Andrea isn't a C - But what is a C?

[strangespot]

Bargnani has already had 4 years in the NBA. How long does it take someone to learn something? 4 years is a long time. I don't expect his rebounding or his help defense to improve. He is what he is. I hope this season will finally put an end to all the excuses.
He's just not that good. An average player, best suited as a 6th man.
Now that BC has finally discovered the importance of athleticism and defense, I hope he'll unload this overrated bum. But we all know that's not going to happen.

it takes that long because Bargs didnt have a clear path with regards to his development. Once a PF, than a C and then again a SF.

BEFORE he came to the NBA he was a totally different player, thinner, more mobile, fast and fluid moves (REALLY looked like Dirk back in those days). He did everything with ease and was not just coincidence that he was selected european youth player in 2006 and that he was crucial for Benetton's league win.

then he came to NBA, was forced to bulk up to play centre and when he was showing some promising improvements at C (beginning of 3rd season) he was moved to SF... what a joke.

[theDEATH]

It's an ingenious move in BC's part that he drafted a PF knowing the fact Bosh could depart after his contract was over and plus it's better draft based on talent than team needs. Gay is more of chucker than a player that would resort to playing teamball as well.

Fixed.

On a more serious note, you ALWAYS draft BPA. Don't complain and whine about that crap, when you have the first overall pick, you take the potential superstar, not the player that fits the best.

[Truthrising]

Another thing...for the poster's who say we could've gotten (fill in the blank) instead of bargnani. I can pretty much use that excuse when Bosh was drafted, I could've said we could've drafted Wade instead. Same goes for Derozan or Ed Davis. All i'm saying is that's a poor excuse for attacking a player.

[dawn_wan]

stopped reading at "karim".. seriously?

[SDM]

Another thing...for the poster's who say we could've gotten (fill in the blank) instead of bargnani. I can pretty much use that excuse when Bosh was drafted, I could've said we could've drafted Wade instead. Same goes for Derozan or Ed Davis. All i'm saying is that's a poor excuse for attacking a player.

Ahhhh, the hindsight argument, a Bosh v. Bargnani regular occurrence. Ironically, those who bring up the 2006 Draft would never, ever, ever bring up the 2003 Draft.

[Black Milk]

Wow did Bargnani's rebounding just get compared to Karim and D. Robinson.
Man appel I know you loved Bargnani but seriously, try to tone it down a little.

[Indeed]

Because we've needed a skilled athletic 3 more than we've needed a jump shooting C the last 4 years.

Moon, no?
Hedo, no?

Who ever we drafted, he will not get the ball/touches.
Even DeRozan and Weems had limited touches last year. Until Bosh got hurt, and Weems scored like 22 on a night.

Obviously, Bargnani is not a bad choice, as he can play off the ball and as a spot up shooter, who can defend his position. I don't see a difference even we have Iggy instead of Bargnani. We are not going to the playoffs as long as most of our players are under utilized (from JO, Marion, Hedo, they are all under utilized, limited touches).

Moon? Is that supposed to be an argument against us needing a skilled athletic 3 when Bargs was drafted? We were so desperate for some athleticism at the wings that we STARTED A D-LEAGUER! Hedo was signed as a band-aid. If we had a legit 3, the Hedo catastrophe would have been avoided and we would've been able to get even deeper. Think about it... if we had Rudy Gay, the Marion trade never happens, the Hedo signing doesn't happen, the CV for TJ trade may or may not happen, etc, etc. It's beating on a dead horse but the Bargs' pick had an immense trickle-down effect on the subsequent moves over the past 4 years, most of which didn't end up working out as well as we'd hoped.

This is your thought in the best case scenario.
You can never prove you are right, but I can prove I am right with the touches.

Again, even we have Gay or Iggy, whoever you name at SF, we will never be an elite team. They won't get the touches they need to perform. Bargnani played SF, and he can create for himself, but how many touches he got under Smitch?
It is proven that it is NOT about who we get, it is about how we can utilize every player we got. Simply we NEVER use them properly, yes, include D-league players in Moon, who asked to be a spot up shooter.

[DasKoo]

stopped reading at "karim".. seriously?

the name is کریم‎; whether you choose to transliterate it as Kareem or Karim… whatever.

[sanity]

I swear its been the exact same thread for the past 4 years. How many more excuses? No... Raptors win!

[DasKoo]

So he's basically walking away from the basket with Wade soaring for a dunk...

in that case, you have three options:
1) you slam wade to the ground with a hard foul making sure he doesn't get the "and one": you may be called for a flagrant, though, and it happens more and more frequently;
2) you walk away from wade, so that the referee doesn't feel the urge to hand him a freebie at the line;
3) you stay there, the ref will call a foul even if you don't do ****, 2+1.

body-slamming his guts to the ground is obviously the right answer — it sets the tone for the game, yadda yadda. but that's not bargnani's job. that's reggie's, amir's, scrub-of-the-week-dorsey's job.

the WRONG answer is the 3, and that's what happens all the time. walking away from the path of wade is way, way more sensible than that.

p.s.: there's no 4) you try to get a charge, dude: it's dwyane frigging wade, the guy who was handed a ring by the referees. you ain't gonna get no charge called, man.

[Calderoni_8]

We're pretty much stuck with this waste of a first overall pick, might aswell keep the lard.

[Raconteur]

that's why your not a GM my friend..leave it to the people (BC&friends) who knows what they're doing.

They've done a great job so far haven't they? Yes and indeed who knows what they're doing?

Two extremes in this thread: one with blind borderline erotic support for Andrea and the other: raging eye gouging hate. I won't sugar coat it like some people with their "Not hating on Bargnani" line then follow it up with a list of why he is a POS.

I'll go with this:
Bargnani is like what Calderoni_8 says: a waste of a first overall pick and what appel says: he should play somewhere else because apparently Raptors fans don't deserve him and I think majority would say they don't care because he won't light the world on fire anytime soon. He can go and "develop" somewhere else.

[clownparade]

yea "bargs" is far better than this 39 year old dude name karim.

[plainballing]

So he's basically walking away from the basket with Wade soaring for a dunk...

in that case, you have three options:
1) you slam wade to the ground with a hard foul making sure he doesn't get the "and one": you may be called for a flagrant, though, and it happens more and more frequently;
2) you walk away from wade, so that the referee doesn't feel the urge to hand him a freebie at the line;
3) you stay there, the ref will call a foul even if you don't do ****, 2+1.

body-slamming his guts to the ground is obviously the right answer — it sets the tone for the game, yadda yadda. but that's not bargnani's job. that's reggie's, amir's, scrub-of-the-week-dorsey's job.

the WRONG answer is the 3, and that's what happens all the time. walking away from the path of wade is way, way more sensible than that.

p.s.: there's no 4) you try to get a charge, dude: it's dwyane frigging wade, the guy who was handed a ring by the referees. you ain't gonna get no charge called, man.

Well...if Barg's intentionally walk away...fine...but he's not. He walked away without even notice Wade coming...so option 1 is not available.

[cage]

Another thing...for the poster's who say we could've gotten (fill in the blank) instead of bargnani. I can pretty much use that excuse when Bosh was drafted, I could've said we could've drafted Wade instead. Same goes for Derozan or Ed Davis. All i'm saying is that's a poor excuse for attacking a player.

Ahhhh, the hindsight argument, a Bosh v. Bargnani regular occurrence. Ironically, those who bring up the 2006 Draft would never, ever, ever bring up the 2003 Draft.

it's hard to blame gg as we had, at that time, a legit superstar guard

[Truthrising]

that's why your not a GM my friend..leave it to the people (BC&friends) who knows what they're doing.

They've done a great job so far haven't they? Yes and indeed who knows what they're doing?

Two extremes in this thread: one with blind borderline erotic support for Andrea and the other: raging eye gouging hate. I won't sugar coat it like some people with their "Not hating on Bargnani" line then follow it up with a list of why he is a POS.

I'll go with this:
Bargnani is like what Calderoni_8 says: a waste of a first overall pick and what appel says: he should play somewhere else because apparently Raptors fans don't deserve him and I think majority would say they don't care because he won't light the world on fire anytime soon. He can go and "develop" somewhere else.

How's he considered a waste when he's average 80 games a season for the last 3 yrs, imo that's pretty good production for a big unlike another center that was taken 1st overall (Greg Oden). As others have said it's still too early to judge what type of player he will become, you can hypothetically say he will become a 20pt scorer since he'll be given more touches this year compared to last year, you can also probably say he'll improve on his rebounding as well. Now wouldn't that be good value for someone who getting paid 8 mill next season compared to let say aldridge @ 10 mill or probably Gay who got paid max.

[Indeed]

So he's basically walking away from the basket with Wade soaring for a dunk...

in that case, you have three options:
1) you slam wade to the ground with a hard foul making sure he doesn't get the "and one": you may be called for a flagrant, though, and it happens more and more frequently;
2) you walk away from wade, so that the referee doesn't feel the urge to hand him a freebie at the line;
3) you stay there, the ref will call a foul even if you don't do ****, 2+1.

body-slamming his guts to the ground is obviously the right answer — it sets the tone for the game, yadda yadda. but that's not bargnani's job. that's reggie's, amir's, scrub-of-the-week-dorsey's job.

the WRONG answer is the 3, and that's what happens all the time. walking away from the path of wade is way, way more sensible than that.

p.s.: there's no 4) you try to get a charge, dude: it's dwyane frigging wade, the guy who was handed a ring by the referees. you ain't gonna get no charge called, man.

Well...if Barg's intentionally walk away...fine...but he's not. He walked away without even notice Wade coming...so option 1 is not available.

Didn't he redeem himself by forcing Wade to turn the ball over?
I think everyone make mistakes, and every know it is not his natural position, so what's the problem of giving him time to develop? Do we need to blame D. Howard for his lack of offense like Shaq? Or Aldridge for his shot blocking ability?

[Too Late Crew]

I'm becoming more and more convinced that "Bargnani can't play defense" is code for "he's a poor rebounder, so he's poor defensively". If this is the case, he's a pretty good shotblocker for a guy who parks his ass at the three point line.

Shotblocking and 3 point shooting are totally unrelated. You realize that shotblocking takes place on defense and 3 point shooting take place on offense right. Before you try to say people who shoot 3s don;t block shots check out this stat

Season 88-89
Games played 80
3 point attempts 90
Blocks 345

[plainballing]

Didn't he redeem himself by forcing Wade to turn the ball over?
I think everyone make mistakes, and every know it is not his natural position, so what's the problem of giving him time to develop? Do we need to blame D. Howard for his lack of offense like Shaq? Or Aldridge for his shot blocking ability?

That's what I mean, he was horrible on help D...he certainly got this season to show us that he's capable...

Big men take more time to develop...so I hope Bargs is molding into form this season when Bosh is gone. As of today...he's more or less our only hope this coming season if we want to win...

[Indeed]

Didn't he redeem himself by forcing Wade to turn the ball over?
I think everyone make mistakes, and every know it is not his natural position, so what's the problem of giving him time to develop? Do we need to blame D. Howard for his lack of offense like Shaq? Or Aldridge for his shot blocking ability?

That's what I mean, he was horrible on help D...he certainly got this season to show us that he's capable...

Big men take more time to develop...so I hope Bargs is molding into form this season when Bosh is gone. As of today...he's more or less our only hope this coming season if we want to win...

Ah, thanks for correcting me.

However, I think the problem lies on our offense next season.
Without Hedo, I think we can have a better defender at SF, but we lack playmaker on the offense.

I am not high on Bargnani to score all the points for the team, so I am more concern with our wings/guards position, which requires them not only scoring, but also creating for others.