2014 NBA Draft Prospects Thread #5 | Raps picking 20th

[UneducatedFan86]

I may have missed it being posted here, but here's Mike Schmitz' Elfrid Payton vs. elite competition video, posted a few days ago. Can't get it to embed, sorry.

Not a ringing endorsement for his NBA prospects, IMO. Others may see it differently, I'm interested to read people's reactions.

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Elf ... 9RQXP-SuHv

I really don't see what people see in Payton. I think he's highly overrated on this board. He's going to be a fringe starter at best, and probably never amount to anything more than a backup/defense matchup player. He's a Junior, it's not like this guy is 18 and just needs time to develop his game. He's got a lot of holes to his game and probably wouldn't be able to work on them here.

[ATLTimekeeper]

I really don't see what people see in Payton. I think he's highly overrated on this board. He's going to be a fringe starter at best, and probably never amount to anything more than a backup/defense matchup player. He's a Junior, it's not like this guy is 18 and just needs time to develop his game. He's got a lot of holes to his game and probably wouldn't be able to work on them here.

He's a young junior, though. Just half a year older than Ennis and the same age as Embiid. His downside is a washout, but at pick #20 that's the most likely scenario for most players. He absolutely can work on his jump shot here.

[kidr1211]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/RaptorsMR/status/473802601855995904[/tweet]


Have we only worked out one first round prospect so far? One that probably won't be there at 20 too.

[Kabookalu]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/RaptorsMR/status/473802601855995904[/tweet]


Have we only worked out one first round prospect so far? One that probably won't be there at 20 too.

There's not a single prospect in that list I recognize. Except for Jahii Carson just because he had a highlight reel on hoopmixtape.

[CPT]

Yeah, the more I see of Payton, the more it seems to me that his upside is a defender off the bench, with his downside being a guy who isn't effective enough to stay on the court.

For a guy as unskilled as he is, his physical tools are kind of underwhelming. He's got good size, but not great. He's athletic, but not a freak athlete. He may be below average for the position at the NBA level, actually.

[fame]

Interesting that we have Russ Smith aka Russalicious in for a workout. He was a fun college player, but way undersized and selfish. Apparently he's been turning heads in some workout though.

[theonlyeastcoastrapsfan]

Im no expert, but from the bit of consideration I've given it, I'm kinda in the KJ McDaniels camp at the moment.

[Raptorfan2012]

Im no expert, but from the bit of consideration I've given it, I'm kinda in the KJ McDaniels camp at the moment.

Draft combine says KJ is only 6'6 in shoes but he looks a bit taller than that for some reason. Probably ask for a remeasure lol

[kidr1211]

If we draft inglis we'll probably have to wait for him to come over. I read that he signed a 3 year deal overseas last year and has no nba buyout.

[Indeed]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/RaptorsMR/status/473802601855995904[/tweet]


Have we only worked out one first round prospect so far? One that probably won't be there at 20 too.

There's not a single prospect in that list I recognize. Except for Jahii Carson just because he had a highlight reel on hoopmixtape.

It seems they are PG/SG.
If we are drafting BPA at #20, I assume we are drafting a forward at #37.

[Indeed]

I may have missed it being posted here, but here's Mike Schmitz' Elfrid Payton vs. elite competition video, posted a few days ago. Can't get it to embed, sorry.

Not a ringing endorsement for his NBA prospects, IMO. Others may see it differently, I'm interested to read people's reactions.

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Elf ... 9RQXP-SuHv

I really don't see what people see in Payton. I think he's highly overrated on this board. He's going to be a fringe starter at best, and probably never amount to anything more than a backup/defense matchup player. He's a Junior, it's not like this guy is 18 and just needs time to develop his game. He's got a lot of holes to his game and probably wouldn't be able to work on them here.

His combination of quickness and ball handling can get to the rim, which is part of what we need. Then his playmaking isn't bad. Adding his defensive ability, he can be a two-way player (but a bit more ball dominate, since his weak shooting will be hard to play off the ball).

[Roland Brice]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/RaptorsMR/status/473802601855995904[/tweet]


Have we only worked out one first round prospect so far? One that probably won't be there at 20 too.

Russ Smith seems like another John Lucas' son to me, I think he has lots of heart but his little man inferiority complex takes over his brain and he just becomes selfish.

Nick Johnson is a guy that I haven't watched too much but from what I read he has potential as a 3+D guy.

Jordan Clarkson is another guy I know very little about, but he has size for the point guard spot so he's interesting. Although, his 3 point percentage is thoroughly underwhelming for a guy who's pretty much 22 and has had 3 years of college experience as the main guy.

Jahii Carson is a guy I really like. He has a little killer in him, but not an inferiority complex like Russ Smith. Jahii acts more like he belongs. Although, you could say the same things about his shooting as Clarkson, but I have a bias for Jahii. I see him as a potential Isaiah Thomas (Sacramento) type of steal late in the draft.

Javon McCrea is apparently has an NBA body already, but he's undersized. Even with his 7'0" wingspan he only has an 8"11" standing reach and a 32 inch max vertical. But he could be one of those little known guys who comes out of no where to be a productive NBA player, although those guys often have one very good attribute that people miss which is something I personally can't find with McCrea.

Sam Dower is a 6'9" Centre with a max vertical below 30 inches and nearly 11% body fat. Due Diligence?

[UK-Raptor]

Im really behind drafting Kyle Anderson now after being totally against it. He brings something completely different to our forwards, the ability to pass and see the court. Remember guys, mental speed can sometimes be faster than foot speed. His defence can be worked on with our plethora of coaches, his release will improve but his shot is pretty good % wise.

This is a huge comparison, but he reminds me a little of Paul Pierce how he cuts through the lane and lays it up, long steps whilst protecting the ball, high off the glass. Paul was also not the fastest but has a great basketball mind.

[Roland Brice]

Im really behind drafting Kyle Anderson now after being totally against it. He brings something completely different to our forwards, the ability to pass and see the court. Remember guys, mental speed can sometimes be faster than foot speed. His defence can be worked on with our plethora of coaches, his release will improve but his shot is pretty good % wise.

This is a huge comparison, but he reminds me a little of Paul Pierce how he cuts through the lane and lays it up, long steps whilst protecting the ball, high off the glass. Paul was also not the fastest but has a great basketball mind.

His defense can only be hidden because he's just slow, he has old man speed. But with that said if he drops I'd be all for taking him. The only reason I took guys like Anderson and Stauskas is because they seemingly played themselves out of our range.I could see Anderson being a guy who gets RIPPED defensively, but averages something like 12/8/6 in the NBA. However, if you have Lowry (mostly because of his gambling), DeRozan and Anderson on your team you need a big time rim protector behind them, and as of right now JV is not that guy.

[sweetcity]

Im really behind drafting Kyle Anderson now after being totally against it. He brings something completely different to our forwards, the ability to pass and see the court. Remember guys, mental speed can sometimes be faster than foot speed. His defence can be worked on with our plethora of coaches, his release will improve but his shot is pretty good % wise.

This is a huge comparison, but he reminds me a little of Paul Pierce how he cuts through the lane and lays it up, long steps whilst protecting the ball, high off the glass. Paul was also not the fastest but has a great basketball mind.

Thats actually a really interesting comparison.... Paul Pierce has been a raptor killer his entire career. If Anderson is there at 20 you have to take him, I think the chances of that are less then 5% though.

[UK-Raptor]

Im really behind drafting Kyle Anderson now after being totally against it. He brings something completely different to our forwards, the ability to pass and see the court. Remember guys, mental speed can sometimes be faster than foot speed. His defence can be worked on with our plethora of coaches, his release will improve but his shot is pretty good % wise.

This is a huge comparison, but he reminds me a little of Paul Pierce how he cuts through the lane and lays it up, long steps whilst protecting the ball, high off the glass. Paul was also not the fastest but has a great basketball mind.

His defense can only be hidden because he's just slow, he has old man speed. But with that said if he drops I'd be all for taking him. The only reason I took guys like Anderson and Stauskas is because they seemingly played themselves out of our range.I could see Anderson being a guy who gets RIPPED defensively, but averages something like 12/8/6 in the NBA. However, if you have Lowry (mostly because of his gambling), DeRozan and Anderson on your team you need a big time rim protector behind them, and as of right now JV is not that guy.

Its about footwork, if he gets that right which I'm sure he will with his strong basketball mind then he will be fine.

[Double Helix]

In an attempt to better separate 4 of the more popular wings that keep coming up I thought it might be interesting to analyze each of them out of 10 for both potential offensive impact and defensive impact in a complimentary role because, let's face it, none of them are good enough scorers to be alpha types on good teams. Not even Warren, who's obviously the best scorer of the bunch. He could be a 18-22ppg guy on a bad team someday, almost like a SF version of Henderson, but on a good playoff team you'd probably want him more of a complimentary role. Still, I see all 3 of these guys as being more complimentary players that would be ideal beside stars rather than trying to function as stars

(Potential offensive impact in a complimentary role includes individual scoring efficiency, ability to improve teammates offensive efficiency, O-rebounding for extra possessions)

(Potential defensive impact includes ability to guard position that would allow them to play next to complimentary offensive players, D-rebounding, and plus defensive attributes like anyone capable of becoming potentially a lockdown defender at a position)

KJ McDANIELS
KJ McDaniels potential impact on team offence in a complimentary role: 5.5 out of 10
KJ McDaniels potential impact on team defence: 8.0 out of 10
13.5 out of 20

Reasoning: His defensive upside may be as high as Anderson's offensive upside and on the flip side his offensive game doesn't need to be masked anywhere near as much as Kyle's defensive game will. This is supported by his strong advanced plus minus rating overall. He was 26th overall. The highest of all 4 of these wings.



KYLE ANDERSON
Kyle Anderson potential impact on team offence in a complimentary role: 7.75 out of 10
Kyle Anderson potential impact on team defence: 4.5 out of 10
12.25 out of 20.

Reasoning: This is supported by his strong advanced plus/minus where he was ranked 29th in the nation, which was the second highest of these wings. He he has a tremendous ability to help offences run more efficiently and he's improved his own catch and shoot ability as well as 3 point shooting ability. He can also operate in the post a little bit both to score or to find a teammate. His defensive shortcomings are well known but can be masked against many teams in the league. He also gets a slightly higher defensive rating from me than some might give out because of how strong he is on the defensive glass and his ability to put his long wingspan to good use for steals and deflections.

TJ WARREN
TJ Warren potential impact on team offence in a complimentary role: 6.75 out of 10
TJ Warren potential impact on team defence: 5.5 out of 10
12.25 out of 20

Reasoning: TJ Warren is a heck of a scorer but he won't be a primary scorer in the NBA. That's the only reason he isn't at 7.5 here. The thing that's allowed him to stand out the most in college may be greatly reduced at the next level. It's possible that his efficiency increases when he's placed in a reduced role but you still have to hope that his 3 pointer develops because it's not quite there yet. He's not much of a passer so the offensive contributions he's bringing to a team will largely be from himself. Defensively, he's better than Anderson but not by a ton. I'll give him credit for his size which makes him intriguing against some of the bigger SFs that like to post up. His standing reach is also closer to where you'd want a bigger SF's to be. He's certainly not an impact defender though so 5.5 seems fair. His advanced plus minus was 36th, which was the 3rd highest of these wings.

RODNEY HOOD
Rodney Hood potential impact on team offence in a complimentary role: 6.25 out of 10
Rodney Hood potential impact on team defence: 5.75 out of 10
12.0 out of 20

Reasoning: He seems tailor-made to be a complimentary long-range shooting SF next to a star 1 or 2. His 42% 3 point shooting looks legitimate and he's more than just a shooting specialist. This will give him a chance to play right away. Defensively, he's a poor rebounder for his position but he's probably smart enough to become a passable defender. It wouldn't surprise me if he goes higher than Warren simply because there are enough teams out there in desperate need of a reasonably athletic wing who can shoot the 3. It could be argued that many of these guys are within the same tier so need could be all that separates them come draft day. Because we sort of have a more intriguing version of this type of player in Ross already, and because the differences between him and the wings above may be slight, I wouldn't be surprised if he's rated lower. He also had the worst advanced plus/minus of this grouping at 146.

Conclusions:
This is just my own opinion obviously but I graded them in ways that I felt comfortable defending. Doing this helped me to better separate them as prospects and rank them better. It also helped me to realize that all of them have concerns and that it will take growth and some unexpected surprises in areas they currently struggle with for any of them to become truly special at the next level. I think they're all close to each other within a tier so team needs will likely come into play when deciding between them. It's not like there are massive age differences between these 4 either so I feel more comfortable suggesting that then if one of them was a freshmen and the other Payne's age.

[Mr.Raptorsingh]

Man, we should really try to move up. The prospects at 20 are all kind of underwhelming to be quite frank. I like the prospects at 37. I kind of know who I'd take there, and it'll be out of Micic, Dinwiddie, Antetokounmpo, and Burton most likely. At 59, take a Khem Birch or raw prospect with upside.

But, at 20, unless Kyle Anderson is on the board, it's a mixed bag.

Trade up for Gordon, Saric, or Stauskas.

[Indeed]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/RaptorsMR/status/473802601855995904[/tweet]


Have we only worked out one first round prospect so far? One that probably won't be there at 20 too.

Russ Smith seems like another John Lucas' son to me, I think he has lots of heart but his little man inferiority complex takes over his brain and he just becomes selfish.

Nick Johnson is a guy that I haven't watched too much but from what I read he has potential as a 3+D guy.

Jordan Clarkson is another guy I know very little about, but he has size for the point guard spot so he's interesting. Although, his 3 point percentage is thoroughly underwhelming for a guy who's pretty much 22 and has had 3 years of college experience as the main guy.

Jahii Carson is a guy I really like. He has a little killer in him, but not an inferiority complex like Russ Smith. Jahii acts more like he belongs. Although, you could say the same things about his shooting as Clarkson, but I have a bias for Jahii. I see him as a potential Isaiah Thomas (Sacramento) type of steal late in the draft.

Javon McCrea is apparently has an NBA body already, but he's undersized. Even with his 7'0" wingspan he only has an 8"8" standing reach and a 32 inch max vertical. But he could be one of those little known guys who comes out of no where to be a productive NBA player, although those guys often have one very good attribute that people miss which is something I personally can't find with McCrea.

Sam Dower is a 6'9" Centre with a max vertical below 30 inches and nearly 11% body fat. Due Diligence?

I like McCrea with his defensive potential, and his 2.4 assists showed he is a willing passer. Although lack the lateral quickness and consistency of shooting, but he is a versatile player who can help in different aspect of the game off the bench/injury. At #59, I am not expecting much.

[Undefeated]

Paul Pierce is bouncy and shifty with his handles which Kyle Anderson isn't. Anderson protects the ball well, but he can't breakdown the D because he doesn't change speeds well and he doesn't really have a tight handle with combos to shake his defender loose.