice has one thing he's really good at, which is scoring. The warts are really large and make me not want to draft him in the top 13, maybe closer to top 20. I don't hate Brice though and wouldn't be opposed to drafting him if Masai likes him. I would completely lose faith in Masai for taking GG, NSJ, or JHS.

GG has all the warts of Brice, even larger ones and has more warts where Brice has strengths.

Pierce was at 2.2/2.8 per game for his 3 year college career.

[BoyzNTheHood]

ya ive jumped around a bit, but im all aboard the Hawkins train now.

Watch on YouTube

An offensive minded coach can do some great things with Scottie-Hawkins moving forward.

Hawkins off ball movement with Scottie, Jak, and Pascals passing could be amazingly complimentary.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Masai in Denver is the same Masai we know now. Masai in Denver traded Carmelo Anthony to the ONE team he wanted to go to and absolutely hoodwinked them. Masai in Denver is why we wanted Masai so badly back in Toronto.

We're just talking about the draft here. He hasn't made a stupid Quincy Miller-like selection in Toronto.

Second of all, relax. Like I said, I’m not going to pigeonhole things into some superstars only bull crap you want to talk about. It’s about getting good prospects at the end of the day. HOWEVER, unless you hit big on prospects like he did in 2016 you’re going to struggle to win big. We all know most stars don’t want to sign here, so you have to try and get more than role players in the draft.

You literally implied they had been doing the draft wrong. This is a reversal.

Once again, I’m not saying that Giddey, Wagner and Sengun are better than Scottie. I’m saying it’s still up for debate and their careers have a long way to go. It has not been determined that Scottie is the best of the bunch.

Of course, but we're talking about this in the context of GG Jackson and his perceived superstar potential.

GG CLEARLY has superstar potential. Whether he reaches it seems less likely by the day, but it doesn’t mean that his potential isn’t massive. Any fool can see it. He’s basically a 6’9” player with guard skills. If we want to brag about our ability to develop guys, why wouldn’t we want to develop a guy with so much potential?

There's busts like this every year. There are no superstars or all-stars that had a negative BPM in college. Superstars end up looking like a lot of things (Jokic, Doncic, Tatum, Steph, Durant). They were all really damned good at the previous level.

[BoyzNTheHood]

Masai in Denver is the same Masai we know now. Masai in Denver traded Carmelo Anthony to the ONE team he wanted to go to and absolutely hoodwinked them. Masai in Denver is why we wanted Masai so badly back in Toronto.

We're just talking about the draft here. He hasn't made a stupid Quincy Miller-like selection in Toronto.

Second of all, relax. Like I said, I’m not going to pigeonhole things into some superstars only bull crap you want to talk about. It’s about getting good prospects at the end of the day. HOWEVER, unless you hit big on prospects like he did in 2016 you’re going to struggle to win big. We all know most stars don’t want to sign here, so you have to try and get more than role players in the draft.

You literally implied they had been doing the draft wrong. This is a reversal.

Once again, I’m not saying that Giddey, Wagner and Sengun are better than Scottie. I’m saying it’s still up for debate and their careers have a long way to go. It has not been determined that Scottie is the best of the bunch.

Of course, but we're talking about this in the context of GG Jackson and his perceived superstar potential.

GG CLEARLY has superstar potential. Whether he reaches it seems less likely by the day, but it doesn’t mean that his potential isn’t massive. Any fool can see it. He’s basically a 6’9” player with guard skills. If we want to brag about our ability to develop guys, why wouldn’t we want to develop a guy with so much potential?

There's busts like this every year. There are no superstars or all-stars that had a negative BPM in college. Superstars end up looking like a lot of things (Jokic, Doncic, Tatum, Steph, Durant). They were all really damned good at the previous level.

You said all this to say nothing. He took Bruno over plenty of better prospects, which was a Quincy Miller style pick. Either way, you responded on your high horse to a post about a gut feeling. There are at least 10 prospects I’d take in front of GG, and that doesn’t change because of a feeling. But if we take GG it will be because Masai loves his OBVIOUS superstar potential. And I will repeat myself again since it seems like I need to simplify everything here, GG is less and less likely to reach his potential by the day in my opinion. So, if Masai takes him that’s a positive sign about the type of off-season work GG has put in.

[Mark_83]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

aye man, if hes in shape .. he's my pick lol.

Wow, he looks like a completely different dude. If the weight loss gives him more explosiveness and vertical pop on offense, and more mobility on defense, that would be a game changer.

[OakleyDokely]

Hendricks is my favorite prospect. 19 years old, 6'9 with a 7+ wingspan. Athletic. Close to 40% from 3 on nearly 5 attempts, quality FT shooter and efficient overall with a .589 TS%. Solid rebounder. An elite rim protector and disrupter with 3.1 stocks per 40. Has the versatility to guard up and down positions. BPM of 7.9.

Needs to work on his handles and creation to get to the next level, but at worst, he's going to be an elite 3+D.

[BoyzNTheHood]

Hendricks is my favorite prospect. 19 years old, 6'9 with a 7+ wingspan. Athletic. Close to 40% from 3 on nearly 5 attempts, quality FT shooter and efficient overall with a .589 TS%. Solid rebounder. An elite rim protector and disrupter with 3.1 stocks per 40. Has the versatility to guard up and down positions. BPM of 7.9.

Needs to work on his handles and creation to get to the next level, but at worst, he's going to be an elite 3+D.

Hendricks is a guy I brought to this board early on in the year. In all likelihood, risen past our range.

[Yallbecrazy]

Hendricks is my favorite prospect. 19 years old, 6'9 with a 7+ wingspan. Athletic. Close to 40% from 3 on nearly 5 attempts, quality FT shooter and efficient overall with a .589 TS%. Solid rebounder. An elite rim protector and disrupter with 3.1 stocks per 40. Has the versatility to guard up and down positions. BPM of 7.9.

Needs to work on his handles and creation to get to the next level, but at worst, he's going to be an elite 3+D.

I like him a lot too, but his competition was mediocre. SOS of 5.09, not awful, but still mid major which is one of the only concerns I have of him.

[Landomar]

Hendricks is my favorite prospect. 19 years old, 6'9 with a 7+ wingspan. Athletic. Close to 40% from 3 on nearly 5 attempts, quality FT shooter and efficient overall with a .589 TS%. Solid rebounder. An elite rim protector and disrupter with 3.1 stocks per 40. Has the versatility to guard up and down positions. BPM of 7.9.

Needs to work on his handles and creation to get to the next level, but at worst, he's going to be an elite 3+D.

Yeah, Hendricks is great. I'd strongly consider taking him as high as 4th overall this year. Unfortunately for us, his draft stock seems to be rising quickly, and I don't think there's much chance he's still available at 13.

[mademan]

Hendricks is my favorite prospect. 19 years old, 6'9 with a 7+ wingspan. Athletic. Close to 40% from 3 on nearly 5 attempts, quality FT shooter and efficient overall with a .589 TS%. Solid rebounder. An elite rim protector and disrupter with 3.1 stocks per 40. Has the versatility to guard up and down positions. BPM of 7.9.

Needs to work on his handles and creation to get to the next level, but at worst, he's going to be an elite 3+D.

Hendricks is a guy I brought to this board early on in the year. In all likelihood, risen past our range.

Ya i can see him going as high as 4 honestly. I dont see any way he makes it past 10.

[raincityraptors]

Hendricks is my favorite prospect. 19 years old, 6'9 with a 7+ wingspan. Athletic. Close to 40% from 3 on nearly 5 attempts, quality FT shooter and efficient overall with a .589 TS%. Solid rebounder. An elite rim protector and disrupter with 3.1 stocks per 40. Has the versatility to guard up and down positions. BPM of 7.9.

Needs to work on his handles and creation to get to the next level, but at worst, he's going to be an elite 3+D.

We see things the same way.

Dallas is praying he falls to them.

He won't fall lower than that.

It's nice having Jak back but man we would have been so much better off with a worse record and higher pick.

[BoyzNTheHood]

Hendricks is my favorite prospect. 19 years old, 6'9 with a 7+ wingspan. Athletic. Close to 40% from 3 on nearly 5 attempts, quality FT shooter and efficient overall with a .589 TS%. Solid rebounder. An elite rim protector and disrupter with 3.1 stocks per 40. Has the versatility to guard up and down positions. BPM of 7.9.

Needs to work on his handles and creation to get to the next level, but at worst, he's going to be an elite 3+D.

Hendricks is a guy I brought to this board early on in the year. In all likelihood, risen past our range.

Ya i can see him going as high as 4 honestly. I dont see any way he makes it past 10.

If Dallas stays at 10 he could be the pick, although I think they should consider Lively as well.