Pascal Siakam Trade Speculation Thread 2

[ForeverTFC]

Murray + Hunter for Siakam + whatever... sign me up!

Then trade Trent for a backup Center and we're pretty set.

Apparently the Hawks have been trying to trade Hunter since the summer and there has been no taker. His contract sucks. Add in that Murray is ball dominant and has shown he can't really play off-ball, why would we want this trade?

Ya Hunter has been an injury risk his whole career but would ve a great buy low candidate like RJ Barrett was. I think Murray can play PG with Quickley off the ball at SG while switching the roles defensively. Both are locked into their contracts so we can look to trade Murray in the offseason if it doesn't workout.

If our goal is to develop Scottie as the initiator of our offense, I don't understand why we'd want to run out a 1-3 of Murray/IQ/Barrett. Every one of these guys needs the ball in their hand to be effective. Scottie will have to play off-ball because none of these guys can (outside IQ to some degree).

I don't even think RJ is a good fit and believe we should ship him out. I have no idea how Murray works at all.

[AkelaLoneWolf]

Apparently the Hawks have been trying to trade Hunter since the summer and there has been no taker. His contract sucks. Add in that Murray is ball dominant and has shown he can't really play off-ball, why would we want this trade?

Ya Hunter has been an injury risk his whole career but would ve a great buy low candidate like RJ Barrett was. I think Murray can play PG with Quickley off the ball at SG while switching the roles defensively. Both are locked into their contracts so we can look to trade Murray in the offseason if it doesn't workout.

If our goal is to develop Scottie as the initiator of our offense, I don't understand why we'd want to run out a 1-3 of Murray/IQ/Barrett. Every one of these guys needs the ball in their hand to be effective. Scottie will have to play off-ball because none of these guys can (outside IQ to some degree).

I don't even think RJ is a good fit and believe we should ship him out. I have no idea how Murray works at all.

I don’t know if the fit is necessarily worse than what we have now and if we can get bogdanovic and capela in the trade it keep the team balanced and deep.

[alpngso]

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[GhostDog123]

Getting tired of this pretender and his “Ayayayaa…yayayay” on every drive. He is good player but not option A and doesn't fit timeline at all. Masai just pick best offer and lets move on!

[ForeverTFC]

Ya Hunter has been an injury risk his whole career but would ve a great buy low candidate like RJ Barrett was. I think Murray can play PG with Quickley off the ball at SG while switching the roles defensively. Both are locked into their contracts so we can look to trade Murray in the offseason if it doesn't workout.

If our goal is to develop Scottie as the initiator of our offense, I don't understand why we'd want to run out a 1-3 of Murray/IQ/Barrett. Every one of these guys needs the ball in their hand to be effective. Scottie will have to play off-ball because none of these guys can (outside IQ to some degree).

I don't even think RJ is a good fit and believe we should ship him out. I have no idea how Murray works at all.

I don’t know if the fit is necessarily worse than what we have now and if we can get bogdanovic and capela in the trade it keep the team balanced and deep.

Difference is that Siakam is a good off-ball player and doesn't need the ball in his hands to get points. So even though he and Scottie like the same spots on the court, they can play off of each other - both are good passers and both can get points either on or off ball. So by taking out Siakam and bringing in Murray, you took out a guy that has largely played off-ball this season and bring in another player that needs to play on-ball. RJ has already moved Scottie off-ball; Murray will make it even worse. And the next casualty will be IQ who I think we want to be an on-ball player to develop.

Add in the fact that Murray hasn't shown the ability to be a good POA defender in Atlanta (what they brought him in for beside Trae) and I just don't know how he helps you long term in trying to build this team around Scottie and IQ. Our 2 supposed future cornerstones will get relegated off-ball so Murray and RJ can play their game. I don't know how Bogdan and Capela help alter this reality in a favorable direction.

[TorontoBarneys]

Sorry, but Gradey Dick is untouchable. Masai just came out with the statement.

[Tor_Raps]

Ya Hunter has been an injury risk his whole career but would ve a great buy low candidate like RJ Barrett was. I think Murray can play PG with Quickley off the ball at SG while switching the roles defensively. Both are locked into their contracts so we can look to trade Murray in the offseason if it doesn't workout.

If our goal is to develop Scottie as the initiator of our offense, I don't understand why we'd want to run out a 1-3 of Murray/IQ/Barrett. Every one of these guys needs the ball in their hand to be effective. Scottie will have to play off-ball because none of these guys can (outside IQ to some degree).

I don't even think RJ is a good fit and believe we should ship him out. I have no idea how Murray works at all.

I don’t know if the fit is necessarily worse than what we have now and if we can get bogdanovic and capela in the trade it keep the team balanced and deep.

I'm honestly sick of people trying to make Barnes a PG. Murray and Quickley are close to 40% 3 point shooters while Barrett provides the driving dynamic.

It feels like Barnes fans are happy if the team is complete crap so Barnes can statpad while we keep putting up Ls. He needs to be able to work off others and still find ways to get his because this is what will happen with any successful team.

[ForeverTFC]

If our goal is to develop Scottie as the initiator of our offense, I don't understand why we'd want to run out a 1-3 of Murray/IQ/Barrett. Every one of these guys needs the ball in their hand to be effective. Scottie will have to play off-ball because none of these guys can (outside IQ to some degree).

I don't even think RJ is a good fit and believe we should ship him out. I have no idea how Murray works at all.

I don’t know if the fit is necessarily worse than what we have now and if we can get bogdanovic and capela in the trade it keep the team balanced and deep.

I'm honestly sick of people trying to make Barnes a PG. Murray and Quickley are close to 40% 3 point shooters while Barrett provides the driving dynamic.

It feels like Barnes fans are happy if the team is complete crap so Barnes can statpad while we keep putting up Ls. He needs to be able to work off others and still find ways to get his because this is what will happen with any successful team.

Are you referring to me here? I'm on the record saying Barnes is not a PG and should not be treated as such. However, there is only one ball to go around and last I checked, we went out and got our lead guard of the future in IQ. RJ and Murray are useless off-ball, so you have to relegate IQ and Scottie off ball to make this roster work. You're already seeing it with RJ in the lineup.

If our goal is to build around an IQ/Barnes core, why in the world would we relegate both in the offense to fit in RJ (a negative player his entire career so far outside his sophmore season) and Murray (an ok PG that has not shot it well from deep in any season outside the current one)?

EDIT: To add, this doesn't even address the defensive end. Murray and IQ are both good help defenders but neither can play at the POA. Think about the difficulty of building a system around these 2 as your guard rotation.

[Tor_Raps]

I don’t know if the fit is necessarily worse than what we have now and if we can get bogdanovic and capela in the trade it keep the team balanced and deep.

I'm honestly sick of people trying to make Barnes a PG. Murray and Quickley are close to 40% 3 point shooters while Barrett provides the driving dynamic.

It feels like Barnes fans are happy if the team is complete crap so Barnes can statpad while we keep putting up Ls. He needs to be able to work off others and still find ways to get his because this is what will happen with any successful team.

Are you referring to me here? I'm on the record saying Barnes is not a PG and should not treated as such. However, there is only one ball to go around. RJ and Murray are useless off-ball, so you relegate IQ and Scottie off ball to make this roster work. You're already seeing it with RJ in the lineup.

If our goal is to build around an IQ/Barnes core, why in the world would we relegate both in the offense to fit in RJ (a negative player his entire career so far outside his sophmore season) and Murray (an ok PG that has not shot it well from deep in any season outside the current one)?

Nah, I was talking about people in general who keep talking about guys taking away from Barnes like he needs to be babied all the time. We've seen him many times turn the switch on and off based on his mood.

Murray is a PG so he is used to having the ball in his hands but is also shooting 39% from 3 so he can also work off the ball. RJ is a wildcard because we have no clue what type of player he will be longterm but so far I love the potential.

[JB7]

The good thing is there seems to be a very strong market for Pascal.

Teams clearly interested in him, and players Masai is probably targeting:
- Indy (Mathurin/Walker)
- GSW (Kuminga/Moody/Podz)
- Kings (Murray)
- Detroit (Ausar)
- Dallas (Green & OMax)

Other teams on the outside that still might be interested in Pascal, and players Masai is probably targeting:
- Houston (Amen/Smith Jr)
- Hawks (JJ)

As the deadline gets closer, it is just a matter of seeing which one panics and meets Masai's asking price.

Because there is still a lot of time until the deadline, they are all lowballing Masai, for now.

[Tacoma]

how does this imply they aren't gonna make a run at pascal?

Because Siakam, without a commitment, is a rental.

Did you listen to the Hoop Collective today? They didn't say the Pacers are not going to make a run for Siakam and in fact said the opposite. They mentioned that the Pacers have been after Siakam since the summer and Windhorst said they will not pull the trigger unless they have some sort of commitment that if things work out, he will stay - not necessarily a hard commitment to re-sign but a signal that if things work out, he will stay. They also mentioned that they probably have a better chance of getting Siakam if they trade for him as opposed to trying to land him in the off-season as an FA.

What exactly is the signal(s)? If they make the ECF? If he gets along with his teammates? If he likes Indiana? Combo or all of above? Clear as mud.

Without a written commitment and dependent on some sort of murky signal, Siakam still has full rights to leave, so Indiana's perspective should be that he’s a rental until there’s something clearly written to stay.

If the situation were reverse, Masai would consider it the same way.

[Tripod]

I'm honestly sick of people trying to make Barnes a PG. Murray and Quickley are close to 40% 3 point shooters while Barrett provides the driving dynamic.

It feels like Barnes fans are happy if the team is complete crap so Barnes can statpad while we keep putting up Ls. He needs to be able to work off others and still find ways to get his because this is what will happen with any successful team.

Are you referring to me here? I'm on the record saying Barnes is not a PG and should not treated as such. However, there is only one ball to go around. RJ and Murray are useless off-ball, so you relegate IQ and Scottie off ball to make this roster work. You're already seeing it with RJ in the lineup.

If our goal is to build around an IQ/Barnes core, why in the world would we relegate both in the offense to fit in RJ (a negative player his entire career so far outside his sophmore season) and Murray (an ok PG that has not shot it well from deep in any season outside the current one)?

Nah, I was talking about people in general who keep talking about guys taking away from Barnes like he needs to be babied all the time. We've seen him many times turn the switch on and off based on his mood.

Murray is a PG so he is used to having the ball in his hands but is also shooting 39% from 3 so he can also work off the ball. RJ is a wildcard because we have no clue what type of player he will be longterm but so far I love the potential.

If Murray worked well off ball, Atl would not be looking to trade him

[ArthurVandelay]

If Indy is serious about making a deal and willing to give Siakam a 4 year max, then the hold up is Siakam being non-committal

but if they trade for him, it'd be a 5-year max, wouldn't it? is he really gonna give that up?

and if he really didn't want to go there, they wouldn't still be interested after all this time.

That could be the issue

He is (was?) willing to take 4 year max from Toronto

He will be willing to take 4 year max in FA with a cap team

But for a new team with his bird rights, maybe he is asking for 5 years?


Seems like a 3-way game of chicken going on

[redraptor77]

Houston looks poised with ability to make a move.
Detroit- like Ivey and Stewart
Indiana - Mathurin and Waller
The rest of the stuff is hot garbage

[GhostDog123]

What about idea to up Pascal value and let him show that he is worth MAX and put him on best opposing player of defense every game till the deadline? I bet he would want to resign on a team friendly contract in one month

[deeps6x]

How about this?

To Portland: Hield, Toppin, FRP
To Indiana: Grant, Siakam, Temple
To Toronto: Brown, Mathurin

Hali/Nesmith/Grant/Siakam/Turner is a legit contender, Indiana gets a young PF to pair with their young core and a FRP, Toronto gets a young player to pair with their core.

Note: Indiana could choose to send Walker to Portland instead of Toppin but if they do, they should find a back up wing in exchange for Toppin since they already have Smith under contract for at least another year. I have to imagine they'd rather deal Toppin as this team would be rather expensive but they'd be probably a Top 3 team in the East for the foreseeable future. Replacing Nesmith for Mathurin does more to keep this team cost controlled and is probably better defensively for them as well. Their bench would be McConnell, Nembhard, Smith, Jackson. Could re-up Nwora to something cheap for injury insurance but Nesmith and Grant will split time at SF and Grant and Siakam will split time at PF.

I don't see the Raptors coughing up another first round pick nor do I see Indiana sending out a first round pick in addition to Mathurin as well...

That pick would be coming from Indiana. And if Indiana doesn't want to pay Mathurin and 1st for both Siakam and Grant then I'm not sure anyone is going to be able to help them.

I'd expect if Indiana was getting Siakam and Grant, that the player they'd be shipping out would be Nesmith, not Mathurin. Grant would be their new SF.

[Michael Jordan]

Kings are slumping and the Warriors are 1 game outside the play-in. They both want Siakam but won't give up quality assets for him which I think will change.

[Mattatron]

I'm honestly sick of people trying to make Barnes a PG. Murray and Quickley are close to 40% 3 point shooters while Barrett provides the driving dynamic.

It feels like Barnes fans are happy if the team is complete crap so Barnes can statpad while we keep putting up Ls. He needs to be able to work off others and still find ways to get his because this is what will happen with any successful team.

Are you referring to me here? I'm on the record saying Barnes is not a PG and should not treated as such. However, there is only one ball to go around. RJ and Murray are useless off-ball, so you relegate IQ and Scottie off ball to make this roster work. You're already seeing it with RJ in the lineup.

If our goal is to build around an IQ/Barnes core, why in the world would we relegate both in the offense to fit in RJ (a negative player his entire career so far outside his sophmore season) and Murray (an ok PG that has not shot it well from deep in any season outside the current one)?

Nah, I was talking about people in general who keep talking about guys taking away from Barnes like he needs to be babied all the time. We've seen him many times turn the switch on and off based on his mood.

Murray is a PG so he is used to having the ball in his hands but is also shooting 39% from 3 so he can also work off the ball. RJ is a wildcard because we have no clue what type of player he will be longterm but so far I love the potential.

Playing off-ball doesn't mean just to stand on the 3 point line and catch and shoot it. Having Murray in your lineup next to another ball dominant/initiator is not sustainable. The experiment don't work with Trae, why should it with IQ, Barnes and Barrett (hope he's getting traded asap).

[Johnny Bball]

I'm having a hard time reconciling why it is taking this long to settle the Siakam situation. Either way. A trade or extension. I do not want to see what happened last year happen this year. Where everyone makes their trades and there are no dance partners left and where there was pretty much nobody left to deal FVV to because theye had already made their moves. The raptors really need to make this one well before the last day of the deadline. And the sooner the better, then they can follow up on Trent, Porter, Young, Boucher if needed. This needs to happen by the end of next week for there to be time to have valid trade partners and to make minor moves that are required.

There is no rush at all. This season is a transition season; at best we make the play-ins, at very worse we suck so bad we get our 2024 pick back. Realistically we are somewhere in between where we are 7-8th last and lose our 2024 pick in a supposed weak draft year. Key for Masai is to get the best possible deal for Pascal before the trade deadline - nothing else really matters this season.

I dont know if you even read my post. None of what you responded with is the problem?

[Spida888]

I'm having a hard time reconciling why it is taking this long to settle the Siakam situation. Either way. A trade or extension. I do not want to see what happened last year happen this year. Where everyone makes their trades and there are no dance partners left and where there was pretty much nobody left to deal FVV to because theye had already made their moves. The raptors really need to make this one well before the last day of the deadline. And the sooner the better, then they can follow up on Trent, Porter, Young, Boucher if needed. This needs to happen by the end of next week for there to be time to have valid trade partners and to make minor moves that are required.

There is no rush at all. This season is a transition season; at best we make the play-ins, at very worse we suck so bad we get our 2024 pick back. Realistically we are somewhere in between where we are 7-8th last and lose our 2024 pick in a supposed weak draft year. Key for Masai is to get the best possible deal for Pascal before the trade deadline - nothing else really matters this season.

There is some urgency in getting a Siakam deal or extension done like Johnny was saying because you don't want to find out last minute on the day of the trade deadline that no deal is worth doing.

If that happens, Pascal's camp has even more leverage. He can decline a 4 year max extension and wait it out for some 5 year offer from us instead or we risk losing him for nothing.

If we try to trade him by end of Jan, it gives us some buffer to pivot to an extension if the offers are crap. If he declines the extension here, at least we still have an option to trade him to the highest bidder.