Masai’s plan moving forward

[ForeverTFC]

I'm just going to keep saying this until someone either explains why it isn't the case or people stop bringing it up but...

How is it realistic we're going to get real offers for Pascal after what Sixers did bringing in a bunch of expirings? Nurse and Rico Hines are there, and Pascal and Embiid are friends. Pascal is the best realistic FA this summer. What team is going to look at that and believe they can keep him, and if they don't think they can keep him why is Pascal anything more than a rental?

The only other team I see with a realistic shot at keeping Siakam is us.

Morey has been touting the cap space narrative, but realistically, it's their last option. To open up the numbers you're seeing, they would have to denounce everyone but Maxey and go into FA with only Embiid, Springer, and Reid under contract. They would then need to round out an entire roster around Maxey and Embiid with cap space and the room MLE which is lower than the tax MLE.

Let's assume they don't waive Reid and keep Maxey's cap hold while denouncing everyone else. That leaves them with $76m in salaries and cap holds which gives them ~$65m in cap space + ~$5-6m in room MLE. If they max Pascal into that at ~$40m, they'll have $25m + room MLE to sign at least 4-5 more players to surround Embiid/Maxey/Pascal. It becomes a really tough team building exercise given the MLE is >$12m now days. Could they do it? Yeah, if they strike out at the deadline. Is it in Pascal's best interest to put all his eggs in that basket? Not really. If a team came and promised the extension today, he has to think really hard about it.

They will likely try and turn their expiring contracts and picks into a player by the deadline, so that they can bring back some of their own FAs and operate over the cap, which then gives them access to the MLE as well as the BAE. It's a much easier path.

It'd depend on who's available and at what cost. Are they getting something better than Pascal for expirings and a couple picks? Maybe they offer that to us to mitigate the risk of Pascal re-signing.

I'd be very tempted to wait and go the FA route if I'm them. They can build a decent roster with 65M in cap space.

If you give $40m of that to Pascal, you only $25m + room MLE to build the rest of the roster with only Embiid, Siakam, Maxey, Springer and Reid on it. That's 2 MLEs and 1 tax-payer MLE essentially. They would need to somehow get 2 starters and at minimum 3 bench players for that money. It gets really tough.

[ForeverTFC]

~136M cap x 30% max = ~40M

40M x 5% = 2M
40M x 8% = 3.2M

1.2M difference x 4 years = 4.8M

It's not that big of a difference

I think the increases are secondary to an entire extra year of guaranteed money at like 40mil. We hold his bird rights, so if he wants that 5th year, it's a S&T, or a trade in general.

So teams can offer the fifth year now even though it's not the team that drafted you? Did this change in the new CBA?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but you can offer 5 years if you have bird rights, doesn't have to be the team that drafted you. The draft stipulation is attached to the super max, not the regular max. Not new, has always been the case.

[Scase]

~136M cap x 30% max = ~40M

40M x 5% = 2M
40M x 8% = 3.2M

1.2M difference x 4 years = 4.8M

It's not that big of a difference

I think the increases are secondary to an entire extra year of guaranteed money at like 40mil. We hold his bird rights, so if he wants that 5th year, it's a S&T, or a trade in general.

So teams can offer the fifth year now even though it's not the team that drafted you? Did this change in the new CBA?

No it's been like that for a while, you can trade a player and the receiving team retains their bird rights allowing them to offer the 5th year. You only lose your bird rights if you leave in FA, waived and not picked up, or rights are renounced. This breaks it down in a very detailed manner.

[Scase]

I think the increases are secondary to an entire extra year of guaranteed money at like 40mil. We hold his bird rights, so if he wants that 5th year, it's a S&T, or a trade in general.

So teams can offer the fifth year now even though it's not the team that drafted you? Did this change in the new CBA?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but you can offer 5 years if you have bird rights, doesn't have to be the team that drafted you. The draft stipulation is attached to the super max, not the regular max. Not new, has always been the case.

Correct, bird rights =/= super max rights.

[Basketball_Jones]

Nobody knows. So far it’s keep everything the same but move trash and picks for upgrades when you can.

[Pointgod]

I think the increases are secondary to an entire extra year of guaranteed money at like 40mil. We hold his bird rights, so if he wants that 5th year, it's a S&T, or a trade in general.

So teams can offer the fifth year now even though it's not the team that drafted you? Did this change in the new CBA?

No it's been like that for a while, you can trade a player and the receiving team retains their bird rights allowing them to offer the 5th year. You only lose your bird rights if you leave in FA, waived and not picked up, or rights are renounced. This breaks it down in a very detailed manner.

Sign and traded players can’t get the 5th year FYI. So Siakim can only keep his bird rights if he’s traded. There’s literally no benefit for him in a sign and trade. He’s better off being traded to a team where he can resign with his bird rights.

Sign-and-trade contracts can be worth any amount up to the player’s maximum salary (with 5% annual raises), and must be for either three or four years. However, only the first year of the deal has to be fully guaranteed.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2020/06/hoops-rumors-glossary-sign-and-trades-2.html

[VanWest82]

Morey has been touting the cap space narrative, but realistically, it's their last option. To open up the numbers you're seeing, they would have to denounce everyone but Maxey and go into FA with only Embiid, Springer, and Reid under contract. They would then need to round out an entire roster around Maxey and Embiid with cap space and the room MLE which is lower than the tax MLE.

Let's assume they don't waive Reid and keep Maxey's cap hold while denouncing everyone else. That leaves them with $76m in salaries and cap holds which gives them ~$65m in cap space + ~$5-6m in room MLE. If they max Pascal into that at ~$40m, they'll have $25m + room MLE to sign at least 4-5 more players to surround Embiid/Maxey/Pascal. It becomes a really tough team building exercise given the MLE is >$12m now days. Could they do it? Yeah, if they strike out at the deadline. Is it in Pascal's best interest to put all his eggs in that basket? Not really. If a team came and promised the extension today, he has to think really hard about it.

They will likely try and turn their expiring contracts and picks into a player by the deadline, so that they can bring back some of their own FAs and operate over the cap, which then gives them access to the MLE as well as the BAE. It's a much easier path.

It'd depend on who's available and at what cost. Are they getting something better than Pascal for expirings and a couple picks? Maybe they offer that to us to mitigate the risk of Pascal re-signing.

I'd be very tempted to wait and go the FA route if I'm them. They can build a decent roster with 65M in cap space.

If you give $40m of that to Pascal, you only $25m + room MLE to build the rest of the roster with only Embiid, Siakam, Maxey, Springer and Reid on it. That's 2 MLEs and 1 tax-payer MLE essentially. They would need to somehow get 2 starters and at minimum 3 bench players for that money. It gets really tough.

If it's not doable, it makes you wonder why they did it. Expirings aren't valuable as trade assets anymore.

[Scase]

So teams can offer the fifth year now even though it's not the team that drafted you? Did this change in the new CBA?

No it's been like that for a while, you can trade a player and the receiving team retains their bird rights allowing them to offer the 5th year. You only lose your bird rights if you leave in FA, waived and not picked up, or rights are renounced. This breaks it down in a very detailed manner.

Sign and traded players can’t get the 5th year FYI. So Siakim can only keep his bird rights if he’s traded. There’s literally no benefit for him in a sign and trade. He’s better off being traded to a team where he can resign with his bird rights.

Sign-and-trade contracts can be worth any amount up to the player’s maximum salary (with 5% annual raises), and must be for either three or four years. However, only the first year of the deal has to be fully guaranteed.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2020/06/hoops-rumors-glossary-sign-and-trades-2.html

Ah yeah you're right, I always thought they were inclusive!

[ArthurVandelay]

Isn't it just the difference between 5% and 8% raises (not compounded), or did they change it so that any team that trades for him can offer 5th year?

i'm not sure what the exact #'s are but your %'s sound correct - probably comes out to about $25 or so million during the duration of the contract. my understanding is that only we can offer a 5th year since he's our own player. but my point stands, if a team thinks pascal wants to maximize his dollar contract, then only his bird's rights team can do it so that's why they would trade for him. otherwise your point stands, they may not give up their best offers.

~136M cap x 30% max = ~40M

40M x 5% = 2M
40M x 8% = 3.2M

1.2M difference x 4 years = 4.8M

It's not that big of a difference

It’s not that small either, but you’re closer

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2023/07/nba-maximum-salaries-for-2023-24.html

It’s about $7m on a 4 year deal of 5% vs 8% raises

The key is the bird rights and the 5th year that is about a $61,000,000 difference.

[Johnny Bball]

It'd depend on who's available and at what cost. Are they getting something better than Pascal for expirings and a couple picks? Maybe they offer that to us to mitigate the risk of Pascal re-signing.

I'd be very tempted to wait and go the FA route if I'm them. They can build a decent roster with 65M in cap space.

If you give $40m of that to Pascal, you only $25m + room MLE to build the rest of the roster with only Embiid, Siakam, Maxey, Springer and Reid on it. That's 2 MLEs and 1 tax-payer MLE essentially. They would need to somehow get 2 starters and at minimum 3 bench players for that money. It gets really tough.

If it's not doable, it makes you wonder why they did it. Expirings aren't valuable as trade assets anymore.

Its all they could get. They did get picks that they can add to the expirings and grab a pretty good player.

If they don't trade the picks and the expirings, then they have to sign Maxey and find cap space, and then work under the tax, which is not going to let them win for a few years if that. And Tyrese Maxey is going to get maxed the way Nurse has moved the focus and what Maxey's doing with it. That means likely letting everyone go execpt Embiid, Maxey and Reed. Doesn't seem like its the best way forward.

Fwiw I don't see the Sixers operating under the cap and risking Embiid fleeing.

As for UFAs. There's only two big names players that have switched teams since 2020. Two. And that 2nd one was FVV because they blew it out of the park. So many more players have asked for a trade instead.

The new way to switch teams is sign the extension, then eventually ask for a trade when unhappy.

[VanWest82]

Fwiw I don't see the Sixers operating under the cap and risking Embiid fleeing.

As for UFAs. There's only two big names players that have switched teams since 2020. Two. And that 2nd one was FVV because they blew it out of the park. So many more players have asked for a trade instead.

The new way to switch teams is sign the extension, then eventually ask for a trade when unhappy.

Fair points though that doesn't seem to be the way we let players switch teams. All our recent guys made it to FA except Norm. It's been five years since Demar, and Lowry was a S&T. Maybe this is the time Masai will buck the trend.

Pascal seems unhappy now. There's no extension and he hasn't fit in with the current roster. I'm mostly flagging the Philly thing, however it happens, because it doesn't seem to be getting discussed. Detroit or Chicago or...isn't going to send a big offer if they think Pascal wants to go to Philly who have positioned themselves to acquire a third banana.

Pascal for Morris, Covington, Springer and the picks from the Clippers trade.

If we're not going to re-sign him, this might be Masai's plan moving forward.

[Johnny Bball]

Fwiw I don't see the Sixers operating under the cap and risking Embiid fleeing.

As for UFAs. There's only two big names players that have switched teams since 2020. Two. And that 2nd one was FVV because they blew it out of the park. So many more players have asked for a trade instead.

The new way to switch teams is sign the extension, then eventually ask for a trade when unhappy.

Fair points though that doesn't seem to be the way we let players switch teams. All our recent guys made it to FA except Norm. It's been five years since Demar, and Lowry was a S&T. Maybe this is the time Masai will buck the trend.

Pascal seems unhappy now. There's no extension and he hasn't fit in with the current roster. I'm mostly flagging the Philly thing, however it happens, because it doesn't seem to be getting discussed. Detroit or Chicago or...isn't going to send a big offer if they think Pascal wants to go to Philly who have positioned themselves to acquire a third banana.

Pascal for Morris, Covington, Springer and the picks from the Clippers trade.

If we're not going to re-sign him, this might be Masai's plan moving forward.

I'm pretty certain he doesn't trade him inside the division, and I have a suspicion that he doesn't ever deal with Morey, or Nurse. Especially not for picks/swaps 5 years out, without getting someone that plays now.

[TheAlchemist23]

Fwiw I don't see the Sixers operating under the cap and risking Embiid fleeing.

As for UFAs. There's only two big names players that have switched teams since 2020. Two. And that 2nd one was FVV because they blew it out of the park. So many more players have asked for a trade instead.

The new way to switch teams is sign the extension, then eventually ask for a trade when unhappy.

Fair points though that doesn't seem to be the way we let players switch teams. All our recent guys made it to FA except Norm. It's been five years since Demar, and Lowry was a S&T. Maybe this is the time Masai will buck the trend.

Pascal seems unhappy now. There's no extension and he hasn't fit in with the current roster. I'm mostly flagging the Philly thing, however it happens, because it doesn't seem to be getting discussed. Detroit or Chicago or...isn't going to send a big offer if they think Pascal wants to go to Philly who have positioned themselves to acquire a third banana.

Pascal for Morris, Covington, Springer and the picks from the Clippers trade.

If we're not going to re-sign him, this might be Masai's plan moving forward.

Yuck. Sacramento seems to be desperate for one of OG or Siakam. What could we get from them?

[C-R-E-A-M-]

Find Scottie's running mate. Add shooting and playmaking to core of Scottie-OG-Gradey

High updside- Jaden Ivey, Keegan Murray (if SAC gets desperate), Jarace Walker

High end role players that fit- Andrew Nembhard, Aj Griffin, Cason Wallace

[Rapsfan07]

Fwiw I don't see the Sixers operating under the cap and risking Embiid fleeing.

As for UFAs. There's only two big names players that have switched teams since 2020. Two. And that 2nd one was FVV because they blew it out of the park. So many more players have asked for a trade instead.

The new way to switch teams is sign the extension, then eventually ask for a trade when unhappy.

Fair points though that doesn't seem to be the way we let players switch teams. All our recent guys made it to FA except Norm. It's been five years since Demar, and Lowry was a S&T. Maybe this is the time Masai will buck the trend.

Pascal seems unhappy now. There's no extension and he hasn't fit in with the current roster. I'm mostly flagging the Philly thing, however it happens, because it doesn't seem to be getting discussed. Detroit or Chicago or...isn't going to send a big offer if they think Pascal wants to go to Philly who have positioned themselves to acquire a third banana.

Pascal for Morris, Covington, Springer and the picks from the Clippers trade.

If we're not going to re-sign him, this might be Masai's plan moving forward.

Yuck. Sacramento seems to be desperate for one of OG or Siakam. What could we get from them?

Yeah I'm not sure why people are still talking about Sacramento. I don't even care for Keegan Murray (especially since we already have Dick and they do more or less the same thing or project to fill the same role) and unless they're offering him (which they probably aren't), we shouldn't be trading him.

I'd actually rather pay Siakam than trade him for Sacramento's garbage.

[Chalky_White]

If Hawks are still interested in Siakam this is a realistic trade IMO that would work:

To Raptors:
Aj Griffin
Bogdan Bogdanovic
Luke Kennard
2024 first(ATL or SAC), 2025 MEM first

To Hawks:
Siakam
Otto Porter Jr
Jake Laravia

To Grizzlies:
Clint Capela

Reasoning is that Toronto acquires much needed shooters to surround Scottie with and some picks going forward. Also salvages some value from a soon to be a free agent in Siakam. Memphis needs a center after Adams injury and got a decent one in Capela.

[TheAlchemist23]

Fair points though that doesn't seem to be the way we let players switch teams. All our recent guys made it to FA except Norm. It's been five years since Demar, and Lowry was a S&T. Maybe this is the time Masai will buck the trend.

Pascal seems unhappy now. There's no extension and he hasn't fit in with the current roster. I'm mostly flagging the Philly thing, however it happens, because it doesn't seem to be getting discussed. Detroit or Chicago or...isn't going to send a big offer if they think Pascal wants to go to Philly who have positioned themselves to acquire a third banana.

Pascal for Morris, Covington, Springer and the picks from the Clippers trade.

If we're not going to re-sign him, this might be Masai's plan moving forward.

Yuck. Sacramento seems to be desperate for one of OG or Siakam. What could we get from them?

Yeah I'm not sure why people are still talking about Sacramento. I don't even care for Keegan Murray (especially since we already have Dick and they do more or less the same thing or project to fill the same role) and unless they're offering him (which they probably aren't), we shouldn't be trading him.

I'd actually rather pay Siakam than trade him for Sacramento's garbage.

Maybe the trade with them would be pick heavy. So far it looks like last year was a flash in the pan for the Kings but they might be desperate to recapture that momentum. I'd love to short their future, and then flip those picks for functional pieces/good prospects.

[HKBOY]

Ideally this would be our lineup in 2 years:

PG - A young PG who can pass, shoot and break down the defense
SG - Dick (elite 3 point shooter)
SF - OG (DPOY level defender who can give you 16-18 ppg)
PF - Scottie (Superstar)
C - A 3 & D Center

6th man - Schroder
Key rotation players - Poeltl, Precious, someone like Otto but less injury prone

[GreatWhiteStiff]

Lets just be real. If the Raptors aren't tanking or trading away their stars/good players, the majority of this forum says they have no direction. Because its not their idea of a chosen direction, and because ironically, they are impatient as hell.

Love you, Johnny

[gpoon]

I’m sure most would agree that Masai has been at best subpar post championship years. Drafting Scottie Barnes has earned him some extra leeway. Imagine if he drafted Suggs?

Anyways the question now is, with this present mess we’re in with Pascal, OG and Trent all becoming FAs this offseason, and our 2024 lost draft pick, what will Masai do to salvage the Raps?

The obvious answer is that he needs to trade Pascal and possibly Trent before the deadline for complimentary pieces around Scottie, and sign OG to big dollars this offseason. The question is, will Masai indeed do that?! And can he do that?

It’s a nerve racking time to be a raptors fan. I hate the lack of balance on this team! Pascal needs to go!!

Enjoy the moment…. A wise raptor once said, then proceeded to leave the team