2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 7

[canada_dry]

Givony says we have the 9th pick in an 8 person draft...i don't think thats quite true...it flatens out way before 9th, from what ive seen.

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[Yallbecrazy]

He is my favorite at 9 but I think the consensus is against it because he is a bit older and a non-traditional lotto guy.

I just think you don't ever see guys with 7"2 wingspan and 250 lbs move the way he does.

He levelled up after playing on a crappy Yale team and became a centrepiece of a Big10 offense.

His feet are are good enough to switch.

His passing is next level if he scales back usage.

He is very articulate in discussing plays and he seems wired to play good basketball.

He is willing to step up as a star. Problem is the shooting is only flashes for now, so he has to develop that.

I think his defense is underrated, but still projects to be below average at the NBA level. He is a career 64.6% ft shooter who shot under 60% last season. Fairly high turnover rate too so I'm not sold on his offense especially as an upper classman.

I mean guys like Derik Queen get a pass and Wolf exceeded him in measurements and defensive metrics.

For sure there are question marks, but he passes the eye test for me. There is outlier skills and Danny Wolf even goes beyond that with his handle and pick and roll capability. It's a bit like Hedo but in a near 7fter body. At worst you are getting a young Kelly Olynyk which worked well in a bench role for Toronto, and I think Wolf is bigger and has more potential. They really need to see him in a competitive workout setting.

The only C I would rate higher is Sorber but so hard to commit on a guy who had a major injury.

I don't give Queen a pass, but Queen projects as a better offensive player in my opinion.
I like Condon more than both who is the best passing big in the draft despite only playing basketball for 5 years, and has the added bonus of being a really good defender.

Condon doesn't have near the scoring ability, but he has shown flashes. He also really needs to improve his free throws just like Wolf.

[PoundTown]

I think his defense is underrated, but still projects to be below average at the NBA level. He is a career 64.6% ft shooter who shot under 60% last season. Fairly high turnover rate too so I'm not sold on his offense especially as an upper classman.

I mean guys like Derik Queen get a pass and Wolf exceeded him in measurements and defensive metrics.

For sure there are question marks, but he passes the eye test for me. There is outlier skills and Danny Wolf even goes beyond that with his handle and pick and roll capability. It's a bit like Hedo but in a near 7fter body. At worst you are getting a young Kelly Olynyk which worked well in a bench role for Toronto, and I think Wolf is bigger and has more potential. They really need to see him in a competitive workout setting.

The only C I would rate higher is Sorber but so hard to commit on a guy who had a major injury.

I don't give Queen a pass, but Queen projects as a better offensive player in my opinion.
I like Condon more than both who is the best passing big in the draft despite only playing basketball for 5 years, and has the added bonus of being a really good defender.

Condon doesn't have near the scoring ability, but he has shown flashes. He also really needs to improve his free throws just like Wolf.

Condon might outperform my expectations but he’s really lacking from a toughness standpoint. He’s soft and doesn’t like contact. Saying that, I say the same thing about sarr, but acknowledge that sarr is a really good talent and that’s really the only bad thing about his game I could say. If sarr toughens up he will be great, and If he doesn’t, he will still probably be very good but that part of his game will always bug me. Condon, I’m not quite sure has same level of ability where he can still be a plus player and soft at the same time.

[raptor jesus]

Givony says we have the 9th pick in an 8 person draft...i don't think thats quite true...it flatens out way before 9th, from what ive seen.

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Yeah that struck me as odd as well. Imo picks like 3-12 is pick your poison w/ no definitive tiers or dropoffs. Bailey or Edgecombe seem to be gaining steam as picks 3/4 but those guys have big question marks on their games, just like everybody else after them. FWIW, 2016 was heralded as an 8 player draft as well, and I remember ppl being upset because Marqueese Chriss was just out of the Raps' grasp at 9. And of course, the Raps, famously, had the draft haul that laid the groundwork for the title.

[Tripod]

Givony says we have the 9th pick in an 8 person draft...i don't think thats quite true...it flatens out way before 9th, from what ive seen.

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Giving has Fleming going at #27.

Take his takes with a grain of salt

[Yallbecrazy]

I mean guys like Derik Queen get a pass and Wolf exceeded him in measurements and defensive metrics.

For sure there are question marks, but he passes the eye test for me. There is outlier skills and Danny Wolf even goes beyond that with his handle and pick and roll capability. It's a bit like Hedo but in a near 7fter body. At worst you are getting a young Kelly Olynyk which worked well in a bench role for Toronto, and I think Wolf is bigger and has more potential. They really need to see him in a competitive workout setting.

The only C I would rate higher is Sorber but so hard to commit on a guy who had a major injury.

I don't give Queen a pass, but Queen projects as a better offensive player in my opinion.
I like Condon more than both who is the best passing big in the draft despite only playing basketball for 5 years, and has the added bonus of being a really good defender.

Condon doesn't have near the scoring ability, but he has shown flashes. He also really needs to improve his free throws just like Wolf.

Condon might outperform my expectations but he’s really lacking from a toughness standpoint. He’s soft and doesn’t like contact. Saying that, I say the same thing about sarr, but acknowledge that sarr is a really good talent and that’s really the only bad thing about his game I could say. If sarr toughens up he will be great, and If he doesn’t, he will still probably be very good but that part of his game will always bug me. Condon, I’m not quite sure has same level of ability where he can still be a plus player and soft at the same time.

??? Condon plays super tough. Maybe you mean aggressive on the offensive side? He played more passively during the tourney on offense as he was injured and struggling with his shot.

He's an Aussie rules football guy whose father was apparently an all time great, but he competes defensively and is one of the toughest players in all of college basketball in my opinion and played through a sprained ankle the whole tournament.

[Grew]

Pre lotto it seemed like this board had a top 8.
Cooper
Harper
Bailey
Vj
Fears
Queen
Tre
Mal

It's only since we have gotten 9th that people are really pushing the Kon narrative. Denmin and Jak had completely fallen out of favour here.

The NBA teams probably see it different, and it will probably shake out different. However there has been alot of cope with this board now pretending we never had that top 8 in our collective mind.

I'm operating as if those 8 will be off the board. Hopefully we have a shot at one or some of them, but it is toooo raptors for those 8 to go before our pick.

Kon and Jak are probably BPA, especially just offensively. Are they so much better It's worth forcing trades? Displacing our last two first round picks? Are we going to commit to Kon or Jak over Gradey or Jakobe? With 3 of those guys on the roster someone is getting buried and losing value. Jak would make more sense than Kon on the roster, barely.

The more I look at Essengue the less I like him. Demin might be even less ready to contribute.

Carter Bryant or Fleming seem to make the most sense.

[canada_dry]

Is there?

It’s funny how it just so happens to be right before our pick when the drop off begins.

From what I’ve read, it’s the first I’ve heard about there being a drop off after 8. Not a great draft for elite talent but quite a few good prospects.

Just my opinon.

Flagg
Harper
Bailey
Edgecome
Fears
Johnson
Maluach
Knueppel

Are the top 8 guys then there is a drop off at #9.

For me jaku is easily in that list.

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[Clutch0z24]

I know alot of people say hes "GTJR" or whatever....I think he has potential to be a legit playmaker one day....Guy you can give the ball and he can get you buckets or set guys up...Ofc it would take development....But he already has elite shot making ability.....

Tre would be the one guy id give up a few assets to try and move up in this draft to get... if a team in that 5th/6th range wanna make a move...And Tre is still on the board id make the call and see what we could do to swap picks.

I’d argue anyone that compares him to GTJ is an idiot to put nicely. Johnson and Knoeppel have been mentioned as best shooters in the draft and like you said Johnson can also self create. He’s a legit 6’6 too so we’re not talking Cam Thomas here.

He’d be the perfect guy to put next to an offensive hub because he can play off ball, but also can create his own shot as well.

He's compared to GTJ because of the lack of defense and rebounding. He's a playmaker at least so he has that going for him, but he also doesn't get to the rim just like GTJ.

I think a taller Anfernee Simons is a good comparison.

Yeah you can compare any player that is a shot creator to GTJR if that were the case though....Or Tre can be the next Devin Booker...Who really Knows All i do know is he is an elite 3 point shooter and one of the best if not the best shot creators in this class...

Our team is good enough defensivly....We are prolly close to dead last in offense....That tells me we need to add more offense to the team....Someone that can get buckets....Every team needs it and we lack it really bad.....Tre Johnson/Kon Kneuppel/Fears/Jak/Queen are the 5 outside of the top 4 that could come in and give us a bucket getter....Tre Johnson/Kon both prolly would be the best bucket getters/3pt shooters if we could some how grab one it would prolly be for the best for the team overall...

OKC are well balanced they have their shot maker/takers in SGA/Williams 3+D guys like Alex/Lu And Dynamic Big in Chet.....Sure we added Ingram but hes injury prone....Gradey will not be the answer either....RJ Is a Slasher more than a bucket getter....I think if we add another shot maker our team is much more balanced overall....Adding another Defensive first guy with limited offense will not really fix our issues...

[canada_dry]

Read on Twitter

I wish this guy would fall to us.

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[JCP11]

I'm starting to lean towards drafting CMB. After reading a lot of comments about how bad his shot is, that he's similar to Mogbo and his bad shooting performance at the combine I didn't even want to look at his game but man I'm glad I didn't do that. He's a unique player with size, smarts, physicality, he's a dawg, can defend pretty much anyone, process the game game at a high level, great passer, I mean he has a lot going for him.

...and then there's his shot. I have to agree it's not great but it's not broken like Draymond and he's been willing to let it go this year although only made 9. If the shot ever gets there, this is the type of player you want in the playoffs when everything gets way more physical. There's a chance everyone we like gets picked before 9 and he's the one guy left with more upside. If they believe the shot can get better I hope they don't overthink it and just draft him.

[Basketball_Jones]

I liked Kon but he’s a bit smaller than ideal. Perhaps he’s KMiddle/Hield like but I don’t find him all that different from many other small/average sized shooting guards in the league. I’d like to take a swing at someone like Mal/Rasheer/Bryant/Noah and hope they live up to their potential.

[canada_dry]

I liked Kon but he’s a bit smaller than ideal. Perhaps he’s KMiddle/Hield like but I don’t find him all that different from many other small/average sized shooting guards in the league. I’d like to take a swing at someone like Mal/Rasheer/Bryant/Noah and hope they live up to their potential.

Nah. If he's there at 9th you take him and run.

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[BoyzNTheHood]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=iDergfyDJveIq9pY2qCCBQ

[mtcan]

I'm starting to lean towards drafting CMB. After reading a lot of comments about how bad his shot is, that he's similar to Mogbo and his bad shooting performance at the combine I didn't even want to look at his game but man I'm glad I didn't do that. He's a unique player with size, smarts, physicality, he's a dawg, can defend pretty much anyone, process the game game at a high level, great passer, I mean he has a lot going for him.

...and then there's his shot. I have to agree it's not great but it's not broken like Draymond and he's been willing to let it go this year although only made 9. If the shot ever gets there, this is the type of player you want in the playoffs when everything gets way more physical. There's a chance everyone we like gets picked before 9 and he's the one guy left with more upside. If they believe the shot can get better I hope they don't overthink it and just draft him.

I think for a wing...shooting is a must-have. Heck...even a big man that can or could develop a 3 pointer is also vital. I think CMB goes in the early teens. Bryant over CMB if we are talking about this archetype of player.

[Badonkadonk]

Alright, I've gone down the draft-twitter rabbit hole and watched a bunch of big boards and mocks. My favourite source outside of the Toronto market is Keandre at Hoop Intellect, he's a regular guest on Game Theory with Vecenie, which is also a great watch (Vecenie and his boy just did a Q&A this afternoon).

Opinions will probably evolve, as they do every year, but as of right now my random observations:

- I think the draft flattens after top 2; every single potential lottery guy after that comes with non-trivial risk that affects their ceiling
- I don't think he falls to 9th but I think Maluach is a no-brainer if he does; anything on O is bonus, if he hits his defensive potential he'll be a rarity
- I'm favouring the big / versatile wing archetype given this year's draft class (not sold on the guards who come with higher risk this year imo)
- I'd be pretty happy with any of these guys in the Raps developmental system (in order):
----- CMB (broadest skillset) - Essengue (highest ceiling) - Fleming (well rounded; best 3p) - Carter Bryant

Whatever the choice, I think the Raptors get a solid rotation player.

edit to add Keandre's mock after the combine:

Watch on YouTube

[Clutch0z24]

I'm starting to lean towards drafting CMB. After reading a lot of comments about how bad his shot is, that he's similar to Mogbo and his bad shooting performance at the combine I didn't even want to look at his game but man I'm glad I didn't do that. He's a unique player with size, smarts, physicality, he's a dawg, can defend pretty much anyone, process the game game at a high level, great passer, I mean he has a lot going for him.

...and then there's his shot. I have to agree it's not great but it's not broken like Draymond and he's been willing to let it go this year although only made 9. If the shot ever gets there, this is the type of player you want in the playoffs when everything gets way more physical. There's a chance everyone we like gets picked before 9 and he's the one guy left with more upside. If they believe the shot can get better I hope they don't overthink it and just draft him.

Yeah the highlights and game tape you can like him but for me personally hes 6"6 without shoes so 6"7 with shoes....Its hard for me to imagine him having an advantage playing against the majority of the bigs in the league....He deff can't play C.....So then you have a log jam....Barnes/CMB/Mogbo...

Where does CMB fit in with the starting lineup ever? With Ingram/Barnes at SF/PF theres no spot for him to take in our starting lineup....So you are drafting a permanent bench guy....He does not have a 3 point shot so if you tried to play a Barnes/CMB/Yak lineup the spacing would be bad...

If you tried to turn him into a C....Every C in the league would be able to shoot over him or have such a size advantage it just would not work....

CMB is really a SG/SF Size in a PF/C body....And his game as well is a PF/C game i don't think he could ever change his game enough to be a wing (Where he should be playing)...

I do think CMB is a productive player but i feel we will need to literally change our entire team to fit his style of play if we want to get the most out of him....We would have to trade Barnes for an elite 3 point shooting PG like Trae Young, Trade RJ/Yak for someone like Tyler Herro, And sign Myles Turner as a free agent for CMB to make sense on this team...

Trae/Herro/Ingram/CMB/Turner < Now that makes 1000 percent sense and would be a good team...
IQ/Ingram/Barnes/CMB/Yak.....Yeah....No lol Spacing would be horrendous....

Good player but if he were like 6"10 or 6"11 and his shot wasn't as broken (Can't even really shoot in open gym which is a bad sign) he would be my top pick in this class...If he were legit C height....He would fill a need and could become a starter one day....Too Bad hes not tho

[djsunyc]

is queen a walking bucket? because we need guys to put the ball in the basket when things grind down.

[BoyzNTheHood]

I’d take Sorber over Queen. I know one produced, and I realize the other has a foot injury… but it is what it is for me.

[Clutch0z24]

is queen a walking bucket? because we need guys to put the ball in the basket when things grind down.

Hes not a walking bucket because he can be a streaky shooter right now....But his jumpshot is good enough to get him by.....In the paint, and mid range tho hes pretty lethal....I would say out of the bigs in this class he has the best bucket getting outcome of them all....



If you look at his games on the year....Hes had alot of 20-25+ Games and usually scores in the high teens ....So he could projct as a guy you can give it too and get you buckets but he needs to unlock his 3 point shot still.