What's the difference between Andersen and Bargnani?

[alpha]

If Il Mago wasn't the first overall pick back in 2006, he would've been forced to the end of the bench or traded by now and certainly wouldn't be enjoying the lazy comfort of 5 more guaranteed years of fat paychecks and unearned minutes as a starter.

1st overall busts like him, Joe Smith, Michael Olowokandi and Kwame Brown have all extended their careers because of their draft status.

Putting him in the same class as"Kwame" just shows how the idiots come crawling out of the woodwork whenever they get a chance to pounce.
I'm a bargs fan..but one of the 1st to admit he's lazy and needs some toughness..but some of the moronic statements in here can only lead me to believe that the IQ level in here is dropping daily.
Infact it's ironic how when the ""idiots" who propose trading him always want top value in their trades... boggles the mind.

If Bargnani is drafted, say 21st overall, he never gets off the bench after his 2nd season and he's relegated to Michael Bradley scrub status.

Only a moron would believe that his heavy minutes and starting role are a product of superior play.

•Right now I'm sitting here looking at you trying to see things from your point of view but I can't get my head that far up my ass

[Volcano]

Wether Bargnani is hitting his shots or not teams must account for him at all times and in doing so he opens up the floor for others.. Teams last year and even more so this year geared their defensive game plan to stop him because they understand unlike you that he is a quality scorer with the ability to put up points at any given time from anywhere on the court...

Wether you understand it or have the ability to admit it or not Bargnani has been a big part of this teams offense wether he is scoring or not and that is an offense consistantly ranked among the NBA's best....

Let me know when Anderson garners that much attention, where teams gameplan to stop Andersen and toss double and triple teams at him, where all that attention opens the floor for Andersen's teammates... Let me know when you see something in Andersen several years older than Bargnani that sends off singals that he is able to score 17ppg or has the ability to drop 20-30 on you on any given night...

Offensively Bargnani does alot even when he is not scoring even if you and anyone else considers him streaky, he must at all times be accounted for and every opposing player must know where he is at all times....

Thats just one or several things he does when he isn't scoring, he has a presence offensively that Andersen or any other scrub you guys compare him to will never have.... Defensively I guess you could say he has a knack for blocking shots where as Andersen isn't exactly known for his shot blocking or anything else for that matter....

wow..so now team's defensive game plans are to throw double and triple teams at Bargnani? Talk about delusional. We should pass it to him every time and there will always be 1-2 people open for a cut or jumper.

So Bargnani's value off the ball is that he just stands there and the defense has to be aware of where he is. Yet that's so much different than the Kapono's of the league because Bargnani's 3 points hurt a lot more. I guess every opposing player doesn't need to know where everyone else is, only Bargnani, because a player cutting in for a dunk is nothing compared to Bargnani's pump fake, step in and brick move.

And now he's a great shot blocker. LOL. Tell that to Bargs and he'll laugh in your face. I guess Bargnani's shot blocking prevented all the lay-up drills we've seen in the last 4 years. Oh wait, that already happened. (Before you start making excuses and pointing elsewhere, Bosh sucked too. That's why they were a bad defensive combo)

There are much better arguments for Bargnani's value. Don't blindly follow someone while ignoring his game.

[dacrusha]

Putting him in the same class as"Kwame" just shows how the idiots come crawling out of the woodwork whenever they get a chance to pounce.
I'm a bargs fan..but one of the 1st to admit he's lazy and needs some toughness..but some of the moronic statements in here can only lead me to believe that the IQ level in here is dropping daily.
Infact it's ironic how when the ""idiots" who propose trading him always want top value in their trades... boggles the mind.

If Bargnani is drafted, say 21st overall, he never gets off the bench after his 2nd season and he's relegated to Michael Bradley scrub status.

Only a moron would believe that his heavy minutes and starting role are a product of superior play.

•Right now I'm sitting here looking at you trying to see things from your point of view but I can't get my head that far up my ass

It was already up your ass the moment you confessed to being a Bargnani fan, so no big deal for you.

[Local_NG_Idiot]

1st overall busts like him, Joe Smith, Michael Olowokandi and Kwame Brown have all extended their careers because of their draft status.

Putting him in the same class as"Kwame" just shows how the idiots come crawling out of the woodwork whenever they get a chance to pounce.
I'm a bargs fan..but one of the 1st to admit he's lazy and needs some toughness..but some of the moronic statements in here can only lead me to believe that the IQ level in here is dropping daily.
Infact it's ironic how when the ""idiots" who propose trading him always want top value in their trades... boggles the mind.

Kandi's 4th year (arguably his best):
11pts 9rbs 1.1asts 1.8blks (ranked 2nd in defensive rebounding on the team, had the best DRTG (102) on an average defensive team) 12.4 PER

Kwame's 3rd year (arguably his best):
11pts 7.5rbs 1.5asts 0.7blks (ranked 3rd in defensive rebounding on the team, had the 3rd best DRTG (104) on a below average defensive team however was better at both of these than Haywood that season). 15.7 PER

Bargnani's 4th year (arguably his best):
17pts 6rbs 1.2asts 1.4 blks (ranked 4th in defensive rebounding on the team, had the worst DRTG (113) of all big men on his team for one of the worst defensive teams of the decade however he was slightly better than Turk - the starting SF who didn't give a rats a$$ at rebounding and defense). 15.5 PER

Joe Smith's 2nd year (arguably his best):
18.5pts 8.5rbs 1.6asts 1.1blks (ranked 4th in defensive rebounding on the team, had the worst DRTG (112) of all big men on his team for one of the worst defensive teams of the 96-97 season). 16 PER

Now I'm not saying he's a bust at this point in his career, and I don't think many were calling these other 3 busts when they put up similar numbers within their first couple of years in the league either. But when you put all 4 of these guys numbers and team rankings side by side, it sure looks like it's a valid discussion to at least compare them.

[jrsmith]

If Bargnani is drafted, say 21st overall, he never gets off the bench after his 2nd season and he's relegated to Michael Bradley scrub status.

Only a moron would believe that his heavy minutes and starting role are a product of superior play.

Exactly.

[Harry Palmer]

1st overall busts like him, Joe Smith, Michael Olowokandi and Kwame Brown have all extended their careers because of their draft status.

Putting him in the same class as"Kwame" just shows how the idiots come crawling out of the woodwork whenever they get a chance to pounce.
I'm a bargs fan..but one of the 1st to admit he's lazy and needs some toughness..but some of the moronic statements in here can only lead me to believe that the IQ level in here is dropping daily.
Infact it's ironic how when the ""idiots" who propose trading him always want top value in their trades... boggles the mind.

Kandi's 4th year (arguably his best):
11pts 9rbs 1.1asts 1.8blks (ranked 2nd in defensive rebounding on the team, had the best DRTG (102) on an average defensive team) 12.4 PER

Kwame's 3rd year (arguably his best):
11pts 7.5rbs 1.5asts 0.7blks (ranked 3rd in defensive rebounding on the team, had the 3rd best DRTG (104) on a below average defensive team however was better at both of these than Haywood that season). 15.7 PER

Bargnani's 4th year (arguably his best):
17pts 6rbs 1.2asts 1.4 blks (ranked 4th in defensive rebounding on the team, had the worst DRTG (113) of all big men on his team for one of the worst defensive teams of the decade however he was slightly better than Turk - the starting SF who didn't give a rats a$$ at rebounding and defense). 15.5 PER

Joe Smith's 2nd year (arguably his best):
18.5pts 8.5rbs 1.6asts 1.1blks (ranked 4th in defensive rebounding on the team, had the worst DRTG (112) of all big men on his team for one of the worst defensive teams of the 96-97 season). 16 PER

Now I'm not saying he's a bust at this point in his career, and I don't think many were calling these other 3 busts when they put up similar numbers within their first couple of years in the league either. But when you put all 4 of these guys numbers and team rankings side by side, it sure looks like it's a valid discussion to at least compare them.

Someone should really try to set the Bar(gnani) in this regard.

[Tommy Gun]

1st overall busts like him, Joe Smith, Michael Olowokandi and Kwame Brown have all extended their careers because of their draft status.

Putting him in the same class as"Kwame" just shows how the idiots come crawling out of the woodwork whenever they get a chance to pounce.
I'm a bargs fan..but one of the 1st to admit he's lazy and needs some toughness..but some of the moronic statements in here can only lead me to believe that the IQ level in here is dropping daily.
Infact it's ironic how when the ""idiots" who propose trading him always want top value in their trades... boggles the mind.

Kandi's 4th year (arguably his best):
11pts 9rbs 1.1asts 1.8blks (ranked 2nd in defensive rebounding on the team, had the best DRTG (102) on an average defensive team) 12.4 PER

Kwame's 3rd year (arguably his best):
11pts 7.5rbs 1.5asts 0.7blks (ranked 3rd in defensive rebounding on the team, had the 3rd best DRTG (104) on a below average defensive team however was better at both of these than Haywood that season). 15.7 PER

Bargnani's 4th year (arguably his best):
17pts 6rbs 1.2asts 1.4 blks (ranked 4th in defensive rebounding on the team, had the worst DRTG (113) of all big men on his team for one of the worst defensive teams of the decade however he was slightly better than Turk - the starting SF who didn't give a rats a$$ at rebounding and defense). 15.5 PER

Joe Smith's 2nd year (arguably his best):
18.5pts 8.5rbs 1.6asts 1.1blks (ranked 4th in defensive rebounding on the team, had the worst DRTG (112) of all big men on his team for one of the worst defensive teams of the 96-97 season). 16 PER

Now I'm not saying he's a bust at this point in his career, and I don't think many were calling these other 3 busts when they put up similar numbers within their first couple of years in the league either. But when you put all 4 of these guys numbers and team rankings side by side, it sure looks like it's a valid discussion to at least compare them.

Did any of them have an amazing nickname like IL MAGO though?

[C_Money]

Anybody who watches the NBA finals knows that you can't have a player like Bargs on your team if you want to make it that far. His lack of hustle and overall stupid mistakes would send him right to the end of the bench. David Andersen clearly isn't as good but atleast he knows what you need to do to win a basketball game.

[Too Late Crew]

I can tell you how Bargs and Adersen are the SAME...

If either one is your starting big minute center you are not winning jack isht.

Andersen is a scrub. He's an average defender and rebounder at best. His offense is basically nothing but some streaky outside shooting.

Bargs defends and rebounds like a scrub but can score decently well as long as he's not option 1.

I'd much rather have Bargs on the floor than Andersen if its for more than token minutes but frankly I don't want either as my starting center.

There are cenrtain types of players that while talented are just extremly difficult to build a team with becuase of the players you need to put around them to compensate

Undersized ball hogging SGs like say Iverson or Ben Gordon. They require a PG who is big enough and capable of defending Sgs. They need surrounding players who don't require the ball.

Jump shooting poor rebounding bad help defensing centers fall into this group also. You need to have some post scoring. If your center is a jumpshooter you need to find a post scoring PF or SF. If you have a poor rebounding center you need strong rebounding SF and PF. Poor help D? You need a strong help defending PF.

The bottom line is that Bargs is a poor rebounding stratch big. Stretch bigs are only good if you have someone down low for them to strecth the floor for. Poor rebounding bigs are only useful if they have other very strong rebounders to offset them. Bargs needs to be a compliment to some other frontcourt guy. Problem is that the frontcourt guy he would compliment basically plays for Orlando. Its very hard to get a Howard or a SHAQ or even a Demarcus cousins.

[Kordic27]

You avoided the question.

If Bargs isn't hitting his shots what else does he do?

Is Bargs streky or not?

I never argued Andersen was better or better shooter. Can you deny that Bargs is a streky player who contributes almost nothing else if he isn't hitting his jumpshot?

Wether Bargnani is hitting his shots or not teams must account for him at all times and in doing so he opens up the floor for others.. Teams last year and even more so this year geared their defensive game plan to stop him because they understand unlike you that he is a quality scorer with the ability to put up points at any given time from anywhere on the court...

Wether you understand it or have the ability to admit it or not Bargnani has been a big part of this teams offense wether he is scoring or not and that is an offense consistantly ranked among the NBA's best....

Let me know when Anderson garners that much attention, where teams gameplan to stop Andersen and toss double and triple teams at him, where all that attention opens the floor for Andersen's teammates... Let me know when you see something in Andersen several years older than Bargnani that sends off singals that he is able to score 17ppg or has the ability to drop 20-30 on you on any given night...

Offensively Bargnani does alot even when he is not scoring even if you and anyone else considers him streaky, he must at all times be accounted for and every opposing player must know where he is at all times....

Thats just one or several things he does when he isn't scoring, he has a presence offensively that Andersen or any other scrub you guys compare him to will never have.... Defensively I guess you could say he has a knack for blocking shots where as Andersen isn't exactly known for his shot blocking or anything else for that matter....

You know you're an Bargnani apologist when you can figure out how to sing his praises when he's doing garbage on both defence AND offence. Great job with this - it's up there with the argument that Bargs would be an amazing rebounder if his teammates didn't steal all the rebounds.

[pass first]

1st overall busts like him, Joe Smith, Michael Olowokandi and Kwame Brown have all extended their careers because of their draft status.

Yeah... New Jersey signed Joe Smith this summer because he was drafted #1 in 1995. That must be it.

[jrsmith]

1st overall busts like him, Joe Smith, Michael Olowokandi and Kwame Brown have all extended their careers because of their draft status.

Yeah... New Jersey signed Joe Smith this summer because he was drafted #1 in 1995. That must be it.

If lucky, bargnani might follow in the same footsteps. He just has to hope that reggie stops stealing those dang rebounds.

[pass first]

You know you're an Bargnani apologist when you can figure out how to sing his praises when he's doing garbage on both defence AND offence. Great job with this - it's up there with the argument that Bargs would be an amazing rebounder if his teammates didn't steal all the rebounds.

You know you're a biased hater when you can't help yourself beating the dead horse of 'stolen rebounds'.

edit: ah two flies in one. Nice.

[pass first]

Anybody who watches the NBA finals knows that you can't have a player like Bargs on your team if you want to make it that far. His lack of hustle and overall stupid mistakes would send him right to the end of the bench.

I bet you would have said the same about Turkoglu had you only known him as a Raptor.

[the wizard]

Anybody who watches the NBA finals knows that you can't have a player like Bargs on your team if you want to make it that far. His lack of hustle and overall stupid mistakes would send him right to the end of the bench. David Andersen clearly isn't as good but atleast he knows what you need to do to win a basketball game.

You must be a Derozan fan .

[Seebs]

magic school bus!

[sanity]

Have faith guys

[LodzBaluty]

We need both of them. I don't have an issue with either player when they are giving their best.

[AB ALLSTAR]

Please Andrea ask to Colangelo to be traded in any NBA team in wich you can play near a real center and far away from these usual haters that are so expert about basketball. They love so much their team that their favourite hobby is to blame you that still remain the best player that they have. But they want to bench you. Stay away from them, they do not know the words pizza, wine, sun and women!

[C_Money]

Anybody who watches the NBA finals knows that you can't have a player like Bargs on your team if you want to make it that far. His lack of hustle and overall stupid mistakes would send him right to the end of the bench.

I bet you would have said the same about Turkoglu had you only known him as a Raptor.

No. The bball IQ between Turk and Bargnani isn't even close. Try to picture Bargnani playing in the finals last year and you can easily see how a player like that would get exposed so badly that you couldn't afford to have him on the court.