Official RJ Barrett Thread

[HumbleRen]

His offence was absolutely a huge issue in NYK. He was horrifically inefficient.

Sure but his defence was a bigger issue.

Why do you think their starting line up became exponentially better when OG took RJ’s place? Because OG is all of a sudden a great offensive player? OG didn’t even average 15 points a night with them.

What they needed was someone who could defend at a high level and have shooting gravity from the 3. RJ does neither of that, even with all of his improvements that he’s made since joining our team. Hitting wide open 3’s is not same as having shooting gravity.

RJ was a high usage player scoring on 53% TS. OG is a low usage player scoring on 60% TS. OG is a much better fit for them on offence. RJ was just taking possessions away from more efficient scorers on the team.

Sure, OG being a better defender has helped them as well, but getting rid of a high volume, low efficiency chucker has made a huge difference.

The bigger difference was them going from the worst defence in the league in December to 2nd best defence in the league once OG got traded there.

[mtcan]

RJ is not a serious long term piece here. He'll play his contract out and move on.

You keep saying that to yourself. RJ is part of the core and I don't mind having him here if he can keep playing within himself and continue efficient production. He's ok on defence but not the worst.

[Boogie!]

Sure but his defence was a bigger issue.

Why do you think their starting line up became exponentially better when OG took RJ’s place? Because OG is all of a sudden a great offensive player? OG didn’t even average 15 points a night with them.

What they needed was someone who could defend at a high level and have shooting gravity from the 3. RJ does neither of that, even with all of his improvements that he’s made since joining our team. Hitting wide open 3’s is not same as having shooting gravity.

RJ was a high usage player scoring on 53% TS. OG is a low usage player scoring on 60% TS. OG is a much better fit for them on offence. RJ was just taking possessions away from more efficient scorers on the team.

Sure, OG being a better defender has helped them as well, but getting rid of a high volume, low efficiency chucker has made a huge difference.

The bigger difference was them going from the worst defence in the league in December to 2nd best defence in the league once OG got traded there.

The knicks are like the Lowry demar raptors teams. Those teams were analytics darlings but when it came to the playoffs they just didn’t have star power.

Rj still has star potential. Og is who he is. His defense is impactful but he’s not winning anything unless he’s around stars.

[Raps in 4]

RJ was a high usage player scoring on 53% TS. OG is a low usage player scoring on 60% TS. OG is a much better fit for them on offence. RJ was just taking possessions away from more efficient scorers on the team.

Sure, OG being a better defender has helped them as well, but getting rid of a high volume, low efficiency chucker has made a huge difference.

The bigger difference was them going from the worst defence in the league in December to 2nd best defence in the league once OG got traded there.

The knicks are like the Lowry demar raptors teams. Those teams were analytics darlings but when it came to the playoffs they just didn’t have star power.

Rj still has star potential. Og is who he is. His defense is impactful but he’s not winning anything unless he’s around stars.

Brunson has star power. The Knicks would have easily made the ECF if Randle and OG weren't out.

[PD28]

The bigger difference was them going from the worst defence in the league in December to 2nd best defence in the league once OG got traded there.

The knicks are like the Lowry demar raptors teams. Those teams were analytics darlings but when it came to the playoffs they just didn’t have star power.

Rj still has star potential. Og is who he is. His defense is impactful but he’s not winning anything unless he’s around stars.

Brunson has star power. The Knicks would have easily made the ECF if Randle and OG weren't out.

Totally agree but I can also see Brunson's impact fall off if the referee's stop rewarding his foul baiting. Absolutely bonkers how many calls he gets for his size.

[Los_29]

Jalen Brunson had an insane 36% usage rate and a 53% TS% in the playoffs. That’s not good. Having a healthier squad would’ve benefitted him greatly though.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

The bigger difference was them going from the worst defence in the league in December to 2nd best defence in the league once OG got traded there.

The knicks are like the Lowry demar raptors teams. Those teams were analytics darlings but when it came to the playoffs they just didn’t have star power.

Rj still has star potential. Og is who he is. His defense is impactful but he’s not winning anything unless he’s around stars.

Brunson has star power. The Knicks would have easily made the ECF if Randle and OG weren't out.

Naw, that team was only good because This plays stars insane, unsustainable minutes, which lead to poor playoff performance. They are a mid team otherwise. Indy, lead by Pascal, would have taken them out anyways.

[mademan]

ya. Agree with the Knicks assessment as i dont think theyre really a true contender, even in this chit east. Besides Brunson taking a big paycut (for reasons that make no sense), I hate their offseason. IH out and bridges in is a borderline wash for me and theyve lost a chit ton of 1st rounders to boot. Awful past month

[Scase]

RJ is not a serious long term piece here. He'll play his contract out and move on.

You keep saying that to yourself. RJ is part of the core and I don't mind having him here if he can keep playing within himself and continue efficient production. He's ok on defence but not the worst.

Who cares if he is part of the core now? DD was part of the core, got traded for something better. FVV was part of the core, we let him walk. Siakam and OG were part of the core and we traded them.

Lots of players are part of the core, until they aren't. And RJ is a complementary piece, not the focal point, so he will be here until we can upgrade him for better. This is about the Raptors winning, not RJ, or IQ, or even Scottie. Trade whoever you need to, to get another chip.

[MEDIC]

RJ is not a serious long term piece here. He'll play his contract out and move on.

You keep saying that to yourself. RJ is part of the core and I don't mind having him here if he can keep playing within himself and continue efficient production. He's ok on defence but not the worst.

Who cares if he is part of the core now? DD was part of the core, got traded for something better. FVV was part of the core, we let him walk. Siakam and OG were part of the core and we traded them.

Lots of players are part of the core, until they aren't. And RJ is a complementary piece, not the focal point, so he will be here until we can upgrade him for better. This is about the Raptors winning, not RJ, or IQ, or even Scottie. Trade whoever you need to, to get another chip.

Of course you do that if it falls in your lap. The chance of another Kawhi level player being available is pretty low. The Raps took advantage of a difficult situation in SA. Those situations don't often present themselves when your franchise is ready for that type of trade.

For now, you focus on the present, develop the crap out of these guys and see where it goes. Maybe a Kawhi trade never comes along & you ride with these guys for 2 contracts. Maybe a Kawhi trade does come along & Masai is able to pull the trigger again. Who knows what the future holds.

[mtcan]

Exactly as said just above. Otherwise let's stop talking about RJ as if he was just a throw-in to make salaries work. Yes I'm sure IQ was to main target but I think Masai insisted on getting RJ instead of Evan Fournier and a cache of highly protected picks that may never convey as first round picks.

If RJ can continue his level of play after the trade and like has been as part of Team Canada...then there is no question...you keep him around and build around him, IQ and Scottie. Keep in mind...he just turned 24 years old so he is very much on the same timeline as IQ (who is older than RJ) and Scottie.

RJ as a Raptor is justifying why he was taken #3 overall in that draft. RJ as a Knick...notsomuch.

If you were to redraft that class...RJ is still #3 or at least a top 5 or 6...which is excellent value. Would you take Garland or Herro over RJ if you are do a redraft? For all the people that say that RJ is a bad defender...Garland and Herro are actually worse on D.

[Scase]

You keep saying that to yourself. RJ is part of the core and I don't mind having him here if he can keep playing within himself and continue efficient production. He's ok on defence but not the worst.

Who cares if he is part of the core now? DD was part of the core, got traded for something better. FVV was part of the core, we let him walk. Siakam and OG were part of the core and we traded them.

Lots of players are part of the core, until they aren't. And RJ is a complementary piece, not the focal point, so he will be here until we can upgrade him for better. This is about the Raptors winning, not RJ, or IQ, or even Scottie. Trade whoever you need to, to get another chip.

Of course you do that if it falls in your lap. The chance of another Kawhi level player being available is pretty low. The Raps took advantage of a difficult situation in SA. Those situations don't often present themselves when your franchise is ready for that type of trade.

For now, you focus on the present, develop the crap out of these guys and see where it goes. Maybe a Kawhi trade never comes along & you ride with these guys for 2 contracts. Maybe a Kawhi trade does come along & Masai is able to pull the trigger again. Who knows what the future holds.

And I'm totally fine with that, I'm not advocating for shipping him out, I just tire of hearing everyone say how he's part of the core and he's not going anywhere. He's an asset, he goes if there is a better offer. The Kawhi trade is definitely an outlier and not something to rely on, but that doesn't mean he can't be packaged for something better. He's not untouchable, no one outside Scottie is, and people just need to chill on treating him that way based off a 32 game sample size.

[HumbleRen]

Exactly as said just above. Otherwise let's stop talking about RJ as if he was just a throw-in to make salaries work. Yes I'm sure IQ was to main target but I think Masai insisted on getting RJ instead of Evan Fournier and a cache of highly protected picks that may never convey as first round picks.

If RJ can continue his level of play after the trade and like has been as part of Team Canada...then there is no question...you keep him around and build around him, IQ and Scottie. Keep in mind...he just turned 24 years old so he is very much on the same timeline as IQ (who is older than RJ) and Scottie.

RJ as a Raptor is justifying why he was taken #3 overall in that draft. RJ as a Knick...notsomuch.

If you were to redraft that class...RJ is still #3 or at least a top 5 or 6...which is excellent value. Would you take Garland or Herro over RJ if you are do a redraft? For all the people that say that RJ is a bad defender...Garland and Herro are actually worse on D.

I don’t think anyone is saying hes trash or anything though. It’s just him being a below average defender at his position just makes our roster construction pretty wonky.

It’s fine for now because we are talent starved and have 0 expectations being in the playoffs but eventually when we want to be a serious team, he’ll be the biggest question mark on our starting line up.

I can’t stress how important his development is on defence. If he can become an above average defender on the ball against wings, it completely changes our floor and his ceiling. Hopefully it can happen but I’m not holding out hope for it.

[brownbobcat]

It’s great but it still doesn’t really matter until he can guard his position. His offence was never the big issue on the Knicks. It was his lack of POA defence.

It’s why the Knicks went from a good team to borderline contenders with OG in place of RJ despite RJ being a more dynamic scorer.

If he can be like 80-90% of the offensive player he was last year for us while also becoming an average to above average defender ? Now that’s the best player in the trade. Until then, I’m not so sure with that statement.

It's kind of both, the biggest knock on RJ was being a jack-of-all-trades but master of none. If you are average to below-average in a lot of skillsets, it's hard to be an effective starter in the NBA. OG is the ultimate glue piece because he is very effective off-ball and can truly defend 1-5. I'm somewhat of the opinion that defensive upside can't be improved very much. You can study film and schemes to be positionally sound, but the reactionary part is very difficult to improve upon.

IMO, becoming a knock-down shooter is going to be X-factor that determines whether RJ ever takes that next step forward. Eliminating the mid-range can make a player more efficient, but someone on the team ultimately needs to take those shots.

[PoundTown]

RJ is not a serious long term piece here. He'll play his contract out and move on.

You keep saying that to yourself. RJ is part of the core and I don't mind having him here if he can keep playing within himself and continue efficient production. He's ok on defence but not the worst.

He's definitely averagish on defense. The problem is we could really use a point of attack defender at the 2/3, another big wing. RJ would be just fine if given the weaker of the two assignments. He is fully engaged on that end. Not trying to bash Demar, but he's much better on that end than Demar, who would sometimes give you back all the points he generated offensively. RJ has a good motor on both ends, but his hips and lateral movement are not elite. The added bulk has helped him out tremendously on the offensive end, but have hurt him a tad on the other end. Love his work ethic and mentality. If he doesn't become an all star it won't be for lack of trying or motivation. The kid wants to be great.

[mtcan]

He averaged 22 points, 6 rebounds and 4 assist on excellent efficiency after the trade. That is solid production as a 3rd option. Assuming that efficiency can be maintained...that is his role. He could reach to being a fringe all-star mention if he can continue as he has been.

Yes his shooting and defence can improve but you can't tell me that someone averaging 22 pts, 6 rebounds and 4 assists isn't legit starting material.

If he regresses to being NYC RJ...I would change my mind but he has played a different style since homing home so clearly something is different so the change of scenery unlocked a different RJ.

[GIZMO]

Who cares if he is part of the core now? DD was part of the core, got traded for something better. FVV was part of the core, we let him walk. Siakam and OG were part of the core and we traded them.

Lots of players are part of the core, until they aren't. And RJ is a complementary piece, not the focal point, so he will be here until we can upgrade him for better. This is about the Raptors winning, not RJ, or IQ, or even Scottie. Trade whoever you need to, to get another chip.

Of course you do that if it falls in your lap. The chance of another Kawhi level player being available is pretty low. The Raps took advantage of a difficult situation in SA. Those situations don't often present themselves when your franchise is ready for that type of trade.

For now, you focus on the present, develop the crap out of these guys and see where it goes. Maybe a Kawhi trade never comes along & you ride with these guys for 2 contracts. Maybe a Kawhi trade does come along & Masai is able to pull the trigger again. Who knows what the future holds.

And I'm totally fine with that, I'm not advocating for shipping him out, I just tire of hearing everyone say how he's part of the core and he's not going anywhere. He's an asset, he goes if there is a better offer. The Kawhi trade is definitely an outlier and not something to rely on, but that doesn't mean he can't be packaged for something better. He's not untouchable, no one outside Scottie is, and people just need to chill on treating him that way based off a 32 game sample size.

That can be said of every Raptor including IQ and Barnes, No?

[Scase]

Of course you do that if it falls in your lap. The chance of another Kawhi level player being available is pretty low. The Raps took advantage of a difficult situation in SA. Those situations don't often present themselves when your franchise is ready for that type of trade.

For now, you focus on the present, develop the crap out of these guys and see where it goes. Maybe a Kawhi trade never comes along & you ride with these guys for 2 contracts. Maybe a Kawhi trade does come along & Masai is able to pull the trigger again. Who knows what the future holds.

And I'm totally fine with that, I'm not advocating for shipping him out, I just tire of hearing everyone say how he's part of the core and he's not going anywhere. He's an asset, he goes if there is a better offer. The Kawhi trade is definitely an outlier and not something to rely on, but that doesn't mean he can't be packaged for something better. He's not untouchable, no one outside Scottie is, and people just need to chill on treating him that way based off a 32 game sample size.

That can be said of every Raptor including IQ and Barnes, No?

No. Because neither Barnes nor IQ are coasting off a 32 game sample size. We have Scottie who has been consistently getting better since he entered the league, as well as being better than he was expected.

And IQ has 253 games as a Knick showing himself to be average to well above average efficiency wise, and the advanced stats mostly tell the same story. Even his time with us so far has been smack dab on par with his career averages to date in both standard and advanced metrics for the most part.

RJ has 297 games of significantly below average efficiency.

His TS% vs league average every year he's been in the league :
19-20 47.9 vs 56.5
20-21 53.5 vs 57.2
21-22 51.1 vs 56.6
22-23 53.1 vs 58.1
23-24 58 vs 58

23-24 Knicks 53.6 vs 58
23-24 Raptors 61.5 vs 58

RJ also doesn't provide even average defence at his position, and does not have a consistent or high level 3 ball. He has an old school game, that only works when you are some of the best in the NBA at the mid range, like DD, KD, etc. His game is heavily flawed, and it's going to take a lot more than 32 games to say otherwise.

If he can keep up this level of scoring efficiency, then that is fantastic and I'll be happy to have him part of the team for as long as he's valuable. But there is a cap on a teams ceiling when one of your big 3 are good in the mid range, mediocre to below average from distance, and a negative on defence. If he improves his defence to be a net neutral, then again, I'm happy to keep him around. But his game is not something you see on contenders or championship teams, at least not as a core starter.

[Psubs]

RJ just turned 24 and will be entering his prime soon. Olympic RJ is exciting to see him fulfill his potential.

[Meursault]

if he can have a Richard Jefferson impact to the squad during the Vince-Kidd days, I would be very happy with RJ's outputs.