Official NBA General Discussion 2024-25 V2.0

[mihaic]

Both teams looked gassed in the OT. Hartenstein missed 3 of his Poeltl style shots. Murray looked gassed but was pushing through.

It's hard for Jokic he has to handle 2 bigs.

Gordon must have the best conditioning, he is a great supporting player. MPJ had a great game too. Why doesn't Chet take more 3s.

[Pointgod]

OKC regardless of winning a chip this year needs to be bolder than Masai (Masai would not trade anyone from this core 3). Jdub and Hart plus any amount of picks that gets the Giannis trade done needs to happen. You're locking in a dynasty for the next half-decade barring health and forcing Wemby to wait his time.

I have a feeling we're going to see a safe attempt by going for KD for his last year on his contract without giving up the core or messing up their financial plans, and banking on the 2 kids having reached their potential in year 5.

I would be more inclined to trade Chet. Not sure of his level of creation but it seems like Williams and SGA are the only two guys on the roster who can create for themselves. That’s a problem that doesn’t get fixed trading J Dub. If the playoffs that shown anything, it’s that it helps when you have multiple guys that can create.

[Pointgod]

Sure but if the soon to be MVP is taking 0 shots in OT, i just can’t bring my self to blame I Hart for them losing.

That’s on SGA. You can’t go ghost like that.

They were easy shots though, Poeltl would have made them.

SGA was horrendous. But make no mistake about it, IH was awful and looked completely shook out there. SGA spoon fed him easy shots and he bricked all of them. It was quite shocking to see.

Someone on the Knicks board said Hartenstein shot about 80% on his floater this season, very reliable, so to miss the three he missed, badly, was especially painful. He did look shook for sure.

The lights were just too bright apparently

[mihaic]

SGA was horrendous. But make no mistake about it, IH was awful and looked completely shook out there. SGA spoon fed him easy shots and he bricked all of them. It was quite shocking to see.

Someone on the Knicks board said Hartenstein shot about 80% on his floater this season, very reliable, so to miss the three he missed, badly, was especially painful. He did look shook for sure.

The lights were just too bright apparently

Lol.

Actually both teams looked gassed with the exception of Gordon. This is where that mile high conditioning comes in handy. Having that extra gas in the tank to push through.

[JB7]

OKC is the better team. They’re not evenly matched. OKC blew it. Run this game for infinity with game theory —- OKC wins.

Jokic went 8/25 and 0/10 from 3 lol.

If OKC was the better team they would have won. I don't know about infinity times, but I watched this game and Denver is leading 2-1 in the series. Tough playoff game where both team' stars struggled, but Denver as a team stepped up and won.

I'm not sure what "blew it" means when both stars struggled, and I have no idea who wins this series but some of you acting like this is a video game with ratings.

Also, why do I sense anger? It was a great basketball game lol

I couldn't watch it. But I remember there were some concerning stats for OKC's offense during the season while SGA was sitting or sidelined. I think Jdubs is a solid two way player....but also sense he's been a little overrated offensively as a guy who's benefitted ALOT from double-teams on SGA.

They still seem like a team that is simple to gameplan against: shut down SGA at all costs. Which is why I think they have an amazing opportunity to cash in their best assets for Giannis. I think those two would be unstoppable. Someone else here said it...but SGA has a similar "jokic effect" that makes his teammates appear better than they will be on a different team. Chet + jdub + filler/picks should be the cost.

There's not much of a choice for those who think that cost is too much. OKC can't have another max contract with two supermax guys anyways. And they are simply better off with giannis than they are with chet/dubs

They're better off getting rid of the two guys who are guaranteed incoming max contracts and keep their depth guys that cost between 18 and 30 per year. Also...by giving up chet/jdub...they will retain more picks they can use to find much needed efficient contracts to fill out the roster.

Yes, I think it is going to require both Chet and J-Dub in a deal, because while OKC has a lot more of picks to offer, most are going to be mid or later picks in the first round, so not great picks.

Problem for OKC is they are probably going to need to include IH or Dort in the deal for salary matching.

[Boogie!]

Man okc is choking. Where is shai. Warriors without curry. So sucks.

[Scizzup]

Jokic went 8/25 and 0/10 from 3 lol.

If OKC was the better team they would have won. I don't know about infinity times, but I watched this game and Denver is leading 2-1 in the series. Tough playoff game where both team' stars struggled, but Denver as a team stepped up and won.

I'm not sure what "blew it" means when both stars struggled, and I have no idea who wins this series but some of you acting like this is a video game with ratings.

Also, why do I sense anger? It was a great basketball game lol

I couldn't watch it. But I remember there were some concerning stats for OKC's offense during the season while SGA was sitting or sidelined. I think Jdubs is a solid two way player....but also sense he's been a little overrated offensively as a guy who's benefitted ALOT from double-teams on SGA.

They still seem like a team that is simple to gameplan against: shut down SGA at all costs. Which is why I think they have an amazing opportunity to cash in their best assets for Giannis. I think those two would be unstoppable. Someone else here said it...but SGA has a similar "jokic effect" that makes his teammates appear better than they will be on a different team. Chet + jdub + filler/picks should be the cost.

There's not much of a choice for those who think that cost is too much. OKC can't have another max contract with two supermax guys anyways. And they are simply better off with giannis than they are with chet/dubs

They're better off getting rid of the two guys who are guaranteed incoming max contracts and keep their depth guys that cost between 18 and 30 per year. Also...by giving up chet/jdub...they will retain more picks they can use to find much needed efficient contracts to fill out the roster.

Yes, I think it is going to require both Chet and J-Dub in a deal, because while OKC has a lot more of picks to offer, most are going to be mid or later picks in the first round, so not great picks.

Problem for OKC is they are probably going to need to include IH or Dort in the deal for salary matching.

OKC is not trading both Chet and JDub for anyone not named Wemby lol. Trading that for Giannis makes them a worse team now and the future. In the playoffs half court creation matters more and Giannis is not a top guy when it comes to it, its why Bucks have had troubles vs great defense in past. Shai does not shoot enough 3s for that duo to just out talent you. Teams would be able to defend them even easier.

if I am OKC I get a big movement wing shooter, they don't need another star. They have dominated this series despite being 1-2 and likely will still win it. If Presti got a Trey Murphy or even Cam Johnson, they are up 3-0. consolidate 2 role players for a better one.

[Scizzup]

Great win by Denver, I fell asleep at the end there. Still think OKC wins the series, nothing that has happened in the 3 games has swayed my prediction. When OKC is at their best they are much better than Denver.


I thought OKC in 6 at start of the series, I can still see that happening but I am thinking this goes game 7 now.

[mdenny]

Jokic went 8/25 and 0/10 from 3 lol.

If OKC was the better team they would have won. I don't know about infinity times, but I watched this game and Denver is leading 2-1 in the series. Tough playoff game where both team' stars struggled, but Denver as a team stepped up and won.

I'm not sure what "blew it" means when both stars struggled, and I have no idea who wins this series but some of you acting like this is a video game with ratings.

Also, why do I sense anger? It was a great basketball game lol

I couldn't watch it. But I remember there were some concerning stats for OKC's offense during the season while SGA was sitting or sidelined. I think Jdubs is a solid two way player....but also sense he's been a little overrated offensively as a guy who's benefitted ALOT from double-teams on SGA.

They still seem like a team that is simple to gameplan against: shut down SGA at all costs. Which is why I think they have an amazing opportunity to cash in their best assets for Giannis. I think those two would be unstoppable. Someone else here said it...but SGA has a similar "jokic effect" that makes his teammates appear better than they will be on a different team. Chet + jdub + filler/picks should be the cost.

There's not much of a choice for those who think that cost is too much. OKC can't have another max contract with two supermax guys anyways. And they are simply better off with giannis than they are with chet/dubs

They're better off getting rid of the two guys who are guaranteed incoming max contracts and keep their depth guys that cost between 18 and 30 per year. Also...by giving up chet/jdub...they will retain more picks they can use to find much needed efficient contracts to fill out the roster.

Yes, I think it is going to require both Chet and J-Dub in a deal, because while OKC has a lot more of picks to offer, most are going to be mid or later picks in the first round, so not great picks.

Problem for OKC is they are probably going to need to include IH or Dort in the deal for salary matching.

Yep. Ppl just aren't facing reality if they think OKC is gonna have 2 supermax guys plus an additional max salary.

And yes....they are gonna have to add hartenstien too. But a package of jdubs/chet/hartenstien is unmatchable across the league. Plus it allows you to keep all (or most) if the picks.

So giannis/sga/hart/dort/Caruso is a pretty damn good starting place. Then you fill out the roster by either developing prospects on rookie contracts AND trading pieces of MASSIVE collection of picks for the best role player contracts in the league.

Other teams will end up getting GREAT deals for role players who are locked into highly efficient contracts because okc will be paying for the player AND the contract. This is where you might see stuff like two first rounders and a second for Poetl (wishful thinking). But the point is they will be paying top dollar for the best 15 to 20 milly per year players in the league.

A few guys that exemplify targets on super value contracts: Naz Reid, divencenzo, dinwiddie, Mcbride, avdija, Austin reeves, most notably....SGA's half brother is on a steal of a deal too.

Look for players like that to get traded for WAY more picks than they are worth.

Just seems so obvious this is the path.

Also...I bet both chet and jdubs end up being kinda ho-hum players in Milwaukee anyway. With both of them in the top 40 or 50 range. So awesome players...but not the kind you want to give max contracts ideally.

[Brinbe]

huge legacy games here. last gasp of this current celtics team and this knicks team won't have a better chance to get by them if they win this

[Basketball_Jones]

Towns is awful I can’t stand this

[mdenny]

I couldn't watch it. But I remember there were some concerning stats for OKC's offense during the season while SGA was sitting or sidelined. I think Jdubs is a solid two way player....but also sense he's been a little overrated offensively as a guy who's benefitted ALOT from double-teams on SGA.

They still seem like a team that is simple to gameplan against: shut down SGA at all costs. Which is why I think they have an amazing opportunity to cash in their best assets for Giannis. I think those two would be unstoppable. Someone else here said it...but SGA has a similar "jokic effect" that makes his teammates appear better than they will be on a different team. Chet + jdub + filler/picks should be the cost.

There's not much of a choice for those who think that cost is too much. OKC can't have another max contract with two supermax guys anyways. And they are simply better off with giannis than they are with chet/dubs

They're better off getting rid of the two guys who are guaranteed incoming max contracts and keep their depth guys that cost between 18 and 30 per year. Also...by giving up chet/jdub...they will retain more picks they can use to find much needed efficient contracts to fill out the roster.

Yes, I think it is going to require both Chet and J-Dub in a deal, because while OKC has a lot more of picks to offer, most are going to be mid or later picks in the first round, so not great picks.

Problem for OKC is they are probably going to need to include IH or Dort in the deal for salary matching.

OKC is not trading both Chet and JDub for anyone not named Wemby lol. Trading that for Giannis makes them a worse team now and the future. In the playoffs half court creation matters more and Giannis is not a top guy when it comes to it, its why Bucks have had troubles vs great defense in past. Shai does not shoot enough 3s for that duo to just out talent you. Teams would be able to defend them even easier.

if I am OKC I get a big movement wing shooter, they don't need another star. They have dominated this series despite being 1-2 and likely will still win it. If Presti got a Trey Murphy or even Cam Johnson, they are up 3-0. consolidate 2 role players for a better one.

Respectfully disagree. Chet and Jdub are at the very peak of their hype years. All that hype turns to jaded disappointment for 4th and 5th year players. Scotty is a good example. A year ago ppl were talking about him potentially being top 10 (which was crazy). Now many ppl are saying he isn't the worth the max rookie extension (also crazy).

This pattern is like clockwork.

[mdenny]

I couldn't watch it. But I remember there were some concerning stats for OKC's offense during the season while SGA was sitting or sidelined. I think Jdubs is a solid two way player....but also sense he's been a little overrated offensively as a guy who's benefitted ALOT from double-teams on SGA.

They still seem like a team that is simple to gameplan against: shut down SGA at all costs. Which is why I think they have an amazing opportunity to cash in their best assets for Giannis. I think those two would be unstoppable. Someone else here said it...but SGA has a similar "jokic effect" that makes his teammates appear better than they will be on a different team. Chet + jdub + filler/picks should be the cost.

There's not much of a choice for those who think that cost is too much. OKC can't have another max contract with two supermax guys anyways. And they are simply better off with giannis than they are with chet/dubs

They're better off getting rid of the two guys who are guaranteed incoming max contracts and keep their depth guys that cost between 18 and 30 per year. Also...by giving up chet/jdub...they will retain more picks they can use to find much needed efficient contracts to fill out the roster.

Yes, I think it is going to require both Chet and J-Dub in a deal, because while OKC has a lot more of picks to offer, most are going to be mid or later picks in the first round, so not great picks.

Problem for OKC is they are probably going to need to include IH or Dort in the deal for salary matching.

OKC is not trading both Chet and JDub for anyone not named Wemby lol. Trading that for Giannis makes them a worse team now and the future. In the playoffs half court creation matters more and Giannis is not a top guy when it comes to it, its why Bucks have had troubles vs great defense in past. Shai does not shoot enough 3s for that duo to just out talent you. Teams would be able to defend them even easier.

if I am OKC I get a big movement wing shooter, they don't need another star. They have dominated this series despite being 1-2 and likely will still win it. If Presti got a Trey Murphy or even Cam Johnson, they are up 3-0. consolidate 2 role players for a better one.

Respectfully disagree. Chet and Jdub are at the very peak of their hype years. You are over-valuing them. Particularly because they are going to cost you a combined 90 milly per year after next season. Neither shows signs if being a high efficient max contract. They look to be average and/or below average in terms of max contract efficiency.

Obviously...they are awesome now because they don't cost you roster depth yet. But that's what many ppl don't take into consideration. A roster is not just an accumulation of players. The valuation of guys like chet, jdubs is also what you LOSE from the roster by having them on the payroll.

All that hype turns to jaded disappointment for 4th and 5th year players. Scotty is a good example. A year ago ppl were talking about him potentially being top 10 (which was crazy). Now many ppl are saying he isn't the worth the max rookie extension (also crazy). I mean...he may be a low efficiency max contract guy....but there is no universe where a player like him is NOT getting the max.

This pattern is like clockwork. Particularly for the draft hype ppl and tankers. (Not saying anything about you)

They are way too optimistic about picks and prospects and way too pessimistic about everyone who's been in the league more than 4 or 5 years.

[mtcan]

Yes, I think it is going to require both Chet and J-Dub in a deal, because while OKC has a lot more of picks to offer, most are going to be mid or later picks in the first round, so not great picks.

Problem for OKC is they are probably going to need to include IH or Dort in the deal for salary matching.

OKC is not trading both Chet and JDub for anyone not named Wemby lol. Trading that for Giannis makes them a worse team now and the future. In the playoffs half court creation matters more and Giannis is not a top guy when it comes to it, its why Bucks have had troubles vs great defense in past. Shai does not shoot enough 3s for that duo to just out talent you. Teams would be able to defend them even easier.

if I am OKC I get a big movement wing shooter, they don't need another star. They have dominated this series despite being 1-2 and likely will still win it. If Presti got a Trey Murphy or even Cam Johnson, they are up 3-0. consolidate 2 role players for a better one.

Respectfully disagree. Chet and Jdub are at the very peak of their hype years. All that hype turns to jaded disappointment for 4th and 5th year players. Scotty is a good example. A year ago ppl were talking about him potentially being top 10 (which was crazy). Now many ppl are saying he isn't the worth the max rookie extension (also crazy).

This pattern is like clockwork.

This is more specific to Raptors RealGM. Not sure this applies outside these boards and with other teams' fanbases.

[tsherkin]

Respectfully disagree. Chet and Jdub are at the very peak of their hype years. All that hype turns to jaded disappointment for 4th and 5th year players. Scotty is a good example. A year ago ppl were talking about him potentially being top 10 (which was crazy). Now many ppl are saying he isn't the worth the max rookie extension (also crazy).

This pattern is like clockwork.

Depends on the nature of the conversation around a given player, to at least some degree. People were hyping Scottie way too hard, and giving so many excuses when he kept stumbling. Once a rookie contract is done, you've got a pretty reasonable sample of a player and author a pretty strong opinion about their likely ceiling. They still have the opportunity to improve, but you start realizing pretty clearly that you're not getting The Next, so to speak. Most of the time, anyway. So you get the guys who are there fighting against the extreme optimism, the inevitable group of just straight-up haters, then around 4 or 5 years in, the optimism bubble pops, yeah?

[Scizzup]

Yes, I think it is going to require both Chet and J-Dub in a deal, because while OKC has a lot more of picks to offer, most are going to be mid or later picks in the first round, so not great picks.

Problem for OKC is they are probably going to need to include IH or Dort in the deal for salary matching.

OKC is not trading both Chet and JDub for anyone not named Wemby lol. Trading that for Giannis makes them a worse team now and the future. In the playoffs half court creation matters more and Giannis is not a top guy when it comes to it, its why Bucks have had troubles vs great defense in past. Shai does not shoot enough 3s for that duo to just out talent you. Teams would be able to defend them even easier.

if I am OKC I get a big movement wing shooter, they don't need another star. They have dominated this series despite being 1-2 and likely will still win it. If Presti got a Trey Murphy or even Cam Johnson, they are up 3-0. consolidate 2 role players for a better one.

Respectfully disagree. Chet and Jdub are at the very peak of their hype years. All that hype turns to jaded disappointment for 4th and 5th year players. Scotty is a good example. A year ago ppl were talking about him potentially being top 10 (which was crazy). Now many ppl are saying he isn't the worth the max rookie extension (also crazy).

This pattern is like clockwork.

You just wrote **** that is not based in logic. Chet is 22 and JDub is 23 years old. They are not even close to their peak. Jdub is better than Shai was at the same age btw, not that progression is linear.

Chet is the 2nd best defender in the league healthy and he has not even put on weight or improved his creation yet. Who tf is saying Chet or Jdub ain't worth the 25% max? Chet has a higher ceiling than Mobley/Barnes to me. The injury this year really hurt his development but as a rookie he had a defensive season as good as Mobley best and a better season than Barnes ever did, period. Chet ceiling is an all time defender that can punish mismatch and space the floor. These freak rim protectors that can hold up in switches are unicorns (defending the rim is the most impactful part of defense). You have to look at Chet value from the defensive end. He is not a number 1 option on offense.


OKC is down this series because they have made stupid clutch mistakes and shot the 3 ball poorly. They have shot the 3 ball 4% worse than Nuggets and made 1 less 3 pointer. This should not be the case looking at both rosters so maybe shooting variance flips soon.

Edit: seen this is more of a Scottie post, well I never envisioned Scottie as a top 10 player. He does not check any of the boxes when it comes to super elite defense, playmaking, or self creation. Chet and even Mobley does with defense.

[Scizzup]

Boston has now had 20 point lead in all 3 games. Lets see if they blow this.

Although they have positive variance right now. 12/19 from 3. Knicks defense has been bad at the POA, didn't look as bad on the road funny enough.

[Brinbe]

knicks are who we thought they were

[HumbleRen]

Back to back games of OG scoring less than 6 points.

If he was Siakam or fvv, he’d be getting cooked here.

[Basketball_Jones]

knicks are who we thought they were

Indeed, if they drop next game for sure. Let’s see if this wasn’t a fluke.