Official CBA/Labour Talks Discussion Thread III

Ponchos · Post #121 » by **Ponchos** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:09 am

Courtside wrote:jadande:
"revised > ultimatum"

I guess the latest offer is yet another "take it or it will get worse..."

Take it or leave it by Wednesday! And by that I mean if you don't take it, we'll make you a better offer on Thursday that you have to take! Or else! NOT JOKING THIS TIME!

Courtside · Post #122 » by **Courtside** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:12 am

Stein:
Union's Billy Hunter: "It's not the greatest proposal in the world, but I have an obligation to at least present it to our membership."

Union doesn't like it, but sounds like it will be voted on - hopefully cooler heads prevail among the players and there is enough in the deal for them to accept.

haha - Hollinger:
Geesh. C'mon guys. Monday or Tuesday to meet with player reps and discuss this proposal? It's called Skype. Try it. Tomorrow.

bboyskinnylegs · Post #123 » by **bboyskinnylegs** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:18 am

here's stern

EDIT: it looks like we won't get any particulars from him

Courtside · Post #124 » by **Courtside** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:38 am

Stern and Silver stated they took the players remaining concerns to the labor board, addressed many of them to the extent that the board allowed them to, and now the players have to decide if there is enough common ground to accept - which would mean a 72 game season starting Dec 15.

Ponchos · Post #125 » by **Ponchos** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:42 am

Hope this goes to a vote.

bboyskinnylegs · Post #126 » by **bboyskinnylegs** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:59 am

WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
Several agents tell Y! Sports they have 200-plus player signatures for union decertification petition and paperwork could be filed Friday.

RapsFanInVA · Post #127 » by **RapsFanInVA** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:11 am

bboyskinnylegs wrote:
WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
Several agents tell Y! Sports they have 200-plus player signatures for union decertification petition and paperwork could be filed Friday.

Curveball! I thought a deal was about to be reached?

ronleroy · Post #128 » by **ronleroy** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:18 am

i still think they could go the route of decertify, the voice of the angry will probably drown out the voices of mid to low earners.

Snakeyes · Post #129 » by **Snakeyes** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:23 am

These self-entitled primadonnas are really starting to piss me off.

C_Money · Post #130 » by **C_Money** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:24 am

200 signatures already. Wow. That really shows you how many players are in this for the love of the game. Not much.

knickerbocker2k2 · Post #131 » by **knickerbocker2k2** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:35 am

We have another month before we will reach the point of no return in terms of saving season. Players are going to hold out for the best possible deal which IMO will come at this point. Despite Stern ultimatums the offers will only get better, especially if players decertify. Remember it will require 45 days before they can vote on it. This will give them leverage and fits the timeline perfectly.

Despite what you hear about owners being hardliners and Stern not having control, all this NBA perfect media storm. Stern is really controlling the messaging that media drives to the players/public. All owners would love to get the best deal. However there are only few willing to lose the season to get these extra concessions. So as time approaches "d-day" more owners will be wiling to concede these provisions. I think Stern has overplayed his hand here. If he got the players to 50-50, he should consider everything else gravy. At this point one or two few concessions would essentially get the players voting for it.

Laowai · Post #132 » by **Laowai** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:44 am

knickerbocker2k2 wrote:We have another month before we will reach the point of no return in terms of saving season. Players are going to hold out for the best possible deal which IMO will come at this point. Despite Stern ultimatums the offers will only get better, especially if players decertify. Remember it will require 45 days before they can vote on it. This will give them leverage and fits the timeline perfectly.

Despite what you hear about owners being hardliners and Stern not having control, all this NBA perfect media storm. Stern is really controlling the messaging that media drives to the players/public. All owners would love to get the best deal. However there are only few willing to lose the season to get these extra concessions. So as time approaches "d-day" more owners will be wiling to concede these provisions. I think Stern has overplayed his hand here. If he got the players to 50-50, he should consider everything else gravy. At this point one or two few concessions would essentially get the players voting for it.

The union will turn it down that is a typical.
If they want to go the de-certify route best of luck they will need it.

redred9 · Post #133 » by **redred9** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:59 am

i haven't really been following too closely, but surely there is no way the players will decertify when they've already accepted a 50-50 split? They want to decertify over the MLE? Come on.

jeffya2 · Post #134 » by **jeffya2** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:00 am

With the world melting down, does anyone out there have a 10 year employment deal in place
In 2 years the players are going to "kiss the ground" if they are smart enough to "take this deal" and run

In 2-3 years there will be no European Union and no European jobs for NBA players
Without this deal players better start learning Chinese as this will likely be thier only other option

S.W.A.N · Post #135 » by **S.W.A.N** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:53 am

C_Money wrote:200 signatures already. Wow. That really shows you how many players are in this for the love of the game. Not much.

200 signatures means nothing. This is just to start the process and is ment to add a little leverage to the players side.

I bet half of those signatures would not vote to decertify.

It sounds like the owners moved, perhaps enough to get it to a vote but not enough for Hunter/Fisher to endorse...

But who expected the owners to move enough for that to happen.

I think it goes to a vote, and gets signed... 72 games or zero when the average player only has a 3-4 year career this is a no brainer. Its the stars and guys who have longer careers that are willing to fight longer.

But first thing first, decertification petition probably gets delivered tomorrow, starting that process. Then mondayish union reps meet again, then another couple days to send it to vote. We won't know for sure if season till middle of next week....

Tofubeque · Post #136 » by **Tofubeque** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:56 am

redred9 wrote:i haven't really been following too closely, but surely there is no way the players will decertify when they've already accepted a 50-50 split? They want to decertify over the MLE? Come on.

How will the entire league play in New York and Miami without a few MLEs?

ghuytro · Post #137 » by **ghuytro** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:04 am

bboyskinnylegs wrote:
WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
Several agents tell Y! Sports they have 200-plus player signatures for union decertification petition and paperwork could be filed Friday.

What a surprise that it's the agents making sure that information gets leaked…

Agents and agencies collectively have the most to lose in all of this - tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars in commission over the lifespan of a 10 year CBA.

Rapsfan07 · Post #138 » by **Rapsfan07** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:35 am

Well... seems like there was some movement on the system.

My opinion is now that the Player's actually have a bit of leverage here despite how negotiations currently look and Stern needs to sweeten the pot. Either with some system concessions or on the BRI.If I'm the Player's side, tomorrow morning I file that decertification petition and let it sit and linger in the air for a little while. On Sunday, fly in the Player reps and go over the details of the new proposal and then they can go two things. They can either go back to the negotiating table on Monday with the real threat of decertifcation and force Stern to add a sweetner on the system or BRI if they believe they can get more. Otherwise, they can put it to a vote and have an answer by Tuesday. The sooner they move, the better.

Personally I think that a slight concession of 51-49 for the Player's and slight movement on the MLE, trade salary restriction should be enough for the Plaayers to agree to.

S.W.A.N · Post #139 » by **S.W.A.N** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:20 am

Rapsfan07 wrote:Well... seems like there was some movement on the system.

My opinion is now that the Player's actually have a bit of leverage here despite how negotiations currently look and Stern needs to sweeten the pot. Either with some system concessions or on the BRI.If I'm the Player's side, tomorrow morning I file that decertification petition and let it sit and linger in the air for a little while. On Sunday, fly in the Player reps and go over the details of the new proposal and then they can go two things. They can either go back to the negotiating table on Monday with the real threat of decertifcation and force Stern to add a sweetner on the system or BRI if they believe they can get more. Otherwise, they can put it to a vote and have an answer by Tuesday. The sooner they move, the better.

Personally I think that a slight concession of 51-49 for the Player's and slight movement on the MLE, trade salary restriction should be enough for the Plaayers to agree to.

Owners won't go for it...

You have to remember that a high percentage of the owners don't care if they miss a season or not, its better for them to miss a season and get big changes then commit to a 'fair' deal

Then there is the middle group of owners that want changes but not necessarily at the cost of lost season.

Finally there are the big market teams that just want to play.

The last group is the smallest and the middle group is the biggest but the first group is the most vocal.

Owners don't believe that players will go through with decertification because it means wiping out the entire season, the are obviously banking on this with this last proposal....

I honestly think we are at the tipping point now. Take this deal or no matter what it gets worse from here on in. Just like the hockey players union

And if initial responces are any indication the NBA players union is going to do exactly what the NHL players union did...Fight the good fight and lose millions of dollars.

ATLTimekeeper · Post #140 » by **ATLTimekeeper** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:36 am

knickerbocker2k2 wrote:We have another month before we will reach the point of no return in terms of saving season. Players are going to hold out for the best possible deal which IMO will come at this point. Despite Stern ultimatums the offers will only get better, especially if players decertify. Remember it will require 45 days before they can vote on it. This will give them leverage and fits the timeline perfectly.

Despite what you hear about owners being hardliners and Stern not having control, all this NBA perfect media storm. Stern is really controlling the messaging that media drives to the players/public. All owners would love to get the best deal. However there are only few willing to lose the season to get these extra concessions. So as time approaches "d-day" more owners will be wiling to concede these provisions. I think Stern has overplayed his hand here. If he got the players to 50-50, he should consider everything else gravy. At this point one or two few concessions would essentially get the players voting for it.

Why do you think there are only a few willing to cancel the season? Is there a link stating that? D-Day is a bad outcome for both sides. I agree that the players want to use as much leverage as possible, but to go up to the 45th day will cost the players money that they won't earn back with system changes. Are players really going to cancel the season and threaten to blow up the league over these system changes?

I don't know what will happen, maybe the owners will cave, but I just find the scenario you painted unlikely.