Team Canada Basketball Thread V3.0

[mojo13]

Just wanted to point out that the 2019 WC Group of Death occurred because we were ranked behind PR, DOM and VEN.
We are now at least ahead of DOM and PR and just a tiny bit behind VEN. And may even catch them in the next update.

If not now, VEN we can leap with a couple qualifier wins but we won’t have the NBA guys to rely on. We went 1-1 against VEN the last time.

The WC Qualfier points are weighted a little higher than the AmeriCup but there are bonuses for semi and final wins that could make those games equivalent.

Who knows? perhaps running the table at the AmariCup could even see us catching Brazil.



Edit: Brazil lost to Colombia the other day and were not too far ahead of us to begin with (about 50 points). Brazil should be in striking distances after the new update. And we may jump VEN as they lost at home to Argentina.

[steadysoul]

This approach that the Americup is a "meaningless" tournament really rubs me the wrong way.

No one treats the equivalent tournament in Europe this way. In fact, it's a very competitive and high-stakes tournament, which most European NBA guys, even stars, happily participate in and are proud to win. The last Euro Basket final, in 2017, was between Slovenia with Luka and Dragic and Serbia with Bogdanovic and Majanovic. Spain, which finished third, had the Gasol brothers, the Hernangomez brothers, and Rubio. Porzingis played for Latvia, and the list goes on. Nowitzki, Gasol, Parker, and other NBA stars didn't miss a beat when they were at the heights of their careers and almost always came. And the Europeans continue to care about it even now that it doesn't lead to a spot in the WC or the Olympics

Why should the Americup be so different? Just because the US decided they don't care? All of the other American teams do care. And for Canada, this would be a great opportunity to establish continental dominance and win the whole thing for the first time ever. Even the timeline works quite well for the NBA guys: commit for three weeks, practice a week together, play the qualifiers as preparation, and then continue to the Americup where they can truly build up chemistry and FIBA experience in a tournament environment, rather than just a sporadic game here and there against often weaker competition. There's a reason why everyone else looks more ready than us when they come to the WC. Because this is exactly what they do over the years -- play these continental tournaments together and build some chemistry.

I know this is the less likely scenario. But I don't think we as Canadian basketball fans should continue cooperating with this faulty narrative, stating that this is a tournament that doesn't matter just because the US decided that this is the case for them. I know we like to compare ourselves to the US, but we're not. They play in every Olympics and WC and often win these. We don't.

So the Americup matters for Fiba ranking. And it matters for really building cohesion in a competitive tournament environment. But most of all, it matters because it's the freaking continental championship, taking place every 4 years now (used to be bi-annual), and the winner gets to say that they are the champions of the Americas. Which, by the way, we've never done. The US, Brazil, Argentina, Perto Rico, Venezuela, and even Mexico have all won the gold at least once. Not us. If Canadian fans and the Canadian media don't care, then why should the players? This is how you build a real basketball tradition. You start caring!

Anyway, that's my rant on this...

It use to matter but now that it's not actually part of the qualification system it is meaningless. Even when it did matter it never had the Prestige of Eurobasket or even the weirdness of Afrobasket. It just exist and now it's meh. No one is sending their best team to this thing. They sending whomever because FIBA made it a violation to skip it because USA Basketball kept ignoring it.

[Hair Canada]

This approach that the Americup is a "meaningless" tournament really rubs me the wrong way.

No one treats the equivalent tournament in Europe this way. In fact, it's a very competitive and high-stakes tournament, which most European NBA guys, even stars, happily participate in and are proud to win. The last Euro Basket final, in 2017, was between Slovenia with Luka and Dragic and Serbia with Bogdanovic and Majanovic. Spain, which finished third, had the Gasol brothers, the Hernangomez brothers, and Rubio. Porzingis played for Latvia, and the list goes on. Nowitzki, Gasol, Parker, and other NBA stars didn't miss a beat when they were at the heights of their careers and almost always came. And the Europeans continue to care about it even now that it doesn't lead to a spot in the WC or the Olympics

Why should the Americup be so different? Just because the US decided they don't care? All of the other American teams do care. And for Canada, this would be a great opportunity to establish continental dominance and win the whole thing for the first time ever. Even the timeline works quite well for the NBA guys: commit for three weeks, practice a week together, play the qualifiers as preparation, and then continue to the Americup where they can truly build up chemistry and FIBA experience in a tournament environment, rather than just a sporadic game here and there against often weaker competition. There's a reason why everyone else looks more ready than us when they come to the WC. Because this is exactly what they do over the years -- play these continental tournaments together and build some chemistry.

I know this is the less likely scenario. But I don't think we as Canadian basketball fans should continue cooperating with this faulty narrative, stating that this is a tournament that doesn't matter just because the US decided that this is the case for them. I know we like to compare ourselves to the US, but we're not. They play in every Olympics and WC and often win these. We don't.

So the Americup matters for Fiba ranking. And it matters for really building cohesion in a competitive tournament environment. But most of all, it matters because it's the freaking continental championship, taking place every 4 years now (used to be bi-annual), and the winner gets to say that they are the champions of the Americas. Which, by the way, we've never done. The US, Brazil, Argentina, Perto Rico, Venezuela, and even Mexico have all won the gold at least once. Not us. If Canadian fans and the Canadian media don't care, then why should the players? This is how you build a real basketball tradition. You start caring!

Anyway, that's my rant on this...

It use to matter but now that it's not actually part of the qualification system it is meaningless. Even when it did matter it never had the Prestige of Eurobasket or even the weirdness of Afrobasket. It just exist and now it's meh. No one is sending their best team to this thing. They sending whomever because FIBA made it a violation to skip it because USA Basketball kept ignoring it.

Historically, that's just not true.

Everyone except for the US has cared about this championship and cared a lot. In the 2010s Argentina was sending teams that included names like Ginobili, Scola, Prigioni, Nocioni, and Delfino. Other NBA guys regularly played in these events, including Al Horford and Francisco Garcia (DR), Greivis Vasquez (Venezuela), Barea, Aroyo, and Balkman (PR), Splitter (Brazil), Ayon (Mexico), and others.

Again, just because the US decided they don't care (and, unfortunately, it seems, so did we in Canada), it doesn't mean that the rest of the Americas don't care. Historically, they've cared quite a bit, I would say just as much as the Europeans cared about the Eurobasket. In 2017 (the last championship and the first one that "didn't matter") you indeed find fewer NBA players, but I think that's simply because most of the southern and central American countries almost don't have them anymore. Guys like Campazzo, Deck, and Laprovittola were still there for Argentina.

It really is the lame Canadian mainstream basketball media, totally emulating the US, that decided that this doesn't matter because it's no longer a qualifier for the WC/Olympics, and Canadian basketball fans have taken the cue. Can't expect the players to care about it when that's the message they're getting back home...

[steadysoul]

This approach that the Americup is a "meaningless" tournament really rubs me the wrong way.

No one treats the equivalent tournament in Europe this way. In fact, it's a very competitive and high-stakes tournament, which most European NBA guys, even stars, happily participate in and are proud to win. The last Euro Basket final, in 2017, was between Slovenia with Luka and Dragic and Serbia with Bogdanovic and Majanovic. Spain, which finished third, had the Gasol brothers, the Hernangomez brothers, and Rubio. Porzingis played for Latvia, and the list goes on. Nowitzki, Gasol, Parker, and other NBA stars didn't miss a beat when they were at the heights of their careers and almost always came. And the Europeans continue to care about it even now that it doesn't lead to a spot in the WC or the Olympics

Why should the Americup be so different? Just because the US decided they don't care? All of the other American teams do care. And for Canada, this would be a great opportunity to establish continental dominance and win the whole thing for the first time ever. Even the timeline works quite well for the NBA guys: commit for three weeks, practice a week together, play the qualifiers as preparation, and then continue to the Americup where they can truly build up chemistry and FIBA experience in a tournament environment, rather than just a sporadic game here and there against often weaker competition. There's a reason why everyone else looks more ready than us when they come to the WC. Because this is exactly what they do over the years -- play these continental tournaments together and build some chemistry.

I know this is the less likely scenario. But I don't think we as Canadian basketball fans should continue cooperating with this faulty narrative, stating that this is a tournament that doesn't matter just because the US decided that this is the case for them. I know we like to compare ourselves to the US, but we're not. They play in every Olympics and WC and often win these. We don't.

So the Americup matters for Fiba ranking. And it matters for really building cohesion in a competitive tournament environment. But most of all, it matters because it's the freaking continental championship, taking place every 4 years now (used to be bi-annual), and the winner gets to say that they are the champions of the Americas. Which, by the way, we've never done. The US, Brazil, Argentina, Perto Rico, Venezuela, and even Mexico have all won the gold at least once. Not us. If Canadian fans and the Canadian media don't care, then why should the players? This is how you build a real basketball tradition. You start caring!

Anyway, that's my rant on this...

It use to matter but now that it's not actually part of the qualification system it is meaningless. Even when it did matter it never had the Prestige of Eurobasket or even the weirdness of Afrobasket. It just exist and now it's meh. No one is sending their best team to this thing. They sending whomever because FIBA made it a violation to skip it because USA Basketball kept ignoring it.

Historically, that's just not true.

Everyone except for the US has cared about this championship and cared a lot. In the 2010s Argentina was sending teams that included names like Ginobili, Scola, Prigioni, Nocioni, and Delfino. Other NBA guys regularly played in these events, including Al Horford and Francisco Garcia (DR), Greivis Vasquez (Venezuela), Barea, Aroyo, and Balkman (PR), Splitter (Brazil), Ayon (Mexico), and others.

Again, just because the US decided they don't care (and, unfortunately, it seems, so did we in Canada), it doesn't mean that the rest of the Americas don't care. Historically, they've cared quite a bit, I would say just as much as the Europeans cared about the Eurobasket. In 2017 (the last championship and the first one that "didn't matter") you indeed find fewer NBA players, but I think that's simply because most of the southern and central American countries almost don't have them anymore. Guys like Campazzo, Deck, and Laprovittola were still there for Argentina.

It really is the lame Canadian mainstream basketball media, totally emulating the US, that decided that this doesn't matter because it's no longer a qualifier for the WC/Olympics, and Canadian basketball fans have taken the cue. Can't expect the players to care about it when that's the message they're getting back home...

You're talking about when it was a qualifier. That is squarely in the past. They were trying to qualify for the Olympics and the FWC. They weren't sending those teams because the event was special. It was never on the same level of Eurobasket and it certainly is never getting to it now. It's great for points but even those are pretty meh. But again, this is FIBA's doing. Don't get mad at fans when FIBA took it out of the qualification cycle.

[mojo13]

Some quick hits from the last couple weeks:

NBA Summer League
Mfiondu Kabengele has a great SL run that landed him a 2-way contract with Boston. Welcome back to the NBA Fi.
AJ Lawson seem to played really well too, but the Mavs have yet to sign him. Talk of it though.
Lindell Wigginton was equal to Lawson and Kabengele and it landed him some sort of deal as, the Bucks announced they re-signed him, but no details on what kind of deal (could be just a Ex10).
Kyle Alexander was decent with the Blazers (SL champs!) but I'm not sure it is enough to get him anything more than a camp invite (if that). They seem to be looking for a depth big though.
Caleb Houstan had 1 really good game, but it seemed enough to land him a 2 year (2 mil per) guaranteed deal.
Nembhard looked ok - nothing spectacular, but a great first game. No word on a signing yet.
Josh Primo went down early with Covid which was disappointing.
Shaedon Sharpe went down first game with an injury (even more disappointing).
Mychal Mulder was waived by the Heat. Not sure where he goes next. I'd like to see him try Europe.
Not sure if there was anybody else worth talking about. Abu Kigab had a great final game (15/10 with solid D) but got no run before that (a shame).


Europe signings
Naz Mitrou Long signs with Olimpia Milano of the EuroLeague.
Dylan Ennis moves to Turkey - Galatasaray (BCL). Lateral moves but he seemed surprised Gran Canaria didn’t want him back.
Tyler Ennis re-signs with Tofas - Had a good healthy year last season
Trae Bell Haynes signs with Buducnost (ABA, EuroCup) - another big step up for for TBH
Mikyle McIntosh moves to Japan's 2nd division after a so-so year in Australia
Caleb Agada moves to Prometey. One of Ukraine's top teams (playing in Latvia) to play in the EuroCup.

Ignas Brazdeikis seems to be in talks with a couple EuroLeague teams (Baskonia and Zalgaris). Kyle Alexnder may be as well (an a number of EuroCup teams). Kyle Wiltjer and Marial Shayok both have a EL rumor or two, but my guess is they both end up with EuroCup or BCL level teams.
Rumors of Phil and Tommy returning to Obradoiro (ACB) - but I'd rather see both move to a BCL or EuroCup team.
Kaza Keane re-signed with his French Pro-A (BCL) club a while back (Le Mans).

SMNT
FIBA World Cup Qualification Window 4: Canada plays Argentina in Victoria, BC on Thursday Aug 25th (tix on sale now). Then at Panama a few days later. Argentina doesn’t have too many NBA players nowadays but they will be available. Campazzo was pretty deadly in the last window.
Hopefully a few more NBA players can play. I think Brissett is likely now that his contract question is sorted along with CoJo who had a family commitment.
Dort and Birch or more a maybe depending on if they are fully healed up. Barrett seems to depend on his contract extension (no idea if that gets sorted out).
Murray I highly doubt considering how carefully the Nuggets want to handle him.
Pangos may be there as well - his contract limbo seems close to being sorted out (any day now). Some recent rumors of Partizan trying to sneak him away from Milano and CSKA perhaps wanting that to happen.

FIBA Rankings still not updated - seem likley because the Asia Cup is in process. Hopefully after that concludes.

[Hair Canada]

Some quick hits from the last couple weeks:

NBA Summer League
Mfiondu Kabengele has a great SL run that landed him a 2-way contract with Boston. Welcome back to the NBA Fi.
AJ Lawson seem to played really well too, but the Mavs have yet to sign him. Talk of it though.
Lindell Wigginton was equal to Lawson and Kabengele and it landed him some sort of deal as, the Bucks announced they re-signed him, but no details on what kind of deal (could be just a Ex10).
Kyle Alexander was decent with the Blazers (SL champs!) but I'm not sure it is enough to get him anything more than a camp invite (if that). They seem to be looking for a depth big though.
Caleb Houstan had 1 really good game, but it seemed enough to land him a 2 year (2 mil per) guaranteed deal.
Nembhard looked ok - nothing spectacular, but a great first game. No word on a signing yet.
Josh Primo went down early with Covid which was disappointing.
Shaedon Sharpe went down first game with an injury (even more disappointing).
Mychal Mulder was waived by the Heat. Not sure where he goes next. I'd like to see him try Europe.
Not sure if there was anybody else worth talking about. Abu Kigab had a great final game (15/10 with solid D) but got no run before that (a shame).


Europe signings
Naz Mitrou Long signs with Olimpia Milano of the EuroLeague.
Dylan Ennis moves to Turkey - Galatasaray (BCL). Lateral moves but he seemed surprised Gran Canaria didn’t want him back.
Tyler Ennis re-signs with Tofas - Had a good healthy year last season
Trae Bell Haynes signs with Buducnost (ABA, EuroCup) - another big step up for for TBH
Mikyle McIntosh moves to Japan's 2nd division after a so-so year in Australia
Caleb Agada moves to Prometey. One of Ukraine's top teams (playing in Latvia) to play in the EuroCup.

Ignas Brazdeikis seems to be in talks with a couple EuroLeague teams (Baskonia and Zalgaris). Kyle Alexnder may be as well (an a number of EuroCup teams). Kyle Wiltjer and Marial Shayok both have a EL rumor or two, but my guess is they both end up with EuroCup or BCL level teams.
Rumors of Phil and Tommy returning to Obradoiro (ACB) - but I'd rather see both move to a BCL or EuroCup team.
Kaza Keane re-signed with his French Pro-A (BCL) club a while back (Le Mans).

SMNT
FIBA World Cup Qualification Window 4: Canada plays Argentina in Victoria, BC on Thursday Aug 25th (tix on sale now). Then at Panama a few days later. Argentina doesn’t have too many NBA players nowadays but they will be available. Campazzo was pretty deadly in the last window.
Hopefully a few more NBA players can play. I think Brissett is likely now that his contract question is sorted along with CoJo who had a family commitment.
Dort and Birch or more a maybe depending on if they are fully healed up. Barrett seems to depend on his contract extension (no idea if that gets sorted out).
Murray I highly doubt considering how carefully the Nuggets want to handle him.
Pangos may be there as well - his contract limbo seems close to being sorted out (any day now). Some recent rumors of Partizan trying to sneak him away from Milano and CSKA perhaps wanting that to happen.

FIBA Rankings still not updated - seem likley because the Asia Cup is in process. Hopefully after that concludes.

Nice overview, mojo. Wiggy, Lawson, and Fio all played really well. All could become legit NBA bench players under the right situation. Alexander too I guess, but he seems further away from the league. Love the energy from Fio on both ends of the floor. I really think he just needs to get a shot. Too bad he's never played for the national team. Wonder if he's interested.

One guy who disappointed me in the games I watched was Primo. He's going to have the perfect situation next year in San Antonio, with no natural playmaker. Could see big minutes and plenty of reps running the team. But from what I've seen, I'm not at all sure he'll be up to it. My major concern is that he just doesn't seem to be able to drive past his man and get into the paint. Too easily contained and lacks the first step burst or enough wiggle with his handle to turn the corner. Rookie Blake Wesley actually looked much more promising on that front. We'll see how things shake up, but I have doubts about Primo breaking out in a big way despite the opportunity. Might be another case of NAW.

[WaltFrazier]

Some quick hits from the last couple weeks:


SMNT
FIBA World Cup Qualification Window 4: Canada plays Argentina in Victoria, BC on Thursday Aug 25th (tix on sale now). Then at Panama a few days later. Argentina doesn’t have too many NBA players nowadays but they will be available. Campazzo was pretty deadly in the last window.
Hopefully a few more NBA players can play. I think Brissett is likely now that his contract question is sorted along with CoJo who had a family commitment.
Dort and Birch or more a maybe depending on if they are fully healed up. Barrett seems to depend on his contract extension (no idea if that gets sorted out).
Murray I highly doubt considering how carefully the Nuggets want to handle him.
Pangos may be there as well - his contract limbo seems close to being sorted out (any day now). Some recent rumors of Partizan trying to sneak him away from Milano and CSKA perhaps wanting that to happen.

FIBA Rankings still not updated - seem likely because the Asia Cup is in process. Hopefully after that concludes.

So are the 4 NBA guys who played in June still going to play in August, along with hopefully a few more NBA guys?

I was so happy when the 4 all travelled to the USVI game after playing in Hamilton. I had read somewhere earlier in this thread that they'd probably only play in Hamilton.

Hopefully Shai's obvious enthusiasm rubs off on more of the NBA guys and brings them out.

[mojo13]

So are the 4 NBA guys who played in June still going to play in August, along with hopefully a few more NBA guys?

I was so happy when the 4 all travelled to the USVI game after playing in Hamilton. I had read somewhere earlier in this thread that they'd probably only play in Hamilton.

Hopefully Shai's obvious enthusiasm rubs off on more of the NBA guys and brings them out.

My weak assumption is that the 4 NBA guys who played Window 3 will indeed play Window 4 (barring any injuries). I have nothing to confirm that and am just going off the precedent set in summer 2018 for the 2019 WC Qualification where the NBA guys who played Window 3 mostly showed for Window 4. And that the whole purpose of this Summer Core is to get guys playing together, building chemistry and FIBA experience. Further, the Argentina game is fairly important and it is on home soil (although not in the GTA closer to most these guys homes).

As for others showing up...my thoughts are above. I think a 2-3 more likely join but not much to base that on other than guys having more time to heal up and sort contract situations. At the very least I'd be surprised if CoJo didn't join.



Edit: AJ Lawson signing with the T-Wolves on a two-way. Good for him.

[WaltFrazier]

The thread about Andrew Wiggins regretting his vaccination got closed quickly. But it raises a question to me. He went through that whole decision, and then got the jab, at the start of last season right? Fall of 2021. So how was he able to play for Canada, in Canada, in those 2 Olympic qualifying games earlier in 2021? He would have been unvaxxed at that time, right?

[Huskies1947]

With all these hockey canada scandals going on - could it pave the way for more funding to Canada basketball?

[And1Skip]

The thread about Andrew Wiggins regretting his vaccination got closed quickly. But it raises a question to me. He went through that whole decision, and then got the jab, at the start of last season right? Fall of 2021. So how was he able to play for Canada, in Canada, in those 2 Olympic qualifying games earlier in 2021? He would have been unvaxxed at that time, right?

A lot of people would not have been fully vaxxed by July 2021 (thats when the qualifying tourney was held) so the federal rule wasn't in place yet. However, there were quarantine and testing rules which I do recall the entire team went through in Victoria before playing.

[SharoneWright]

Indiana believes in Nembhard. Good for the kid. Nice long term investment in his game too should pay dividends for him and the SMNT.

Read on Twitter

[mojo13]

Indiana believes in Nembhard. Good for the kid. Nice long term investment in his game too should pay dividends for him and the SMNT.

Read on Twitter

This is nice to see. After the C position, PG seems the most concerning position for Canada going forward.

We have pretty good depth at the Euro level but not at the NBA level. Especially a playmaking, game manger type like Nembhard.

SGA looked All-World running the point in the Qualifiers so we are set as long as he plays. I'm sure Murray would be pretty good if he ever plays (i'm still doubtful as he seems injured every summer). Personally I really like Pangos, but I admit his D is going to be exploited but medal contending teams. I think he can take us only so far. CoJo is on the decline, looked pretty bad in last year's Olympic Qualifiers (perhaps just massively out of shape and unprepared) and Nurse already showed he'd have Pangos run the point over CoJo if given the choice (2019 WC).

After that you are dropping down to TBH, Kenny Chery, Tyler Ennis, Phil Scrubb, Kaza Keane etc. Solid PGs but would seem a major weak spot if we were relying of them to contend for a medal in the WCs or Olympics.

Hopefully Nembhard fills the void at the NBA level but he still has a ways to go to show he is even better than the Euro PGs.


Note:
Iggy Brazdeikis reported signed with Lithuanian EuroLeague club Zalgaris (Pangos and Hanlan had stints there).
Along with Iggy, Dyshawn Pierrie (Fenerbahce) and Naz Mitrou-Long (Milano) I think that ties for the most Canadians in the EL at any given season.

Of course, Pangos seems a sure thing to sign once he gets his situation sorted (likely Milano).
Kyle Alexander received an offer from Valencia but is weighing his NBA options first.
Perhaps there is still a chance that Shayok or Wiltjer head back to the EuroLeague. Or maybe even a guy like Mychal Mulder (who I think should - but seems happy hanging around the G, NBA 10 day contracts and two-ways his entire career).

[Hair Canada]

There's an interesting dynamic here, probably mostly due to geography. Our borderline NBA players, guys like Lawson, Wigginton, Kabengele, Mulder, Omoruyi, and others, usually stick around the G or with 2-way contracts for years rather than go to the Euroleague or other leading European leagues. If they were French, Spanish, or Serbian, they would almost surely be playing in their local leagues and some with a Euroleague team. After a few years, some might also pop out as leading players. come to think of it, that's probably even true for more steady NBA players like Lyles, Banton, Brissett, Birch, and Boucher.

By the time they get overseas, if at all, these Canadians rarely become Euroleague stars, as it mostly takes time to adjust, find your place, and get used to a different kind of basketball.

As a result, we have 3 times more NBA players than the next non-US country (France). Good for us! But from a national team perspective, that's probably not ideal. Most of our NBA players will have uneven careers, jumping around the league, not getting steady playing time, and never becoming starters and team leaders, which might have been the case if they were playing in Europe starting a younger age. They also don't learn the international game and FIBA rules and generally seem less available to play for Team Canada (often because NBA teams put more pressure on them not to).

[mojo13]

There's an interesting dynamic here, probably mostly due to geography. Our borderline NBA players, guys like Lawson, Wigginton, Kabengele, Mulder, Omoruyi, and others, usually stick around the G or with 2-way contracts for years rather than go to the Euroleague or other leading European leagues. If they were French, Spanish, or Serbian, they would almost surely be playing in their local leagues and some with a Euroleague team. After a few years, some might also pop out as leading players. come to think of it, that's probably even true for more steady NBA players like Lyles, Banton, Brissett, Birch, and Boucher.

By the time they get overseas, if at all, these Canadians rarely become Euroleague stars, as it mostly takes time to adjust, find your place, and get used to a different kind of basketball.

As a result, we have 3 times more NBA players than the next non-US country (France). Good for us! But from a national team perspective, that's probably not ideal. Most of our NBA players will have uneven careers, jumping around the league, not getting steady playing time, and never becoming starters and team leaders, which might have been the case if they were playing in Europe starting a younger age. They also don't learn the international game and FIBA rules and generally seem less available to play for Team Canada (often because NBA teams put more pressure on them not to).

I think we have discussed this in the past, but it is spot on and I wholeheartedly agree.

Canadian fans typically have a sense of bravado that we have so many more NBA players than France/Spain/Serbia etc so we should obviously be competing for medal in international events. What they don't realize is this is artificial in many ways as Hair outlined above.

Mirotic was notorious for coming in here and telling us a good EuroLeague player is much more valuable than a end of the bench NBA player in international competition. I was resistant to that idea early on, years ago, but it has become so obvious over the years.

Think of the game experience European based stars form over the years. High pressure situations, where they are the ones relied on to make critical decisions and plays. They have magnitudes of more experience than end of the bench NBA players. The NBA player maybe be able to outjump or out run them, but they can't out play them. The lower level Canadian NBA players are immature and stunted relative to their French/Spanish/Serbian counterparts playing in the EuroLeague.

It is why I've always been so high on Kevin Pangos. I wish we had a couple more EL stars like him to help bind the inexperienced (with FIBA) NBA players together . And why I've been hoping for Dyshawn Pierre to join as a role player (but I guess an aging Ejim is sufficient).

I'm always hoping for more of these borderline guys to head to Europe and thrive. Think how valuable Nik Stauskas could be if had stuck it out on Europe. Long overdue for Naz Long and Mychal Mulder needed to head there years ago. They likely would have made way more in Europe too, but I guess the NBA is always the dream.

[mojo13]

Read on Twitter

?s=20&t=Wala_V6gZCMxq0Vg6oW_0Q

[mojo13]

Kyle Alexander signs with Valencia to compete in the EuroLeague (and Spains ACB).

Good for Kyle Alexander and his continued development.

Bad for Team Canada's Winter Core (very bad) as he likley will not be available for WC Qualficiation Window 5 and 6 (home/away vs VEN, home vs PAN, away vs ARG). Not a sure thing, but we have never had access to EL players in the past (limited sample) as the EL doesnt accomodate FIBA with scheduling breaks (that is being negotiated though so maybe the figure something out).
Huge whole in the middle without him.



With Mitrou-Long, Pierre, Brazdeikis, Alexander and likely Pangos that is by far the most Canadians playing in the EuroLeague in any given season (maybe 2 or 3 max in the past). Shayok and Wiltjer still have a chance to land with a EL team too. Mulder too if he actually goes that path.

[Hair Canada]

There's an interesting dynamic here, probably mostly due to geography. Our borderline NBA players, guys like Lawson, Wigginton, Kabengele, Mulder, Omoruyi, and others, usually stick around the G or with 2-way contracts for years rather than go to the Euroleague or other leading European leagues. If they were French, Spanish, or Serbian, they would almost surely be playing in their local leagues and some with a Euroleague team. After a few years, some might also pop out as leading players. come to think of it, that's probably even true for more steady NBA players like Lyles, Banton, Brissett, Birch, and Boucher.

By the time they get overseas, if at all, these Canadians rarely become Euroleague stars, as it mostly takes time to adjust, find your place, and get used to a different kind of basketball.

As a result, we have 3 times more NBA players than the next non-US country (France). Good for us! But from a national team perspective, that's probably not ideal. Most of our NBA players will have uneven careers, jumping around the league, not getting steady playing time, and never becoming starters and team leaders, which might have been the case if they were playing in Europe starting a younger age. They also don't learn the international game and FIBA rules and generally seem less available to play for Team Canada (often because NBA teams put more pressure on them not to).

I think we have discussed this in the past, but it is spot on and I wholeheartedly agree.

Canadian fans typically have a sense of bravado that we have so many more NBA players than France/Spain/Serbia etc so we should obviously be competing for medal in international events. What they don't realize is this is artificial in many ways as Hair outlined above.

Mirotic was notorious for coming in here and telling us a good EuroLeague player is much more valuable than a end of the bench NBA player in international competition. I was resistant to that idea early on, years ago, but it has become so obvious over the years.

Think of the game experience European based stars form over the years. High pressure situations, where they are the ones relied on to make critical decisions and plays. They have magnitudes of more experience than end of the bench NBA players. The NBA player maybe be able to outjump or out run them, but they can't out play them. The lower level Canadian NBA players are immature and stunted relative to their French/Spanish/Serbian counterparts playing in the EuroLeague.

It is why I've always been so high on Kevin Pangos. I wish we had a couple more EL stars like him to help bind the inexperienced (with FIBA) NBA players together . And why I've been hoping for Dyshawn Pierre to join as a role player (but I guess an aging Ejim is sufficient).

I'm always hoping for more of these borderline guys to head to Europe and thrive. Think how valuable Nik Stauskas could be if had stuck it out on Europe. Long overdue for Naz Long and Mychal Mulder needed to head there years ago. They likely would have made way more in Europe too, but I guess the NBA is always the dream.

Like you, as a Canadian basketball fan, I sympathize with the hope that some will develop a meaningful career overseas sooner rather than later.

And yet, from a personal standpoint, I can't blame any of them for chasing the dream. Economically, that's probably a wise gamble.

If Dillon Brooks or Lu Dort were French (or Spanish), they would maybe be picked in the second round and then stashed away for a few years. They would likely be good Euroleague players, but not without question marks about how their game might translate to the NBA (especially given the inefficient scoring for both). They might have eventually reached the NBA at an older age and would struggle some to get to the starter status they currently have. And they would be quite unlikely to ever make 15 or 20 million a year. For comparison, are these two better players than two-time Euroleague champion and finals MVP Vasilije Micic, who at 28yo still hasn't found his way into the NBA (he's going to stay in Europe for at least another year)?

Or we can take Chris Boucher, who at age 26 was still largely considered a (very) borderline NBA prospect and could have easily gone to play in Europe. But he decided to stick around with the G-league and then as an end-of-rotation player. And he was eventually rewarded with first a 7mil per year contract and now a 12mil per year, far more than even the greatest Euroleague stars could ever dream of.

As a young player, you see these, and the decision to stick around some more and see what happens seems quite rational.

[mojo13]

So this is somewhat of a suprise to me and would appreciate some insight.

Aher Uguak signs with Niners Chemnitz in Germany’s BBL as his first European pro contract. I don't know much at all about Aher, but he had a seemingly unremarkable NCAA career. 9/4/2 as senior with Loyola Chicago last year. 24 years old, 6'7, 225 wing.

Playing the CEBL this summer and seems decent as a rookie with the Stingers (9/3/2 on 50/39/73). It just seems players of his resume start in a way lower league in Europe (Finland, Sweden, Portugal, Bulgaria, Georgia, Netherlands, Switzerland something like that).

The BBL is still a secondary league but usually a starter league for higher profile NCAA players. Isiaha Mike for example was has serious discussion as a NBA draft prospect. Young guys who can succeed in the BBL likley should be on the radar for the SMNT for the winter team core.

The jump to Europe isn't easy and plenty of seemingly higher pedigree players struggled, were cut and had to recover in a lower league (TBH, XRM, Jevohn Blair, Jackson Rowe, Elijah Mitrou Long and plenty of others).

Maybe the CEBL is now enough of a "prove it" league, I can't tell yet. Yet at this point I'd be surprised if he finishes the year in the BBL. Those that signed him know a heck of allot more than me. But this alone pushes him onto my radar enough to keep tabs on his season.

Anyone know much about him. Much upside here?

[steadysoul]

There's an interesting dynamic here, probably mostly due to geography. Our borderline NBA players, guys like Lawson, Wigginton, Kabengele, Mulder, Omoruyi, and others, usually stick around the G or with 2-way contracts for years rather than go to the Euroleague or other leading European leagues. If they were French, Spanish, or Serbian, they would almost surely be playing in their local leagues and some with a Euroleague team. After a few years, some might also pop out as leading players. come to think of it, that's probably even true for more steady NBA players like Lyles, Banton, Brissett, Birch, and Boucher.

By the time they get overseas, if at all, these Canadians rarely become Euroleague stars, as it mostly takes time to adjust, find your place, and get used to a different kind of basketball.

As a result, we have 3 times more NBA players than the next non-US country (France). Good for us! But from a national team perspective, that's probably not ideal. Most of our NBA players will have uneven careers, jumping around the league, not getting steady playing time, and never becoming starters and team leaders, which might have been the case if they were playing in Europe starting a younger age. They also don't learn the international game and FIBA rules and generally seem less available to play for Team Canada (often because NBA teams put more pressure on them not to).

I would bet a lot of money that Canada would have a lot less NBA players if they weren't so close to the US. It's not like there is another major league on this side of the Atlantic.