2023 Draft Discussion Part III

[BoyzNTheHood]

That trade will forever make Bulls fans sick lol.

Vuc for Franz Wagner, Wendell Carter Jr and probably Grady Dick lol.



Vuc not even an all star caliber player.

That’s quality management. It’s exactly the type of move a guy like Masai would make, which is why we need to give someone other than Webster the keys. He’s the king of talking a lot without saying anything of substance.

Masai has final word. The blame lies with him.

If you’re in charge of decision making and your higher ups keep stepping on your toes it’s not a great work environment. Masai just conveniently dropped off after the chip? I doubt it. He passed duties on to others and they have failed miserably.

[HumbleRen]

That’s quality management. It’s exactly the type of move a guy like Masai would make, which is why we need to give someone other than Webster the keys. He’s the king of talking a lot without saying anything of substance.

Masai has final word. The blame lies with him.

If you’re in charge of decision making and your higher ups keep stepping on your toes it’s not a great work environment. Masai just conveniently dropped off after the chip? I doubt it. He passed duties on to others and they have failed miserably.

Bobby said it himself like 2 weeks ago. Everything still gets run by Masai, he's the head honcho. Everyone else deals with the day to day stuff.

[BoyzNTheHood]

Masai has final word. The blame lies with him.

If you’re in charge of decision making and your higher ups keep stepping on your toes it’s not a great work environment. Masai just conveniently dropped off after the chip? I doubt it. He passed duties on to others and they have failed miserably.

Bobby said it himself like 2 weeks ago. Everything still gets run by Masai, he's the head honcho. Everyone else deals with the day to day stuff.

Yeah, but like I said, Masai wouldn’t be much of a boss if he constantly over ruled their decisions.

[Rapsfan07]

Very, very important that we pass on Dick here.

We don't have a FRP next year and if we serious about building around Scottie, we need a player who can do a little bit more.

Barring extreme luck jumping into the Top 4, we should be considering moving back.

I disagree. If Dick is there he fits perfectly with Scottie and Pascal if we decide to continue forward with this core. Either way, he fits perfectly with Scottie. That would be a dream scenario.

I'm of the belief that we don't need anymore role players. Gradey Dick, for all the hype that he gets around his shooting (which is due btw, he is a phenomenal shooter) doesn't project to me to be more than a Kispert type.

It's really important that we do better than that here in this draft, especially if we're going to stay at #13. We need to be targeting a player who is a three level scorer or has three level scoring potential.

[BoyzNTheHood]

Very, very important that we pass on Dick here.

We don't have a FRP next year and if we serious about building around Scottie, we need a player who can do a little bit more.

Barring extreme luck jumping into the Top 4, we should be considering moving back.

I disagree. If Dick is there he fits perfectly with Scottie and Pascal if we decide to continue forward with this core. Either way, he fits perfectly with Scottie. That would be a dream scenario.

I'm of the belief that we don't need anymore role players. Gradey Dick, for all the hype that he gets around his shooting (which is due btw, he is a phenomenal shooter) doesn't project to me to be more than a Kispert type.

It's really important that we do better than that here in this draft, especially if we're going to stay at #13. We need to be targeting a player who is a three level scorer or has three level scoring potential.

I have to say, I don’t see the Kispert comparison outside of the shooting. With that said, is it safe to assume that you’d prefer the likes of George, Sensabaugh, Howard, and Bufkin over Gradey?

[DG88]

I disagree. If Dick is there he fits perfectly with Scottie and Pascal if we decide to continue forward with this core. Either way, he fits perfectly with Scottie. That would be a dream scenario.

I'm of the belief that we don't need anymore role players. Gradey Dick, for all the hype that he gets around his shooting (which is due btw, he is a phenomenal shooter) doesn't project to me to be more than a Kispert type.

It's really important that we do better than that here in this draft, especially if we're going to stay at #13. We need to be targeting a player who is a three level scorer or has three level scoring potential.

I have to say, I don’t see the Kispert comparison outside of the shooting. With that said, is it safe to assume that you’d prefer the likes of George, Sensabaugh, Howard, and Bufkin over Gradey?

My issue with Gradey Dick is his defense is poor. Yes he has quick hands and gets steals but we saw with Gary Trent Jr sure that's fine but in pressure situations you're going to get targeted. It happened to Gradey in college quite often and usually the Raptors philosophy they want someone who has a good defense base.

[Mehar]

It was beyond idiotic for this franchise to not have "tanked" at the trade deadline given the talent available in the top 5, like many of us in the forum wanted except for a few delusional people (they know who they are). This Raptors team had an identical record to Portland. The difference is Portland was wise to see the righting on wall and are in the 5th Draft Slot now (with a great chance to move up and acquire the top 2 picks). However, Masai and Bobby did not have the same sense and decided to double down on this flawed roster, and traded a First Rounder next year to get Poetl.

Two First Rounders traded (one last year for Bench Warmer Thad Young), in order to get eliminated in a Play-in game. Absolute disgrace of a decision. It will be laughable if Poetl signs with a team like Houston in Free Agency, and this organization has nothing to show for that terrible trade deadline decision. The decision to double down on this flawed roster at the deadline, set this franchise back years, since I do not see any difference maker at the 13th pick. Hopefully I am wrong.

[Brinbe]

Late lottery is a tough spot. Pretty much getting the leftovers and guys who've dropped over the year and hoping they're decent. This is how the Wiz end up with a guy like Johnny Davis...

Ideally we get a guy like Taylor Hendricks, Cason Wallace or Jordan Hawkins but not sure they'll drop to us. The smart teams will snatch those guys up.

Not sure about George, Dick, Nick Smith or JHS. All have question marks and you're playing the lotto hoping he pans out.

Would laugh my ass off if they go take a flier on GG Jackson or the shocker in Cissoko.

But it's good to know we're at 13. Maybe they make a big move and try to trade up for someone?

I'm past all the whining at this point. We know they fd up, nothing we can do to change that now.

All we can do is evaluate this talent best we can ourselves and see if the raptors can still identify good talent and learn from their past mistakes in terms of player evaluation/team building.

Basically, does Masai still have it? Or maybe it's Bobby if he's making a lot of these recent decisions? This draft and off-season will tell us an awful lot about the macro direction of this franchise.

[Lord_Zedd]

Maybe Adam Silver's real punishment to Dallas is having us move into the top 4, and Dallas ends up giving their pick to the Knicks.

[HumbleRen]

I'm of the belief that we don't need anymore role players. Gradey Dick, for all the hype that he gets around his shooting (which is due btw, he is a phenomenal shooter) doesn't project to me to be more than a Kispert type.

It's really important that we do better than that here in this draft, especially if we're going to stay at #13. We need to be targeting a player who is a three level scorer or has three level scoring potential.

I have to say, I don’t see the Kispert comparison outside of the shooting. With that said, is it safe to assume that you’d prefer the likes of George, Sensabaugh, Howard, and Bufkin over Gradey?

My issue with Gradey Dick is defense is poor. Yes he has quick hands and gets steals but we saw with Gary Trent Jr sure that's fine but in pressure situations you're going to get targeted. It happened to Gradey in college quite often and usually the Raptors philosophy they want someone who has a good defense base.

Hopefully we get a new coach or Nurse adapts to his roster rather than being so rigid in his philosophy.

Every single playoff team has players who play starter level minutes who aren’t above average at defence. Why can they get away with it but we can’t ?

I think that’s something Masai and Nurse need to discuss.

[Potential]

Adam Silver owes us after what he said about Masai. The apology wasn't enough. Rig the lottery for us and we're even.

[BoyzNTheHood]

I'm of the belief that we don't need anymore role players. Gradey Dick, for all the hype that he gets around his shooting (which is due btw, he is a phenomenal shooter) doesn't project to me to be more than a Kispert type.

It's really important that we do better than that here in this draft, especially if we're going to stay at #13. We need to be targeting a player who is a three level scorer or has three level scoring potential.

I have to say, I don’t see the Kispert comparison outside of the shooting. With that said, is it safe to assume that you’d prefer the likes of George, Sensabaugh, Howard, and Bufkin over Gradey?

My issue with Gradey Dick is defense is poor. Yes he has quick hands and gets steals but we saw with Gary Trent Jr sure that's fine but in pressure situations you're going to get targeted. It happened to Gradey in college quite often and usually the Raptors philosophy they want someone who has a good defense base.

I also wouldn’t say Gradey is a poor defender, although that may change in the NBA. I think he’s a VanVleet style defender who was always more of a positional guy, but got the job done. This team needs guys with elite offensive attributes. We literally have no one with anything like that. Our guys are usually Swiss Army knives. GTJ is supposed to be a shooter but is he really? Our best shooter is OG who developed himself. We can’t keep moving forward with a bunch of guys who do a lot of things well but nothing great. Development only goes so far. Look at guys like Demar and Pascal, they were both here for years and can’t develop a long range jump shot.

[grant101]

I have to say, I don’t see the Kispert comparison outside of the shooting. With that said, is it safe to assume that you’d prefer the likes of George, Sensabaugh, Howard, and Bufkin over Gradey?

My issue with Gradey Dick is defense is poor. Yes he has quick hands and gets steals but we saw with Gary Trent Jr sure that's fine but in pressure situations you're going to get targeted. It happened to Gradey in college quite often and usually the Raptors philosophy they want someone who has a good defense base.

Hopefully we get a new coach or Nurse adapts to his roster rather than being so rigid in his philosophy.

Every single playoff team has players who play starter level minutes who aren’t above average at defence. Why can they get away with it but we can’t ?

I think that’s something Masai and Nurse need to discuss.

We need a coach that will let the bench play through mistakes and develop the confidence that comes with knowing when you'll be playing.

Also, Gradey's defence isn't any worse than a lot of the other prospects talked about here, especially considering he just finished his freshman season. He also has height and athleticism over someone like GTJ. He'll be just fine. What he does have is tremendous shooting ability and a demonstrated ability to play without the ball in his hands. With time and opportunity, who knows what he can do if given the chance to create.

I still have him behind a few players in our range, but Gradey would be a very welcome addition to this team

[ItsDanger]

Lot of possibilities in this position. Really need roster clarity for 23/24 to speculate who we should target here.

[ATLTimekeeper]

The only concerns you have with Cissoko are shooting but then you see he went on a tear for one month should ~5 3PA on ~50% shooting. He has no weaknesses other than consistency but he's only 18.

His rebounding rate was 4.9, which is beyond awful for someone that big. That's definitely a weakness.

Rebounding is extremely overrated as a guard. It does not concern me at all when it comes to a “weakness”.

I can't find any good NBA guards that had a rebounding rate under 5 at the NCAA level, but maybe you could single out a few to change my mind. While we can give Cissoko credit that he's playing against men and his numbers reflect that, he wasn't a full-time 'guard' with the Ignite and he's big enough that a few balls should have landed in his lap by accident. For a prospect, that's a concern.

Anyway, I'd love to hear why you think it's extremely overrated. If a guard can rebound that's an obvious plus for me because they can initiate the break right away.

[BoyzNTheHood]

Coming out of this draft with 2 shooters like Gradey, Hawkins, Howard, or Sensabaugh would be a crazy change of fortunes. Defense be damned. Let’s run it up to 125 a game like the old ABA

[Lord_Zedd]

Late lottery is a tough spot. Pretty much getting the leftovers and guys who've dropped over the year and hoping they're decent. This is how the Wiz end up with a guy like Johnny Davis...

Ideally we get a guy like Taylor Hendricks, Cason Wallace or Jordan Hawkins but not sure they'll drop to us. The smart teams will snatch those guys up.

Not sure about George, Dick, Nick Smith or JHS. All have question marks and you're playing the lotto hoping he pans out.

Would laugh my ass off if they go take a flier on GG Jackson or the shocker in Cissoko.

But it's good to know we're at 13. Maybe they make a big move and try to trade up for someone?

I'm past all the whining at this point. We know they fd up, nothing we can do to change that now.

All we can do is evaluate this talent best we can ourselves and see if the raptors can still identify good talent and learn from their past mistakes in terms of player evaluation/team building.

Basically, does Masai still have it? Or maybe it's Bobby if he's making a lot of these recent decisions? This draft and off-season will tell us an awful lot about the macro direction of this franchise.

I wouldn't be opposed trading up. Though I'm not sure if there's a sizeable difference of talent after the top 4-5, to where we are.

As for trading down...... I'd consider making a trade with Utah's 16th and 28th pick for our 13th. But that's Danny Ainge we'll be dealing with.

Anything lower like trading down for 2x Brooklyn/Indiana's picks in the 20s is what got us into this mess in the first place. Being a victim of our own success in relying too much with late 1sts/2nd round picks, which amounted to nothing.

[Stromile12]

Take a gamble, draft the player with the highest ceiling, we desperately need the talent, it ain't coming in free agency.

[DG88]

I have to say, I don’t see the Kispert comparison outside of the shooting. With that said, is it safe to assume that you’d prefer the likes of George, Sensabaugh, Howard, and Bufkin over Gradey?

My issue with Gradey Dick is defense is poor. Yes he has quick hands and gets steals but we saw with Gary Trent Jr sure that's fine but in pressure situations you're going to get targeted. It happened to Gradey in college quite often and usually the Raptors philosophy they want someone who has a good defense base.

Hopefully we get a new coach or Nurse adapts to his roster rather than being so rigid in his philosophy.

Every single playoff team has players who play starter level minutes who aren’t above average at defence. Why can they get away with it but we can’t ?

I think that’s something Masai and Nurse need to discuss.

I think it's more of a team philosophy than Nick's. What I'm looking for at the end of the lottery is someone who can give me both offense and defense.

[grant101]

Take a gamble, draft the player with the highest ceiling, we desperately need the talent, it ain't coming in free agency.

This is why I've been keen on Coulibaly.

If you really want to go home run swinging though, GG Jackson fits the bill. Rare to find athletes at that age with that skill set. I also think some of his worst tendencies can be attributed to age and a poor, unstructured environment.

If he were to transfer to a good program like Houston next year, he'd be in contention for #1 overall.