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Windhorst: Raptors making noise around the league looking for a “big fish” // Giannis & Toronto "Mutual Interest"/KD too

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Re: Windhorst: Raptors making noise around the league looking for a “big fish” // Giannis & Toronto "Mutual Interest" 

Post#1141 » by earthtone » Wed Jun 4, 2025 3:59 pm

mdenny wrote:
earthtone wrote:
Nebuchadnezzar wrote:
It's all good the extension counts against Milwaukee's cap even if Scottie is dealt before July 1st

Yah, but it makes salaries pretty much impossible to match when Scottie only counts for $10 million outgoing on the Raptors cap sheet.

Let’s say you add RJ, him + Scottie would count as ~$63 million in incoming salary for Milwaukee but only ~$35 mil in outgoing salary for Toronto.

Neither team has any cap space, so no matter what combination of players you add, one side is gonna have too much incoming salary if Scottie’s involved.


I hear you on all this. Someone like douggood could answer alot of questions like this. I think scotty's extension counts as a standing contract. So if he's traded....that same legal contract extension applies to trade salary requirements under the CBA.

I kinda take for granted that if this was a major stumbling block....the media guys would report on it.

Y'know....for as much crap that ppl here talk about a guy like Doug Smith....if you go to the YouTube ppl ....they literally identify anything he publishes as a "major update" lol.

So it's almost like there is a primary and secondary media dynamic. The secondary media ppl report on what the primary media publishes.

Pensare and the youtube ppl can disrespect Doug Smith all they want. Pensare would literally kill a kitten to have the career that Doug Smith has. But he never will because he is a raging, dysfunctional narcissist who lies about getting robbed by black ppl.

Imagine being in your late 30s/early 40s and failing to become a basketball media person (failing to become anything else too) while publically smearing and insulting others who succeeded and accomplished more in that same field. Doug Smith been a respected journalist his entire adult life. Pensare is a middle aged man with bags under his eyes who hasn't held down a proper job since he folded clothes at Abercrombie and finch.

Imagine trying to bully an elder, near senior citizen, on the internet because you hate that they succeeded where you failed miserably?

Man, you would be a lot happier if you never watched another Pensare video :lol:. I’ve watched maybe 30 minutes of his content and that was enough to realize he has nothing but toxicity to offer the fanbase.

But as for why media guys aren’t reporting on it, I think it’s because it’s a problem easily resolved by timing. A lot of the trade proposals floated could still work, but only after July 1st.

If the rumours heat up and it looks like there’s any actual substance to them, I expect media guys will start diving deeper and explain why a pre-July 1st trade isn’t possible.

Good primer on poision pill extensions from Hoops Rumors :

For salary-matching purposes, if a player is traded between the time his rookie contract is extended and the following July 1 (when that extension takes effect), the player’s incoming value for the receiving team is the average of his current-year salary and the annual salary in each year of his extension. His current team, on the other hand, simply treats his current-year salary as the outgoing figure for matching purposes.


For Scottie who makes $10.1 million this year but is going to average $44.5 million over his next 5 years, his salary in a trade would count as $39 million incoming for the Bucks. That’s a $29 million difference on paper for the same player.
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Re: Windhorst: Raptors making noise around the league looking for a “big fish” // Giannis & Toronto "Mutual Interest" 

Post#1142 » by Tor_Raps » Wed Jun 4, 2025 4:02 pm

ConSarnit wrote:
Tor_Raps wrote:
bboyskinnylegs wrote:If we're getting Giannis, Yak would be a terrible fit on this team, and we'd need another C that can provide some spacing. I definitely don't think trading down with #9 for Cam by itself makes much sense for us without other moves.


Poeltl/Giannis is the same as Poeltl/Barnes in terms of fit, except Giannis is 10 times the player. Poeltl has great hands/finishing ability so its possible for 2 non shooters to work. We just need to ensure we have good shooters around them and thats where IQ/Ochai/Ingram would be a good fit imo.


For a title team? When? The only team who has been able to pull it off had Steph and Klay in their backcourt. Why would we want to make Giannis life harder?

The Bucks created a blueprint by surrounding Giannis with shooting bigs. And many times even that wasn’t enough. Pairing Giannis with a non-shooting big is like the Lakers swapping out 3+D players for Westbrook. If you already have the formula for success you don’t change it.

If we’re trading for Giannis we aren’t just trying to make the conference finals. We’re all in trying to win the title.


Except Poeltl is one of the most efficient players in the NBA while Westbrook is Westbrook. There is no 1 blueprint to win in the NBA. The first job is to ensure your team is talented enough and then you can get cute worrying about fit.

Raptors would go from a joke of a lottery team to a potential contender. There would be more work required to get them to one of the favorites, I agree.
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Re: Windhorst: Raptors making noise around the league looking for a “big fish” // Giannis & Toronto "Mutual Interest" 

Post#1143 » by Clutch0z24 » Wed Jun 4, 2025 4:04 pm

JB7 wrote:
WuTang_OG wrote:
Read on Twitter


Doesn't sound like KD wants to end up with the Rockets.

What could SAS possibly offer? Would they offer the 2nd pick for a 37yr old KD?


It would prolly be the 14th pick along with Vassell/H.Barnes to make salaries match...The only good thing if that does happen it takes assets off the table in a Giannis trade....
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Re: Windhorst: Raptors making noise around the league looking for a “big fish” // Giannis & Toronto "Mutual Interest" 

Post#1144 » by JB7 » Wed Jun 4, 2025 4:11 pm

Clutch0z24 wrote:
JB7 wrote:
WuTang_OG wrote:
Read on Twitter


Doesn't sound like KD wants to end up with the Rockets.

What could SAS possibly offer? Would they offer the 2nd pick for a 37yr old KD?


It would prolly be the 14th pick along with Vassell/H.Barnes to make salaries match...The only good thing if that does happen it takes assets off the table in a Giannis trade....


Doesn't seem like a good package for the Suns. A lot of overlap in Vassell and Booker, and the 14th pick doesn't offer that much value.

I would think the Suns would be more interested in getting their own picks back from the Rockets, plus Jabari and Whitmore, over anything the Spurs could offer.
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Re: Windhorst: Raptors making noise around the league looking for a “big fish” // Giannis & Toronto "Mutual Interest" 

Post#1145 » by Clutch0z24 » Wed Jun 4, 2025 4:16 pm

JB7 wrote:
Clutch0z24 wrote:
JB7 wrote:
Doesn't sound like KD wants to end up with the Rockets.

What could SAS possibly offer? Would they offer the 2nd pick for a 37yr old KD?


It would prolly be the 14th pick along with Vassell/H.Barnes to make salaries match...The only good thing if that does happen it takes assets off the table in a Giannis trade....


Doesn't seem like a good package for the Suns. A lot of overlap in Vassell and Booker, and the 14th pick doesn't offer that much value.

I would think the Suns would be more interested in getting their own picks back from the Rockets, plus Jabari and Whitmore, over anything the Spurs could offer.


Possible but obviously Spurs can also offer up future picks on top of that package if Suns demand a bit more....Sounds like Rockets are not willing to give all their assets up though maybe they are holding out for Giannis as well....Thats what makes it hard to trade for KD right now....If Giannis gets put on the market all these teams want as much assets to try and get him over KD....Thats why i feel the KD deal is going to be for less assets than people expect.
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Re: Windhorst: Raptors making noise around the league looking for a “big fish” // Giannis & Toronto "Mutual Interest" 

Post#1146 » by anotherhomer » Wed Jun 4, 2025 4:18 pm

Clutch0z24 wrote:
JB7 wrote:
Clutch0z24 wrote:
It would prolly be the 14th pick along with Vassell/H.Barnes to make salaries match...The only good thing if that does happen it takes assets off the table in a Giannis trade....


Doesn't seem like a good package for the Suns. A lot of overlap in Vassell and Booker, and the 14th pick doesn't offer that much value.

I would think the Suns would be more interested in getting their own picks back from the Rockets, plus Jabari and Whitmore, over anything the Spurs could offer.


Possible but obviously Spurs can also offer up future picks on top of that package if Suns demand a bit more....Sounds like Rockets are not willing to give all their assets up though maybe they are holding out for Giannis as well....Thats what makes it hard to trade for KD right now....If Giannis gets put on the market all these teams want as much assets to try and get him over KD....Thats why i feel the KD deal is going to be for less assets than people expect.


KD makes a lot of sense for raptors
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Re: Windhorst: Raptors making noise around the league looking for a “big fish” // Giannis & Toronto "Mutual Interest" 

Post#1147 » by ForeverTFC » Wed Jun 4, 2025 4:19 pm

JB7 wrote:
Clutch0z24 wrote:
JB7 wrote:
Doesn't sound like KD wants to end up with the Rockets.

What could SAS possibly offer? Would they offer the 2nd pick for a 37yr old KD?


It would prolly be the 14th pick along with Vassell/H.Barnes to make salaries match...The only good thing if that does happen it takes assets off the table in a Giannis trade....


Doesn't seem like a good package for the Suns. A lot of overlap in Vassell and Booker, and the 14th pick doesn't offer that much value.

I would think the Suns would be more interested in getting their own picks back from the Rockets, plus Jabari and Whitmore, over anything the Spurs could offer.


KD only has a year left. He'll have a lot of say in where he goes. Also, doubt the Suns would get more than 1 of their own picks back (if that) in a KD trade with the Rockets. Those picks are only on the table for Booker.
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Re: Windhorst: Raptors making noise around the league looking for a “big fish” // Giannis & Toronto "Mutual Interest" 

Post#1148 » by JB7 » Wed Jun 4, 2025 4:19 pm

Clutch0z24 wrote:
JB7 wrote:
Clutch0z24 wrote:
It would prolly be the 14th pick along with Vassell/H.Barnes to make salaries match...The only good thing if that does happen it takes assets off the table in a Giannis trade....


Doesn't seem like a good package for the Suns. A lot of overlap in Vassell and Booker, and the 14th pick doesn't offer that much value.

I would think the Suns would be more interested in getting their own picks back from the Rockets, plus Jabari and Whitmore, over anything the Spurs could offer.


Possible but obviously Spurs can also offer up future picks on top of that package if Suns demand a bit more....Sounds like Rockets are not willing to give all their assets up though maybe they are holding out for Giannis as well....Thats what makes it hard to trade for KD right now....If Giannis gets put on the market all these teams want as much assets to try and get him over KD....Thats why i feel the KD deal is going to be for less assets than people expect.


My gut is saying the Rockets are just trying to squeeze the Suns, to retain as much as they can in a KD deal. And KD is not all that interested in going to the Rockets, hence the messages coming from his camp.
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Re: Windhorst: Raptors making noise around the league looking for a “big fish” // Giannis & Toronto "Mutual Interest" 

Post#1149 » by TerryTate » Wed Jun 4, 2025 4:21 pm

Tor_Raps wrote:
ConSarnit wrote:
Tor_Raps wrote:
Poeltl/Giannis is the same as Poeltl/Barnes in terms of fit, except Giannis is 10 times the player. Poeltl has great hands/finishing ability so its possible for 2 non shooters to work. We just need to ensure we have good shooters around them and thats where IQ/Ochai/Ingram would be a good fit imo.


For a title team? When? The only team who has been able to pull it off had Steph and Klay in their backcourt. Why would we want to make Giannis life harder?

The Bucks created a blueprint by surrounding Giannis with shooting bigs. And many times even that wasn’t enough. Pairing Giannis with a non-shooting big is like the Lakers swapping out 3+D players for Westbrook. If you already have the formula for success you don’t change it.

If we’re trading for Giannis we aren’t just trying to make the conference finals. We’re all in trying to win the title.


Except Poeltl is one of the most efficient players in the NBA while Westbrook is Westbrook. There is no 1 blueprint to win in the NBA. The first job is to ensure your team is talented enough and then you can get cute worrying about fit.

Raptors would go from a joke of a lottery team to a potential contender. There would be more work required to get them to one of the favorites, I agree.


I would try and trade for Giannis and then sign Brook Lopez as a Backup for Poetl.
Lopez is old and better suited for the backup role and he can stretch the floor.
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Re: Windhorst: Raptors making noise around the league looking for a “big fish” // Giannis & Toronto "Mutual Interest" 

Post#1150 » by Clutch0z24 » Wed Jun 4, 2025 4:34 pm

anotherhomer wrote:
Clutch0z24 wrote:
JB7 wrote:
Doesn't seem like a good package for the Suns. A lot of overlap in Vassell and Booker, and the 14th pick doesn't offer that much value.

I would think the Suns would be more interested in getting their own picks back from the Rockets, plus Jabari and Whitmore, over anything the Spurs could offer.


Possible but obviously Spurs can also offer up future picks on top of that package if Suns demand a bit more....Sounds like Rockets are not willing to give all their assets up though maybe they are holding out for Giannis as well....Thats what makes it hard to trade for KD right now....If Giannis gets put on the market all these teams want as much assets to try and get him over KD....Thats why i feel the KD deal is going to be for less assets than people expect.


KD makes a lot of sense for raptors


I would agree any other year if Giannis was not potentially becoming available.....Id love KD on this team beside Barnes/Ingram but i feel Masai has a love/obsession with Giannis that will make it hard for him to see anything but Giannis this summer.....I think before any secondary moves are made Masai holds all his assets for Giannis. Which could be foolish but Masai loves Giannis that much.
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Re: Windhorst: Raptors making noise around the league looking for a “big fish” // Giannis & Toronto "Mutual Interest" 

Post#1151 » by at87on » Wed Jun 4, 2025 4:38 pm

That NBACentel parody tweet about Durant and Giannis teaming up in Toronto isn't as crazy as it seems to me.

Go all out Alex Anthopoulos style, contend for the next 2 years and suffer for the following 10 years.
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Re: Windhorst: Raptors making noise around the league looking for a “big fish” // Giannis & Toronto "Mutual Interest" 

Post#1152 » by Tor_Raps » Wed Jun 4, 2025 4:48 pm

at87on wrote:That NBACentel parody tweet about Durant and Giannis teaming up in Toronto isn't as crazy as it seems to me.

Go all out Alex Anthopoulos style, contend for the next 2 years and suffer for the following 10 years.


Or just go after Giannis to extend the contention window. I would expect Ingram to be the same caliber player as 37 year old Durant next year. Just need to surround that roster better.
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Re: Windhorst: Raptors making noise around the league looking for a “big fish” // Giannis & Toronto "Mutual Interest" 

Post#1153 » by Gavin_TDThree » Wed Jun 4, 2025 4:53 pm

at87on wrote:That NBACentel parody tweet about Durant and Giannis teaming up in Toronto isn't as crazy as it seems to me.

Go all out Alex Anthopoulos style, contend for the next 2 years and suffer for the following 10 years.


there's a pic going around of Durant liking that tweet as well.

insert its happening gif
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Re: Windhorst: Raptors making noise around the league looking for a “big fish” // Giannis & Toronto "Mutual Interest" 

Post#1154 » by at87on » Wed Jun 4, 2025 5:02 pm

Sitting in meetings, playing around. Don't flame me.

Who says no?

What would the Raptors have to add in terms of picks to get this done? Scottie is worth what 2-3 FRPs?

Will have to get some min salary players to surround the 2.


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Re: Windhorst: Raptors making noise around the league looking for a “big fish” // Giannis & Toronto "Mutual Interest" 

Post#1155 » by SpezNc » Wed Jun 4, 2025 5:05 pm

earthtone wrote:
Nebuchadnezzar wrote:
earthtone wrote:You’re still right though, it’d be extremely difficult to make any deal work and nearly impossible to make at Scottie centred deal with before July 1st.

For ‘poison pills’, any outgoing salary gies on the books as the current salary, while for the incoming team it’s priced as the extension.

Any trade before the start of next season Scottie would count as a $10 mil outgoing salary for Toronto, but a $38 mil incoming salary for Milwaukee


It's all good the extension counts against Milwaukee's cap even if Scottie is dealt before July 1st

Yah, but it makes salaries pretty much impossible to match when Scottie only counts for $10 million outgoing on the Raptors cap sheet.

Let’s say you add RJ, him + Scottie would count as ~$63 million in incoming salary for Milwaukee but only ~$35 mil in outgoing salary for Toronto.

Neither team has any cap space, so no matter what combination of players you add, one side is gonna have too much incoming salary if Scottie’s involved.


This explained the issue I was having with the ESPN trade machine :D

Once I fixed the Raptors side, there was too much incoming for Milwaukee.

I didn’t realize it was because the Incoming for Milwaukee is 38M while it’s the OUTGOING for Toronto is 10M.
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Re: Windhorst: Raptors making noise around the league looking for a “big fish” // Giannis & Toronto "Mutual Interest" 

Post#1156 » by douggood » Wed Jun 4, 2025 5:05 pm

at87on wrote:Sitting in meetings, playing around. Don't flame me.

Who says no?

What would the Raptors have to add in terms of picks to get this done? Scottie is worth what 2-3 FRPs?

Will have to get some min salary players to surround the 2.


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too much for durant, not enough for Giannis
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Re: Windhorst: Raptors making noise around the league looking for a “big fish” // Giannis & Toronto "Mutual Interest" 

Post#1157 » by MiamiSPX » Wed Jun 4, 2025 5:06 pm

at87on wrote:Sitting in meetings, playing around. Don't flame me.

Who says no?

What would the Raptors have to add in terms of picks to get this done? Scottie is worth what 2-3 FRPs?

Will have to get some min salary players to surround the 2.


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Giannis says no if he has to play Center.
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Re: Windhorst: Raptors making noise around the league looking for a “big fish” // Giannis & Toronto "Mutual Interest" 

Post#1158 » by Kurtz » Wed Jun 4, 2025 5:11 pm

at87on wrote:Sitting in meetings, playing around. Don't flame me.

Who says no?

What would the Raptors have to add in terms of picks to get this done? Scottie is worth what 2-3 FRPs?

Will have to get some min salary players to surround the 2.


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I don't hate this. A little light on the Bucks side and a bit heavy on Phoenix, so maybe that '27 pick goes to Bucks instead, and we add Dick.

Would just have to add a spacing C.
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Re: Windhorst: Raptors making noise around the league looking for a “big fish” // Giannis & Toronto "Mutual Interest" 

Post#1159 » by SpezNc » Wed Jun 4, 2025 5:12 pm

Clutch0z24 wrote:If Cam Johnson is the "Big Fish" that would be funny....But doubt this is going to happen....Why would Masai move down 10 spots in the draft while we would have to try and match 20 mill in salary on top of that...So you are prolly trading RJ on top of that just to move back 10 spots for Cam?....Won't happen...


I think the “big fish” statement by Windy is being a bit overblown in the sense that it make a lot of sense for Toronto to be interested in making a big splash (weak east conference) but I don’t think it’s their only focus.

I mean I think they would like to make a win now move if the opportunity presents itself but when all is said and done maybe it will be no fish, only a small fish, a mid fish, a big fish.

Even if a big fish is being considered it’s probably also the less likely scenario.

Also I would not be surprised if the team evaluate what is the value of RJ + 9 in a trade .
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Re: Windhorst: Raptors making noise around the league looking for a “big fish” // Giannis & Toronto "Mutual Interest" 

Post#1160 » by WuTang_CMB » Wed Jun 4, 2025 5:20 pm

SpezNc wrote:
Clutch0z24 wrote:If Cam Johnson is the "Big Fish" that would be funny....But doubt this is going to happen....Why would Masai move down 10 spots in the draft while we would have to try and match 20 mill in salary on top of that...So you are prolly trading RJ on top of that just to move back 10 spots for Cam?....Won't happen...


I think the “big fish” statement by Windy is being a bit overblown in the sense that it make a lot of sense of Toronto to be interested in making a big splash but I don’t think it’s their only focus.

I mean I think they would like to make a win now move if the opportunity presents itself but when all is said and done maybe it will be no fish, only a small fish, a mid fish, a big fish.

Even if a big fish is being considered it’s probably also the less likely scenario.

Also I would not be surprised if the team evaluate what is the value of RJ + 9 in a trade .


They will be aggressive ... probably moreso than in previous years for a number of factors

- masai wants to flex / new ownership wants better results
- development baby time is over and these guys want to get back to the playoffs
- east is wide open

So it makes all the sense in the world for them to go out and get a star if the price makes sense

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