OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread

[execoftheyear]

You can tell people that if they want to work for you they need to not go to large gatherings in the middle of a pandemic when they are responsible for looking after a vulnerable population. If she isn't responsible enough for that then she can absolutely quit, and it sounds like she should have. Also seems like they could tell by looking at her instagram. Even if that wasn't the vector for how covid got into her facility it is still wildly irresponsible and she shouldn't be working there.

So if you're telling me if you're working at LTC, you basically have to stop having a life because of the pandemic. That's too much, this pandemic affects everyone's mental health as well. Nobody will sign up for that unless they raise the wages by A LOT but even then their mental health will suffer.

YES, if you are working at an LTC you can't go to a **** crowded Halloween party. How in the hell is that "too much"? What the ****? There are vaccines coming in like 5 months! If you are working at an LTC you will probably be jabbed even sooner than that! Suck it the **** up and stop endangering the most vulnerable people in society or quit your damn job.

realistically though, nurses are known to have some of the highest stress levels and mental issues. My cousin is a nurse and she's on so much meds to control her anxiety levels, she's also into heavy drugs which tends to be the case with younger nurses (from what I hear) just to stay sane. My uncle is also a nurse and he's been stressed at work, constantly calling my mom giving her updates about the situation. I used to work at a nightclub and I used to see numerous older nurses come in high af just in their own little world during frosh parties. There's a reason why a lot of nurses in the States are quitting their jobs right now.

[Fairview4Life]

So if you're telling me if you're working at LTC, you basically have to stop having a life because of the pandemic. That's too much, this pandemic affects everyone's mental health as well. Nobody will sign up for that unless they raise the wages by A LOT but even then their mental health will suffer.

YES, if you are working at an LTC you can't go to a **** crowded Halloween party. How in the hell is that "too much"? What the ****? There are vaccines coming in like 5 months! If you are working at an LTC you will probably be jabbed even sooner than that! Suck it the **** up and stop endangering the most vulnerable people in society or quit your damn job.

realistically though, nurses are known to have some of the highest stress levels and mental issues. My cousin is a nurse and she's on so much meds to control her anxiety levels, she's also into heavy drugs which tends to be the case with younger nurses (from what I hear) just to stay sane. My uncle is also a nurse and he's been stressed at work, constantly calling my mom giving her updates about the situation. I used to work at a nightclub and I used to see numerous older nurses come in high af just in their own little world during frosh parties. There's a reason why a lot of nurses in the States are quitting their jobs right now.

The solution isn't to go to Halloween parties and then infect a bunch of old sick people with covid.

[execoftheyear]

YES, if you are working at an LTC you can't go to a **** crowded Halloween party. How in the hell is that "too much"? What the ****? There are vaccines coming in like 5 months! If you are working at an LTC you will probably be jabbed even sooner than that! Suck it the **** up and stop endangering the most vulnerable people in society or quit your damn job.

realistically though, nurses are known to have some of the highest stress levels and mental issues. My cousin is a nurse and she's on so much meds to control her anxiety levels, she's also into heavy drugs which tends to be the case with younger nurses (from what I hear) just to stay sane. My uncle is also a nurse and he's been stressed at work, constantly calling my mom giving her updates about the situation. I used to work at a nightclub and I used to see numerous older nurses come in high af just in their own little world during frosh parties. There's a reason why a lot of nurses in the States are quitting their jobs right now.

The solution isn't to go to Halloween parties and then infect a bunch of old sick people with covid.

the whole point is you can't really isolate the elderly when younger nurses that have lives outside of working at a LTC home regardless of whether it's halloween or not have to take care of them.

[mtcan]

How would they even know? Anyone can say bs like i might have got it from the grocery store. You can't ask people to pause their lives because they work in a LTC, they'll just quit.

You can tell people that if they want to work for you they need to not go to large gatherings in the middle of a pandemic when they are responsible for looking after a vulnerable population. If she isn't responsible enough for that then she can absolutely quit, and it sounds like she should have. Also seems like they could tell by looking at her instagram. Even if that wasn't the vector for how covid got into her facility it is still wildly irresponsible and she shouldn't be working there.

So if you're telling me if you're working at LTC, you basically have to stop having a life because of the pandemic. That's too much, this pandemic affects everyone's mental health as well. Nobody will sign up for that unless they raise the wages by A LOT but even then their mental health will suffer.

Going to parties and large gatherings isn't a huge sacrifice and it certainly isn't going to plunge most of us into a major depression or cause someone to consider suicide.

There are lots of things I miss doing that nobody ever thought twice about 8 months ago. We all have at least one or more habits, routines and just things we miss about pre-pandemic life. It is what it is.

This isn't permanent. It is for a greater good though.

[yogimvp]

Anyone going to halloween parties during a pandemic is already a piece of ****. A health care worker doing it is even worse. I guess some people don't care if they kill their patients.

[ItsDanger]

Halloween party. Halloween party. Halloween party. Halloween party. See what I did? Cause is unknown. Look at the real facts in LTCs.

[Local_NG_Idiot]

Halloween party. Halloween party. Halloween party. Halloween party. See what I did? Cause is unknown. Look at the real facts in LTCs.

you seem to be inferring that you know those facts. care to itemize them?

[ItsDanger]

Halloween party. Halloween party. Halloween party. Halloween party. See what I did? Cause is unknown. Look at the real facts in LTCs.

you seem to be inferring that you know those facts. care to itemize them?

I don't but am inferring we need investigation here given mortality there is much higher than outside.

[Fairview4Life]

realistically though, nurses are known to have some of the highest stress levels and mental issues. My cousin is a nurse and she's on so much meds to control her anxiety levels, she's also into heavy drugs which tends to be the case with younger nurses (from what I hear) just to stay sane. My uncle is also a nurse and he's been stressed at work, constantly calling my mom giving her updates about the situation. I used to work at a nightclub and I used to see numerous older nurses come in high af just in their own little world during frosh parties. There's a reason why a lot of nurses in the States are quitting their jobs right now.

The solution isn't to go to Halloween parties and then infect a bunch of old sick people with covid.

the whole point is you can't really isolate the elderly when younger nurses that have lives outside of working at a LTC home regardless of whether it's halloween or not have to take care of them.

Not "isolating" is different than just not going to a Halloween party.

[Fairview4Life]

Halloween party. Halloween party. Halloween party. Halloween party. See what I did? Cause is unknown. Look at the real facts in LTCs.

The **** are you babbling about now? A nurse at an LTC taking part in a risky activity, whether or not the specific spread came from that activity, is a problem! It's why we don't just let people drive drunk until they hurt or kill someone. We limit that risky behavior when we can.

[ItsDanger]

Halloween party. Halloween party. Halloween party. Halloween party. See what I did? Cause is unknown. Look at the real facts in LTCs.

The **** are you babbling about now? A nurse at an LTC taking part in a risky activity, whether or not the specific spread came from that activity, is a problem! It's why we don't just let people drive drunk until they hurt or kill someone. We limit that risky behavior when we can.

Its the protocols within LTCs that matter. Remember, even a small virus dose can be detrimental to residents.

[execoftheyear]

The solution isn't to go to Halloween parties and then infect a bunch of old sick people with covid.

the whole point is you can't really isolate the elderly when younger nurses that have lives outside of working at a LTC home regardless of whether it's halloween or not have to take care of them.

Not "isolating" is different than just not going to a Halloween party.

LTC homes were hit the hardest before halloween and will continue to be the most vulnerable post halloween. I'm not saying nurses should get a pass for their irresponsible behaviour, I'm just saying there really is no way to protect the elderly in LTC homes given the nature of the work involved in taking care of them, the environment in these homes and the fact that the people responsible for taking care of them have lives outside of working there. You can restrict visitors but you can't really restrict the people directly taking care of them.

[Fairview4Life]

Halloween party. Halloween party. Halloween party. Halloween party. See what I did? Cause is unknown. Look at the real facts in LTCs.

The **** are you babbling about now? A nurse at an LTC taking part in a risky activity, whether or not the specific spread came from that activity, is a problem! It's why we don't just let people drive drunk until they hurt or kill someone. We limit that risky behavior when we can.

Its the protocols within LTCs that matter. Remember, even a small virus dose can be detrimental to residents.

Of course those protocols matter. One of those protocols should be telling your nurses not to attend large gatherings inside for long periods of time and then coming into work.


"My job is to look after a group of people who are highly susceptible to the worst effects of Covid, including death."

"Since Covid spreads easily when you're in an enclosed space with an infected person for an extended period of time with poor ventilation, and there is currently a whole lot of unidentified community spread in our area, please don't do anything stupid like attend a party in an enclosed space with a large group of people for an extended period of time."

"No, Imma just go ahead and do that"

"You're fired"


How is this even a debate?

[Fairview4Life]

the whole point is you can't really isolate the elderly when younger nurses that have lives outside of working at a LTC home regardless of whether it's halloween or not have to take care of them.

Not "isolating" is different than just not going to a Halloween party.

LTC homes were hit the hardest before halloween and will continue to be the most vulnerable post halloween. I'm not saying nurses should get a pass for their irresponsible behaviour, I'm just saying there really is no way to protect the elderly in LTC homes given the nature of the work involved in taking care of them, the environment in these homes and the fact that the people responsible for taking care of them have lives outside of working there. You can restrict visitors but you can't really restrict the people directly taking care of them.

My whole point is that yes, since they are the most vulnerable, people who do need to go there should be restricted and if they act irresponsibly should be punished.

[bballsparkin]

Obviously LTC workers should not be going to parties during a pandemic. They should also be paid more and should have more staff to help out.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-ontario-promises-new-standard-in-long-term-care-to-be-implemented-by/

The Ontario government promised Monday to establish a new standard that would see nursing home residents receive an average of four hours of direct care every day, but critics said the province wasn’t moving fast enough to implement the measure.

Premier Doug Ford pledged to achieve the standard by 2024-25 and said the province will need to hire “tens of thousands” more personal support workers, registered practical nurses and registered nurses to provide the care.

“This is a gold standard in the long-term care sector,” Mr. Ford said. “And we won’t settle for anything less.”

edit: https://canadians.org/analysis/mike-harris-raking-profits-long-term-care-system-he-helped-create

In May, the Toronto Star reported that "three of the largest for-profit nursing home operators in Ontario, which have had disproportionately high numbers of COVID-19 cases and deaths, have together paid out more than $1.5 billion in dividends to shareholders over the last decade."

The article states, "This massive sum does not include $138 million paid in executive compensation and $20 million in stock buybacks (a technique that can boost share prices), according to the financial reports of the province's three biggest publicly traded long-term-care home companies, Extendicare, Sienna Senior Living and Chartwell Retirement Residences."

With all the talks of gyms. Here's a read I thought was good.

https://www.healthing.ca/diseases-and-conditions/coronavirus/why-are-gyms-considered-high-risk-covid-environments

[pingpongrac]

the whole point is you can't really isolate the elderly when younger nurses that have lives outside of working at a LTC home regardless of whether it's halloween or not have to take care of them.

Not "isolating" is different than just not going to a Halloween party.

LTC homes were hit the hardest before halloween and will continue to be the most vulnerable post halloween. I'm not saying nurses should get a pass for their irresponsible behaviour, I'm just saying there really is no way to protect the elderly in LTC homes given the nature of the work involved in taking care of them, the environment in these homes and the fact that the people responsible for taking care of them have lives outside of working there. You can restrict visitors but you can't really restrict the people directly taking care of them.

Everyone has a life outside of work. Why should LTC workers be allowed to live their lives freely?

I'm sick of these BS excuses for people being inconsiderate and irresponsible during the pandemic. I've been working through the pandemic aside from a two-week stretch early on where I thought I may be infected (and at the time, tests were only available to people that fell under the high risk category), so I did the safe thing and self-isolated. The only people I interacted with for the first 6 months was immediate family of my now-fiancée and myself and one friend (who got tested before visiting for a weekend).

My mom was diagnosed with cancer in July and was on her way to beating it before passing suddenly in late September. Because she left behind a son with autism and a dog along with a pile of personal belongings, I started to see more extended family (grandparents, aunts/uncles and cousins) as we tried to navigate this situation and figure out what to do about everything for a few weeks. Even so, we've kept our distance and wore masks when we're going to be in close contact (inside a house or a car, etc.).

I'm sure there are many people who can relate -- maybe even yourself -- but do you know how hard it is to not be able to have a funeral or proper memorial service for my mom while other people are attending big parties because they're bored and miss their old lives?

[Caboclo]

Not "isolating" is different than just not going to a Halloween party.

LTC homes were hit the hardest before halloween and will continue to be the most vulnerable post halloween. I'm not saying nurses should get a pass for their irresponsible behaviour, I'm just saying there really is no way to protect the elderly in LTC homes given the nature of the work involved in taking care of them, the environment in these homes and the fact that the people responsible for taking care of them have lives outside of working there. You can restrict visitors but you can't really restrict the people directly taking care of them.

Everyone has a life outside of work. Why should LTC workers be allowed to live their lives freely?

I'm sick of these BS excuses for people being inconsiderate and irresponsible during the pandemic. I've been working through the pandemic aside from a two-week stretch early on where I thought I may be infected (and at the time, tests were only available to people that fell under the high risk category), so I did the safe thing and self-isolated. The only people I interacted with for the first 6 months was immediate family of my now-fiancée and myself and one friend (who got tested before visiting for a weekend).

My mom was diagnosed with cancer in July and was on her way to beating it before passing suddenly in late September. Because she left behind a son with autism and a dog along with a pile of personal belongings, I started to see more extended family (grandparents, aunts/uncles and cousins) as we tried to navigate this situation and figure out what to do about everything for a few weeks. Even so, we've kept our distance and wore masks when we're going to be in close contact (inside a house or a car, etc.).

I'm sure there are many people who can relate -- maybe even yourself -- but do you know how hard it is to not be able to have a funeral or proper memorial service for my mom while other people are attending big parties because they're bored and miss their old lives?

So sorry to hear that. Really unsettling.

Was your mom's care negatively affected by COVID at all?

And not to be nosy, but what happens to a special needs child in this circumstance? Does the government provide group homes?

[NinjaBro]

I feel that if someone recklessly attends a party and contracts Covid and then gives it to someone who later dies because of it, that person should be charged with first degree murder.

[YelloC]

Since the start of the pandemic, my personal outlook has been to consider this year a mulligan. I was aware of Covid19 early when it was just circulating around China and was telling people that there was a deadly virus that could become an issue.
As a cancer survivor, I have prior experience with self quarantine and not seeing family/friends for an extended stretch because when you’re going through chemotherapy you are advised to avoid people who my have a cold....so everyone. For that reason, I may be a little more suited for dealing with the isolation.

[execoftheyear]

Not "isolating" is different than just not going to a Halloween party.

LTC homes were hit the hardest before halloween and will continue to be the most vulnerable post halloween. I'm not saying nurses should get a pass for their irresponsible behaviour, I'm just saying there really is no way to protect the elderly in LTC homes given the nature of the work involved in taking care of them, the environment in these homes and the fact that the people responsible for taking care of them have lives outside of working there. You can restrict visitors but you can't really restrict the people directly taking care of them.

Everyone has a life outside of work. Why should LTC workers be allowed to live their lives freely?

I'm sick of these BS excuses for people being inconsiderate and irresponsible during the pandemic. I've been working through the pandemic aside from a two-week stretch early on where I thought I may be infected (and at the time, tests were only available to people that fell under the high risk category), so I did the safe thing and self-isolated. The only people I interacted with for the first 6 months was immediate family of my now-fiancée and myself and one friend (who got tested before visiting for a weekend).

My mom was diagnosed with cancer in July and was on her way to beating it before passing suddenly in late September. Because she left behind a son with autism and a dog along with a pile of personal belongings, I started to see more extended family (grandparents, aunts/uncles and cousins) as we tried to navigate this situation and figure out what to do about everything for a few weeks. Even so, we've kept our distance and wore masks when we're going to be in close contact (inside a house or a car, etc.).

I'm sure there are many people who can relate -- maybe even yourself -- but do you know how hard it is to not be able to have a funeral or proper memorial service for my mom while other people are attending big parties because they're bored and miss their old lives?

I'm not referring to living their lives as in partying. I'm talking basic day to day essentials like for example looking after their kids who everyday are at high risk of getting it from simply going to school everyday while their parents are working at a LTC. People keep saying why don't we just isolate the elderly since they're the most vulnerable but the solution isn't this simple when you consider that the people taking care of them have other responsibilities outside of working at an LTC home. That's my point. It's easy for people that are able to work from home to just say self isolate, but when you're a nurse working at a LTC home with a family to take care of, it's a lot more difficult to do your job while following all the safety protocols. They know they're putting the elderly at risk everyday from simply being in contact with their kids who are exposed to a high risk environment, but those same kids rely on them to put food on the table. This is a very difficult situation and there is no simple solution to all of this is what I'm trying to get at.