The Importance of Center Play

[Ell Curry]

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[sbsat]

Bagley?

[bballsparkin]

Center play is vital if you want to gun hard for round two of the playoffs. Less so if developing the players on the team and being open minded to adding more valuable draft picks.

[bballsparkin]

1. Picking up another C comparable to the Birch acquisition last would not hurt any development. Say it cost Dragic and filler, even Boucher. Not the core. And Achiuwa can still develop between 3rd C and 905

2. Fred, OG and Pascal deserve better than a purely development season, they are prime young pros with a ring already

Pics or it never happened.

[Indeed]

Bagley?

Bagley couldn't play defense, so a package with TT (both expiring) would be an option.

Boucher Dragic for Bagley and TT

We get our big body plus a project to work on
SAC gets Dragic to help groom their young guards (or as potential trade chip) plus buying low on Boucher. All players on expiring deals. 3rd team would need to be involved.

I was thinking that, salary needs another 40k. I hope a 2-way player like Queta would fit, and we promote one of our 2-way.
Meanwhile, I think they value Bagley, and they may ask for more.

[Indeed]

Drummond’s game yesterday showed us how unimportant a “traditional centre” is today.

I don’t expect us to ever give a significant role to a traditional centre as long as Masai/Bobby/nick are running the show. Eventually we will likely have a 7 footer on the roster but they will not be a traditional C, unless they also have all the perimeter skills we value.

Not just Drummond. Sabonis, Vuce, anyone I can think of so far. Of course the opposing C's are able to inflict a bit of damage against us, but not at a rate that kills us. I came into this season with a certain assumption about the need for a traditional C, hoping Masai had a plan to trade for Myles Turner, and I consider myself to have been kicked in the ass so far.

It's too early to draw any hard conclusions. Let's see Pascal fully recover. Let's see Scottie get more experience. Let's see what happens when we meet Embiid or Jokic or Ayton or AD. Raps did a great job on Embiid in the mini series last season, but at least we had Baynes in the middle. Of course, Birch is a WAY better player than Baynes, although probably not as strong. OG is surprisingly good on Jokic. AD has rarely been a factor against the Raptors.

Really, it's very exciting. The Raps are trying to do something that's never been done.

I was stanning for Jarrett Allen who I still think fits even if his perimeter game is not ideal. He also fits our timeline way better than guys like Turner and Holmes.

There will be games we will lose quite a bit inside. So far it has been against smaller or faster players using their speed and aggressiveness and not really about length or size (Harrell, Williams, Allen/Mobley).

I think we are discussing to have Achiuwa or Birch starts next to Siakam-Barnes-OG.

Trading for the right one would be great, but there are not many options. I think we might draft one next year.

But for immediate issue of not shooting well and not rebounding well, I think we should consider starting a real C next to Siakam- Barnes-OG. And with Birch injured, maybe we should consider having three 3s. A rotation big against big lineupe may help.

[Indeed]

Got to wonder if small C can be sustained against big C for the whole season. I wouldn't be surprised Achiuwa (shoulder) and Siakam (previously shoulder) are due to using to much upper body to defend against big C (Drummond). While Birch (knee) is lower body in defending against big C (Allen).

Good luck against Utah if it will be Barnes, Siakam or OG.

[VanWest82]

Another game where we play small but give up a tremendous amount of points in the process. Meanwhile Isiah Stewart looks like Dwight Howard.

I’m not saying we could have helped it with Birch playing injured and Precious sitting out but the case for starting and playing big is there.

[ItsDanger]

Got to wonder if small C can be sustained against big C for the whole season. I wouldn't be surprised Achiuwa (shoulder) and Siakam (previously shoulder) are due to using to much upper body to defend against big C (Drummond). While Birch (knee) is lower body in defending against big C (Allen).

Good luck against Utah if it will be Barnes, Siakam or OG.

A lot of teams carry 3 Cs. We dropped Gillespie who could have absorbed a lot of minutes. Our management made a mistake with Lowry trade that congested the roster for little benefit. If this is a development season, having both Cs injured early doesn't bode well.

[Psubs]

Got to wonder if small C can be sustained against big C for the whole season. I wouldn't be surprised Achiuwa (shoulder) and Siakam (previously shoulder) are due to using to much upper body to defend against big C (Drummond). While Birch (knee) is lower body in defending against big C (Allen).

Good luck against Utah if it will be Barnes, Siakam or OG.

A lot of teams carry 3 Cs. We dropped Gillespie who could have absorbed a lot of minutes. Our management made a mistake with Lowry trade that congested the roster for little benefit. If this is a development season, having both Cs injured early doesn't bode well.

I guess they didn't envision Achiuwa missing bunnies like Patrick Patterson.

[WaltFrazier]

Center play is vital if you want to gun hard for round two of the playoffs. Less so if developing the players on the team and being open minded to adding more valuable draft picks.

Which teams with only 2 centers, about the level of Birch and Achiuwa, will be going deeper than round 2 again?

[YogurtProducer]

Maybe we shall see the next game, but so far the DRtg with Siakam/OG/Barnes aren't kind to them.
https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/advanced/?Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612761&sort=DEF_RATING&dir=-1&CF=MIN*GE*12

And the total rebound is 40%, which is in the bottom 10. Unless we are scoring better (eg. better TS%), otherwise, being a bottom in rebounding, doesn't help on neither end.

They have played 27 mins together, im not sure what that means, esp considering one of those guys is a rookie, and one just missed all training camp/preseason/11 of 13 games this yr.

27 mins for 5 men is alot, there are only 8 lineups with 12+ mins.
And your point in "one of those guys is a rookie", then we should have a C until the rookie is ready to play that role. If it takes him 10 years to shoot the 3s (*cough* DeRozan *cough*), so we build a lineup that is expecting him to shoot 3? I think we should base on short term, not long term.

If any of them can play C and don't need a C, then we deal with the C. But if we need a C now, and probably the next 2 years, I think we should fix this problem before assuming this will resolve in few years. We do not know if this small lineup is a solution.

27 minutes is certainly not, a lot. But anyways, in the 20 minutes last night those 3 played the 3/4/5 we were a +27.2NRTG.

And if we get a C who cant shoot that just makes Barnes inability to shoot even more damaging, not better.

[seanbig]

After this road trip we are probably looking at the tank nation

We don’t have anyone to guard a 250 center
We could use an ish wainwright right now someone built like a tank

[bballsparkin]

Center play is vital if you want to gun hard for round two of the playoffs. Less so if developing the players on the team and being open minded to adding more valuable draft picks.

Which teams with only 2 centers, about the level of Birch and Achiuwa, will be going deeper than round 2 again?

Likely none! I'm okay with another lottery pick though. Whereas, I suspect you are not.

[WaltFrazier]

Center play is vital if you want to gun hard for round two of the playoffs. Less so if developing the players on the team and being open minded to adding more valuable draft picks.

Which teams with only 2 centers, about the level of Birch and Achiuwa, will be going deeper than round 2 again?

Likely none! I'm okay with another lottery pick though. Whereas, I suspect you are not.

Right, I'm not, but the real question is are FVV, OG and Pascal, all young stars in their prime with a ring and plenty of playoff games already, are they ok with missing playoffs again on purpose? They shouldn't be, they are competitive guys.

[bballsparkin]

^^It's a valid point. Especially with Fred and Pascal. Either could be trade candidates if the season does not go well.

I agree a center is needed to win. Birch has shown the difference a smart fundamentally sound center can make. I'm on board adding another if the price is right. I don't think now is the time to overpay for one.

[Indeed]

They have played 27 mins together, im not sure what that means, esp considering one of those guys is a rookie, and one just missed all training camp/preseason/11 of 13 games this yr.

27 mins for 5 men is alot, there are only 8 lineups with 12+ mins.
And your point in "one of those guys is a rookie", then we should have a C until the rookie is ready to play that role. If it takes him 10 years to shoot the 3s (*cough* DeRozan *cough*), so we build a lineup that is expecting him to shoot 3? I think we should base on short term, not long term.

If any of them can play C and don't need a C, then we deal with the C. But if we need a C now, and probably the next 2 years, I think we should fix this problem before assuming this will resolve in few years. We do not know if this small lineup is a solution.

27 minutes is certainly not, a lot. But anyways, in the 20 minutes last night those 3 played the 3/4/5 we were a +27.2NRTG.

And if we get a C who cant shoot that just makes Barnes inability to shoot even more damaging, not better.

I guess we shall see if we can sustain the 135 ORtg with 43.8% from 3s, or would this only happen against Detroit or league worsts.

This is the other stats that were difference between last game and the previous ones:
https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/misc/?Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612761&CF=GROUP_NAME*R*Siakam:GROUP_NAME*R*Barnes:GROUP_NAME*R*Anunoby&PerMode=Per100Possessions

[Indeed]

Which teams with only 2 centers, about the level of Birch and Achiuwa, will be going deeper than round 2 again?

Likely none! I'm okay with another lottery pick though. Whereas, I suspect you are not.

Right, I'm not, but the real question is are FVV, OG and Pascal, all young stars in their prime with a ring and plenty of playoff games already, are they ok with missing playoffs again on purpose? They shouldn't be, they are competitive guys.

Barnes doesn't look like he likes losing. You can see his frustration.
And by trading VanVleet and Siakam, you got to think if Barnes would feel he will be traded around the same age when he has to carry the team.

[HumbleRen]

Which teams with only 2 centers, about the level of Birch and Achiuwa, will be going deeper than round 2 again?

Likely none! I'm okay with another lottery pick though. Whereas, I suspect you are not.

Right, I'm not, but the real question is are FVV, OG and Pascal, all young stars in their prime with a ring and plenty of playoff games already, are they ok with missing playoffs again on purpose? They shouldn't be, they are competitive guys.

Isn't that on them ? We're only as good as our best players are.

[ropjhk]

I wonder if Atlanta would be open to moving Capela if their season continues to go downhill.