Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 3

[S.W.A.N]

Davis can't make shot outside 6 feet against players he's three inches taller than. How long you all going to ignore this fact?

I know its cool to watch players with little skill dominate players they're far bigger than, but that doesnt translate at the next level, particularly in Davis case. The guy is rail thin and i question if he can guard his man an elite level level in the NBA. He's soft at the point of attack defensively. He's seems to struggle holding his position when guys get physical with him. His biggest strength is his help-D but I need to see more skill from him before I'm sold. The fact many of you act this guy is a sure-fire building piece is distrubing.

What games are you watching?

I have not seen a tonne of UK games this year so I will play along.. He is averaging 11.5 10 and 4.5 as a freshman.

I know you are hot to trot over PJIII but come on. Davis is 220ish as a freshman in college, and should be able to add muscle with maturity. His rebounding and shotblocking are elite level.

Your guy PJIII has just as many question marks around him if not more. What position does he play, why does he dominate one game and disappear the next, is his defense NBA level... I sure you have an answer for these..

Loved watching you hype Val last year but really question your PJ love.

[Steely Reserve]

Calderon
Demar
MKG
Davis
Valanciunas

I say with your Miami pick, look at a pure shooting 6th man like Miller (Kentucky) or if Marshall comes out and is there with the Heat, take him and RUN!!

[Undefeated]

I know its cool to watch players with little skill dominate players they're far bigger than, but that doesnt translate at the next level, particularly in Davis case. The guy is rail thin and i question if he can guard his man an elite level level in the NBA. He's soft at the point of attack defensively. He's seems to struggle holding his position when guys get physical with him. His biggest strength is his help-D but I need to see more skill from him before I'm sold. The fact many of you act this guy is a sure-fire building piece is distrubing.

Cody Zeller was struggling to get his shot over Anthony Davis a few weeks ago when he had him sealed. What games are you watching?

[S.W.A.N]

Calderon
Demar
MKG
Davis
Valanciunas

I say with your Miami pick, look at a pure shooting 6th man like Miller (Kentucky) or if Marshall comes out and is there with the Heat, take him and RUN!!

The miami pick was one we owed them. So we only have our own pick in this draft so far.

Agree with taking Marshall with a second pick though

[Steely Reserve]

Davis can't make shot outside 6 feet against players he's three inches taller than. How long you all going to ignore this fact?

I know its cool to watch players with little skill dominate players they're far bigger than, but that doesnt translate at the next level, particularly in Davis case. The guy is rail thin and i question if he can guard his man an elite level level in the NBA. He's soft at the point of attack defensively. He's seems to struggle holding his position when guys get physical with him. His biggest strength is his help-D but I need to see more skill from him before I'm sold. The fact many of you act this guy is a sure-fire building piece is distrubing.

What games are you watching?

I have not seen a tonne of UK games this year so I will play along.. He is averaging 11.5 10 and 4.5 as a freshman.

I know you are hot to trot over PJIII but come on. Davis is 220ish as a freshman in college, and should be able to add muscle with maturity. His rebounding and shotblocking are elite level.

Your guy PJIII has just as many question marks around him if not more. What position does he play, why does he dominate one game and disappear the next, is his defense NBA level... I sure you have an answer for these..

Loved watching you hype Val last year but really question your PJ love.

80% of Davis points find from lobs and dish offs that he receives from a talented group of teammates. He looks like Marcus Camby out there. I see no playmaking from him, either for himself or for others. He's struggles to post up so I don't really see that changing.

MKG is higher on my Big Board at the moment. You guys would be lucky to draft the guy. He would change the entire dynamic of your team. I think the Pippen comparisons are not totally off. He evokes that sort of aura.

[Steely Reserve]

I know its cool to watch players with little skill dominate players they're far bigger than, but that doesnt translate at the next level, particularly in Davis case. The guy is rail thin and i question if he can guard his man an elite level level in the NBA. He's soft at the point of attack defensively. He's seems to struggle holding his position when guys get physical with him. His biggest strength is his help-D but I need to see more skill from him before I'm sold. The fact many of you act this guy is a sure-fire building piece is distrubing.

Cody Zeller was struggling to get his shot over Anthony Davis a few weeks ago when he had him sealed. What games are you watching?

Ehh, I see the game differently. Zeller was obviously pumped up and was wary of the Wildcats as a team. I dont think Davis had as much to do with Zeller initially 'struggling' to get comfortable in the post as you say. Zeller eventually got Davis in foul trouble to boot.

In that game, Zeller and Davis were a wash... so why bring it up anyway? lol

[Dr Positivity]

I like ADavis but I feel like he's going to be an 11-14ppg Camby like shotblocker and rebounder. Which is GREAT, but for our team? I feel like we'd be headed towards having a lineup of roughly Jason Richardson, Serge Ibaka, Joakim Noah. That'd be nice if we have a Kevin Durant or Carmelo in there but we don't

With a lot of lunchbucket guys already on our team I'd prefer to go with the dynamic offensive talents in this draft who are IMO Lamb and PJIII

Lamb is my guy. I know it's early on Demar but I'm really starting to feel he just won't ever be special enough off the dribble to have more than JRich's career as a SG who has size and can shoot the rock (which is nothing to be ashamed about) and may be able to play SF eventually anyways. I say Lamb is special enough to get the edge

[JamesNaismith]

A few things about Barnes:

1. Its already been noted (I believe it was Chad Ford) that his defensive rating has been on an obvious decline
2. He has the worst passing efficiency out of any SF prospect by A LOT
3. His rebounding numbers have declined
4. Minus the last 26pt game he was actually thought to be in a slump due to his shooting (AGAIN like last season which shows he's obviously far too reliant on his jumper and is unable to create for himself)

As for who I would pick over MKG...Drummond and Davis are a given. I cringe when people justify taking a SF over them for need. This roster is not good enough to do that and what we need most is a franchise player which I believe both have the potential to be. Which also plays into me choosing both Perry Jones (if he remains aggressive) and Miller (if he gets healthy) over Kidd.

To be fair to Gilchrist I might give him the edge over Quincy for now until Miller has proven he can regain his form. But if Perry keeps up a pace of 20+ppg at 6'11 for a SF then that's at least a potential for franchise talent if he doesn't then we're no worse off. A player like Kidd makes the team better but to treadmill level; unfortunately our franchise needs Batman not Robin. MKG can "lead" to a degree but he can't carry a team -- just not dynamic enough just like Granger or Iggy.

[Steely Reserve]

A few things about Barnes:

1. Its already been noted (I believe it was Chad Ford) that his defensive rating has been on an obvious decline
2. He has the worst passing efficiency out of any SF prospect by A LOT
3. His rebounding numbers have declined
4. Minus the last 26pt game he was actually thought to be in a slump due to his shooting (AGAIN like last season which shows he's obviously far too reliant on his jumper and is unable to create for himself)

As for who I would pick over MKG...Drummond and Davis are a given. I cringe when people justify taking a SF over them for need. This roster is not good enough to do that and what we need most is a franchise player which I believe both have the potential to be. Which also plays into me choosing both Perry Jones (if he remains aggressive) and Miller (if he gets healthy) over Kidd.

To be fair to Gilchrist I might give him the edge over Quincy for now until Miller has proven he can regain his form. But if Perry keeps up a pace of 20+ppg at 6'11 for a SF then that's at least a potential for franchise talent if he doesn't then we're no worse off. A player like Kidd makes the team better but to treadmill level; unfortunately our franchise needs Batman not Robin. MKG can "lead" to a degree but he can't carry a team -- just not dynamic enough just like Granger or Iggy.

I don't think Drummond or Davis or no-brainers. Not because they don't have value bit more due to the fact you're selling Perry Jones and MKG really short.

I can digress on that, tho. If Perry stays as aggressive as you say you want him to, he'll be the #1 pick. And I think by tournament time MKG will be the unquestioned leader of Kentucky just as Knight was last year. Early on T. Jones got the hype but Knight was there when it mattered. I expect the same to take place with MKG and Davis.

[Undefeated]

Ehh, I see the game differently. Zeller was obviously pumped up and was wary of the Wildcats as a team. I dont think Davis had as much to do with Zeller initially 'struggling' to get comfortable in the post as you say. Zeller eventually got Davis in foul trouble to boot.

In that game, Zeller and Davis were a wash... so why bring it up anyway? lol

You claim Anthony Davis seems to struggle holding his position when guys get physical against him, but that wasn't the case. Cody Zeller had excellent post position on Anthony Davis multiple times, and Davis didn't shy away from contact. He managed to alter Zeller's shots despite the physicality. Zeller was pretty big for Indiana in that win, but it came when Davis was on the bench.

It was the same in that UNC vs. UK match-up. Tyler Zeller couldn't make his entry catch or finish easily over Davis despite having position on him as well. Zeller shot 44.4% from the field that game against UK unlike his usual 50% FG%.

[Steely Reserve]

Ehh, I see the game differently. Zeller was obviously pumped up and was wary of the Wildcats as a team. I dont think Davis had as much to do with Zeller initially 'struggling' to get comfortable in the post as you say. Zeller eventually got Davis in foul trouble to boot.

In that game, Zeller and Davis were a wash... so why bring it up anyway? lol

You claim Anthony Davis seems to struggle holding his position when guys get physical against him, but that wasn't the case. Cody Zeller had excellent post position on Anthony Davis multiple times, and Davis didn't shy away from contact. He managed to alter Zeller's shots despite the physicality. Zeller was pretty big for Indiana in that win, but it came when Davis was on the bench.

It was the same in that UNC vs. UK match-up. Tyler Zeller couldn't make his entry catch or finish easily over Davis despite having position on him as well. Zeller shot 44.4% from the field that game against UK unlike his usual 50% FG%.

I told you my take on this. Cody Zeller helped get Davis in foul trouble and had no problem establishing position on Davis. This wasn't the only game I've seen this. If you get physical with him, you can get great position on Davis. That speaks to his lack or strength and base. The latter I would worry about the most.

[Steely Reserve]

What's with this Drummond talk from you all? Either you all dont realize how good Val will be or you lack logic. You have your Center. Now get that stud SF and solidify your core.

[S.W.A.N]

What's with this Drummond talk from you all? Either you all dont realize how good Val will be or you lack logic. You have your Center. Now get that stud SF and solidify your core.

BPA

Draft Drummond and if he can't dominate at PF then he is a phenominal trade asset.

Finding a stud PG would be the ideal situation. Would love to see a pg work there way up the draft board.

[FluLikeSymptoms]

Ehh, I see the game differently. Zeller was obviously pumped up and was wary of the Wildcats as a team. I dont think Davis had as much to do with Zeller initially 'struggling' to get comfortable in the post as you say. Zeller eventually got Davis in foul trouble to boot.

In that game, Zeller and Davis were a wash... so why bring it up anyway? lol

You claim Anthony Davis seems to struggle holding his position when guys get physical against him, but that wasn't the case. Cody Zeller had excellent post position on Anthony Davis multiple times, and Davis didn't shy away from contact. He managed to alter Zeller's shots despite the physicality. Zeller was pretty big for Indiana in that win, but it came when Davis was on the bench.

It was the same in that UNC vs. UK match-up. Tyler Zeller couldn't make his entry catch or finish easily over Davis despite having position on him as well. Zeller shot 44.4% from the field that game against UK unlike his usual 50% FG%.

I told you my take on this. Cody Zeller helped get Davis in foul trouble and had no problem establishing position on Davis. This wasn't the only game I've seen this. If you get physical with him, you can get great position on Davis. That speaks to his lack or strength and base. The latter I would worry about the most.

Indiana ignored CZeller for most of that game, sometimes when he did have position but that one didn't represent either well.

Davis is #1 material because he looks like he'll be a dominant defender at the NBA level. Zeller could lose every match up with AD, forever and it wouldn't say much about Cody.

[mathgeek]

Perry Jones hasn't disappeared in games he just hasn't tried to play hard and hurt himself when Baylor faces unworthy opponents. I think PJ3 is a PF now in college but i don't see him sticking to that position when he gets to the NBA. His frame just isn't big enough. Also, if we do draft a PG there is no question in my mind Tony Wroten is the best PG in the next draft.

[Steely Reserve]

What's with this Drummond talk from you all? Either you all dont realize how good Val will be or you lack logic. You have your Center. Now get that stud SF and solidify your core.

BPA

Draft Drummond and if he can't dominate at PF then he is a phenominal trade asset.

Finding a stud PG would be the ideal situation. Would love to see a pg work there way up the draft board.

Drafting the BPA when he really isn't the BPA is about as dumb as it gets.

Drummond is a better player than MKG based on what?

I'll wait....

[Undefeated]

I told you my take on this. Cody Zeller helped get Davis in foul trouble and had no problem establishing position on Davis. This wasn't the only game I've seen this. If you get physical with him, you can get great position on Davis. That speaks to his lack or strength and base. The latter I would worry about the most.

Fact is, even when guys get position on Anthony Davis, he's still able to alter or challenge their shots at the rim. His opponent has been shooting at a much lower FG% whenever they're up against him which is all needs to be said about his defense. If you don't think an 18 year old can strengthen his base, you're out to lunch there.

[Steely Reserve]

I told you my take on this. Cody Zeller helped get Davis in foul trouble and had no problem establishing position on Davis. This wasn't the only game I've seen this. If you get physical with him, you can get great position on Davis. That speaks to his lack or strength and base. The latter I would worry about the most.

Fact is, even when guys get position on Anthony Davis, he's still able to alter or challenge their shots at the rim. His opponent has been shooting at a much lower FG% whenever they're up against him which is all needs to be said about his defense. If you don't think an 18 year old can strengthen his base, you're out to lunch there.

He's always the tallest prospect on the court playing with an isanely talented roster.

Davis has not been that impressive to me. The adulations usehered his way are premature. MKG looks to be the best NBA prospect on a team thats full of them. If anything, MKG is the one player who's skill is held back the most playing on that stacked squad.

January is coming, its time to get serious about this scouting stuff. MKG > Davis

[WhatsaTDot]

Did MKG revamp his jumpshot yet?

[S.W.A.N]

What's with this Drummond talk from you all? Either you all dont realize how good Val will be or you lack logic. You have your Center. Now get that stud SF and solidify your core.

BPA

Draft Drummond and if he can't dominate at PF then he is a phenominal trade asset.

Finding a stud PG would be the ideal situation. Would love to see a pg work there way up the draft board.

Drafting the BPA when he really isn't the BPA is about as dumb as it gets.

Drummond is a better player than MKG based on what?

I'll wait....

lol come on now.

Drummond has the most upside in this draft. He can be a monster...

MKG is better than him right now but that doesn't mean anything when it comes draft time.

Drummond is a special athlete, at 6'11 270 he is the arguably fastest player on his team (thats coming from his coaches) and could be the next howard or shaq. Its still early in the season and we will have a much better idea of his potential by tournament time

MKG could still end up being the best prospect in the draft but in a league void of talent at the 5 spot. Drummond is going to have huge value


And a Drummond Val front court could be absolutely dominant. Drummond in the low post Val in the high post bring in a good pick and roll point gaurd.