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Official Ochai Agbaji Thread - Welcome to Toronto, Ochai!

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Re: Official Ochai Agbaji Thread - Welcome to Toronto, Ochai! 

Post#1141 » by Los_29 » Sun Dec 1, 2024 5:03 am

Johnny Bball wrote:
Scase wrote:
OakleyDokely wrote:He's been ridiculous. I keep thinking his numbers are going to drop, they just have to at some point, but he keeps up the uber efficiency and we're basically at 1/4 mark of the season.

19 GMS, 31.1 MIN, 12.2 PPG, 4.5 REB, 2.0 AST, 1.2 STL. 0.6 BLK, .535 FG, .462 3PT, .700 FT, .649 TS

It likely cools off a bit, 46% from 3 is pretty unsustainable for like 99% of the NBA, but to his credit he has played great so far and a big part of that compared to last year, is playing within his strengths and not forcing it.

I still need a full season of it before I'm convinced, but so far he's proving me very wrong, and I'm happy to see it.


Needs an entire season to prove you wrong, but you managed to form a really **** opinion in two weeks from the hop. At least you added "very", since you started by calling him a waste right after the trade.


I’m not going to lie, that made me chuckle as well. 27 games playing with G-Leaguers was enough to declare Ochai as a scrub who will be playing in China. After 20 games of excellent play, he needs to see it for a full year.
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Re: Official Ochai Agbaji Thread - Welcome to Toronto, Ochai! 

Post#1142 » by Duffman100 » Sun Dec 1, 2024 2:28 pm

Los_29 wrote:
Johnny Bball wrote:
Scase wrote:It likely cools off a bit, 46% from 3 is pretty unsustainable for like 99% of the NBA, but to his credit he has played great so far and a big part of that compared to last year, is playing within his strengths and not forcing it.

I still need a full season of it before I'm convinced, but so far he's proving me very wrong, and I'm happy to see it.


Needs an entire season to prove you wrong, but you managed to form a really **** opinion in two weeks from the hop. At least you added "very", since you started by calling him a waste right after the trade.


I’m not going to lie, that made me chuckle as well. 27 games playing with G-Leaguers was enough to declare Ochai as a scrub who will be playing in China. After 20 games of excellent play, he needs to see it for a full year.


It's such a strange psychological phenomenon on this board.

People would rather rush to be pessimistic and doom and gloom and need so much more evidence to be positive and optimistic.
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Re: Official Ochai Agbaji Thread - Welcome to Toronto, Ochai! 

Post#1143 » by YogurtProducer » Sun Dec 1, 2024 3:19 pm

Los_29 wrote:
Johnny Bball wrote:
Scase wrote:It likely cools off a bit, 46% from 3 is pretty unsustainable for like 99% of the NBA, but to his credit he has played great so far and a big part of that compared to last year, is playing within his strengths and not forcing it.

I still need a full season of it before I'm convinced, but so far he's proving me very wrong, and I'm happy to see it.


Needs an entire season to prove you wrong, but you managed to form a really **** opinion in two weeks from the hop. At least you added "very", since you started by calling him a waste right after the trade.


I’m not going to lie, that made me chuckle as well. 27 games playing with G-Leaguers was enough to declare Ochai as a scrub who will be playing in China. After 20 games of excellent play, he needs to see it for a full year.

What else did you two expect from the poster who brought us threads like “historically worst shooter of all time” regarding 20 game Siakam but Barnes shooting 38-40% (or whatever it was) was “obviously sustainable” over the same period of time.

Scase doesn’t post with logic. Agbaji has been a positive shooter for his ENTIRE college and professional career outside 27 games with us post-trade, yet he still puts more stock into that because it confirms his bias.
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Re: Official Ochai Agbaji Thread - Welcome to Toronto, Ochai! 

Post#1144 » by Los_29 » Sun Dec 1, 2024 3:23 pm

YogurtProducer wrote:
Los_29 wrote:
Johnny Bball wrote:
Needs an entire season to prove you wrong, but you managed to form a really **** opinion in two weeks from the hop. At least you added "very", since you started by calling him a waste right after the trade.


I’m not going to lie, that made me chuckle as well. 27 games playing with G-Leaguers was enough to declare Ochai as a scrub who will be playing in China. After 20 games of excellent play, he needs to see it for a full year.

What else did you two expect from the poster who brought us threads like “historically worst shooter of all time” regarding 20 game Siakam but Barnes shooting 38-40% (or whatever it was) was “obviously sustainable” over the same period of time.

Scase doesn’t post with logic. Agbaji has been a positive shooter for his ENTIRE college and professional career outside 27 games with us post-trade, yet he still puts more stock into that because it confirms his bias.


Yeah, although it’s entertaining, a much better job needs to be done in regards to interpreting statistics. I remember a couple of years ago, there was a thread about how Fred had been an awful shooter for 10 months. But the poster managed to include the offseason months. He was rightfully criticized for it. In actual reality, it had been 3-4 months.
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Re: Official Ochai Agbaji Thread - Welcome to Toronto, Ochai! 

Post#1145 » by sidsid » Sun Dec 1, 2024 4:09 pm

Psubs wrote:He's played himself into at minimum offer sheets for at least the MLE. I think this summer they really should offer like a 4 year extension for like $70 million; $17.5 million per year.

I think he's now better (more aggressive) than Patrick Williams that got slightly more at $18 million per year.


Size remains a factor. I'm not sure where the market is on guys who fit in the guard space but will often end up at SF. Wings remain at a premium and he's not part of that market.

Regardless, he's shown enough of the absolute basics that you need for being a guy on the floor that doesn't take anything away which is 90% of the battle in this era.

The other important factor in this era - the apron era - is cap efficiency. You play hardball with all role players. With this type of player you don't mind length of contract + player option if they get it in exchange for a team friendly deal. Looking at OKC's deals for their guards.
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Re: Official Ochai Agbaji Thread - Welcome to Toronto, Ochai! 

Post#1146 » by GLF » Sun Dec 1, 2024 4:53 pm

Duffman100 wrote:
Los_29 wrote:
Johnny Bball wrote:
Needs an entire season to prove you wrong, but you managed to form a really **** opinion in two weeks from the hop. At least you added "very", since you started by calling him a waste right after the trade.


I’m not going to lie, that made me chuckle as well. 27 games playing with G-Leaguers was enough to declare Ochai as a scrub who will be playing in China. After 20 games of excellent play, he needs to see it for a full year.


It's such a strange psychological phenomenon on this board.

People would rather rush to be pessimistic and doom and gloom and need so much more evidence to be positive and optimistic.



Literally. It’s the thing I hate about this board the most. Everyone is a finished product before they even hit their prime, sample sizes where the player plays badly is who they are but sample sizes where they play well is an aberration, anything negative is likely to continue and anything positive is unlikely. Everyone who is a pessimist is a realist and everyone who is an optimist and chooses to give these young players time/grace and have patience is living in delusion.

Context and nuance is never used when trying to understand or explain why a player may be playing badly for a stretch. Such as RJ going back to his New York efficiency when he’s asked to be the number 1 guy (which we know he isn’t) and moves up in the pecking order, but when Scottie is playing his TS is 57%. Can only imagine what it would be when two of our best shooters come back and give him even more space to operate. Oh and let’s not even talk about his much improved playmaking in the pick and roll, but hey that’s not what people wanted him to improve on or what they want to talk about so it’s ignored and it’s stated that he hasn’t improved at all when he has. Anyway let me not make this an RJ thread, I’m so tired of that whole argument.

I love the positive posters on here who have patience and give these young players grace. Especially because I find most of you aren’t extreme, have a very realistic level of optimism and make great points. These players are all still many years from their prime and none of us know what any of them will be when they get there. If they all continue to make incremental improvements year after year many of them can be really good players by then. Ochai being one of them.

I’m glad he was able to remind people that summer league means absolutely nothing and judging players off their play there, especially when they’re a player who cannot create for themselves and need good players around them, is probably not the smartest thing to do. I hope we all learn from this. Doubt it, but I can hope.
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Re: Official Ochai Agbaji Thread - Welcome to Toronto, Ochai! 

Post#1147 » by Psubs » Sun Dec 1, 2024 4:57 pm

sidsid wrote:
Psubs wrote:He's played himself into at minimum offer sheets for at least the MLE. I think this summer they really should offer like a 4 year extension for like $70 million; $17.5 million per year.

I think he's now better (more aggressive) than Patrick Williams that got slightly more at $18 million per year.


Size remains a factor. I'm not sure where the market is on guys who fit in the guard space but will often end up at SF. Wings remain at a premium and he's not part of that market.

Regardless, he's shown enough of the absolute basics that you need for being a guy on the floor that doesn't take anything away which is 90% of the battle in this era.

The other important factor in this era - the apron era - is cap efficiency. You play hardball with all role players. With this type of player you don't mind length of contract + player option if they get it in exchange for a team friendly deal. Looking at OKC's deals for their guards.


I guess hardball would be 4 years MLE with max raises but give him a player option 4th year.
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Re: Official Ochai Agbaji Thread - Welcome to Toronto, Ochai! 

Post#1148 » by HiJiNX » Sun Dec 1, 2024 5:42 pm

Duffman100 wrote:
Los_29 wrote:
Johnny Bball wrote:
Needs an entire season to prove you wrong, but you managed to form a really **** opinion in two weeks from the hop. At least you added "very", since you started by calling him a waste right after the trade.


I’m not going to lie, that made me chuckle as well. 27 games playing with G-Leaguers was enough to declare Ochai as a scrub who will be playing in China. After 20 games of excellent play, he needs to see it for a full year.


It's such a strange psychological phenomenon on this board.

People would rather rush to be pessimistic and doom and gloom and need so much more evidence to be positive and optimistic.

Raptors fanbase in general. Still insecure 30 years in.
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Re: Official Ochai Agbaji Thread - Welcome to Toronto, Ochai! 

Post#1149 » by Scase » Sun Dec 1, 2024 10:15 pm

Duffman100 wrote:
Los_29 wrote:
Johnny Bball wrote:
Needs an entire season to prove you wrong, but you managed to form a really **** opinion in two weeks from the hop. At least you added "very", since you started by calling him a waste right after the trade.


I’m not going to lie, that made me chuckle as well. 27 games playing with G-Leaguers was enough to declare Ochai as a scrub who will be playing in China. After 20 games of excellent play, he needs to see it for a full year.


It's such a strange psychological phenomenon on this board.

People would rather rush to be pessimistic and doom and gloom and need so much more evidence to be positive and optimistic.

Making predictions/setting expectations based on previous results is called being realistic, just because it's not blindly optimistic doesn't make it negative. I would much rather be wrong and have a positive outcome than constantly wishing upon a star for unrealistic results and constantly being wrong.

But hey, while you are all taking your victory laps and crying about people being realistic, all of you can feel free to find the posts where you predicted him, or any player in the NBA actually, taking a +26% increase in 3p accuracy.

I guess when anything doesn't mesh with your outlook, it's negative by default. I suppose it's fair game for me to go into the RJ thread and start calling/pointing out all the posters who decided that his 32 game sample size was proof of what was to come, and to wax intellectual about how I don't understand why people would rush to be overly optimistic, confident, and sunshine and rainbows while ignoring so much evidence so they don't have to be realistic and grounded.

Weird when it's the other way around right? The circlejerking is cute though, you guys should keep it up.
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Re: Official Ochai Agbaji Thread - Welcome to Toronto, Ochai! 

Post#1150 » by youngRAPZ » Mon Dec 2, 2024 12:49 am

Scase wrote:
Duffman100 wrote:
Los_29 wrote:
I’m not going to lie, that made me chuckle as well. 27 games playing with G-Leaguers was enough to declare Ochai as a scrub who will be playing in China. After 20 games of excellent play, he needs to see it for a full year.


It's such a strange psychological phenomenon on this board.

People would rather rush to be pessimistic and doom and gloom and need so much more evidence to be positive and optimistic.

Making predictions/setting expectations based on previous results is called being realistic, just because it's not blindly optimistic doesn't make it negative. I would much rather be wrong and have a positive outcome than constantly wishing upon a star for unrealistic results and constantly being wrong.

But hey, while you are all taking your victory laps and crying about people being realistic, all of you can feel free to find the posts where you predicted him, or any player in the NBA actually, taking a +26% increase in 3p accuracy.

I guess when anything doesn't mesh with your outlook, it's negative by default. I suppose it's fair game for me to go into the RJ thread and start calling/pointing out all the posters who decided that his 32 game sample size was proof of what was to come, and to wax intellectual about how I don't understand why people would rush to be overly optimistic, confident, and sunshine and rainbows while ignoring so much evidence so they don't have to be realistic and grounded.

Weird when it's the other way around right? The circlejerking is cute though, you guys should keep it up.

Tonight wouldn’t be a good night for you to do that either :lol:
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Re: Official Ochai Agbaji Thread - Welcome to Toronto, Ochai! 

Post#1151 » by raincityraptors » Mon Dec 2, 2024 2:24 am

Doesn't Ochai look so much better playing with Gradey? (I originally typed Dick but had to change it)
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Re: Official Ochai Agbaji Thread - Welcome to Toronto, Ochai! 

Post#1152 » by WiggOuts » Mon Dec 2, 2024 8:03 am

GP2 wrote:
WiggOuts wrote:One of the most important things in life is patience, practice it, preach it. Everyone wants things right away and often miss out because they aren't willing to see things through when there aren't immediate results

The NBA is the hardest league in the world, young players need time to figure it out


So you're saying there's still a chance with Bruno Caboclo?

Based on what I've seen from him I think if given a chance, he could definitely carve out a career as a role player. Hes got NBA size and athleticism. Whether he gets another chance is a different story
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Re: Official Ochai Agbaji Thread - Welcome to Toronto, Ochai! 

Post#1153 » by bonjovi0308 » Mon Dec 2, 2024 9:54 am

WiggOuts wrote:
GP2 wrote:
WiggOuts wrote:One of the most important things in life is patience, practice it, preach it. Everyone wants things right away and often miss out because they aren't willing to see things through when there aren't immediate results

The NBA is the hardest league in the world, young players need time to figure it out


So you're saying there's still a chance with Bruno Caboclo?

Based on what I've seen from him I think if given a chance, he could definitely carve out a career as a role player. Hes got NBA size and athleticism. Whether he gets another chance is a different story


I always hope Masai could give Burno one more chance. But I guess they are now more like divorced couple
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Re: Official Ochai Agbaji Thread - Welcome to Toronto, Ochai! 

Post#1154 » by LoveMyRaps » Mon Dec 2, 2024 10:05 am

Such a sweet complementary piece to have alongside RJ and Scottie.

The perfect utility, do-it-all, swiss-army knife type player.
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Re: Official Ochai Agbaji Thread - Welcome to Toronto, Ochai! 

Post#1155 » by WiggOuts » Mon Dec 2, 2024 6:15 pm

bonjovi0308 wrote:
WiggOuts wrote:
GP2 wrote:
So you're saying there's still a chance with Bruno Caboclo?

Based on what I've seen from him I think if given a chance, he could definitely carve out a career as a role player. Hes got NBA size and athleticism. Whether he gets another chance is a different story


I always hope Masai could give Burno one more chance. But I guess they are now more like divorced couple

I agree with you. Bruno had a physical profile you just see very often, the intrigue is legit. Thats how you know that he was definitely lacking something on the maturity/mental side of things...those guys still get chances tho, I think his time will come
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Re: Official Ochai Agbaji Thread - Welcome to Toronto, Ochai! 

Post#1156 » by raptorforlife88 » Wed Dec 4, 2024 6:44 pm

He's 6th in the league in three point percentage now. Which is wildly impressive given last year and summer league. And we're now 22 games into the season. He's already tripled the number of threes he made in 27 games post trade last year. His makes just look great as well. The last three he made in the fourth quarter was never missing.

Keep waiting for the percentages to drop but they haven't yet.
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Re: Official Ochai Agbaji Thread - Welcome to Toronto, Ochai! 

Post#1157 » by MainEvent » Wed Dec 4, 2024 6:54 pm

22% 3s with us last year to 49% this year. ohhh myy
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Re: Official Ochai Agbaji Thread - Welcome to Toronto, Ochai! 

Post#1158 » by LoveMyRaps » Fri Dec 20, 2024 5:29 am

How does Masai find these diamonds in the rough?

Kids a stud!

Playing excellent basketball on both ends of the floor. Very impressed!

Knew he’d have a bounce back season, good for him!
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Re: Official Ochai Agbaji Thread - Welcome to Toronto, Ochai! 

Post#1159 » by Scase » Fri Dec 20, 2024 5:31 am

LoveMyRaps wrote:How does Masai find these diamonds in the rough?

Kids a stud!

Playing excellent basketball on both ends of the floor. Very impressed!

Knew he’d have a bounce back season, good for him!

He was MIA for the better part of a decade, but it's nice to see him round back into form. Hope we keep seeing some more guys showing some good progress.
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Re: Official Ochai Agbaji Thread - Welcome to Toronto, Ochai! 

Post#1160 » by Los_29 » Fri Dec 20, 2024 12:25 pm

Scase wrote:
LoveMyRaps wrote:How does Masai find these diamonds in the rough?

Kids a stud!

Playing excellent basketball on both ends of the floor. Very impressed!

Knew he’d have a bounce back season, good for him!

He was MIA for the better part of a decade, but it's nice to see him round back into form. Hope we keep seeing some more guys showing some good progress.


:lol: This was good. I had to chuckle at this one.

Ochai is playing some great basketball this year. Hasn’t really slowed down either.

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