Arthur: Lowry didn't want to re-sign here if Casey retained

[albinorap]

Starting to dislike lowry

[jeffya2]

Most all stars seem to have a chip, it's part of what drives them

[trick]

Most all stars seem to have a chip, it's part of what drives them

That's fine. But if that chip is toxic to the team, they can GTFO.
Lowry's issues are well known, and I thought when he, Casey and Ujiri had that "talk" and he displayed his game develop during 13-14 I thought Lowry has finally turned over a new leaf. But if he's going to back to his "me-against-the-world" ways again, then screw it and trade him for all I care.

[bruh759]

I don't think Lowry is a big fan of coaches in general.

Seems like a running theme. Lowry just needs to play basketball and not focus on this ****. He was driven out of Houston for similar issues.

Nooo bruh look in the mirror bruh blessed bruh

[DrCoach]

Most all stars seem to have a chip, it's part of what drives them

The only time slowly was an AllStar was under Casey

[carlosey]

Lowry basically gave enough of an excuse for Casey to remain the teams coach. This issue has been brewing internally for a while and this could explain why Masai so quickly sided with Casey. How are you going to be able to produce results when your players are toxic, specially your main all star who came off a contract year? If you want to blame anyone for the retention of Casey is lowry.

[ForeverTFC]

Lowry basically gave enough of an excuse for Casey to remain the teams coach. This issue has been brewing internally for a while and this could explain why Masai so quickly sided with Casey. How are you going to be able to produce results when your players are toxic, specially your main all star who came off a contract year? If you want to blame anyone for the retention of Casey is lowry.

Said this in another thread, but the way Lowry is going about this may cost us, and him.

Yes, we all want Casey fired. But remember that we need to get a coach to replace him. What coach with options is going to look at our situation with a leader who publicly goes against, and butts heads with, the coach and chooses it over another?

[Strategist1]

I thought Lowry was maturing...but duhhh.. Lowry has a problem with his coach again.. seems to be a pattern with him... so I side with Casey.

[WildWolfdog]

Lol wow, I can't believe some of the people here. Lowry sucked since the All-Star break, fine. But Casey has sucked for 2 years. The Raptors had a great run with Lowry IN SPITE of Casey. What happened to the Raps when Lowry was not playing? Did they suddenly catch fire? No - they didn't. Did Casey suddenly get better? No, no he didn't.

All this "coach killer" crap is media base BS. It's exactly the same type of bull that Kessel gets. "Out of shape, coach killer" - when in fact Kessel is one of the most in shape players on the Leafs according to most reports. And he out skated Seguin at the All-Star game.

I can't believe how some people buy in to all the stuff the media feeds us and then run out star players ... seriously, wow.

Hit the nail on the head here. The Raptors don't even make the playoffs without Lowry playing like he did over the last two seasons. He held up his mediocre teammates and terrible coach (on a team that played absolutely no defense and had a disorganized free for all offense) until the weight of all that finally got to him. As we saw down the stretch and in the playoffs, the Raptors without All-Star Lowry was not a pretty sight at all.

Exactly! People have a short memory when it's something good - but they're more than willing to live with mediocrity forever. "But that player who can't score or rebound or make plays, he puts his heart on his sleeve. Look at the way he tries so hard to jump". Nothing against those players, but those are role players - not core structures to build around.

Also, a lot of star players have their vices (if it's wife beating and murder, that's completely different and intolerable) - but he pouts, so what? Maybe he has higher expectations lol

[TheGoodDoctor]

Wait...people are upset that Lowry doesn't like Casey?!

Isn't that the pot calling the kettle black?

So 98% of this board talks constant sh*t about Casey inability to coach but when a guy who actually plays professionally for that inept coach is frustrated we say something is wrong with him???

You do realize this is his job right??? This is like you hating your boss because he's a complete idiot that is running the company into the ground because he stubbornly believes his way makes sense meanwhile the company is headed to bankruptcy. But when you point that out we say you just have an attitude problem and the solution is to fire you yet you're best producing employee his company has. Yeah that should get things back on track!

Great reasoning boys, you guys don't miss a beat.

[curryking3]

Wait...people are upset that Lowry doesn't like Casey?!

Isn't that the pot calling the kettle black?

So 98% of this board talks constant sh*t about Casey inability to coach but when a guy who actually plays professionally for that inept coach is frustrated we say something is wrong with him???

You do realize this is his job right??? This is like you hating your boss because he's a complete idiot that is running the company into the ground because he stubbornly believes his way makes sense meanwhile the company is headed to bankruptcy. But when you point that out we say you just have an attitude problem and the solution is to fire you yet you're best producing employee his company has. Yeah that should get things back on track!

Great reasoning boys, you guys don't miss a beat.

I agree with all of what you say here.

Except in the way that it seemed like Lowry quit on the team.

I understand disagreeing, or even hating your coach.

But I cannot respect a player professionally when he acts to hurt the team. What he did was unprofessional. Hate your team and coach all you want, but you got a job to do on the floor. And he didn't even do that.

In spite of Casey's idiotness, and I want a different coach too, the other parts of the team still have to try their best to do their jobs.

There is a big difference between hating your coach, and sabotaging your team's playoffs chances, no matter how slim they were to begin with a few weeks ago.

[TheGoodDoctor]

Wait...people are upset that Lowry doesn't like Casey?!

Isn't that the pot calling the kettle black?

So 98% of this board talks constant sh*t about Casey inability to coach but when a guy who actually plays professionally for that inept coach is frustrated we say something is wrong with him???

You do realize this is his job right??? This is like you hating your boss because he's a complete idiot that is running the company into the ground because he stubbornly believes his way makes sense meanwhile the company is headed to bankruptcy. But when you point that out we say you just have an attitude problem and the solution is to fire you yet you're best producing employee his company has. Yeah that should get things back on track!

Great reasoning boys, you guys don't miss a beat.

I agree with all of what you say here.

Except in the way that it seemed like Lowry quit on the team.

I understand disagreeing, or even hating your coach.

But I cannot respect a player professionally when he acts to hurt the team. What he did was unprofessional. Hate your team and coach all you want, but you got a job to do on the floor. And he didn't even do that.

In spite of Casey's idiotness, and I want a different coach too, the other parts of the team still have to try their best to do their jobs.

There is a big difference between hating your coach, and sabotaging your team's playoffs chances, no matter how slim they were to begin with a few weeks ago.

Hey I can agree with that.

But people forget sometimes these guys are human and have regular emotions just like any of us.

While I do think he should be busting his @ss off no matter what and trying to lead by example if he's team has given up to encourage them to see and follow ala Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant (which is why we love those guys). It's much easier to say do that than to experience what they're going through...

Put yourself in his shoes.

Imagine you got a crappy coach telling your team to run completely ineffective plays and putting you in line ups with guys you shouldn't be on the court with you if you really want to win this game ie/ a couple more guys that play your position (Lou & GV) plus back up bigs for long stretches. Now couple that with taken a pounding from the opposing line up and looking around at your teammates who seem to quit after the first sign of difficulty when you push them all year. ALSO knowing that many of them won't be here next year so probably don't really care how it turns out.

That would wear on you play after play, minute after minute....you have to incredibly mentally strong when it feels like you're not only up against the opposing team but your own. You can't play all the other 4 positions for them at once and in reality you may be the leader but you're also not Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant or LeBron James....you're Kyle Lowry and you're going to need the team to want as bad as you do too and since you don't have the ability to completely take over the game like the greats you're going to need good coaching to show you how to get back in it...

I know we have short term memories here but say what you want but Lowry out of all the players on roster over the past few years has shown the most desire to win and has arguably fought the hardest for the longest period of time. This team would have an entirely different identity if they ALL had the fire and feistiness Lowry has, imagine the huge difference...it would be night and day.

[LLJ]

While I do think he should be busting his @ss off no matter what and trying to lead by example if he's team has given up to encourage them to see and follow ala Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant (which is why we love those guys). It's much easier to say do that than to experience what they're going through...

.

Even Kobe has acted out in a crucial playoff series. That 2006 first round Game 7 vs the Suns a few years back where Kobe was pouting after being criticized the previous game by basically everyone. His "stopped shooting" game. Kobe was passive and took only 3 shots in the second half where the Suns made their run and blew the game open. And everyone said Kobe did it to prove a point, that they couldn't win if he didn't shoot.

The media got mad and fans called for his head, just like they are doing with Lowry now. And unlike Lowry, Kobe was HEALTHY. Sure, Kobe was a bigger talent than Lowry is now, but Lowry IS the guy who's the reason we had two 48 win seasons in the first place. He's earned at least a chance to stumble badly and still get a reprieve.

Trading Lowry now would also be trading low. At the very least let him get a chance to build up his value again before talk of trading him. This city has an unhealthy obsession with tearing down great talents until their value is so low we can't get anything good for them (or forcing the GM's hand to trade them at their lowest), and then we get ripped off when we deal them away for crap. Classic knee jerk reactionism.

[ScissorMeXerxes]

While I do think he should be busting his @ss off no matter what and trying to lead by example if he's team has given up to encourage them to see and follow ala Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant (which is why we love those guys). It's much easier to say do that than to experience what they're going through...

.

Even Kobe has acted out in a crucial playoff series. That 2006 first round Game 7 vs the Suns a few years back where Kobe was pouting after being criticized the previous game by basically everyone. His "stopped shooting" game. Kobe was passive and took only 3 shots in the second half where the Suns made their run and blew the game open. And everyone said Kobe did it to prove a point, that they couldn't win if he didn't shoot.

The media got mad and fans called for his head, just like they are doing with Lowry now. And unlike Lowry, Kobe was HEALTHY. Sure, Kobe was a bigger talent than Lowry is now, but Lowry IS the guy who's the reason we had two 48 win seasons in the first place. He's earned at least a chance to stumble badly and still get a reprieve.

Trading Lowry now would also be trading low. At the very least let him get a chance to build up his value again before talk of trading him. This city has an unhealthy obsession with tearing down great talents until their value is so low we can't get anything good for them (or forcing the GM's hand to trade them at their lowest), and then we get ripped off when we deal them away for crap. Classic knee jerk reactionism.

We're no different than any other city when it comes to fans and media. Who have we run out of town? VC? I don't hold a grudge with VC at all he was my favourite player, but he was definitely complicit in his own demise here. Lowry's nosedive was much more than nagging injuries. However well he or his team does in the future I can never trust that at any moment things won't collapse. Until we get a plausible reason why he forgot how to play basketball how can we not be wary of him going forward.

[LLJ]

We're no different than any other city when it comes to fans and media. Who have we run out of town? VC? I don't hold a grudge with VC at all he was my favourite player, but he was definitely complicit in his own demise here. Lowry's nosedive was much more than nagging injuries. However well he or his team does in the future I can never trust that at any moment things won't collapse. Until we get a plausible reason why he forgot how to play basketball how can we not be wary of him going forward.

Don't forget the anti-Bosh sentiment as well, although most of it came after he spurned us. But a lot of people legitimately thought he quit on us when he was "injured" late that season and we missed the playoffs by like 1 or 2 games. Also TJ, although I believe TJ would have been traded regardless of media backlash. The guy was a walking time bomb health wise, that was the biggest reason.

I get that Lowry is not someone you can "trust". But that's a risk you take going forward. We are not in a position to be picky here about talents. DIrk and Duncan "reliable AND talented" types are not the norm, they are the exception. Most other talents have some kind of mercurial issue or another. I get that Lowry is an unstable talent and it would be unwise to ignore his history, but getting rid of him NOW is just a really bad idea. If he tanks next season again, then I might be persuaded to trade him even while his value is low, but we have to allow him an opportunity to build up his value again.

I'd rather have a talented team of knuckleheads than a less talented team of character guys, if I had to pick between the two choices. I know as fans that it's off-putting to see guys not behave or represent us in a dignified and honorable manner, but as fans we're always complaining about not enough talent and we need to allow for some behavioural hurdles in order to amass a good collection of talent, even if there may be years where they disappoint you.

[ScissorMeXerxes]

We're no different than any other city when it comes to fans and media. Who have we run out of town? VC? I don't hold a grudge with VC at all he was my favourite player, but he was definitely complicit in his own demise here. Lowry's nosedive was much more than nagging injuries. However well he or his team does in the future I can never trust that at any moment things won't collapse. Until we get a plausible reason why he forgot how to play basketball how can we not be wary of him going forward.

Don't forget the anti-Bosh sentiment as well, although most of it came after he spurned us. But a lot of people legitimately thought he quit on us when he was "injured" late that season and we missed the playoffs by like 1 or 2 games. Also TJ, although I believe TJ would have been traded regardless of media backlash. The guy was a walking time bomb health wise, that was the biggest reason.

I get that Lowry is not someone you can "trust". But that's a risk you take going forward. We are not in a position to be picky here about talents. DIrk and Duncan "reliable AND talented" types are not the norm, they are the exception. Most other talents have some kind of mercurial issue or another. I get that Lowry is an unstable talent and it would be unwise to ignore his history, but getting rid of him NOW is just a really bad idea. If he tanks next season again, then I might be persuaded to trade him even while his value is low, but we have to allow him an opportunity to build up his value again.

I'd rather have a talented team of knuckleheads than a less talented team of character guys, if I had to pick between the two choices. I know as fans that it's off-putting to see guys not behave or represent us in a dignified and honorable manner, but as fans we're always complaining about not enough talent and we need to allow for some behavioural hurdles in order to amass a good collection of talent, even if there may be years where they disappoint you.

That's fair, well argued.

[Tacoma]

Lowry basically gave enough of an excuse for Casey to remain the teams coach. This issue has been brewing internally for a while and this could explain why Masai so quickly sided with Casey. How are you going to be able to produce results when your players are toxic, specially your main all star who came off a contract year? If you want to blame anyone for the retention of Casey is lowry.

I don't buy this at all. Lowry was a FA and Casey was up for renewal, so Masai had options on both. He has been hammering to anyone and everyone about the importance of team chemistry and yet decided to bid $48M to retain Lowry and then re-signed Casey. So if this issue has been "brewing internally for a while," then Masai was either clueless or a liar about the high importance of team chemistry.

I said last year here about Lowry that a leopard cannot change its spots. Lowry's issues were known but I said he was keeping his attitude in check in a contract year because he wants to be paid. I even said his agent was probably calling him every week to remind to keep his trap shut. So if Masai believed that Lowry would change his stripes and made peace with Casey, then he's a fool.

Talk about fool, if your claim that "Lowry basically gave enough of an excuse for Casey to remain the teams [sic] coach" is true, then that's even more foolish. A GM has a mandate to get value for money and giving Casey a 3-yr contract to show Lowry he sided with Casey is certainly contrary to that mandate. The only reason Masai re-signed Casey was because he thought Casey was best to do the job. What Lowry did or didn't do is irrelevant to Masai's decision to re-sign Casey.

[JYD]

I want them both out, even if we take a step back DC has stunted JV. Lowry ain't gonna work here either, not in his current role. He won't listen to coaches, he needs to be behind a better peer who won't hesitate to smack him down for his attitude. I don't want to dump him 10 cents on the dollar either but we need to be active in finding him a new home and move ahead with a younger core that can grow together, with higher potential.

[Kenyon009]

It's so seemingly obvious the raptors need to trade Lowry, Derozan, and fire Casey. Out of all of them Derozan should be the first to go he's probably past his peak and he could bring back the most due to his squeaky clean record.

Lowry is on a new deal and he could be traded down the line. Get a bidding war started over him and prolong the hell out of it. Get a desperate GM to overpay for him and then move on to next year hopefully younger and back on our defensive roots.

[highscore]

Wait...people are upset that Lowry doesn't like Casey?!

Yeah, this threw me off as well. It was also Lowry in free agency period, being honest about why he would make a decision to look elsewhere. Are we seriously upset with that? Casey is awful, and I don't blame him not wanting to play under him — especially since Casey has always favoured old man Calderon over him, frequently sliding Lowry to the bench while Jose started and closed out games.

I am with Lowry here, no question about it. **** Casey.