Masai and Bobby are Asleep at the Wheel

[Van_Trump]

I genuinely laughed when I read the thread title.

You realize this is what they do for a living right?

I'm glad the OP is not our GM.

[ash_k]

Losing Kawhi for nothing: fine
Losing Green for nothing: fine
Losing Gasol for nothing: ok ok (for a pipedream)
Losing Serge for nothing: unacceptable (for a pipedream)

Losing 4 starters for nothing in 2 years for nothing: unseen before
Now potentially losing Norm and Kyle for nothing. Making it 6 starters lost for nothing : FIREABLE OFFENSE. This is not the NFL.

Still 9 days to go to the trade deadline.

[Tor_Raps]

I have repeated that I would want no one else as our management than these guys but I really hope we get a clear direction we're going in at this trade deadline. Our center position has literally taken us from the 2nd best record last season to a .500 team this season.

Either trade Lowry or add the impact C that you let get away this offseason. Being in the middle sucks so I will wait until the trade deadline to come to any conclusion.

[Slade3]

That's the same reality the Heat have come to, there is no plan B.

Yes, but it's the Front Office's job to have a plan B. Not having one means you failed at protecting your investment.

What makes you think that Plan B has to get done during the season and not in the offseason??

This season was always going to be a wash or throwaway season. Nothing we were going to do this year was going to impact the capspace on future years, and that was the right call to make, with or without Giannis signing his deal.

Plan B will be executed after the season is done.

How do you know there is a plan B after the season?

And if you have to waste a whole season to make moves, then there was no plan B.

[DelAbbot]

Losing Kawhi for nothing: fine
Losing Green for nothing: fine
Losing Gasol for nothing: ok ok (for a pipedream)
Losing Serge for nothing: unacceptable (for a pipedream)

Losing 4 starters for nothing in 2 years for nothing: unseen before
Now potentially losing Norm and Kyle for nothing. Making it 6 starters lost for nothing : FIREABLE OFFENSE. This is not the NFL.

Still 9 days to go to the trade deadline.

We didn't lose them for nothing. We used them for championship.

You could have not lose them for nothing, by trading them before their contract runs out, but then you lose championship and lose fantastic 2019/2020 season.

[ImaBeatDatAzz]

Ibakas exit really still stings and pisses me off. I mean the guy isn’t even playing well with the clippers and ty lue likes zubacs more anyways. I genially think ibaka fully regrets signing there. He was at his best with us and now he can’t even find good minutes on the clippers team and his stats compared to last year SUCKS

He is playing less minutes with clippers as a starter than he was with us as a 6/7th man off the bench. Went from 16ppg to 10, percentages are all lower. He regressed and is regretting it. Masai stoopid for thinking Giannis would leave, just like all these stooooopid franchises who keep trying to get/ask for beal when he has said numerous times that he ain’t going nowhere

[Johnny Bball]

The year after Kobe's achilles injury was both Nash and Gasol' final with the Lakers. From there until the 2016 off-season they took on no long term money because they were aiming to be players in free agency. Kobe was brought back on a huge contract basically to have an extended farewell and retire as a Laker. They were barely pretending to compete and instead made a bunch of excellent draft picks.

The 2016 off season was disastrous and led to a bunch of upheavel until they landed LeBron and then AD. Their draft record is overall outstanding in and out of the lottery and allowed them to construct the current version of their team.

Yeah, extended farewell, just like running it back after a championship and not blowing it up immediately. If you aren't going to admit the blatant hypocrisy, why even bother to respond. They did not blow it up right away, again, just another thing that's not true.

As for losing Kawhi and James staying... how is that not trolling if you can't admit it's not the same. How.

You're using the terminology of "blowing it up," not me. When Kobe gets hurt, Dwight Howard leaves and you have an injured Nash and one year left of Gasol there isn't much to "blow up." They clearly pivoted to a rebuild.

It's unfortunate you are attempting to deny how history actually played out in an attempt to call me a troll and slander me.

Slandering you? Lol. You're post is 100% disingenuous first as people other than I pointed out, pretending James staying and Kawhi leaving is the same, which you refused to address, then you pretend LA didn't effectively take a victory lap for two years with Kobe. That all that shows how LA is good but Toronto management is bad. And you tell me I'm denying history? Yeah, calling out hypocrisy or you revising history isn't slander.

Go ahead and think it's just because its' all on other people and call another mod. It's been going on for a while that it's everyone else's fault when you do this.

[Courtside]

The year after Kobe's achilles injury was both Nash and Gasol' final with the Lakers. From there until the 2016 off-season they took on no long term money because they were aiming to be players in free agency. Kobe was brought back on a huge contract basically to have an extended farewell and retire as a Laker. They were barely pretending to compete and instead made a bunch of excellent draft picks.

The 2016 off season was disastrous and led to a bunch of upheavel until they landed LeBron and then AD. Their draft record is overall outstanding in and out of the lottery and allowed them to construct the current version of their team.

Yeah, extended farewell, just like running it back after a championship and not blowing it up immediately. If you aren't going to admit the blatant hypocrisy, why even bother to respond. They did not blow it up right away, again, just another thing that's not true.

As for losing Kawhi and James staying... how is that not trolling if you can't admit it's not the same. How.

You're using the terminology of "blowing it up," not me. When Kobe gets hurt, Dwight Howard leaves and you have an injured Nash and one year left of Gasol there isn't much to "blow up." They clearly pivoted to a rebuild.

It's unfortunate you are attempting to deny how history actually played out in an attempt to call me a troll and slander me.

It's pretty easy to call you a troll when that has been your primary way to contribute to this forum for years. You want people to not call you that or "slander" you? That's easy - be a better poster.

[C_Money]

players have to want to play for Toronto, and they dont. Also, any team with LeBron can win any game, no matter whos on it.

but we do need to trade Patrick McCaw and cash for Mike Muscala. He is 12 game Bargnani lol

Stfu with this already. We aren’t in the 90’s anymore.

And he’s talking about picking up a waived Center who’s obviously not going to turn down a job because “OmG iT’s In CaNaDa???”

Evading language filter. Warned.
niQ

[ash_k]

Losing Kawhi for nothing: fine
Losing Green for nothing: fine
Losing Gasol for nothing: ok ok (for a pipedream)
Losing Serge for nothing: unacceptable (for a pipedream)

Losing 4 starters for nothing in 2 years for nothing: unseen before
Now potentially losing Norm and Kyle for nothing. Making it 6 starters lost for nothing : FIREABLE OFFENSE. This is not the NFL.

Still 9 days to go to the trade deadline.

We didn't lose them for nothing. We used them for championship.

You could have not lose them for nothing, by trading them before their contract runs out, but then you lose championship and lose fantastic 2019/2020 season.

It goes without saying...of course, nobody can take that LOB away from us...like I said "fine". You lost your two bigs for nothing for a pipedream that's when the problem started.
NOW if you lose Norman and Kyle for nothing that will cross the redline for me! meaning "Masai&Bobby are not up to the job anymore."

[fbalmeida]

I genuinely laughed when I read the thread title.

You realize this is what they do for a living right?

I'm glad the OP is not our GM.

So am I. They are among the best, if not the very best at what they do. There are just two aspects that have me worried and led me to vent:
1. We have had an obvious roster flaw since very early on in the season and have done nothing to remedy it in any degree, save for Ellenson's 10 day contract a week ago.
2. My hate-fueled envy of the unbelievable ease with which a team like the Lakers can just pick up a Center from a dumpster, insert him as a starter, and efficiently destroy winning teams even without AD.

[Dalek]

The biggest problem that I hope Bobby and Masai see is that this team which has Siakam, FVV, OG and Lowry who are all plus defenders, are still not a very good defensive team. Of course that team hasn't been together lately, but even when they were they were not leading an elite defensive team.

To me, that part of the championship identity has been eroding for a while and we have focused on being a team that tries to outscore its opponents despite not having the players who are creative and efficient scorers. Powell and Boucher have been consistent scorers, but that doesn't make up for their defensive failings.

Powell is near 99th ranked in defensive RPM for SGs, and Boucher 22 for PFs being just a slight positive on the floor despite averaging nearly 2 blocks. Boucher is likely miscast as a defender as his defensive field goal % is 27% on three point shots versus 56% on paint touches.

To me, Toronto needs to POA defenders, plus a player that can protect the rim and switch. Boucher is great for his money but we know he is not a C at this point and should be a SF/PF. Powell is a great 6th man type scorer but not a guy you want guarding elite players.

After that, the other role players need to actually be serviceable on both ends. TD is a turnover king and just has poor IQ both ways. Johnson and Bembry are completely replaceable as their impact on both ends is negligible. I'd keep Johnson just because he does appear to be able to space the floor a bit. Bembry only looks good when Lowry is spoonfeeding him the ball on cuts.

Toronto has to aim higher with its future roster.

Didn't want this to become an all purpose front-office critique thread, but now that you've mentioned it, if you're Masai and Bobby, you have also got to be planning on how to bring in better depth players that can provide you with superior rates of internal improvement.

The drop-off in year-on improvement, if any, from Thomas, TD, Stanimal, and Watson, in comparison to the previous cohort of Fred, Norm, OG, and Siakam, is an outright embarrassment. Boucher is the only standout.

Sorry, didn't want to go off, but this team is strangely constructed and has been that way since the championship. What you pointed out about the drop-off is concerning because each year is getting worse from a talent perspective.

The coach is defensive-minded and the core players are excellent two-way players. The reason Toronto won a championship was based on their defense (and Kawhi carrying the team). Bobby 's MO since the title has been scouring the league for reclamation projects. Only Boucher has panned out. They need to be better with talent acquisition because the core are not transcendental talents like Kawhi, so the guys around them have to be solid.

On the flipside, if Toronto tanks and gets a lotto player, they might be able to get very good quickly. You get a Cade or Suggs this team can become very good again.

[bluerap23]

The Lakers won the title and added Gasol, Harrell and Schroeder.

The Raptors won the title and have gone 750+ days without making a trade. The biggest FA acquisition was Aron Baynes.

Even the best executives make mistakes and there is no question these past two years have been a run of bad decisions by the brain trust. It's unfortunate that a lot of people are unwilling to allow for any type of criticism around this team. Raptors fans have a right to be upset and they should be able to vent the frustrations.

That's a completely disingenuous comparison.

If you want to make it apples for apples, you'd have to ask the hypothetical question: what would the Lakers have done if Lebron decided to walk after the Laker's chip?

That's what Kawhi did to the Raps, and it put them in a different place. In fact, adding Gasol, Harrell and Schroder happened in large part BECAUSE Lebron (and AD) aren't going anywhere.

After the Lakers last title window closed with Kobe tearing his achilles they rebuilt and picked up a ton of talent through the draft which then allowed them to be attractive to LeBron and then deal for AD.

Beyond that, it's not like last years Raptors were all that far from making real noise in the playoffs, yet nothing.

You have to choose a path.

Lakers were a laughing stock in the league for a very long time. LeBron resurrected them. We aren’t signing LeBron or similar player as a free agent. The lakers are a terrible comparison.

[Raptaz]

Didn't they acquire gasol with a couple of hours left.

If they need to take their time and see how the ripple effect of trades which will be upcoming I'm all for it

If its holding norm until the last day I'm all for it


Do your thing management, can't stress about something you don't control especially where they have proven to be competent. Yes they have Barnes but they were going for a big fish .

Lol still 10 days or something right?

[Steelo Green]

“Lakers are a terrible comparison”

Lakers draft picks when they were in the lottery:

D’Angelo Russell
Julius Randle
Lonzo Ball
Brandon Ingram

That team if they didn’t sign Lebron would have been quite good through the draft.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Sorry, didn't want to go off, but this team is strangely constructed and has been that way since the championship. What you pointed out about the drop-off is concerning because each year is getting worse from a talent perspective.

The coach is defensive-minded and the core players are excellent two-way players. The reason Toronto won a championship was based on their defense (and Kawhi carrying the team). Bobby 's MO since the title has been scouring the league for reclamation projects. Only Boucher has panned out. They need to be better with talent acquisition because the core are not transcendental talents like Kawhi, so the guys around them have to be solid.

On the flipside, if Toronto tanks and gets a lotto player, they might be able to get very good quickly. You get a Cade or Suggs this team can become very good again.

Part of the price of trading firsts to add good players en route to a championship. Hitting on a bunch of late picks and undrafted players has been relatively unique to the Raptors, although lately more teams are starting to score off undrafted players. I think people are sore at the losing, but they're essentially trying to turn this over on the fly. It may not look like how you think it should look.

[Spida888]

Lets wait until after the deadline to assess Masai and Bobby. Masai's contract situation being up in the air may be a factor too. If they simply stay put at the deadline, then I think they deserve some criticism.

I don't blame them for losing Ibaka/Gasol. We already knew what the ceiling was with that team last year. We arguably could have beaten Boston if Pascal played better or just had more rest between games (our guys were really gassed with the intense defense we play). Yet, it was pretty clear to me though that Boston was more talented.

We gambled on losing Ibaka and Gasol for a small chance of getting Giannis who is an immense talent. I would have done the same. The silver lining is losing Ibaka/Gasol may allow us to get a good draft pick this year.

[WaltFrazier]

Spoiler:

The biggest problem that I hope Bobby and Masai see is that this team which has Siakam, FVV, OG and Lowry who are all plus defenders, are still not a very good defensive team. Of course that team hasn't been together lately, but even when they were they were not leading an elite defensive team.

To me, that part of the championship identity has been eroding for a while and we have focused on being a team that tries to outscore its opponents despite not having the players who are creative and efficient scorers. Powell and Boucher have been consistent scorers, but that doesn't make up for their defensive failings.

Powell is near 99th ranked in defensive RPM for SGs, and Boucher 22 for PFs being just a slight positive on the floor despite averaging nearly 2 blocks. Boucher is likely miscast as a defender as his defensive field goal % is 27% on three point shots versus 56% on paint touches.

To me, Toronto needs to POA defenders, plus a player that can protect the rim and switch. Boucher is great for his money but we know he is not a C at this point and should be a SF/PF. Powell is a great 6th man type scorer but not a guy you want guarding elite players.

After that, the other role players need to actually be serviceable on both ends. TD is a turnover king and just has poor IQ both ways. Johnson and Bembry are completely replaceable as their impact on both ends is negligible. I'd keep Johnson just because he does appear to be able to space the floor a bit. Bembry only looks good when Lowry is spoonfeeding him the ball on cuts.

Toronto has to aim higher with its future roster.

Didn't want this to become an all purpose front-office critique thread, but now that you've mentioned it, if you're Masai and Bobby, you have also got to be planning on how to bring in better depth players that can provide you with superior rates of internal improvement.

The drop-off in year-on improvement, if any, from Thomas, TD, Stanimal, and Watson, in comparison to the previous cohort of Fred, Norm, OG, and Siakam, is an outright embarrassment. Boucher is the only standout.

Oh but hey, we are still riding high on the reputation of great player development. And don't forget the 90g GM just won an award. So everything is wonderful

[PT416]

One thing that doesn't make sense: Are they not seeing BPM? Since the off-season some of us have been asking for cheap defensive replacements for the Ibaka/Gasol loss like Nerlens Noel (3.0 DBPM). Is it a coincidence that NYK has been playing stellar defense without Mitch Robinson and not skipping a beat with Noel at the 5? Cmon man how can you not see stuff like that? Baynes? His BPM is horrible. What the hell. And Noel got paid less on a one year contract like we wanted? HUH. Like some of the stuff really doesn't make any sense. Kyle deserves better.

[MixxSRC]

“Lakers are a terrible comparison”

Lakers draft picks when they were in the lottery:

D’Angelo Russell
Julius Randle
Lonzo Ball
Brandon Ingram

That team if they didn’t sign Lebron would have been quite good through the draft.

Not a disaster that it was painted as. They just needed more time to develop and good management/coaching to deal with egos. But talent is there and of course all of those are amazing assets to have and they used it to get a superstar in AD