Thank Nation! Pre-Lottery: Denver 9th, NY pick 7th (PART 4)

[deeps6x]

I certainly don't do as much scouting as most in this thread so can someone tell me why Denzel Valentine isn't rated higher?
Great shooter with range, Rebounds, Passes and looks like a glue guy. I think a few teams will regret passing on this guy. How would everyone feel with him as our pick at 9?

Read his DX profile. Basically, terrible defender, and had difficulty against bigger, longer wing defenders that are rare in college but more common in the NBA. I'm sure the fact he's a senior doesn't help.

DX was overly harsh on his D for some reason. He was part of one of the best defensive teams in all of college ball. His SG and SF were both midgets at around 6 feet tall, so he always had to guard the biggest, fastest players on the other side. He wasn't being hidden, at least not so much this season as in past seasons. It was almost like DX wrote it up in November and then didn't watch the games after. They do have it right on his non-athletic body. The guy is not great on D, but not as horrible as they try to make him sound either. He won't be Jose bad. But hey, if y'all believe Valentine is so horrible on D, then you must also think that Davis is AMAZING on D, because someone was making that team excellent on D, and it sure as hell wasn't the two midgets, Forbes/Harris. Statistically Valentine, Davis and Costello were carrying them on D. But believe what you want. Too late for the eye test. Now all you can do is watch 'highlight' clips on youtube.

Valentine will probably go in the 12-16 range in the draft. I thought he would be a great pick for us when it looked like we were going to go 12, but at #9, I'd prefer Rabb or Davis. Or possibly Luwawu.

Pass on Skal.

[Double Helix]

I think every time I watched Skal Labissiere he either disappointed in the actual game or I was incapable of projecting long-term on him because of how obvious Murray looked.

I've since watched more and caught more of his good games and thought less about where he is as a big and more about what he's blessed with. His mobility is off the charts. I'm talking Nerlens Noel mobile. He covers a ton of ground and showcases rare coordination, second jump, and overall explosiveness for a big. The jump shot looks unblockable.

He needs a lot of work. He's still raw. He needs to put more weight on and it may not be easy to do. Of all the lotto prospects, he's probably further away from his ceiling than everyone but Bender but I now understand more of the hype and the Raptors should be less concerned with who will be best over the next couple years and more focused on finding the type of player who many around the league will wish they had 4 years out and who might be the type who could go top 6 in a re-draft experiment that far out. Maybe Skal Labissiere is that guy?

I'm on board with him as a long-term prospect. High upside. But his defensive potential seems easier to imagine initially and should minimize some of the downside risk of his floor.

[MEDIC]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Mike_Schmitz/status/723212576566317056[/tweet]

Thanks for posting.

These are the reasons I like him as a prospect:

What Jackson lacks in height (standing somewhere around 6'0 barefoot, possibly less) he makes up for with a chiseled frame, a 6'5 wingspan and tremendous athleticism. He's a powerful guard blessed with excellent quickness and elite-level leaping ability....

Jackson's consistency shooting off the catch (41% with feet set--Synergy) allows him to see time operating off the ball, which gives his coaching staff nice flexibility in how to utilize him and his teammates. He's very good out of the corners, and moves off the ball intelligently, something he has experience with spending two years sharing a backcourt with another PG in Jerian Grant. This is a major positive in today's NBA, where almost every team likes to utilize multiple playmakers in concert for significant portions of the game now.

Jackson's strong frame, quick first step and ability to operate at different speeds gives him great potential as a pick and roll, isolation and transition playmaker/scorer as well.....

He shows great flashes in this area at times, using a low and tight handle to create space and weave in and out of traffic with short, choppy strides, and a powerful first step to blow by defenders and get to the front of the rim, where he can finish through contact very effectively.

Defensively, Jackson's swift hands, quick feet, long arms and strong frame gives him a good baseline to develop into an above average stopper in time, despite his lack of size.

Then the article goes on to talk about how Jackson doesn't utilize his athletic gifts as much as he could in various elements of the game & how he looks indecisive at times. That's why I think there is a lot more untapped potential in him. This season was his first as a primary ball handler & primary scorer, so he still has a ton to learn.

All the tools are there to be an above average NBA player at minimum though.

[Mark_83]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Mike_Schmitz/status/723212576566317056[/tweet]

Thanks for posting.

These are the reasons I like him as a prospect:

What Jackson lacks in height (standing somewhere around 6'0 barefoot, possibly less) he makes up for with a chiseled frame, a 6'5 wingspan and tremendous athleticism. He's a powerful guard blessed with excellent quickness and elite-level leaping ability....

Jackson's consistency shooting off the catch (41% with feet set--Synergy) allows him to see time operating off the ball, which gives his coaching staff nice flexibility in how to utilize him and his teammates. He's very good out of the corners, and moves off the ball intelligently, something he has experience with spending two years sharing a backcourt with another PG in Jerian Grant. This is a major positive in today's NBA, where almost every team likes to utilize multiple playmakers in concert for significant portions of the game now.

Jackson's strong frame, quick first step and ability to operate at different speeds gives him great potential as a pick and roll, isolation and transition playmaker/scorer as well.....

He shows great flashes in this area at times, using a low and tight handle to create space and weave in and out of traffic with short, choppy strides, and a powerful first step to blow by defenders and get to the front of the rim, where he can finish through contact very effectively.

Defensively, Jackson's swift hands, quick feet, long arms and strong frame gives him a good baseline to develop into an above average stopper in time, despite his lack of size.

Then the article goes on to talk about how Jackson doesn't utilize his athletic gifts as much as he could in various elements of the game & how he looks indecisive at times. That's why I think there is a lot more untapped potential in him. This season was his first as a primary ball handler & primary scorer, so he still has a ton to learn.

All the tools are there to be an above average NBA player at minimum though.

I'd love to draft Jackson if we could move Delon + our own pick for a pick in the mid teens to take a guy like Davis/Prince/Luwawu/Skal.

Getting Jackson + one of those guys would be a great haul.

[0 - 100]

Jackson is definitely intriguing. Is now the time to find Lowry's replacement considering we probably won't be picking in the lottery for a while? It definitely makes a lot of sense.

[Fast_Feets]

I want Gary Payton II. the benefit maybe we can pull Gary payton out to be an assistant coach. how cool would that be.

The kid is an athletic stud.

[0 - 100]

I want Gary Payton II. the benefit maybe we can pull Gary payton out to be an assistant coach. how cool would that be.

The kid is an athletic stud.

Gary Payton and Stackhouse. Feels like NBA 2k2

[OAKLEY_2]

I'd love to draft Jackson if we could move Delon + our own pick for a pick in the mid teens to take a guy like Davis/Prince/Luwawu/Skal.

Getting Jackson + one of those guys would be a great haul.

Realistically I think MU tries to trade up for Brown, Murray or Hield. Fails. Picks Luwawu.

You are sleeping on Delon. It would be poor management on our part to give up on players we just drafted 15 minutes ago. We need to add to the stable not flip one last year for another this year. That is essentially like giving up on the development of a pick.

Also, Delon has given every indication he will be a pretty good two way guard when given the minutes/opportunity. The smart money is on them letting JJ walk and wanting a forward.

[MEDIC]

I'd love to draft Jackson if we could move Delon + our own pick for a pick in the mid teens to take a guy like Davis/Prince/Luwawu/Skal.

Getting Jackson + one of those guys would be a great haul.

That would actually be a great plan & I could see Masai pulling off something along those lines.

We'd get a higher end PG prospect, plus a decent PF prospect.

I like......

I wonder if we could pry away 13 from the Suns (who have multiple picks in the 1st round).

I think Jackson is one of those prospects that Masai & Casey are going to really get attached to based on his personal history (lots of adversity), character, NBA readiness & ceiling.

Will they pick him though? Who knows.....

[twiggy2]

24 days till the lottery. I don't care if it is less then a percent chance for pick 2 or 3. I am still excited. I kind of want to go guard with the knicks pick and hope a player like thon maker is still available late. Go for the home run at the end of the draft

[0 - 100]

I'd love to draft Jackson if we could move Delon + our own pick for a pick in the mid teens to take a guy like Davis/Prince/Luwawu/Skal.

Getting Jackson + one of those guys would be a great haul.

That would actually be a great plan & I could see Masai pulling off something along those lines.

We'd get a higher end PG prospect, plus a decent PF prospect.

I like......

I wonder if we could pry away 13 from the Suns (who have multiple picks in the 1st round).

I think Jackson is one of those prospects that Masai & Casey are going to really get attached to based on his personal history (lots of adversity), character, NBA readiness & ceiling.

Will they pick him though? Who knows.....

Medic how's DJ's floor game. Can he run a team?

[rapsdotcom]

I'd love to draft Jackson if we could move Delon + our own pick for a pick in the mid teens to take a guy like Davis/Prince/Luwawu/Skal.

Getting Jackson + one of those guys would be a great haul.

That would actually be a great plan & I could see Masai pulling off something along those lines.

We'd get a higher end PG prospect, plus a decent PF prospect.

I like......

I wonder if we could pry away 13 from the Suns (who have multiple picks in the 1st round).

I think Jackson is one of those prospects that Masai & Casey are going to really get attached to based on his personal history (lots of adversity), character, NBA readiness & ceiling.

Will they pick him though? Who knows.....

Medic how's DJ's floor game. Can he run a team?

Not Medic but have watched him for a couple years. Can get into the paint at will and the way ND plays that means he's great at collapsing the D and finding shooters. He's just so quick and athletic that he really disrupts a defence's structure so opportunities arise for his teammates. He still has a bit to learn about organizing an offence but he certainly isn't a "mindless" type of athlete. That's why I think it's great be stuck around 3 years at ND instead of leaning before he learned more of the nuances of the game.
To me, he's the closest thing to a young Lowry clone you could find.

[MEDIC]

That would actually be a great plan & I could see Masai pulling off something along those lines.

We'd get a higher end PG prospect, plus a decent PF prospect.

I like......

I wonder if we could pry away 13 from the Suns (who have multiple picks in the 1st round).

I think Jackson is one of those prospects that Masai & Casey are going to really get attached to based on his personal history (lots of adversity), character, NBA readiness & ceiling.

Will they pick him though? Who knows.....

Medic how's DJ's floor game. Can he run a team?

Not Medic but have watched him for a couple years. Can get into the paint at will and the way ND plays that means he's great at collapsing the D and finding shooters. He's just so quick and athletic that he really disrupts a defence's structure so opportunities arise for his teammates. He still has a bit to learn about organizing an offence but he certainly isn't a "mindless" type of athlete. That's why I think it's great be stuck around 3 years at ND instead of leaning before he learned more of the nuances of the game.
To me, he's the closest thing to a young Lowry clone you could find.

I'd agree with this. Has more of a draw & kick game like Cojo. He doesn't have elite PG skills. Far from it, but he is more than adequate for a backup right now (with lots of room to grow).

He's still developing & lucky for us, he'd have an excellent mentor in Lowry for his type of game/ skill level.

As far as basic skills go, I think his ball handling needs some work.....but again his handles are more than adequate & will get stronger over the next few years.

[0 - 100]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1548RPUa1W0[/youtube]

great story

[andyo]

Draftexpress had Jackson listed out of the lottery earlier on in the year but good to finally see the recognition he deserves. Him, Davis, and maybe Rabb are the most intriguing prospects to me around our pick. I'd lean heavily right now towards Jackson. I'm also a huge fan of Jaylen Brown but I can't see him dropping.

[TankNation123]

derozan is trash man

[Financials]

TWO LIVES STRONG IN MINNESOTA WITH WIGGINS KAT AND THIBS!!!

$100 says minni makes it to the WCF before we make the ECF!

[TheGoodDoctor]

If we lose this series not even winning the #2 pick would make me feel better.

[kidr1211]

Can someone explain to me why dunn is a projected top 5 pick? I've never really understood it

[Left Side Drive]

If we lose this series not even winning the #2 pick would make me feel better.

Losing in the first round increases the chances of Casey and DD not returning and a 2nd overall pick could be a game changing move for our franchise. But not immediate more so in the next 3-4 years.

Obviously, we want this current team to make it far in these playoffs but there is that possibility that the Pacers take us out.