Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 4

Rapsfan07 · Post #1181 » by **Rapsfan07** » Wed Feb 1, 2012 6:05 pm

Greg Oden was risking. Brandon Roy was risky. Bargnani was risky. Val can still be considered a risky pick. It's the type of move you have to make if you're drafting for a franchise that can't bring in high end talent.

Maybe I think differently but I take a shot at a player who "might need" 5 years to develop into star than take a guy who's very likely to become a complimentary piece. We have enough of those. What we need is a star. That's just my take though.

Drummond is scary. But all the Top 3 bigs have holes in their games. PJ III is a offensive big who plays suspect D and doesn't rebound like he should, Drummond - nuff said and Davis doesn't have much on an offensive game. But in this sport, you need stars. We currently have none and since nobody's trading us a star and we're not signing one, I'd take the risk on Drummond and Lamb over MKG.

Marlo Stanfield · Post #1182 » by **Marlo Stanfield** » Wed Feb 1, 2012 6:09 pm

The fact is, we're not guaranteed anything so everyone is in the crap shoot. This draft will be deep, but make no mistake, it's not 2003, 1996, or 1984. All I'm saying is, if I'm guaranteed something I'll take it over a risk. It's like a gameshow where they say get $500 now or go double or nothing on our last question. I'm taking my $500 9/10 times. But in reality, I'm taking Lamb over MKG as well.

fredericklove · Post #1183 » by **fredericklove** » Wed Feb 1, 2012 6:10 pm

Marlo Stanfield wrote:The draft is one big guessing game. If I know nothing about Lamb, Barnes, Drummond or Davis, but I am GUARANTEED MKG will be Gerald Wallace of course I pick him. Why risk it when you have the sure thing? It's the same philosophy behind trading a proven player for an unproven draft pick. The player does not always equal the pick in the long run, but one is the sure thing and the other is not.

Same, MKG is a guaranteed impact player, if demar wasn't such a "meh" player that can't shoot consistent 3s then i wouldn't be concern about having both of them in the game (we'll be the worst 3 point shooting team :lol:

), otherwise he's going to help you win game in many ways.

Dr Positivity · Post #1184 » by **Dr Positivity** » Wed Feb 1, 2012 6:11 pm

Marlo Stanfield wrote:I am being serious. What's wrong with Gerald Wallace? Every team in the league can benefit from a Gerald Wallace. The guy is a stat-stuffer, as close to a 5-tool guy you can get in the NBA. If you're guaranteed that MKG would be Gerald Wallace there's nothing wrong with taking him in the top-5 imo.

That's the problem. MKG is nowhere near a guarantee to be Gerald Wallace. He's a guarantee to be Gerald Wallace like Barnes is a guarantee to be Danny Granger or Drummond is a guarantee to be Amar'e. Can happen if everything goes right. I wouldn't bet on it

Tbh I like the MKG Wallace comparison less than Barnes-Granger and Drummond-Amare anyways. MKG is not Wallace physically. He's a big tier down athletically (Wallace is a freak, MKG is maybe as dynamic athletically as Dallas Marion) and he's not oversized for a SF. Wallace with 70% of his explosiveness and minus 2 inches isn't the same player. At that point he'd be Kawhi Leonard.

MKG is as athletic as Demar Derozan. Good for the NBA level. But not dynamic. DD being a special athlete was way overblown and if we draft MKG I expect it'll be the same. Demar also had a few inches added to his resume pre draft. I remember people telling me that there was no way DD wouldn't be big enough to play at SF. Turns out he's not even oversized for a SG.

I actually think MKG is going to need to rely on his skill game in the NBA like Demar has to if he wants to be a good starter. MKG can already shoot 3s better than Wallace ever could and really isn't that bad handling the ball, and he has way more court vision/passing than G Wallace. With his size I could see him being a SG for sure. I think he's pretty close to DD in size. MKG has potential but I see him as a project who will take years of skill development. The 3 will be key. If he turns out he can be a guy who can guard both SGs and SFs, nail open 3s and finish at the rim.

If MKG is an all-star I see him being Caron Butler, not Gerald Wallace

Hendrix · Post #1185 » by **Hendrix** » Wed Feb 1, 2012 6:11 pm

Rapsfan07 wrote:Gilchrist is not our guy. I like him a lot but he's not the one for us. We need a better guy than that. We cannot afford to settle for Gerald Wallace in the Top 5.

Umm...Not sure if you're being serious?

Do you believe in a draft like this that it would be worthwhile for us to take Gilchirst in the Top 5 if in fact his ceiling really is a Gerald Wallace?

I think the confusion is that you are saying 2 different things. In the first quote it sounds like you are saying that if you know the end result is MGK will end up like G-Wall you don't take him. In the 2nd one you are saying that if his ceiling is G-Wall you don't take him.

Now if we somehow knew that the end result of MKG would be G-Wall, then you absolutly take him. Drafts generally do not have 5 guys better then G-Wall in them.

If we are saying that his ceiling is G-Wall though, and there's a possibility he could be Terrance Williams, or Jamario Moon then that's a legitimate case not to take him in the top 5.

Rapsfan07 · Post #1186 » by **Rapsfan07** » Wed Feb 1, 2012 6:18 pm

Marlo Stanfield wrote:The draft is one big guessing game. If I know nothing about Lamb, Barnes, Drummond or Davis, but I am GUARANTEED MKG will be Gerald Wallace of course I pick him. Why risk it when you have the sure thing? It's the same philosophy behind trading a proven player for an unproven draft pick. The player does not always equal the pick in the long run, but one is the sure thing and the other is not.

Because taking the sure thing NEVER nets you a star unless you have the #1 pick (and even then, you can still be wrong) or it's a really strong draft. I like MKG though I hope nobody gets that twisted but if you're T.O, I don't think it would be wise to pass up on a possible star like Lamb or Drummond for a sure fire role player. Doing that would be the same things as waiting until a star or the #1 lands in our laps...very VERY unlikely.

Dr Positivity · Post #1187 » by **Dr Positivity** » Wed Feb 1, 2012 6:24 pm

Actually, I'm completley sold on the MKG - Caron Butler comparison now that I think about.

Marlo Stanfield · Post #1188 » by **Marlo Stanfield** » Wed Feb 1, 2012 6:27 pm

My question, but my name is not Tyrone :lol:

Tyrone (Toronto)

Is Bargnani and All-Star?
Chad Ford
(1:17 PM)

I'd choose Roy Hibbert over Bargnani.

Marlo Stanfield · Post #1189 » by **Marlo Stanfield** » Wed Feb 1, 2012 6:28 pm

Dr Mufasa wrote:Actually, I'm completley sold on the MKG - Caron Butler comparison now that I think about.

I don't see it, Caron can be a GREAT scorer if he wants to be. MKG is not even close in the scoring category.

Rapsfan07 · Post #1190 » by **Rapsfan07** » Wed Feb 1, 2012 6:30 pm

Hendrix wrote:
Rapsfan07 wrote:Gilchrist is not our guy. I like him a lot but he's not the one for us. We need a better guy than that. We cannot afford to settle for Gerald Wallace in the Top 5.

Umm...Not sure if you're being serious?

Do you believe in a draft like this that it would be worthwhile for us to take Gilchirst in the Top 5 if in fact his ceiling really is a Gerald Wallace?

I think the confusion is that you are saying 2 different things. In the first quote it sounds like you are saying that if you know the end result is MGK will end up like G-Wall you don't take him. In the 2nd one you are saying that if his ceiling is G-Wall you don't take him.

Now if we somehow knew that the end result of MKG would be G-Wall, then you absolutly take him. Drafts generally do not have 5 guys better then G-Wall in them.

If we are saying that his ceiling is G-Wall though, and there's a possibility he could be Terrance Williams, or Jamario Moon then that's a legitimate case not to take him in the top 5.

I am saying that I think his ceiling is G-Will. Thanks for the clarification. I should have watched my words there. That's just my opinion though. I guess what I'm saying though is he looks much to similar to DeRozan in that he's a lower-end starter. I think his rebounding and defense will translate but that's just about it. Everything else is up for grabs.

Marlo Stanfield · Post #1191 » by **Marlo Stanfield** » Wed Feb 1, 2012 6:37 pm

Rapsfan07 wrote:
I am saying that I think his ceiling is G-Will. Thanks for the clarification. I should have watched my words there. That's just my opinion though. I guess what I'm saying though is he looks much to similar to DeRozan in that he's a lower-end starter. I think his rebounding and defense will translate but that's just about it. Everything else is up for grabs.

Saying ceiling changes everything...

Marlo Stanfield · Post #1192 » by **Marlo Stanfield** » Wed Feb 1, 2012 6:39 pm

David (Fort Worth)

Are most GM's telling you Anthony Davis is no. 1 overall? I agree with you that he should be no. 1 but a lot of sites out there can't get over Andre Drummond despite his lack of production.
Chad Ford
(1:35 PM)

Hate to kill the suspense ... but Anthony Davis shows up No. 1 every time you play the Mock Draft Machine. Regardless of what team gets the No. 1 pick. Just talked with a head scout or GM from every team in the league. All of them have Anthony Davis No. 1.

Julius ( Atlanta)

Okay, so Davis is #1, my question is who does he compare to at this moment?
Chad Ford
(1:37 PM)

He's a very unique player. He's some sort of hybrid between Kevin Garnett and Marcus Camby.

Craig (SLC)

Is there a better fit for Kidd-Gilchrist that the Jazz (via Warriors pick)? A wing trio of Burks, Hayward, and Gilchrist would be stout.
Chad Ford
(1:38 PM)

Kidd-Gilchrist is a good fit for any team. He plays so hard every night, defends multiple positions and just cares about winning and team over individual accolades. Dave Telep told me he's been like that his whole high school career. Yes, he still is an emerging offensive player ... but not sure how you go wrong with a guy like that.

James F. (Palestine, Texas)

Chad, watched a couple University of Washington games this year, looks to me that Terrence Ross has BIG TIME NBA potential. Your thoughts?
Chad Ford
(1:39 PM)

Love Ross's potential, though I'm not sure I'd put big time in all caps like you did. Wish his production, on a consistent basis, always backed that up.

Marlo Stanfield · Post #1193 » by **Marlo Stanfield** » Wed Feb 1, 2012 6:41 pm

David (Fort Worth)

What do GM's say about Jeremy Lamb? I think he should be in the top 5 and would be huge for teams like Detroit, Cleveland and New Orleans.
Chad Ford
(1:40 PM)

A few have him in the Top 5. 6-10 more likely. Cleveland is the best fit of the three you mentioned. Jazz and Suns are two other teams where he'd be a good fit.

mark (cleveland )

Is Sullinger athletic enough to play the 4 in the NBA?
Chad Ford
(1:45 PM)

That's the question. I've got my concerns. Love his game, but it worries me.
Tim (Toronto)

Chad, you haven't answered a Raptors question all year. Have you decided to have mercy on yourself and stop watching the poor saps? Either way, wouldn't Jeremy Lamb, Harrison Barnes or MKG look pretty perfect from a Toronto perspective?
Chad Ford
(1:46 PM)

Yes. I think they'd still take Anthony Davis one if they got the pick and figure out how to play him, Jonas Valanciunas and Andrea Bargnani together. But if they don't get No. 1 -- they'll have a tough choice between Harrison Barnes and MKG. Barnes is a much better offensive player, MKG brings all the intangibles.

Terrence Jones (Kentucky)

Why doesn't anyone like me anymore?
Chad Ford
(1:49 PM)

Because scouts are settling in on a comp for you ... and it's Antoine Walker.

Aaron (Seattle)

Where is Tony Wroten at on most team's boards now?
Chad Ford
(1:50 PM)

All over the place. Crazy, crazy talent. Very, very wild. He's the type of player who could be a home run or a strikeout depending on the situation he's in. I know a few teams who have him in their Top 10. A few more that have him out of their Top 30.

Dr Positivity · Post #1194 » by **Dr Positivity** » Wed Feb 1, 2012 6:50 pm

Marlo Stanfield wrote:
Dr Mufasa wrote:Actually, I'm completley sold on the MKG - Caron Butler comparison now that I think about.

I don't see it, Caron can be a GREAT scorer if he wants to be. MKG is not even close in the scoring category.

Well, MKG turned 18 last September 28th, the guy is extremely young. He's hit 11 3s and is a shade under 30% from 3 this year and is shooting 76% from the FT line. In Butler's freshman season he went 14 for 46 total the entire year from 3 (30%) and shot 76% from the line. MKG is not that bad a shooter for a young guy. Both guys are a league above USC Derozan who was a 17% 3pt shooter and 65% from the line. Freshman Iguodala went 9 for 44 (20%) from 3 and 67% from the FT line. Bama G Wallace shot 18% from 3 and 57% from the line. The FT% is important, that's usually a great indicator of someone's stroke. 76% for MKG is pretty damn solid at his age. It means he can get above 80% easily and everyone who does that can shoot the ball. I think MKG's athletic potential is overblown but his skill game potential is underrated

Basically MKG is a project, you look at him and say "That 3pt shot looks solid for a young guy, we can work out it to make it a weapon. Add that to solid ballhandling, size and NBA athleticism and he could be a pretty good all around player". If it doesn't work out you might have a Moon T Will type as mentioned. But there's risk to all these players, Barnes could be Marvin Williams and Sullinger could be Big Baby, etc.

With that said drafting Butler isn't exactly a franchise changer so I'm not that sold on MKG being a 2nd or 3rd overall pick or anything.

Post #1195 » by **Rhettmatic** » Wed Feb 1, 2012 6:51 pm

As Marlo posted before...

Tim (Toronto)

Chad, you haven't answered a Raptors question all year. Have you decided to have mercy on yourself and stop watching the poor saps? Either way, wouldn't Jeremy Lamb, Harrison Barnes or MKG look pretty perfect from a Toronto perspective?

Chad Ford (1:46 PM)

Yes. I think they'd still take Anthony Davis one if they got the pick and figure out how to play him, Jonas Valanciunas and Andrea Bargnani together. But if they don't get No. 1 -- they'll have a tough choice between Harrison Barnes and MKG. Barnes is a much better offensive player, MKG brings all the intangibles.

I'm not sure why Ford seems so convinced that Barnes and MKG are in a different class than Lamb. I don't see it that way.

Marlo Stanfield · Post #1196 » by **Marlo Stanfield** » Wed Feb 1, 2012 6:53 pm

Jarrod (Superior)

Is it unrealistic to say that I see Perry Jones' ceiling being LaMarcus Aldridge?
Chad Ford
(1:52 PM)

That's not a bad call, though I think Jones sees himself as more of a perimeter player. Did you read the great Dave Telep's blog on him a few days ago? This is why he scares so many GMs. http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/dave-telep/post?id=872

Bradley (Beal)

I can't wait to slip to the bottom half of the lottery and then prove everybody wrong
Chad Ford
(1:52 PM)

He's the one guy who, on talent, probably should be a lot higher. He's a weird fit on that Florida team.

Marlo Stanfield · Post #1197 » by **Marlo Stanfield** » Wed Feb 1, 2012 6:54 pm

Rhettmatic wrote:
I'm not sure why Ford seems so convinced that Barnes and MKG are in a different class than Lamb. I don't see it that way.

My honest opinion is that Lamb turns out better than both Barnes and MKG.

Marlo Stanfield · Post #1198 » by **Marlo Stanfield** » Wed Feb 1, 2012 6:55 pm

Austin Rivers (California)

Will I enter the draft this year?
Chad Ford
(1:53 PM)

I hope not. You really need another year to learn how to play without the ball in your hands all the time.

Jamie (Portland)

Harrison Barnes' lack of elite athleticism makes it tough enough for him to dominate at the college level, and it will only get harder in the NBA. He reminds me more of Joe Johnson than Paul Pierce.
Chad Ford
(1:54 PM)

Joe Johnson and Danny Granger are good comps. But why so down on those comps? Both were All-Stars.

The chat has ended...

Post #1199 » by **Alfred** » Wed Feb 1, 2012 7:01 pm

Jarrod (Superior)

Is it unrealistic to say that I see Perry Jones' ceiling being LaMarcus Aldridge?
Chad Ford
(1:52 PM)

That's not a bad call, though I think Jones sees himself as more of a perimeter player. Did you read the great Dave Telep's blog on him a few days ago? This is why he scares so many GMs. http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/dave-telep/post?id=872

Sounds a bit (and he looks a bit) like Lamar Odom.

Homer Jay · Post #1200 » by **Homer Jay** » Wed Feb 1, 2012 7:20 pm

Rhettmatic wrote:As Marlo posted before...

Tim (Toronto)

Chad, you haven't answered a Raptors question all year. Have you decided to have mercy on yourself and stop watching the poor saps? Either way, wouldn't Jeremy Lamb, Harrison Barnes or MKG look pretty perfect from a Toronto perspective?

Chad Ford (1:46 PM)

Yes. I think they'd still take Anthony Davis one if they got the pick and figure out how to play him, Jonas Valanciunas and Andrea Bargnani together. But if they don't get No. 1 -- they'll have a tough choice between Harrison Barnes and MKG. Barnes is a much better offensive player, MKG brings all the intangibles.

I'm not sure why Ford seems so convinced that Barnes and MKG are in a different class than Lamb. I don't see it that way.

Are we basically looking at Barnes being Danny Granger and MKG being Iggy? This team needs Iggy more than Granger. What's the best comparison on Lamb? Brandon Roy?

Who do you want the Raptors to draft in the 2012 NBA Draft?