Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 8

[Scase]

He would easily be averaging a triple double if we had even just some more competent players on the roster.

I hate this illogical BS cause I’ve seen this statement by so many homers over the years. I remember Laker fans constantly whining about Smush Parker and how Kobe would be averaging so many more assists, like there weren’t any trash players in the rest of the league.

Whether it was Bosh, Bargani or Kobe, Lebron, pretty much none of the players showed increased assist numbers after getting more competent players on the roster. Probably because if they had better teammates, the ball wouldn’t be in their hands as much and their teammates would consist of good playmakers as well.

In fact, RJ went from a better team to a worse one and saw his assist numbers drastically increase.

Hate it all you want, it doesn't change what people with eyes watching the actual games see. Countless wide open shots bricked because our team has no shooting, and dudes fumbling the most basic of passes has nothing to do with what you are talking about.

But you're right, it's nothing to do with the roster, definitely nothing to do with us being the 7th worst 3p shooting team or 5th worst at turning over the ball. Im sure being in the bottom 3rd of the NBA for those 2 metrics is just something that every team in the league deals with.

[RoteSchroder]

He would easily be averaging a triple double if we had even just some more competent players on the roster.

I hate this illogical BS cause I’ve seen this statement by so many homers over the years. I remember Laker fans constantly whining about Smush Parker and how Kobe would be averaging so many more assists, like there weren’t any trash players in the rest of the league.

Whether it was Bosh, Bargani or Kobe, Lebron, pretty much none of the players showed increased assist numbers after getting more competent players on the roster. Probably because if they had better teammates, the ball wouldn’t be in their hands as much and their teammates would consist of good playmakers as well.

In fact, RJ went from a better team to a worse one and saw his assist numbers drastically increase.

Hate it all you want, it doesn't change what people with eyes watching the actual games see. Countless wide open shots bricked because our team has no shooting, and dudes fumbling the most basic of passes has nothing to do with what you are talking about.

But you're right, it's nothing to do with the roster, definitely nothing to do with us being the 7th worst 3p shooting team or 5th worst at turning over the ball. Im sure being in the bottom 3rd of the NBA for those 2 metrics is just something that every team in the league deals with.

were you just unable to read basic logic? Getting more competent players means he may get less usage and less on-ball reps.

By your logic, RJ would also get more assist numbers if he had better teammates, since they share the same teammates that fumble the ball with poor 3p shooting.

Listen, I don't want to go back and forth for 3 threads just because you can't process basic logic, like the last time when you tried to argue that Poeltl somehow magically played 10 games while being out with injury. You still can't even admit that the regular season isn't 93 games long where there are 10 magical games they play in Wizardland.

[mdenny]

He would easily be averaging a triple double if we had even just some more competent players on the roster.

I hate this illogical BS cause I’ve seen this statement by so many homers over the years. I remember Laker fans constantly whining about Smush Parker and how Kobe would be averaging so many more assists, like there weren’t any trash players in the rest of the league.

Whether it was Bosh, Bargani or Kobe, Lebron, pretty much none of the players showed increased assist numbers after getting more competent players on the roster. Probably because if they had better teammates, the ball wouldn’t be in their hands as much and their teammates would consist of good playmakers as well.

In fact, RJ went from a better team to a worse one and saw his assist numbers drastically increase.

Hate it all you want, it doesn't change what people with eyes watching the actual games see. Countless wide open shots bricked because our team has no shooting, and dudes fumbling the most basic of passes has nothing to do with what you are talking about.

But you're right, it's nothing to do with the roster, definitely nothing to do with us being the 7th worst 3p shooting team or 5th worst at turning over the ball. Im sure being in the bottom 3rd of the NBA for those 2 metrics is just something that every team in the league deals with.

And which raptor averages the most turnovers per game?

The scotty brigade is such a transparent, predictable bunch. Either scotty puts up big stats and they pretend that this is a triumph over imaginary haters. Or scotty doesn't put up good stats and they blame his teammates or coach.

[HangTime]

I hate this illogical BS cause I’ve seen this statement by so many homers over the years. I remember Laker fans constantly whining about Smush Parker and how Kobe would be averaging so many more assists, like there weren’t any trash players in the rest of the league.

Whether it was Bosh, Bargani or Kobe, Lebron, pretty much none of the players showed increased assist numbers after getting more competent players on the roster. Probably because if they had better teammates, the ball wouldn’t be in their hands as much and their teammates would consist of good playmakers as well.

In fact, RJ went from a better team to a worse one and saw his assist numbers drastically increase.

Hate it all you want, it doesn't change what people with eyes watching the actual games see. Countless wide open shots bricked because our team has no shooting, and dudes fumbling the most basic of passes has nothing to do with what you are talking about.

But you're right, it's nothing to do with the roster, definitely nothing to do with us being the 7th worst 3p shooting team or 5th worst at turning over the ball. Im sure being in the bottom 3rd of the NBA for those 2 metrics is just something that every team in the league deals with.

And which raptor averages the most turnovers per game?

The scotty brigade is such a transparent, predictable bunch. Either scotty puts up big stats and they pretend that this is a triumph over imaginary haters. Or scotty doesn't put up good stats and they blame his teammates or coach.

The limited spacing, getting crowded by multiple people, Which is Darko cranking up the difficultly level. It's all by design.

When Quickley comes back, the spacing for scoring may seem like a ocean

[Thaddy]

Adding a two way scorer that can also rebound like Bailey would make Barnes look even better. It's hard to find a scorer like him who's also forward sized. There's another risk of transitioning to the NBA and producing. It's either Bailey or Harper as the best fits next to Barnes in this draft.

[RoteSchroder]

Hate it all you want, it doesn't change what people with eyes watching the actual games see. Countless wide open shots bricked because our team has no shooting, and dudes fumbling the most basic of passes has nothing to do with what you are talking about.

But you're right, it's nothing to do with the roster, definitely nothing to do with us being the 7th worst 3p shooting team or 5th worst at turning over the ball. Im sure being in the bottom 3rd of the NBA for those 2 metrics is just something that every team in the league deals with.

And which raptor averages the most turnovers per game?

The scotty brigade is such a transparent, predictable bunch. Either scotty puts up big stats and they pretend that this is a triumph over imaginary haters. Or scotty doesn't put up good stats and they blame his teammates or coach.

The limited spacing, getting crowded by multiple people, Which is Darko cranking up the difficultly level. It's all by design.

When Quickley comes back, the spacing for scoring may seem like a ocean

Scottie's definitely on the right track, but he does need to tighten up his handles.

I just don't like the "Bargnani excuses" being used on Scottie. It's unnecessary considering Barnes is doing well as is.

[mdenny]

And which raptor averages the most turnovers per game?

The scotty brigade is such a transparent, predictable bunch. Either scotty puts up big stats and they pretend that this is a triumph over imaginary haters. Or scotty doesn't put up good stats and they blame his teammates or coach.

The limited spacing, getting crowded by multiple people, Which is Darko cranking up the difficultly level. It's all by design.

When Quickley comes back, the spacing for scoring may seem like a ocean

Scottie's definitely on the right track, but he does need to tighten up his handles.

I just don't like the "Bargnani excuses" being used on Scottie. It's unnecessary considering Barnes is doing well as is.

Yes lol. "Bargnani excuses" is the appropriate term. Same thing happened with him. It was always everyone else's fault that he wasn't meeting expectations. Plus ppl did the same with Valenciunas to a lesser degree. They wanted him to take more of Patterson's minutes and couldn't grasp that Casey needed to play Patterson during crunchtime because Jonas was always getting pick and rolled to death in the final minutes.

The weird thing is that scptty has been infinitely better than either of those guys and ppl STILL do it. I think in some cases it's a fantasy league thing or an obsession with his individual accolades like becoming all-nba or whatever.

I mean....how good does scotty need to perform until his obsessed fans stop claiming he is being held back bu teammates? Mvp maybe?

[Los_29]

He would easily be averaging a triple double if we had even just some more competent players on the roster.

I hate this illogical BS cause I’ve seen this statement by so many homers over the years. I remember Laker fans constantly whining about Smush Parker and how Kobe would be averaging so many more assists, like there weren’t any trash players in the rest of the league.

Whether it was Bosh, Bargani or Kobe, Lebron, pretty much none of the players showed increased assist numbers after getting more competent players on the roster. Probably because if they had better teammates, the ball wouldn’t be in their hands as much and their teammates would consist of good playmakers as well.

In fact, RJ went from a better team to a worse one and saw his assist numbers drastically increase.

Exactly. It just comes down to blatant ignorance and homerism (which is actually odd because it’s just for Scottie).

I wonder if Scase knows how many players have averaged a triple double. Two players in NBA history? The fact he thinks Scottie would average one is absolutely absurd.

[HiJiNX]

The reality is Barnes needs to get better at:

-scoring at all three levels
-taking care of the ball (which includes not rifling passes to teammates two feet away or throwing it to guys in traffic/under the rim)
-knowing when to shoot and when to pass since he sometimes passes in shooting situations
-managing a game, which includes knowing when he has to be a scorer and not a distributor

He’s taken some great strides but there’s still a lot to work on. Most of these things will come with more reps on the court, but the scoring will require a couple more offseasons of serious work.

[MiamiSPX]

The reality is Barnes needs to get better at:

-scoring at all three levels
-taking care of the ball (which includes not rifling passes to teammates two feet away or throwing it to guys in traffic/under the rim)
-knowing when to shoot and when to pass since he sometimes passes in shooting situations
-managing a game, which includes knowing when he has to be a scorer and not a distributor

He’s taken some great strides but there’s still a lot to work on. Most of these things will come with more reps on the court, but the scoring will require a couple more offseasons of serious work.

I'm generally really pleased with how he's looked this season. I also think his defensive presence is vastly underrated. But man, his situational awareness can be frustrating. He seems to always err on the side of what he thinks is "the right basketball play". I get that Davion (as an example) may be wide open for a 3, but you are stuck 6 with 2 minutes to go. He's wide open for a reason and it's your f'n team.....take charge.

[manjusaka]

The reality is Barnes needs to get better at:

-scoring at all three levels
-taking care of the ball (which includes not rifling passes to teammates two feet away or throwing it to guys in traffic/under the rim)
-knowing when to shoot and when to pass since he sometimes passes in shooting situations
-managing a game, which includes knowing when he has to be a scorer and not a distributor

He’s taken some great strides but there’s still a lot to work on. Most of these things will come with more reps on the court, but the scoring will require a couple more offseasons of serious work.

I think he wants to be a point guard from the get go but didn’t have much opportunity. He actually go to the college which allows him to play pg even it required him coming off the bench. In high school and national team he was blocked by Cade. Reading the defence and controlling the game is an area he needs the game action for the development.

[Jerry Lucas]

He would easily be averaging a triple double if we had even just some more competent players on the roster.

I hate this illogical BS cause I’ve seen this statement by so many homers over the years. I remember Laker fans constantly whining about Smush Parker and how Kobe would be averaging so many more assists, like there weren’t any trash players in the rest of the league.

Whether it was Bosh, Bargani or Kobe, Lebron, pretty much none of the players showed increased assist numbers after getting more competent players on the roster. Probably because if they had better teammates, the ball wouldn’t be in their hands as much and their teammates would consist of good playmakers as well.

In fact, RJ went from a better team to a worse one and saw his assist numbers drastically increase.

Exactly. It just comes down to blatant ignorance and homerism (which is actually odd because it’s just for Scottie).

I wonder if Scase knows how many players have averaged a triple double. Two players in NBA history? The fact he thinks Scottie would average one is absolutely absurd.

To be fair, he's averaging 22/9/9 as the starting PG in 9 games since returning from his eye injury, pretty close. He seems to be showing further growth in his game after shaking off the rust of returning from the injury that ended his 2023-24 season, on top of dealing with an eye injury early this season.

[Scase]

I hate this illogical BS cause I’ve seen this statement by so many homers over the years. I remember Laker fans constantly whining about Smush Parker and how Kobe would be averaging so many more assists, like there weren’t any trash players in the rest of the league.

Whether it was Bosh, Bargani or Kobe, Lebron, pretty much none of the players showed increased assist numbers after getting more competent players on the roster. Probably because if they had better teammates, the ball wouldn’t be in their hands as much and their teammates would consist of good playmakers as well.

In fact, RJ went from a better team to a worse one and saw his assist numbers drastically increase.

Hate it all you want, it doesn't change what people with eyes watching the actual games see. Countless wide open shots bricked because our team has no shooting, and dudes fumbling the most basic of passes has nothing to do with what you are talking about.

But you're right, it's nothing to do with the roster, definitely nothing to do with us being the 7th worst 3p shooting team or 5th worst at turning over the ball. Im sure being in the bottom 3rd of the NBA for those 2 metrics is just something that every team in the league deals with.

were you just unable to read basic logic? Getting more competent players means he may get less usage and less on-ball reps.

By your logic, RJ would also get more assist numbers if he had better teammates, since they share the same teammates that fumble the ball with poor 3p shooting.

Listen, I don't want to go back and forth for 3 threads just because you can't process basic logic, like the last time when you tried to argue that Poeltl somehow magically played 10 games while being out with injury. You still can't even admit that the regular season isn't 93 games long where there are 10 magical games they play in Wizardland.

Brilliant, coming off as this dismissive and still not understanding the basic concept.

Having better players doesn't mean the primary ballhandler loses usage, he continues to facilitate as he does, you just replace people who can't hit a shot with those who can.

We're not talking about adding a prime #1 player here, we're talking about players who can shoot an open shot that was going to be shot regardless of it being made or missed. If player A takes 10 shots and makes 20% of them, and you replace him with player B who takes 10 shots and makes 40% of them, usage doesn't change.


Dunning Kruger on full display here, don't bother to respond unless you can manage it without being outright insulting.

[HiJiNX]

The reality is Barnes needs to get better at:

-scoring at all three levels
-taking care of the ball (which includes not rifling passes to teammates two feet away or throwing it to guys in traffic/under the rim)
-knowing when to shoot and when to pass since he sometimes passes in shooting situations
-managing a game, which includes knowing when he has to be a scorer and not a distributor

He’s taken some great strides but there’s still a lot to work on. Most of these things will come with more reps on the court, but the scoring will require a couple more offseasons of serious work.

I'm generally really pleased with how he's looked this season. I also think his defensive presence is vastly underrated. But man, his situational awareness can be frustrating. He seems to always err on the side of what he thinks is "the right basketball play". I get that Davion (as an example) may be wide open for a 3, but you are stuck 6 with 2 minutes to go. He's wide open for a reason and it's your f'n team.....take charge.

Fully agree. I love how he’s played this season. But he definitely needs to understand that you can feed Davion that ball when it’s not crunch time but when it’s crunch time and you’re the best player on the court then you gotta take over.

[Scase]

I hate this illogical BS cause I’ve seen this statement by so many homers over the years. I remember Laker fans constantly whining about Smush Parker and how Kobe would be averaging so many more assists, like there weren’t any trash players in the rest of the league.

Whether it was Bosh, Bargani or Kobe, Lebron, pretty much none of the players showed increased assist numbers after getting more competent players on the roster. Probably because if they had better teammates, the ball wouldn’t be in their hands as much and their teammates would consist of good playmakers as well.

In fact, RJ went from a better team to a worse one and saw his assist numbers drastically increase.

Exactly. It just comes down to blatant ignorance and homerism (which is actually odd because it’s just for Scottie).

I wonder if Scase knows how many players have averaged a triple double. Two players in NBA history? The fact he thinks Scottie would average one is absolutely absurd.

To be fair, he's averaging 22/9/9 as the starting PG in 9 games since returning from his eye injury, pretty close. He seems to be showing further growth in his game after shaking off the rust of returning from the injury that ended his 2023-24 season, on top of dealing with an eye injury early this season.

Yeah, I have no idea how this is such a wild take, he's literally off by a rebound and an assist. Not to mention I'm not suggesting he is going to average it for the entire year, but rather what we've been seeing thus far. Even taking into account the entire YTD, he's putting up 21/9/8, must be homerism.

I'm sure everyone said the same thing when Russ was about to do it, and then did it multiple times. Same way I'm sure it would be impossible for a 7ft player to be averaging a trip dub either, oh what's that? There's one right now averaging 32/13/10?

Sure is a good thing it's only been done twice before.

[ValvPiti]

Will Scottie continue to be playing the point when IQ comes back? From my understanding IQ is more of a combo guard, so you could just roll Barnes, IQ, Dick, Barrett and Poetl out since GD also has the length to man the 3? Whats the plan? Just traded Holmgren for Barnes in a dynasty league without realizing he has been moved to the point... anyways, I gotta make the obvious pickup of Dick as well now and turn into an avid Raptor-watcher.

[ArthurVandelay]

The reality is Barnes needs to get better at:

-scoring at all three levels
-taking care of the ball (which includes not rifling passes to teammates two feet away or throwing it to guys in traffic/under the rim)
-knowing when to shoot and when to pass since he sometimes passes in shooting situations
-managing a game, which includes knowing when he has to be a scorer and not a distributor

He’s taken some great strides but there’s still a lot to work on. Most of these things will come with more reps on the court, but the scoring will require a couple more offseasons of serious work.

I'm generally really pleased with how he's looked this season. I also think his defensive presence is vastly underrated. But man, his situational awareness can be frustrating. He seems to always err on the side of what he thinks is "the right basketball play". I get that Davion (as an example) may be wide open for a 3, but you are stuck 6 with 2 minutes to go. He's wide open for a reason and it's your f'n team.....take charge.

Honestly I'd rather see him continue to make the right play. Eventually IQ will be back and he'll be sticking that shot more often than not.

[Scase]

The reality is Barnes needs to get better at:

-scoring at all three levels
-taking care of the ball (which includes not rifling passes to teammates two feet away or throwing it to guys in traffic/under the rim)
-knowing when to shoot and when to pass since he sometimes passes in shooting situations
-managing a game, which includes knowing when he has to be a scorer and not a distributor

He’s taken some great strides but there’s still a lot to work on. Most of these things will come with more reps on the court, but the scoring will require a couple more offseasons of serious work.

I'm generally really pleased with how he's looked this season. I also think his defensive presence is vastly underrated. But man, his situational awareness can be frustrating. He seems to always err on the side of what he thinks is "the right basketball play". I get that Davion (as an example) may be wide open for a 3, but you are stuck 6 with 2 minutes to go. He's wide open for a reason and it's your f'n team.....take charge.

Honestly I'd rather see him continue to make the right play. Eventually IQ will be back and he'll be sticking that shot more often than not.

Yeah I think this becomes less of a concern once we have some more reliable options on the floor. Making the right play is what he should be doing, be it miss or make. We're (hopefully) not always going to have dog **** shooters on the team, so the muscle memory of say kicking it out to the open man in the corner is what he should have ingrained in his head. Replace Davion with GD/RJ/IQ and those shots have a better chance of going in.

This is a development season, so I don't care if the right move to win is for him to bully into the post and score, because the right move to win when we aren't a bad team, will usually be kick it out to the open guy. If we lose the game, we lose the game, wins don't matter this year.

Rosters are "easy" to change, habits aren't.

[Vampirate]

I hate stuff like this, the entire side Barnes is on has no one to pass to for a three point shot.

3 Raptors are literally on 1 side of the court and Yak is just there for a push shot up close.

There should be a threat to shoot on both sides of the court with a pass.

With stuff like that, Barnes really needs to operate in deep mid range to put any type of stress on the defense.

[Vampirate]

Watch on YouTube

At 2:38, I love that, it wasn't a smooth finish imo, but we needs way more of that type of move from him.

He basically needs to pop that type of move at any time, and much more frequent.

At 3:30 I like the idea, but the execution needs work, nice 3 but Luka barely moved. I'd like to see a pull up middy there.

All in all, I wasn't really impressed too much with the assists I saw for the most part. A lot just seemed like it was hand offs to Yak.