Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 6

[Tha Cynic]

Superstars in the league right now imo:

Lebron
Steph
KD
Giannis
Luka
Jokic
Kawhi (when healthy)

That’s it, in my opinion. Five of those guys will be decrepit or out of the league by the time Barnes hits his prime. Wemby of course will leap into that superstar tier by year three if he stays healthy. So that leaves a few spots open in that top tier.

Who from the new guard will join Luka, Jokic and Wemby as superstars? Are they in the league yet? Can Barnes be one of them?

This is an issue I see with today's NBA. All the superstars are aging other than Luka. Jokic still has some years in him and seems pretty mobile for someone as big as he is, so he probably sticks there for several years.

After him, I see a lot of NBA media generated "stars" who are thriving in today's inflated offensive game. In terms of on court impact, they're no where at the level of the players above. Maybe the fact that the league is saturated with more "stars" rather than superstar will allow for teams without superstars to win more.

That's one of the reasons why I think if Barnes refines his offensive game he can get close to that list. He knows how to impact the game in multiple ways that other young players don't. The only player who doesn't impact the game that way but is still a superstar is Steph Curry. But he has a game that no one else comes close to on offense, with his ability to shoot and move off the ball.

[Spates]

Let's all overreact in a positive fashion, for a change.

Too soon to call Scottie our GROAT?

[HumbleRen]

I think people have this conception that Tatum is done growing as a player because he's been in so many playoff games already in his young career. Like the dude has 94 playoff games played already, to show how crazy that is, the Raptors organization has 124 played playoff games in its entirety.

He's only 25 and is like 2-3 years away from his prime, calling him and the Celtics a modern day Demar/Lowry is nuts lol.

[Tha Cynic]

37.3 MIN, 21.0 PPG, 8.7 REB, 6.7 AST, 3.0 BLK, 0.7 STL, .565 FG, .364 3PT, .700 FT, .625 TS, 24.6 USG

Great start for Scottie.

Great to see. We can criticize a player when he shows he needs to be criticized. I'm not sure why we're so careful to not give him praise when he's doing well

I'm noticing this with the media too. All that criticism last season and no one wants to say, hey he's looking great so far. It's a passby comment.

It's like people are in here to taper expectations and knock down any positives.

[MiamiSPX]

37.3 MIN, 21.0 PPG, 8.7 REB, 6.7 AST, 3.0 BLK, 0.7 STL, .565 FG, .364 3PT, .700 FT, .625 TS, 24.6 USG

Great start for Scottie.

Great to see. We can criticize a player when he shows he needs to be criticized. I'm not sure why we're so careful to not give him praise when he's doing well

I'm noticing this with the media too. All that criticism last season and no one wants to say, hey he's looking great so far. It's a passby comment.

It's like people are in here to taper expectations and knock down any positives.

Anyone who isn't happy with his play SO FAR just doesn't like him and will probably never change their stance.

The flubs against the Bulls stung the team but guess what? There will most definitely be another foul/turnover/miscue on his part that will arguably cost them another win. It will probably even happen soon. That naturally comes with the territory with a youngster with a significant increase in usage.

[Tha Cynic]

Not good enough at either end for me to classify him as a superstar. Also HIGHLY streaky because he's a mid-efficacy volume 3pt shooter with a weak middle game and generally a pretty tepid draw rate.



Yep. There aren't many in any given season. "Superstar" is a big label. They don't grow on trees.

The Celtics of today remind me of the modern day version of the Derozan and Lowry Raptors. It feels like they're still missing a superstar, but their team is pretty skilled.

What am I reading man lol

Tatum is basically Paul George imo.

[tsherkin]

Tatum is basically Paul George imo.

2019 George, sure.

[tsherkin]

It's like people are in here to taper expectations and knock down any positives.

I think it's at least to some degree that people know it's just a couple of games and trying to take much in the way of long-term prognostication from those isn't sensible. Year after year, people do the "early hot takes" thing from the preseason and the first couple weeks of the season.

That said, it's better to start out well than to start out like dog-ass, and Scottie's been hitting shots, active contesting shots, seems to have rediscovered his short touch and looks way smoother and more confident from 3, so those are all nice to see.

[Tha Cynic]

I think people have this conception that Tatum is done growing as a player because he's been in so many playoff games already in his young career. Like the dude has 94 playoff games played already, to show how crazy that is, the Raptors organization has 124 played playoff games in its entirety.

He's only 25 and is like 2-3 years away from his prime, calling him and the Celtics a modern day Demar/Lowry is nuts lol.

Imagine if we applied that same logic when speaking about Raptors players when they're young. He's only 22 and can get better! The double standards are amazing.

Sure, Tatum can improve. But the way he plays and has played so far is as a player who's more of a secondary player on a championship team. This is of course my own personal opinions. I have the same line of thinking on this as Hijinx. Tatum is not a superstar and we can say, yet. But I don't think he'll ever get there.

[Tha Cynic]

It's like people are in here to taper expectations and knock down any positives.

I think it's at least to some degree that people know it's just a couple of games and trying to take much in the way of long-term prognostication from those isn't sensible. Year after year, people do the "early hot takes" thing from the preseason and the first couple weeks of the season.

That said, it's better to start out well than to start out like dog-ass, and Scottie's been hitting shots, active contesting shots, seems to have rediscovered his short touch and looks way smoother and more confident from 3, so those are all nice to see.

Yeah, so he has been making great strides so far. We will trash him when he sucks so I'll wait till then to engage that part of it.

[TRik]

The Celtics of today remind me of the modern day version of the Derozan and Lowry Raptors. It feels like they're still missing a superstar, but their team is pretty skilled.

What am I reading man lol

Tatum is basically Paul George imo.

You saying Tatum is basically George kinda reminds me of an Indy game during the 2013 Rudy Gay season. I was watching the Indy feed and their commentators were saying that George needed to try and be as good as Gay.

George turned out better than Gay and I think Tatum will be better (is better) than George. That’s my opinion anyways. I also think Tatum is more talented and in a better position to be taken seriously in the playoffs than them DD/Lowry Raptors.

[HumbleRen]

I think people have this conception that Tatum is done growing as a player because he's been in so many playoff games already in his young career. Like the dude has 94 playoff games played already, to show how crazy that is, the Raptors organization has 124 played playoff games in its entirety.

He's only 25 and is like 2-3 years away from his prime, calling him and the Celtics a modern day Demar/Lowry is nuts lol.

Imagine if we applied that same logic when speaking about Raptors players when they're young. He's only 22 and can get better! The double standards are amazing.

Sure, Tatum can improve. But the way he plays and has played so far is as a player who's more of a secondary player on a championship team.

Scottie has been great but he's still unproven in terms of being a franchise player, he's shown amazing flashes and hopefully this year is the year that he breaks out. Tatum in his rookie year was going to 7 games against Lebron in the playoffs in the ECF the year Lebron swept the Raptors. Tatum at Scottie's age was the best player on a team that went to the ECF and beat arguably the 2nd greatest Raptors team of all time.

There's inherently going to be a difference in how people view Tatum vs how they view Scottie because Tatum is just simply a better player and prospect.

[Tha Cynic]

What am I reading man lol

Tatum is basically Paul George imo.

You saying Tatum is basically George kinda reminds me of an Indy game during the 2013 Rudy Gay season. I was watching the Indy feed and their commentators were saying that George needed to try and be as good as Gay.

George turned out better than Gay and I think Tatum will be better (is better) than George. That’s my opinion anyways. I also think Tatum is more talented and in a better position to be taken seriously in the playoffs than them DD/Lowry Raptors.

I'm not doing a direct statistical comparison. I just mean in terms of what they are in the NBA. Both are great scorers and can defend. But in terms of leading a team to a championship, I don't think either player is that. They will need a player who is a more impact player to win it all. But, sometimes teams do have one year blips, so Tatum may get that if say Jokic gets injured.

Tatum had the most stacked roster in the East and really his main competition are Giannis and Lillard. We'll see if they can reach the finals.

[tsherkin]

Yeah, so he has been making great strides so far. We will trash him when he sucks so I'll wait till then to engage that part of it.

I mean, I'd rather not trash him. He's looking good and we all know how a season goes: ebb and flow, up and down. We should be looking for the positives. We get ahead of ourselves and expect too much too fast and that's when we get all uppity, no?

He's started well. When he stops shooting unreasonably well on his long 2s, then we'll start to see more of what improvements he has and hasn't made. Adjustments, how he adapts, those are going to be very important.

[Tha Cynic]

I think people have this conception that Tatum is done growing as a player because he's been in so many playoff games already in his young career. Like the dude has 94 playoff games played already, to show how crazy that is, the Raptors organization has 124 played playoff games in its entirety.

He's only 25 and is like 2-3 years away from his prime, calling him and the Celtics a modern day Demar/Lowry is nuts lol.

Imagine if we applied that same logic when speaking about Raptors players when they're young. He's only 22 and can get better! The double standards are amazing.

Sure, Tatum can improve. But the way he plays and has played so far is as a player who's more of a secondary player on a championship team.

Scottie has been great but he's still unproven in terms of being a franchise player, he's shown amazing flashes and hopefully this year is the year that he breaks out. Tatum in his rookie year was going to 7 games against Lebron in the playoffs in the ECF the year Lebron swept the Raptors. Tatum at Scottie's age was the best player on a team that went to the ECF and beat arguably the 2nd greatest Raptors team of all time.

There's inherently going to be a difference in how people view Tatum vs how they view Scottie because Tatum is just simply a better player and prospect.

Yeah, the point is players can get better. In terms of Barnes I think his basketball mind is significantly ahead of Tatum's. In terms of raw skills Tatum is significantly ahead of Barnes. Both will need to achieve the other to be great superstars. But on the court, your raw skills will always look more sexy to the viewer.

When you see James or Jokic or even Luka, you can see how they process the game on the court is very different than say Tatum. That's what separates them.

[TRik]

Tatum is basically Paul George imo.

You saying Tatum is basically George kinda reminds me of an Indy game during the 2013 Rudy Gay season. I was watching the Indy feed and their commentators were saying that George needed to try and be as good as Gay.

George turned out better than Gay and I think Tatum will be better (is better) than George. That’s my opinion anyways. I also think Tatum is more talented and in a better position to be taken seriously in the playoffs than them DD/Lowry Raptors.

I'm not doing a direct statistical comparison. I just mean in terms of what they are in the NBA. Both are great scorers and can defend. But in terms of leading a team to a championship, I don't think either player is that. They will need a player who is a more impact player to win it all. But, sometimes teams do have one year blips, so Tatum may get that if say Jokic gets injured.

Tatum had the most stacked roster in the East and really his main competition are Giannis and Lillard. We'll see if they can reach the finals.

You might be right as well, I was just giving my read.

[Tha Cynic]

Yeah, so he has been making great strides so far. We will trash him when he sucks so I'll wait till then to engage that part of it.

I mean, I'd rather not trash him. He's looking good and we all know how a season goes: ebb and flow, up and down. We should be looking for the positives. We get ahead of ourselves and expect too much too fast and that's when we get all uppity, no?

He's started well. When he stops shooting unreasonably well on his long 2s, then we'll start to see more of what improvements he has and hasn't made. Adjustments, how he adapts, those are going to be very important.

Yeah exactly. Maybe there are other parts of the game we haven't seen yet, like a better inside game or more driving when teams adjust for the jumper. He's still a very raw player, but the offensive aggression looks better and the mechanics on that jumper look better. Those are two of the main things I was looking for coming into the season. Also his personality seems to be coming out more this season after basically looking like someone who was trapped in a cage and under a silence order.

[Chandan]

As great as scottie had been, he hasn't even passed the siakam hurdle yet. Siakam can get 22/6/6 and that would be a normal game for him. We still havnt seen scottie get the same level of attention siakam has after kawhi left. I think he MIGHT perform better because of his passing game but only time will tell.
One thing is he really needs a bread and butter move otherwise we will be repeating the "he isn't a closer" convo evenually.

[tsherkin]

Yeah exactly. Maybe there are other parts of the game we haven't seen yet, like a better inside game or more driving when teams adjust for the jumper.

Right. We know he's got some chops in the post and he certainly has the tools to operate in those spaces. A good time to develop those. This year isn't about him blossoming into a superstar, at least in my eyes. More so, it's about letting him grow into his role and show us that he can make improvements in his game. Last year was not good, but this year can be about getting back on track with his development.


I would like as well if he and Poeltl could get connected in some more PnR action. We are not giving Poeltl enough shots, especially with how useless the rest of the non-Scottie guys are beneath the arc. Not that Jak needs to be isolating or taking 15 shots per game or anything weird, but like 3 or 4 extra shots per game. We need that to help drive team offense so very badly. And it makes sense to get Scottie working that set. DHOs and classic PnRs to gain lane entry and see if he can hit a high-percentage finisher.

[Scase]

37.3 MIN, 21.0 PPG, 8.7 REB, 6.7 AST, 3.0 BLK, 0.7 STL, .565 FG, .364 3PT, .700 FT, .625 TS, 24.6 USG

Great start for Scottie.

Great to see. We can criticize a player when he shows he needs to be criticized. I'm not sure why we're so careful to not give him praise when he's doing well

I'm noticing this with the media too. All that criticism last season and no one wants to say, hey he's looking great so far. It's a passby comment.

It's like people are in here to taper expectations and knock down any positives.

I'm expecting a whole lot of people who trashed him last year (media and otherwise) to come out of the woodwork when he has a bad game.

What he is doing isn't sustainable, and no one should be surprised when he cools off, but for now anyone making complaints about his play are straight up haters. The worst thing he did was turn the ball over a bunch, and vs the sixers, he turned it over once. He's got a lower TOV% than Jokic, Ingram, on par with Giannis, Cade, Trae, etc. There's been damn near nothing to complain about so far.