OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread

[Fairview4Life]

LTC homes were hit the hardest before halloween and will continue to be the most vulnerable post halloween. I'm not saying nurses should get a pass for their irresponsible behaviour, I'm just saying there really is no way to protect the elderly in LTC homes given the nature of the work involved in taking care of them, the environment in these homes and the fact that the people responsible for taking care of them have lives outside of working there. You can restrict visitors but you can't really restrict the people directly taking care of them.

Everyone has a life outside of work. Why should LTC workers be allowed to live their lives freely?

I'm sick of these BS excuses for people being inconsiderate and irresponsible during the pandemic. I've been working through the pandemic aside from a two-week stretch early on where I thought I may be infected (and at the time, tests were only available to people that fell under the high risk category), so I did the safe thing and self-isolated. The only people I interacted with for the first 6 months was immediate family of my now-fiancée and myself and one friend (who got tested before visiting for a weekend).

My mom was diagnosed with cancer in July and was on her way to beating it before passing suddenly in late September. Because she left behind a son with autism and a dog along with a pile of personal belongings, I started to see more extended family (grandparents, aunts/uncles and cousins) as we tried to navigate this situation and figure out what to do about everything for a few weeks. Even so, we've kept our distance and wore masks when we're going to be in close contact (inside a house or a car, etc.).

I'm sure there are many people who can relate -- maybe even yourself -- but do you know how hard it is to not be able to have a funeral or proper memorial service for my mom while other people are attending big parties because they're bored and miss their old lives?

I'm not referring to living their lives as in partying. I'm talking basic day to day essentials like for example looking after their kids who everyday are at high risk of getting it from simply going to school everyday while their parents are working at a LTC. People keep saying why don't we just isolate the elderly since they're the most vulnerable but the solution isn't this simple when you consider that the people taking care of them have other responsibilities outside of working at an LTC home. That's my point. It's easy for people that are able to work from home to just say self isolate, but when you're a nurse working at a LTC home with a family to take care of, it's a lot more difficult to do your job while following all the safety protocols.

Yes, there are risks. minimizing those risks is what we are talking about here. Triaging what should/needs to be open and what doesn't is pretty straight forward, especially now that we know there are vaccines on the way. When cases are going way up, pay everyone else to stay home for a few weeks to a month until cases go back down, then think about reopening restaurants or other non essential businesses.

[pingpongrac]

LTC homes were hit the hardest before halloween and will continue to be the most vulnerable post halloween. I'm not saying nurses should get a pass for their irresponsible behaviour, I'm just saying there really is no way to protect the elderly in LTC homes given the nature of the work involved in taking care of them, the environment in these homes and the fact that the people responsible for taking care of them have lives outside of working there. You can restrict visitors but you can't really restrict the people directly taking care of them.

Everyone has a life outside of work. Why should LTC workers be allowed to live their lives freely?

I'm sick of these BS excuses for people being inconsiderate and irresponsible during the pandemic. I've been working through the pandemic aside from a two-week stretch early on where I thought I may be infected (and at the time, tests were only available to people that fell under the high risk category), so I did the safe thing and self-isolated. The only people I interacted with for the first 6 months was immediate family of my now-fiancée and myself and one friend (who got tested before visiting for a weekend).

My mom was diagnosed with cancer in July and was on her way to beating it before passing suddenly in late September. Because she left behind a son with autism and a dog along with a pile of personal belongings, I started to see more extended family (grandparents, aunts/uncles and cousins) as we tried to navigate this situation and figure out what to do about everything for a few weeks. Even so, we've kept our distance and wore masks when we're going to be in close contact (inside a house or a car, etc.).

I'm sure there are many people who can relate -- maybe even yourself -- but do you know how hard it is to not be able to have a funeral or proper memorial service for my mom while other people are attending big parties because they're bored and miss their old lives?

So sorry to hear that. Really unsettling.

Was your mom's care negatively affected by COVID at all?

And not to be nosy, but what happens to a special needs child in this circumstance? Does the government provide group homes?

She got very good immediate care/treatment. From her diagnosis to first round of chemo, I think it was less than a week. PSWs weren't there near as often as they should have been later on, and I still think one of them could have done at least something if they were there in the ~48-hour span where she had no assistance. So yes, how much care she got definitely seemed to be affected by COVID. The first wave was over and daily cases were as low as they've been since the early days when she got the diagnosis/started chemo. PSWs were there multiple times each day in August and early September, but then cases started to climb a bit more and it seemed like she'd be lucky to see one PSW each day in the last two weeks.

Regarding my brother, his dad is very much in the picture and taking care of him now. He works shift work though, so it was more trying to figure out who'd be able to be there on days/nights when he has to work.

[Lord_Zedd]

Over a week later Ford finally decides to revise the colour coded thresholds.....

There were already red flags when they released this chart and public health had no say on the final draft.

Now that Ford and Elliot got caught in a bold faced lie, those two dumb asses literally made the spread much worse, and businesses who spent all the $$$ prepping to re-open before and now - got **** even harder than ever before.

If only Ford listened to public health, and not his "folks".

Unbelievable this government.

[Caboclo]

Everyone has a life outside of work. Why should LTC workers be allowed to live their lives freely?

I'm sick of these BS excuses for people being inconsiderate and irresponsible during the pandemic. I've been working through the pandemic aside from a two-week stretch early on where I thought I may be infected (and at the time, tests were only available to people that fell under the high risk category), so I did the safe thing and self-isolated. The only people I interacted with for the first 6 months was immediate family of my now-fiancée and myself and one friend (who got tested before visiting for a weekend).

My mom was diagnosed with cancer in July and was on her way to beating it before passing suddenly in late September. Because she left behind a son with autism and a dog along with a pile of personal belongings, I started to see more extended family (grandparents, aunts/uncles and cousins) as we tried to navigate this situation and figure out what to do about everything for a few weeks. Even so, we've kept our distance and wore masks when we're going to be in close contact (inside a house or a car, etc.).

I'm sure there are many people who can relate -- maybe even yourself -- but do you know how hard it is to not be able to have a funeral or proper memorial service for my mom while other people are attending big parties because they're bored and miss their old lives?

So sorry to hear that. Really unsettling.

Was your mom's care negatively affected by COVID at all?

And not to be nosy, but what happens to a special needs child in this circumstance? Does the government provide group homes?

She got very good immediate care/treatment. From her diagnosis to first round of chemo, I think it was less than a week. PSWs weren't there near as often as they should have been later on, and I still think one of them could have done at least something if they were there in the ~48-hour span where she had no assistance. So yes, how much care she got definitely seemed to be affected by COVID. The first wave was over and daily cases were as low as they've been since the early days when she got the diagnosis/started chemo. PSWs were there multiple times each day in August and early September, but then cases started to climb a bit more and it seemed like she'd be lucky to see one PSW each day in the last two weeks.

Regarding my brother, his dad is very much in the picture and taking care of him now. He works shift work though, so it was more trying to figure out who'd be able to be there on days/nights when he has to work.

Thanks for answering my questions.

puts into perspective how much of a biatch cancer can be. Really saddening that she received less car due to the covid crisis.

Can't imagine losing my mother during all this and not being able to attend her funeral.....you have every right to be upset at all the idiots and hooligans. My condolences to you and your family. Let's all pray this comes to an end soon.

[raptorstime]

Hamilton, Halton, and York region enter code red.

Read on Twitter

[Jeremy Lin 7]

Over a week later Ford finally decides to revise the colour coded thresholds.....

There were already red flags when they released this chart and public health had no say on the final draft.

Now that Ford and Elliot got caught in a bold faced lie, those two dumb asses literally made the spread much worse, and businesses who spent all the $$$ prepping to re-open before and now - got **** even harder than ever before.

If only Ford listened to public health, and not his "folks".

Unbelievable this government.

Conservative governments are unbelievable. Look no further than Alberta and Ontario.

[markR]

Over a week later Ford finally decides to revise the colour coded thresholds.....

There were already red flags when they released this chart and public health had no say on the final draft.

Now that Ford and Elliot got caught in a bold faced lie, those two dumb asses literally made the spread much worse, and businesses who spent all the $$$ prepping to re-open before and now - got **** even harder than ever before.

If only Ford listened to public health, and not his "folks".

Unbelievable this government.

Conservative governments are unbelievable. Look no further than Alberta and Ontario.

Hardly, dr nice bonnie has also lost a handle and her nice nice nice attitude has resulted in basically people ignoring her.

Easy for politicians to lock down but unfortunately, we place a value on life all the time.

People just seem to have a hard time seeing that directly.

Mostly they see a single news story about local government not paying 200K for experimental or rare cancer treatment. We chalk that up to ho hum. Glad it's not me. But here we are. We see how economics balance with life.

I just accept it and advise my family members at risk the only ones looking out for them is us and themselves.

But canadians make economic decisions all the time when it comes to health care.

Please spare us with anything other than the truth.

Unfortunately every life does and will not get saved. Never was and never will.

[markR]

My ex works at a LTC and went to a halloween party (saw her ig stories) and then a week after they got an outbreak in the building. What can government do about this? The staff just do whatever the **** they want in their own time.

I mean, the facility should fire her for endangering the lives of all of the residents, as a first step.

How would they even know? Anyone can say bs like i might have got it from the grocery store. You can't ask people to pause their lives because they work in a LTC, they'll just quit.

Like I said. We have never been in this together. And never will be. Hypocrisy and inequality has reared its head in a big way and brought out the horrible in the illusory "polite" canadian.

[Hero]

Lockdowns will do nothing to stop the social gatherings week after week of friends and friends of friends meeting up week after week after week. We all see it. Look at Halloween. Google some socials. Every fri and sat night for months. People dont care.

These people are not going to follow rules any more. Happened in the EU and US and even lockdowns have not curbed numbers.

Blame schools but numbers were all ready on a bad trend in early august.

We had 8 months of stern warnings but no real enforcement. I see more parking tickets handed out downtown than I'm sure for people breaking covid rules.

At this point, I dont care either. But then again, I live a stage 2 life, so I'd not really miss much locked down.

Looks like people in toronto will kybosh any games here for another year. At least I'll save my money on tickets.

I am just trying to wait it out and make the most of life. Look to get some more exercise equipment at home. Work is chill enough remotely as well.

What I feel really concerned for is all these people in small, cramped apartments. It's one thing if you have a comfy living quarters, large basement etc.

But when there's limited options to go outdoors for months on end and people are mostly stuck in pretty awful living conditions. It just widens the inequality gap even more. When I compare some of these smaller apartments I've visited and compare it to your average home/townhome...such a big disparity. At least pre covid there was a lot more opportunities to get out, be with friends from school or at work, go to different activities etc.

[markR]

Lockdowns will do nothing to stop the social gatherings week after week of friends and friends of friends meeting up week after week after week. We all see it. Look at Halloween. Google some socials. Every fri and sat night for months. People dont care.

These people are not going to follow rules any more. Happened in the EU and US and even lockdowns have not curbed numbers.

Blame schools but numbers were all ready on a bad trend in early august.

We had 8 months of stern warnings but no real enforcement. I see more parking tickets handed out downtown than I'm sure for people breaking covid rules.

At this point, I dont care either. But then again, I live a stage 2 life, so I'd not really miss much locked down.

Looks like people in toronto will kybosh any games here for another year. At least I'll save my money on tickets.

I am just trying to wait it out and make the most of life. Look to get some more exercise equipment at home. Work is chill enough remotely as well.

What I feel really concerned for is all these people in small, cramped apartments. It's one thing if you have a comfy living quarters, large basement etc.

But when there's limited options to go outdoors for months on end and people are mostly stuck in pretty awful living conditions. It just widens the inequality gap even more. When I compare some of these smaller apartments I've visited and compare it to your average home/townhome...such a big disparity. At least pre covid there was a lot more opportunities to get out, be with friends from school or at work, go to different activities etc.

That's the elephant in the room that no politicians dare speak of. The inequality and hypocrisy is astonishing and unfortunately, the ones most impacted are the ones whose voices are never heard even absent a pandemic.

I have no idea how some are fairing. Now with CERB coming to an end, those who did not get employment, will be extremely hard.

The homelessness problem downtown is very stark and another elephant in the room. But people like Dougie and so many others dont see it day in and day out.

Just wait until the inequality when the vaccine comes out and all the rich people that find all sorts of exceptions as to why they are first in line. How that plays out will surely be a low point in Ontario. Why the feds will allow provinces to do this is beyond me.

We can not even role out and vaccinate anyone who wants a flu shot. Clearly some information is not being given as to why there are flu shot shortages. So lack of transparency on flu shots will make lack of transparency on COVID vaccines pale in comparison.

[NinjaBro]

42 people tested positive at a gym outbreak in Surrey BC. Surrey is the BC equivalent of Brampton.

https://vancouversun.com/news/covid-19-at-least-42-people-test-positive-in-surrey-gym-outbreak

So I was on my way home yesterday and passed by a gym that was limiting the number of people inside. There was a lineup around the block with people waiting to get in. I can't imagine waiting in line for 2 or 3 hours to get into that cesspool. People need to start working out at home ffs.

[Basketball_Jones]

42 people tested positive at a gym outbreak in Surrey BC. Surrey is the BC equivalent of Brampton.

https://vancouversun.com/news/covid-19-at-least-42-people-test-positive-in-surrey-gym-outbreak

So I was on my way home yesterday and passed by a gym that was limiting the number of people inside. There was a lineup around the block with people waiting to get in. I can't imagine waiting in line for 2 or 3 hours to get into that cesspool. People need to start working out at home ffs.

Lol wow it’s not even worth it if u have to wait outside just to get in. Just figure out how to work out at home.

[Tor_Raps]

42 people tested positive at a gym outbreak in Surrey BC. Surrey is the BC equivalent of Brampton.

https://vancouversun.com/news/covid-19-at-least-42-people-test-positive-in-surrey-gym-outbreak

So I was on my way home yesterday and passed by a gym that was limiting the number of people inside. There was a lineup around the block with people waiting to get in. I can't imagine waiting in line for 2 or 3 hours to get into that cesspool. People need to start working out at home ffs.

Lol wow it’s not even worth it if u have to wait outside just to get in. Just figure out how to work out at home.

I have waited up to 30 minutes just to get in. It sucks lol. For people like me, gym is like my form of meditation. Keeps me feeling good and is a great mental reset. Thankfully most gyms here have started taking appointments and are only allowing like 20 people in overall.

Working out at home is hard for some because of the lack of equipment and a crappy environment. Go check out how much weights cost lol.

[BDDray420]

Not "isolating" is different than just not going to a Halloween party.

LTC homes were hit the hardest before halloween and will continue to be the most vulnerable post halloween. I'm not saying nurses should get a pass for their irresponsible behaviour, I'm just saying there really is no way to protect the elderly in LTC homes given the nature of the work involved in taking care of them, the environment in these homes and the fact that the people responsible for taking care of them have lives outside of working there. You can restrict visitors but you can't really restrict the people directly taking care of them.

My whole point is that yes, since they are the most vulnerable, people who do need to go there should be restricted and if they act irresponsibly should be punished.

She gets tested every two weeks and doesn't worry about covid. That's why she goes out with friends and goes to parties. Even if she does have to get tested, there's that period in between tests where she may have the virus.

[GQStylin]

This is why our leaders and supposed experts are EFFING IDIOTS. Yet again in the past week we had 71 seniors in LTC facilities which is just plain STUPID that our government has allowed it to happen after all we've learned in the past months and we had an entire summer to prepare LTC homes to be ready so that people could be protected quickly and yet they didn't.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/long-term-care-home-deaths-covid-19-second-wave-1.5801804

YET AGAIN our STUPID ASS 'medical experts' and leaders are so worried about the rise in infects even as YET AGAIN LTC is making up the majority of deaths we're seeing recently. We've had almost 2 straight months of day after day of hundreds of new infections and recently even 1,000+ infection days and yet despite all that we've only increased about 400 hospital cases to 580 for the whole province during that time period.

https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data

Crazy to look at that data and see only little over 440 people under the age of 70 have died all this time during the pandemic in Ontario. Go down do 60 yrs old and below and only 149 have died and yet WHO CARES about the data. This is including the fact that there's almost 3 MILLION seniors living in Ontario so even the most vulnerable group of people to the virus aren't dying by the thousands. But hey lets just keep destroying ourselves because we refuse to believe the facts and continue to fearmonger like this is some super virus or something.

[execoftheyear]

This is why our leaders and supposed experts are EFFING IDIOTS. Yet again in the past week we had 71 seniors in LTC facilities which is just plain STUPID that our government has allowed it to happen after all we've learned in the past months and we had an entire summer to prepare LTC homes to be ready so that people could be protected quickly and yet they didn't.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/long-term-care-home-deaths-covid-19-second-wave-1.5801804

YET AGAIN our STUPID ASS 'medical experts' and leaders are so worried about the rise in infects even as YET AGAIN LTC is making up the majority of deaths we're seeing recently. We've had almost 2 straight months of day after day of hundreds of new infections and recently even 1,000+ infection days and yet despite all that we've only increased about 400 hospital cases to 580 for the whole province during that time period.

https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data

Crazy to look at that data and see only little over 440 people under the age of 70 have died all this time during the pandemic in Ontario. Go down do 60 yrs old and below and only 149 have died and yet WHO CARES about the data. This is including the fact that there's almost 3 MILLION seniors living in Ontario so even the most vulnerable group of people to the virus aren't dying by the thousands. But hey lets just keep destroying ourselves because we refuse to believe the facts and continue to fearmonger like this is some super virus or something.

someone educate this fool on how exponential growth works

[Lord_Zedd]

42 people tested positive at a gym outbreak in Surrey BC. Surrey is the BC equivalent of Brampton.

https://vancouversun.com/news/covid-19-at-least-42-people-test-positive-in-surrey-gym-outbreak

So I was on my way home yesterday and passed by a gym that was limiting the number of people inside. There was a lineup around the block with people waiting to get in. I can't imagine waiting in line for 2 or 3 hours to get into that cesspool. People need to start working out at home ffs.

Some contact tracing work in BC

[Local_NG_Idiot]

This is why our leaders and supposed experts are EFFING IDIOTS. Yet again in the past week we had 71 seniors in LTC facilities which is just plain STUPID that our government has allowed it to happen after all we've learned in the past months and we had an entire summer to prepare LTC homes to be ready so that people could be protected quickly and yet they didn't.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/long-term-care-home-deaths-covid-19-second-wave-1.5801804

YET AGAIN our STUPID ASS 'medical experts' and leaders are so worried about the rise in infects even as YET AGAIN LTC is making up the majority of deaths we're seeing recently.

from the CBC article:

"And we've had 200 deaths since mid-September, that's 200 deaths within our province's long-term care residents in the second wave."

Since mid-September Ontario has had 1041 deaths recorded, so if the 200 LTC deaths is correct, LTC has made up less than 20% of the current deaths from Covid that we are seeing.

You have no idea what our LTCs have accomplished since spring in order to minimize the risk for their residents.

We've had almost 2 straight months of day after day of hundreds of new infections and recently even 1,000+ infection days and yet despite all that we've only increased about 400 hospital cases to 580 for the whole province during that time period.

Ontario was at 779 rolling 7 day average for cases on October 15th (a month ago) and is currently at 1408 rolling 7 day average. That's 180% increase in the 7 day rolling average. In that same time frame, Ontario has gone from 253 hospitalized to 479 which is a 190% increase. You don't understand how to interpret data very well do you.

https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data

Crazy to look at that data and see only little over 440 people under the age of 70 have died all this time during the pandemic in Ontario. Go down do 60 yrs old and below and only 149 have died and yet WHO CARES about the data. This is including the fact that there's almost 3 MILLION seniors living in Ontario so even the most vulnerable group of people to the virus aren't dying by the thousands. But hey lets just keep destroying ourselves because we refuse to believe the facts and continue to fearmonger like this is some super virus or something.

Start understanding the data and stop attempting to push a narrative that everyone with the exception of the elderly and vulnerable should go 'back to normal'. Our society doesn't work that way and the only good way to keep them safe is for all of us to be responsible and stop being so damn selfish for a little while longer.

[Fairview4Life]

Our society doesn't work that way and the only good way to keep them safe is for all of us to be responsible and stop being so damn selfish for a little while longer.

Another vaccine reported new data and is looking good! SUCK IT UP FOR THE **** WINTER EVERYONE. That's it. That's all you have to do.

[NBA Sheady]

This is why our leaders and supposed experts are EFFING IDIOTS. Yet again in the past week we had 71 seniors in LTC facilities which is just plain STUPID that our government has allowed it to happen after all we've learned in the past months and we had an entire summer to prepare LTC homes to be ready so that people could be protected quickly and yet they didn't.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/long-term-care-home-deaths-covid-19-second-wave-1.5801804

YET AGAIN our STUPID ASS 'medical experts' and leaders are so worried about the rise in infects even as YET AGAIN LTC is making up the majority of deaths we're seeing recently. We've had almost 2 straight months of day after day of hundreds of new infections and recently even 1,000+ infection days and yet despite all that we've only increased about 400 hospital cases to 580 for the whole province during that time period.

https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data

Crazy to look at that data and see only little over 440 people under the age of 70 have died all this time during the pandemic in Ontario. Go down do 60 yrs old and below and only 149 have died and yet WHO CARES about the data. This is including the fact that there's almost 3 MILLION seniors living in Ontario so even the most vulnerable group of people to the virus aren't dying by the thousands. But hey lets just keep destroying ourselves because we refuse to believe the facts and continue to fearmonger like this is some super virus or something.

It bears repeating.

Anyone focused solely on deaths is not informed. There is a huge list of very serious long term effects of this disease.

There are a slew of pulmonary side effects.
(Such as lung scarring which we've known about for a long time)

There are a slew of cognitive side effects.
(UK study posted in this very thread and the numbers are really bad)

There are a slew of side effects related to red blood cells.
(Healthy young people are having strokes:
https://hospitals.jefferson.edu/news/2020/06/coronavirus-linked-to-stroke-in-otherwise-healthy-young-people.html)

This is no flu and should not be spoken about in those terms. It's not some binary situation where you either die or you're fine.

To date, nobody has conducted a meta-analysis on all the (known) side-effects. But if you were to tally up the odds of getting all the different side effects that number is not low.