GT: 7/13 | Summer League | Raptors Vs Magic | 6EST | SN 360

[tecumseh18]

Y’all have really lost y’all’s minds if you think Battle is better than Gradey lol. I don’t think people on here really watch the games, they just look up boxscores and make judgements off that solely with zero context lol. Gradey takes much tougher shots than Battle and whether y’all think Gradey can shoot or not the league believes he can shoot and guards him as such. Gradey has so much gravity and is a movement shooter who has audacity. He takes shots Battle couldn’t even and wouldn’t even dream of. Battle is strictly a set 3 point shooter.

Gradey was actually a very good set shooter last season which so many people ignore because his overall 3 point percentage was just average. And the reason being was the type of shots he took. Samson Folk says it all the time, Gradey shot something like 43%-46% on wide open set 3 point shots. He’s great at that, but Raptors have higher expectations for him and don’t allow him to just take those easy shots.

Gradey flashed so much to start last season. Yes it did not last but he showed us what he could be. Battle could never. When Gradey figures it out he’s going to be so much more than just a catch and shoot 3 point shooter. He has some exciting potential on offense. And it’s funny bc everyone here hates the defense first players we pick bc they can’t shoot, but the one time we draft offence with no defence and the potential for Gradey to be a special offensive player is clearly still there, everyone gives up on him so early bc he isn’t what they want when they want it. Growth isn’t linear and doesn’t happen at the pace you want it to lol. That’s not how it works. Have some patience.

It's the popular thing to do, write off Dick.

I'm just here buying everyone's stock in the guy.

I'm adopting the approach I learned from the old scouts in Moneyball. If a guy has a knockout girlfriend, that means he has confidence.

By that measure, Gradey could be the league MVP by the end of his rookie contract. Or at least believe he's capable of it.

[Thaddy]

Another flip flopping special. What has changed in the past month to make you change your opinion on Shead? I love the contradictions and the hot takes.

You can look at the numbers. Eye test wise he looks great. He makes a great play every now and then. But the numbers tell another story.

Looks like you’re not looking at the numbers either. 77% from the line is not concerning.

32% from 3pt range and a TS% below 50 is concerning.

[MEDIC]

I think Gradey is the most natural scorer on this team, however he has some huge holes to fix in his game. .

What? Expand on this. What does natural mean?

How can he be a more natural scorer than BI? He's not even a more natural scorer than RJ.

Ball handling & getting to your spots is such a big part of being a scorer. Gradey is not a good ball handler.

[OakleyDokely]

Shead is destined to be a back-up type guard so I'm not really too concerned about his efficiency. I look at him as a change of pace guard who you put in the game for his defensive intensity and aggressiveness. Sometimes guys like this can change the direction of a game by taking a charge or creating a turnover. If he shot the ball well too, he would've been drafted before the Raps pick in mid 2nd.

[NinjaBro]

The standout of summer league so far has been Mogbo. He picked up where he left off defensively, but he looks more decisive and sure handed offensively.

He doesn't have stone hands around the rim anymore which is a nice surprise. He been getting good looks from passes by Shead and Martin as well.

I'm most impressed with Shead, he's been great. Unbelievable pickup in the second round.

[Raptorfan2012]

Its time to move Chomche to the 3rd C position (goodbye to guys like Castleton). We no longer need to sign these type of guys to 10 day contracts; just like Chomche play some mins there.

[Dennis 37]

Its time to move Chomche to the 3rd C position (goodbye to guys like Castleton). We no longer need to sign these type of guys to 10 day contracts; just like Chomche play some mins there.

I didn't think there was room for Castleton on the roster anyway. Figured he and AJ Lawson would be squeezed out.

I don't know how they can let Lawson go, but the roster is tight.

[djsunyc]

The standout of summer league so far has been Mogbo. He picked up where he left off defensively, but he looks more decisive and sure handed offensively.

He doesn't have stone hands around the rim anymore which is a nice surprise. He been getting good looks from passes by Shead and Martin as well.

I'm most impressed with Shead, he's been great. Unbelievable pickup in the second round.

i'm not seeing it yet scoring wise with mogbo. he's still looks a bit shaky on any non-dunk attempt.

[djsunyc]

Its time to move Chomche to the 3rd C position (goodbye to guys like Castleton). We no longer need to sign these type of guys to 10 day contracts; just like Chomche play some mins there.

I didn't think there was room for Castleton on the roster anyway. Figured he and AJ Lawson would be squeezed out.

I don't know how they can let Lawson go, but the roster is tight.

lawson may be a little bit more reliable than gradey/jakobe right now and that's more due to age. i think you need to chose development over slightly more reliability so i'd much rather jakobe + gradey get all the minutes lawson may get.

[Psubs]

Shead is destined to be a back-up type guard so I'm not really too concerned about his efficiency. I look at him as a change of pace guard who you put in the game for his defensive intensity and aggressiveness. Sometimes guys like this can change the direction of a game by taking a charge or creating a turnover. If he shot the ball well too, he would've been drafted before the Raps pick in mid 2nd.

He's FVV 2.0 that can finish at the rim.

[YogurtProducer]

Do you want me the post the list of scrubs who shot 40% just in the NBA last year? There's no shortage of guys capable of doing exactly that in low minute/usage roles as Battle did; it doesn't make them good players at the NBA level (particularly if they do nothing else of actual value).

Nah - I can do it for you.

Spoiler:

Seth Curry
Zach LaVine
Taurean Prince
Ty Jerome
Vit Krejci
Nicolas Batum
Harrison Barnes
Keon Ellis
Luke Kennard
Aaron Nesmith
Kevin Durant
A.J. Green
Grayson Allen
Alec Burks
Brice Sensabaugh
Karl-Anthony Towns
Norman Powell
Nikola Jokić
Malik Beasley
Sam Hauser
Gary Trent Jr.
Tyus Jones
Rui Hachimura
Isaiah Joe
Kristaps Porziņģis
Luguentz Dort
Dorian Finney-Smith
Mike Conley
Amir Coffey
Payton Pritchard
Collin Sexton
Royce O'Neale
Georges Niang
Jamison Battle
De'Andre Hunter
Nikola Vučević
Kyrie Irving
Darius Garland

Shockingly (or not) - not a lot of scrubs. What Battle did last year was impressive and we can only hope Dick can do one year.

No and no. If Gradey was asked to solely hit wide open standing spot shots (and do literally nothing else on the court like Battle), he'd have a better percentage overall than him too.

Love your confidence when there are legit stats out there that can just show you that you are well... wrong.

Battle C+S 3 = 40.4%
Dick C+S 3 = 38.3%

Battle open 3 = 41.6%
Dick open 3 = 35.3%

Battle wide open 3 = 42.3%
Dick wide open 3 = 43.0%

Defensively, Battle is also better than Dick. Generally in better positions, a little stronger, etc.

Dick certainly has more potential as an off-ball guy running through screens but so far it is all potential - he really hasn't done much to show that he can do that at an NBA level at all. He frankly has been quite bad at it.

Based off their last season (because IDC what happened in 2021 when making decisions lol) Battle was a better player than Dick. Doesn't mean he will be going forward but if we start this year and Battle and Dick perform the same as 2024/25, the minutes are Battles.

[YogurtProducer]

Shead is destined to be a back-up type guard so I'm not really too concerned about his efficiency. I look at him as a change of pace guard who you put in the game for his defensive intensity and aggressiveness. Sometimes guys like this can change the direction of a game by taking a charge or creating a turnover. If he shot the ball well too, he would've been drafted before the Raps pick in mid 2nd.

He's FVV 2.0 that can finish at the rim.

Shead is gonna shoot the 3 at a high level? (which is arguably the best offensive skill between the 2 of them)

[WuTang_CMB]

Chucky also changed the game yesterday when he came in i forget when. His defense is pretty fun and he has a decent shot. High alert also. Good luck to IQ it will only help his game. I hope he can step it up defensively next season but i understand thats not his game. Just need to be neutral there but lethal hitting shots.

edit: 2nd quarter. got us back with his defense

[Raptorfan2012]

Its time to move Chomche to the 3rd C position (goodbye to guys like Castleton). We no longer need to sign these type of guys to 10 day contracts; just let Chomche play some mins there.

[Dalek]

I really liked Chucky Hepburn's game. Absolute dog on defense and can shoot off the dribble and run an offense. That was a great signing.

Alijah Martin was not as effective this time out but I still love how physical he is.

The Magic play so similar to Toronto it is hard to judge because no ball was safe tonight and it made it impossible to run an offense.

Noah Penda was probably the best player on the floor for me. He was so effective on defense. Jace also looks like a steal. He is so shifty and strong with the ball. He hates to pass it, but he looks like a fearless scorer.

[Raptorfan2012]

Its time to move Chomche to the 3rd C position (goodbye to guys like Castleton). We no longer need to sign these type of guys to 10 day contracts; just like Chomche play some mins there.

I didn't think there was room for Castleton on the roster anyway. Figured he and AJ Lawson would be squeezed out.

I don't know how they can let Lawson go, but the roster is tight.

lawson may be a little bit more reliable than gradey/jakobe right now and that's more due to age. i think you need to chose development over slightly more reliability so i'd much rather jakobe + gradey get all the minutes lawson may get.

Lawson can stay until his contract is guaranteed - at least he provides a bit of offence off the bench.

[Knightro]

Good game last night. I can't say it was aesthetically pleasing, but it was a true classic Summer League game with a million fouls and turnovers.

Lawson has turned himself into a nice player. Not sure what your rotation is looking like, but I could see him forcing his way into it at some point down the road. He's just so much improved from where he was.

I actually really liked basically everybody off y'all's bench last night too. Chomche was good. Hepburn was good. Mogbo was good.

CMB showed plenty of flashes. He brings so many winning traits and skills to the table. I like him too.

[PushDaRock]

Let’s be real here, you didn’t watch any of these guys in college. You’re not fooling anyone. lol.

Considering he just brought up Jalen Harris as an example of a guy who shot 40% from 3 and is out of the league makes that even more clear

Do you want me the post the list of scrubs who shot 40% just in the NBA last year? There's no shortage of guys capable of doing exactly that in low minute/usage roles as Battle did; it doesn't make them good players at the NBA level (particularly if they do nothing else of actual value).

I don’t know why he cares what Battle did 3 years before he was even on the Raptors.

So the fact that Battle was struggling at the NCAA level at the same age as Gradey Dick is now isn't relevant how you view them as players? If Gradey Dick was in college this year, he'd be averaging 30 PPG. He's a far superior player to Battle and has loads more potential. I cannot fathom why anybody would want to bench him at this point.

Battle 1.8 made threes per game in 17.7 mpg, 3.6 3P/8.9 3PA per 36 on 40.5%
Gradey 2.1 made threes per game in 29.4 mpg, 2.6 3P/7.4 3PA per 36 on 35%

Battle's 3 point shooting last year was on pretty significant volume so it's not something to just overlook. Sure, go ahead and post that list of scrubs that shot 40%, but I would bet none of them made over 100 threes.

[deck]

Do you want me the post the list of scrubs who shot 40% just in the NBA last year? There's no shortage of guys capable of doing exactly that in low minute/usage roles as Battle did; it doesn't make them good players at the NBA level (particularly if they do nothing else of actual value).

Nah - I can do it for you.

Spoiler:

Seth Curry
Zach LaVine
Taurean Prince
Ty Jerome
Vit Krejci
Nicolas Batum
Harrison Barnes
Keon Ellis
Luke Kennard
Aaron Nesmith
Kevin Durant
A.J. Green
Grayson Allen
Alec Burks
Brice Sensabaugh
Karl-Anthony Towns
Norman Powell
Nikola Jokić
Malik Beasley
Sam Hauser
Gary Trent Jr.
Tyus Jones
Rui Hachimura
Isaiah Joe
Kristaps Porziņģis
Luguentz Dort
Dorian Finney-Smith
Mike Conley
Amir Coffey
Payton Pritchard
Collin Sexton
Royce O'Neale
Georges Niang
Jamison Battle
De'Andre Hunter
Nikola Vučević
Kyrie Irving
Darius Garland

Shockingly (or not) - not a lot of scrubs. What Battle did last year was impressive and we can only hope Dick can do one year.

Love your confidence when there are legit stats out there that can just show you that you are well... wrong.

Battle C+S 3 = 40.4%
Dick C+S 3 = 38.3%

Battle open 3 = 41.6%
Dick open 3 = 35.3%

Battle wide open 3 = 42.3%
Dick wide open 3 = 43.0%

Defensively, Battle is also better than Dick. Generally in better positions, a little stronger, etc.

Dick certainly has more potential as an off-ball guy running through screens but so far it is all potential - he really hasn't done much to show that he can do that at an NBA level at all. He frankly has been quite bad at it.

Based off their last season (because IDC what happened in 2021 when making decisions lol) Battle was a better player than Dick. Doesn't mean he will be going forward but if we start this year and Battle and Dick perform the same as 2024/25, the minutes are Battles.

I disagree on the bold-ed part. At the start of last season, Gradey did demonstrate this capability. This is entirely based on me simply watching games, but there was a stretch of about 20 games at the start of last season where he was demonstrating this capability. I also felt through the course of last year, he was highly disrespected by the refs, which further hurt his non-three point shooting stats.

All subjective based on what I observed watching the games, but I don't think it is accurate to say he didn't demonstrate a more fulsome offensive game than Battle has, or to say that he was quite bad in this regard.

[DG88]

Do you want me the post the list of scrubs who shot 40% just in the NBA last year? There's no shortage of guys capable of doing exactly that in low minute/usage roles as Battle did; it doesn't make them good players at the NBA level (particularly if they do nothing else of actual value).

Nah - I can do it for you.

Spoiler:

Seth Curry
Zach LaVine
Taurean Prince
Ty Jerome
Vit Krejci
Nicolas Batum
Harrison Barnes
Keon Ellis
Luke Kennard
Aaron Nesmith
Kevin Durant
A.J. Green
Grayson Allen
Alec Burks
Brice Sensabaugh
Karl-Anthony Towns
Norman Powell
Nikola Jokić
Malik Beasley
Sam Hauser
Gary Trent Jr.
Tyus Jones
Rui Hachimura
Isaiah Joe
Kristaps Porziņģis
Luguentz Dort
Dorian Finney-Smith
Mike Conley
Amir Coffey
Payton Pritchard
Collin Sexton
Royce O'Neale
Georges Niang
Jamison Battle
De'Andre Hunter
Nikola Vučević
Kyrie Irving
Darius Garland

Shockingly (or not) - not a lot of scrubs. What Battle did last year was impressive and we can only hope Dick can do one year.

Love your confidence when there are legit stats out there that can just show you that you are well... wrong.

Battle C+S 3 = 40.4%
Dick C+S 3 = 38.3%

Battle open 3 = 41.6%
Dick open 3 = 35.3%

Battle wide open 3 = 42.3%
Dick wide open 3 = 43.0%

Defensively, Battle is also better than Dick. Generally in better positions, a little stronger, etc.

Dick certainly has more potential as an off-ball guy running through screens but so far it is all potential - he really hasn't done much to show that he can do that at an NBA level at all. He frankly has been quite bad at it.

Based off their last season (because IDC what happened in 2021 when making decisions lol) Battle was a better player than Dick. Doesn't mean he will be going forward but if we start this year and Battle and Dick perform the same as 2024/25, the minutes are Battles.

Battle is the perfect role player, plays hard and sticks to his role as a knock down 3 point shooter. Gradey has more to his offensive game than just being a knock down 3 point shooter. He's more of a scorer than a shooter, you can see that with his shot diet and why his potential is higher than Battle's. Yet Gradey needs to show consistency on his shot and playmaking ability. Then there's the defensive side where he can take some charges as a help defender but man he either gets blown by or gets lost. Part of that is getting stronger and smarter. This will be a telling year for him.