2014 NBA Draft Prospects Thread #5 | Raps picking 20th

HolyMage110 · Post #121 » by **HolyMage110** » Fri May 23, 2014 5:47 pm

Risk101 wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/469893713209356290[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/chadfordinsider/status/469895066543063040[/tweet]

wiggins to the bucks

seanshan7 · Post #122 » by **seanshan7** » Fri May 23, 2014 5:48 pm

Andrew Wiggins

Scout 1: Don’t trust his shot or his ball skills. Can’t go left. There is no “**** you” to him. Kobe’s like, “**** you, I’m better than you.” Where was that? I think he is a content player. That’s not Bill Self’s fault — he didn’t tell him not to shoot.

He can be your third-best player, but not your best. Say he goes to Orlando. What’s he going to do as an offensive player? Shoot them to more wins? He has one of the best second/third jumps I’ve ever seen and he’ll have some “**** … look at that” moments. But that’s not his personality.

He can be an elite defender. He can guard 1-3s.

Wiggins has offensive holes in his game — no dribble, no pass, streaky shooter. His sex appeal is only his athleticism. I’m not saying he’s one of these athletes that comes into the league and doesn’t know how to play basketball, but he’s behind the other three guys on my board.

Scout 2: I think in the draft, if Embiid is healthy, Wiggins goes no. 3. He will be lost in an NBA half-court offense. He is great in transition, but he has no ball skills. All right hand, no idea what to do without the ball. He struggles with confidence. He actually reminds me more of Gerald Green than any of these studs he’s compared to.

He’s an erratic shooter and has no plan when attacking the rim. He will be easy to coach against with his limited game right now. Needs to find out what playing hard is. He tries hard, but I don’t see that second gear. He would scare me as your franchise’s no. 1 pick, with all the stuff that will go along with being no. 1 in this class. Is he really a face of the franchise?

Defensively he can be a stopper right away. A lot of these coaches want to break down these young guys and limit their minutes because they don’t trust them defensively. With him you can play him the minutes you need to develop him because, defensively, he’s already there.

Scout 3: In general, interesting kid. In fairness to him he played in a very restricted system at Kansas. All interchangeable parts with designated spots, a lot of structure. When he got the ball, there wasn’t a lot of room to create. He didn’t force things, dealt with it well, but sometimes it hurt his rep. Not anywhere near ready, mentally, to take things over, which is unfair to say at this stage. Game isn’t to the level of his athleticism. Humble, coachable, a positive kid, all good things.

Needs go-to moves. He doesn’t have them yet. He has a high dribble. This is normal for a kid his age. Even Kobe and T-Mac struggled out of high school with go-to moves.

He needs to add a whole bunch of other stuff to be the scorer people think he can be. He needs to forget shooting 3s. His shot isn’t great, but it isn’t broken. It’s not as bad as Kidd-Gilchrist where you say, “Where do we start?”

Great natural movement. An NBA coach can still play him right away because he can defend. He defends the wings in isolation, which is extremely valuable. Physically he can do this right away.

Russillo: Agree with Scout 3.

This one is tough. I’ve changed my mind about him versus Parker a few times this season. He isn’t close to being as polished as Parker is on offense. So, the simple solution is to take Parker, right? Nope, it doesn’t work that way.

Athletically, he is off the charts, but it doesn’t do much for you if you can’t dribble. Right now, he can’t. The times he does get free on a drive, he doesn’t finish nearly as much as he should. It’s baffling; he gets by his man, beats the help, and then screws up the layup.

His personality comes off as timid. It’s not what you want from a guy that is supposed to be your leading scorer in a few years. It is worth mentioning that he played on a team that had two other scorers in Wayne Selden and Perry Ellis, plus the emergence of Embiid and Naadir Tharpe, who was supposed to be a point guard. There weren’t many shots to go around and he still dropped 17 ppg.

When LaMarcus Aldridge was coming out of Texas, I heard a lot of the same stuff: “timid” “doesn’t want it,” etc. I’d go back and look at the tape, and it was obvious Aldridge was playing with selfish guards who didn’t get him the ball, so it’s something to think about. I honestly have no idea if Wiggins is just a great athlete with a passive personality, or the next Tracy McGrady.

The thing about the draft that drives fans crazy is when a GM takes someone based on potential, but think about it this way: Sure, you could take a guy who just finished his junior year and put up big numbers. But the reason teams reach is because they need a star in this league. It’s why the Parker-Wiggins debate is frustrating for people. “If Parker is better, why take Wiggins?” It’s easy. Every front office will ask themselves the same question on draft night: “Can this guy grow, become an All-Star in our league?” If the answer is even close to a yes, the team will go for it. Role players aren’t winning you anything.

check link for scouting on Embiid, Parker, n Randle
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/ryen-russillos-nba-draft-confidential-real-scouts-on-wiggins-randle-embiid-and-parker/

SkywalkerAC · Post #123 » by **SkywalkerAC** » Fri May 23, 2014 5:50 pm

HolyMage110 wrote:
Risk101 wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/469893713209356290[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/chadfordinsider/status/469895066543063040[/tweet]

wiggins to the bucks

Even better from a Raptors perspective, no? Of course any team will be wary of inheriting the Blazers' curse.

kidr1211 · Post #124 » by **kidr1211** » Fri May 23, 2014 5:53 pm

I honestly would take Embiid with the #1 pick. I think him and maybe exum (because i just don't know a lot about him) are the only franchise talents in the draft.

joseph235 · Post #125 » by **joseph235** » Fri May 23, 2014 5:53 pm

"Not enough **** you". A scout said that, really.

seanshan7 · Post #126 » by **seanshan7** » Fri May 23, 2014 5:58 pm

Do you guys think Wiggins can be a superstar type player? hearing the scout worries me.

Sonrisen · Post #127 » by **Sonrisen** » Fri May 23, 2014 5:59 pm

Roland Brice wrote:Early wouldn't be a bad pick by any means, although I prefer others over him. He's one of the most experienced, athletic players available and his length isn't bad either at 6'7" with a 6'11" wingspan. He shot 58% on 2's and 38% on 3's this season while also grabbing 6 rebounds and almost getting 1 steal/block per game. However, he has shortcomings defensively and at this point I'm not sure he can add that to his game unless that's all he's asked to do.

He scored 31 on James Young of Kentucky while holding Young to only 13. Not sure where he got the "poor defender" label. :dontknow:

Risk101 · Post #128 » by **Risk101** » Fri May 23, 2014 6:03 pm

SkywalkerAC wrote:
HolyMage110 wrote:
Risk101 wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/469893713209356290[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/chadfordinsider/status/469895066543063040[/tweet]

wiggins to the bucks

Even better from a Raptors perspective, no? Of course any team will be wary of inheriting the Blazers' curse.

If he produces for the Bucks as he should he won't be available to any team for atleast 6 years. Bucks will match any offers and retain him. He will be locked up.

Roland Brice · Post #129 » by **Roland Brice** » Fri May 23, 2014 6:15 pm

Sonrisen wrote:
Roland Brice wrote:Early wouldn't be a bad pick by any means, although I prefer others over him. He's one of the most experienced, athletic players available and his length isn't bad either at 6'7" with a 6'11" wingspan. He shot 58% on 2's and 38% on 3's this season while also grabbing 6 rebounds and almost getting 1 steal/block per game. However, he has shortcomings defensively and at this point I'm not sure he can add that to his game unless that's all he's asked to do.

He scored 31 on James Young of Kentucky while holding Young to only 13. Not sure where he got the "poor defender" label.

Because he's a weak defender, watch him play. James Young wasn't an offensive juggernaut at KU, he was mostly a spot up shooter.

VinBaker6 · Post #130 » by **VinBaker6** » Fri May 23, 2014 6:29 pm

I agree with those Grantland scouts. Wiggins isn't gonna be anything until his 3-4th year. His defense is way ahead of his offense. Just personally not a big fan of his offensive game. Ridiculously raw.

I do however, love Embiid. If the back isn't an issue, then he has to go number 1. He's heads and shoulders above the rest. An elite two center in his prime is almost unheard of.

Mark_83 · Post #131 » by **Mark_83** » Fri May 23, 2014 6:39 pm

A new batch of highlight clips I stumbled across. I was not that impressed by Exum before, but he's far more athletic than I imagined, watching him get up in the air and dunk it in traffic in these clips. I can see the Penny comparisons now.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udv_mlTycf0[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqCIAEczDug[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OI-92Zxce6g[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=genmjQl8vx8[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgKDPE8X5IM[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYKw3F_PxnI[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcI8R8yFfRc[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDSO5ILnLUY[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyxFmRhKycc[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fpbKYyEOiE[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zc2bZ2yA1Vw[/youtube]

Kevin Willis · Post #132 » by **Kevin Willis** » Fri May 23, 2014 7:07 pm

I was worried about McBuckets because of Adam Morrison and the guy from Utah (forgot his name). But he is deceptively athletic so you can teach defense (SF) and he can just score. Like Harden who put up decent numbers in the combine and made people realize he just isn't a chubby scorer. McBuckets and Porzingis are perfect compliments although the only way that happens is if Chicago drafts them both.

Hell he is better than Kapono, Miller, R. Lewis (current version). Dirk-Lite.

Sonrisen · Post #133 » by **Sonrisen** » Fri May 23, 2014 7:10 pm

Roland Brice wrote:
Sonrisen wrote:
Roland Brice wrote:Early wouldn't be a bad pick by any means, although I prefer others over him. He's one of the most experienced, athletic players available and his length isn't bad either at 6'7" with a 6'11" wingspan. He shot 58% on 2's and 38% on 3's this season while also grabbing 6 rebounds and almost getting 1 steal/block per game. However, he has shortcomings defensively and at this point I'm not sure he can add that to his game unless that's all he's asked to do.

He scored 31 on James Young of Kentucky while holding Young to only 13. Not sure where he got the "poor defender" label.

Because he's a weak defender, watch him play. James Young wasn't an offensive juggernaut at KU, he was mostly a spot up shooter.

UK, KU is Kansas. yet Young is projected to go higher thasn Early. I think Early can be a better Kawhi Leonard.

Dr Comeback · Post #134 » by **Dr Comeback** » Fri May 23, 2014 7:15 pm

tms wrote:
Dr Comeback wrote:I don't know how else to say it, he's horrific, James Harden bad really.

wasnt Harden supposed to be a lock-down defender when he came out?! these draft sites have been wrong so many times i wanna puke lol

What it should tell you is about the massive gulf between defending in the NCAA and defending in the NBA. Way more ground to cover greater demand on conditioning.

Harden was a good defender at ASU, and he was decent at OKC, but his conditioning is the real problem, he's body fat was a little high at the combine, he's just not in good enough condition to be an elite two way player.

for_tdot · Post #135 » by **for_tdot** » Fri May 23, 2014 7:20 pm

tms wrote:
Roland Brice wrote:
tms wrote:
wasnt Harden supposed to be a lock-down defender when he came out?! these draft sites have been wrong so many times i wanna puke lol

Lockdown defender and the name James Harden have never been associated terms as far as I can remember.

only his "Intangibles" are higher. his Defense > his Potential lol

He actually looks way better without the beard.

for_tdot · Post #136 » by **for_tdot** » Fri May 23, 2014 7:21 pm

Mark_83 wrote:A new batch of highlight clips I stumbled across. I was not that impressed by Exum before, but he's far more athletic than I imagined, watching him get up in the air and dunk it in traffic in these clips. I can see the Penny comparisons now.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udv_mlTycf0[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqCIAEczDug[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OI-92Zxce6g[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=genmjQl8vx8[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgKDPE8X5IM[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYKw3F_PxnI[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcI8R8yFfRc[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDSO5ILnLUY[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyxFmRhKycc[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyxFmRhKycc[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fpbKYyEOiE[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zc2bZ2yA1Vw[/youtube]

Do you think that we could get a top pick via trade and draft him?

Risk101 · Post #137 » by **Risk101** » Fri May 23, 2014 7:31 pm

Sonrisen wrote:
Roland Brice wrote:
Sonrisen wrote:
He scored 31 on James Young of Kentucky while holding Young to only 13. Not sure where he got the "poor defender" label.

Because he's a weak defender, watch him play. James Young wasn't an offensive juggernaut at KU, he was mostly a spot up shooter.

UK, KU is Kansas. yet Young is projected to go higher thasn Early. I think Early can be a better Kawhi Leonard.

Kawhi is a hard player to replicate due to his length and defensive mindset. If Early could be half the player Kawhi is that would be a great pick but I highly doubt it. Kahwi is a superior defender and Early will be average at best.

Dr Comeback · Post #138 » by **Dr Comeback** » Fri May 23, 2014 7:32 pm

Undefeated wrote:
Dr Comeback wrote:Throughout his entire year at Duke he showed a really concerning combo of bad fundamentals, poor condition,m lateral quickness, and inconsistent effort.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6-Xpc2LKxg[/youtube]

The Good

5:29 - Jabari with the great help and rejection rotating off of Tarczewski to erase Hood’s mistake after biting on the pump fake.

7:52 - Hood “dies on the pick” forcing Jabari to step up and contain the ball. RHJ tries to get through the gap by splitting the hedge, but Jabari’s quick hands results in a clean strip.

8:45 - Cook goes under the ball screen and Jabari does a great job of discouraging and stopping the drive by showing his body directly in front of McConnell after he turns the corner coming off the screen. McConnell hits Ashley on the pop and he makes an unlikely 3-pointer. Good initial defense by Jabari to stop the drive.

23:32 - Another high ball screen action ran by 'Zona. This time the on-ball defender goes over the top of the screen. Jabari once again sits back to stop the ball-handler from driving down the “highway” after turning the corner. Because he’s low in his defensive stance with knees bent, chest up and back straight ready to move he forces McConnell to retreat his dribble taking away any gaps/seams that McConnell thought he might have. Excellent pick-&-roll defense.

27:55 - Jabari does a great job of fronting the post and forcing Mayes to over throwing the high arcing entry pass resulting in a turnover.

40:17 - Amazing recovery to get the block from behind on Tarczewski.

The Bad

4:43 - Poor defensive awareness from Jabari not hedging/stunting to buy Thornton time to recover off the back screen.

34:20 - Poor gamble to jump the passing lane for an improbable steal.

1:09:10 - Another poor gamble to jump the passing lane this time out of the 2-3 zone defense.

The Meh

9:16 - McConnell with the nasty hesitation and inside-out on Jabari. Because Jabari gets outside of his base of support with most of his weight on his left leg thinking initially McConnell was attacking baseline, but a bounce off and inside-out dribble gets Jabari off-balanced unable to change directions to recover back on the ball. Doesn’t have the explosive second bounce to contest Ashley.

19:28 - Dawkins abandons Gordon to double the ball which means Jabari needs to rotate over to Gordon and Matt Jones sinks down to cover Ashley. Jabari is a split second late rotating over giving up a dunk to Gordon.

20:00 - Zona runs a high middle pick-and-roll. Jones goes under the ball screen with Jabari sitting back/“up to touch” with the screen to prevent the drive once McConnell comes off the screen. Jabari is late to recover giving up the wide open mid-range jumper to Ashley that barely goes in.

48:58 - Jabari coming over from the weakside to contest RHJ. Doesn't time correctly jumping too early and gets beat by RHJ for the reverse.

There were more good than bad defensive plays from Jabari this game. For a sieve you'd expect more, but we saw otherwise. You're really stretching it if you think Jabari is as bad as Harden defensively. I feel like too many people are basing their analysis on DX's draft video which is where all this Jabari is bad defensively is coming from. I'll breakdown the game against Clemson and 'Cuse tmr.

I don't know what to say man.

1. Those blocks he's getting on the weak side are NOT NBA plays, he isn't going to be rejecting NBA athletes at the rim, he's not going to be an effective rim protector.

2. 8:45 he has to get back to his man, he wasn't even close poor effort.

3.most of the "meh" stuff is bad, He's supposed to be an NBA 3, you aren't supposed to get completely blown by lunging on a McConnell (non nba athlete) in and out move.

he's late on simple rotations back on pick and rolls with Ashley

You don't need draftexporess videos to see this you watch him over the course of the year.

also

You can't forget you are PROJECTING. He isn't playing against NBA players and he gets burned way too often, Coach K went offense-defense for him against Mercer. What happens against NBA talent?

He isn't good, at all.

Rapsobsessed7 · Post #139 » by **Rapsobsessed7** » Fri May 23, 2014 7:52 pm

DG88 wrote:
Rapsobsessed7 wrote:Capela is growing on me. Walking away with Capela & Inglis would be great.

A shot blocking big with potential and a big wing who can defend. Would be a great haul.

Think you have to move up to #27-30 range to get Inglis

Post #140 » by **Undefeated** » Fri May 23, 2014 7:53 pm

Dr Comeback wrote:1. Those blocks he's getting on the weak side are NOT NBA plays, he isn't going to be rejecting NBA athletes at the rim, he's not going to be an effective rim protector.

What is an NBA play then? Because what it shows is great anticipatory skills to time his blocks. But he doesn't need to be rejecting shots at the rim to be an effective rim protector. Just by getting his body in the air and act as an obstacle/"talling up" is enough to force the guy into a miss because they'll have to contort their body around the obstacle.

2. 8:45 he has to get back to his man, he wasn't even close poor effort.

Brandon Ashley is a poor outside shooter so there's no need to close out. He can sag off of a poor shooter.

3.most of the "meh" stuff is bad, He's supposed to be an NBA 3, you aren't supposed to get completely blown by lunging on a McConnell (non nba athlete) in and out move.

That's more so of him gambling which I said when he got outside of his base of support; shoulders over knees. When he doesn't get gamble or react to the ball rather focuses more so on anticipating and keeping the ball outside the paint he does all right. 23:32 is a perfect example of him forcing McConnell retreating his dribble being disciplined and "living low".

You don't need draftexporess videos to see this you watch him over the course of the year.

Then show me plays of Jabari getting exposed defensively because I know what I saw. I've done my part to show that he isn't as bad/pylon defensively despite his reputation. Now, I'm not insinuating he's a good defender either because of his effort level and sometimes he loses awareness of his man by focusing on the ball too much. If you want an example of a bad defender watch Hood.