Former Raptor discussion thread 3.0

[BetterCallSaul]

Well, you agree with his tweet then.

The tweet is questioning his shot selection which i do not agree with. On fact look at Houstons young core they are getting their reps vis a vis shot attempts and usage.

Fred is a catch and shoot guy primarily. When they question shot selection, its contested shots on perimeter and at the rim. That is the cause of the inefficiency, especially when he forces things.

Fred was top 3 in Pull Up 3p% and attempts in the league as of a couple of weeks ago. I don't know where to find that stat myself so I can't provide an updated version but I saw one of those stats pages put out the list of top 5 3pa and % guys in the NBA on pull-up threes.
That's one of the most valuable skills in the NBA. Especially when you can make the pass out of the blitz without turning it over like Fred can. No wonder he and Sengun have such a good two man game.

[BetterCallSaul]

Fred is a catch and shoot guy primarily. When they question shot selection, its contested shots on perimeter and at the rim. That is the cause of the inefficiency, especially when he forces things.

Catch and shoot guy who has been top 5 in assists for the entire season.

The point was about shooting, not assists.

Don't worry, you're also wrong on that.

[ItsDanger]

Catch and shoot guy who has been top 5 in assists for the entire season.

The point was about shooting, not assists.

Don't worry, you're also wrong on that.

Am I?

https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1627832/shots-dash

Pull up 3pt 34% on 4.7 per game, catch and shoot 3pt 43% on 3.0 per game. That's 7.7 shots of totally 13.7 FGA per game.

Less than 10' 42% on 3.1 shots per game. Contested 3s are at about 34%.

Efficient shooting can be defined as above league average. Inefficient shooting is therefore below league average. That is how the common discourse basically defines efficiency. Fred falls under inefficient except if he had more catch and shoot chances and played off ball more. Or just took fewer shots.

The stats in that link don't lie and are fairly consistent over past few seasons.

[ArthurVandelay]

Via The Athletic:

For his part, VanVleet said in Houston he is now trying to learn from his mistakes made “over the last two years.” “I don’t think I bonded as well as I would have liked to with just the group in general,” VanVleet said. “On the court chemistry was fine, there was no beef or disconnect there. “I’m now coming in (Houston) as a new guy: How do I create those relationships with these guys? Because it was kind of like everybody was on the same playing field (in Toronto) and we all were striving for our own different things. Sometimes the timelines don’t match and sometimes interests don’t match.”

nice to see Fred admit this. Probably easier when his bet on himself persona resulted in a $40+m per year contract.

[tms]

Pacers Knicks was epic last night at the Garden. Fun to see Pascal and Precious on playoff teams again. Hopefully OG can play tmrw vs Lbj

[BetterCallSaul]

The point was about shooting, not assists.

Don't worry, you're also wrong on that.

Am I?

https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1627832/shots-dash

Pull up 3pt 34% on 4.7 per game, catch and shoot 3pt 43% on 3.0 per game. That's 7.7 shots of totally 13.7 FGA per game.

Less than 10' 42% on 3.1 shots per game. Contested 3s are at about 34%.

Efficient shooting can be defined as above league average. Inefficient shooting is therefore below league average. That is how the common discourse basically defines efficiency. Fred falls under inefficient except if he had more catch and shoot chances and played off ball more. Or just took fewer shots.

The stats in that link don't lie and are fairly consistent over past few seasons.

Thanks for linking that. Lol, looks like he's on a huge shooting slump on his pull up threes because the stat I saw a couple weeks ago had him at 37% on his pull up threes and among the leaders in makes. I'm guessing he ends up somewhere between those two numbers. Through filtering, it looks like he's been shooting under 20% on pull up threes for the last 9 games. He's bound to break out of that slump. In the meantime, he should definitely be more selective with his shots, but that's not one of his strengths unfortunately. He's never been the perfect point guard. However, he is definitely a win for the Rockets so far.
They were supposed to be a bottom 5 team and he and Dillon Brooks were supposed to be toxic chuckers that further corroded the team's culture. The total opposite has happened.

[Son Goku 25]

Via The Athletic:

For his part, VanVleet said in Houston he is now trying to learn from his mistakes made “over the last two years.” “I don’t think I bonded as well as I would have liked to with just the group in general,” VanVleet said. “On the court chemistry was fine, there was no beef or disconnect there. “I’m now coming in (Houston) as a new guy: How do I create those relationships with these guys? Because it was kind of like everybody was on the same playing field (in Toronto) and we all were striving for our own different things. Sometimes the timelines don’t match and sometimes interests don’t match.”

nice to see Fred admit this. Probably easier when his bet on himself persona resulted in a $40+m per year contract.

But I guess this isn't even proof right coming from the man himself

[johanliebert]

Via The Athletic:

For his part, VanVleet said in Houston he is now trying to learn from his mistakes made “over the last two years.” “I don’t think I bonded as well as I would have liked to with just the group in general,” VanVleet said. “On the court chemistry was fine, there was no beef or disconnect there. “I’m now coming in (Houston) as a new guy: How do I create those relationships with these guys? Because it was kind of like everybody was on the same playing field (in Toronto) and [b]we all were striving for our own different things. Sometimes the timelines don’t match and sometimes interests don’t match.” [/b]

nice to see Fred admit this. Probably easier when his bet on himself persona resulted in a $40+m per year contract.

I said this numerous times last year about the vets as a collective. it wasn't just Fred like most of you will make this out to be. Pascal spent last year trying to chuck his way to an all-nba spot so he could secure a super max contract. Og also had his eyes set on his next contract and destination anyone with eyes who watched this team before the trades knew they didn't like playing together.

but i'm sure you guys will make this about one guy as if every nba player doesn't worry about their contract first.

[ItsDanger]

It's funny to hear Fred talk about timelines when so many of us here were saying the same thing.

[Tha Cynic]

Read on Twitter

god dammit everyone thriving

We've seen Precious have stretches like this before. I put more stock in the bigger sample size where he starts really making awful plays.

He's like a better Malachi Flynn. Good stretches and then long stretches of awful.

The only thing I could see working in his favour is if Thibs keeps him on a short leash and drives home his role as an energy big and not the next Kobe Bryant.

He's a lot better than Malachi Flynn lol. With Aichuwa, if you can get him to play a simple game he will have a huge impact. Here, either they were trying to develop him to do more or he just thought he could get on the floor regardless of what he did on the floor so we didn't get his better games.

[Tha Cynic]

Watch on YouTube

They're all gone! What a team/what a run.

Goosebumps every time. The feeling when Kawhi dunked the Kyle back pass - chills. Makes me wanna cry to see the crowd, the excitement, and see how quiet Scotiabank is now

We played NBA history type of elite level defense those playoffs. It was beautiful to watch. Also so nice to watch a team that did everything and not jack up 3s all game lol

[ForeverTFC]

Via The Athletic:

For his part, VanVleet said in Houston he is now trying to learn from his mistakes made “over the last two years.” “I don’t think I bonded as well as I would have liked to with just the group in general,” VanVleet said. “On the court chemistry was fine, there was no beef or disconnect there. “I’m now coming in (Houston) as a new guy: How do I create those relationships with these guys? Because it was kind of like everybody was on the same playing field (in Toronto) and we all were striving for our own different things. Sometimes the timelines don’t match and sometimes interests don’t match.”

nice to see Fred admit this. Probably easier when his bet on himself persona resulted in a $40+m per year contract.

The fact that our media hasn't come out with what the hell happened in that locker room over the last 2 years now that everyone is gone is just inexcusable.

[galeon110]

Read on Twitter

[Fairview4Life]

Via The Athletic:

For his part, VanVleet said in Houston he is now trying to learn from his mistakes made “over the last two years.” “I don’t think I bonded as well as I would have liked to with just the group in general,” VanVleet said. “On the court chemistry was fine, there was no beef or disconnect there. “I’m now coming in (Houston) as a new guy: How do I create those relationships with these guys? Because it was kind of like everybody was on the same playing field (in Toronto) and we all were striving for our own different things. Sometimes the timelines don’t match and sometimes interests don’t match.”

nice to see Fred admit this. Probably easier when his bet on himself persona resulted in a $40+m per year contract.

The fact that our media hasn't come out with what the hell happened in that locker room over the last 2 years now that everyone is gone is just inexcusable.

Maybe because nothing "happened" in the locker room? Fred's quote was pretty anodyne.

[ForeverTFC]

Via The Athletic:



nice to see Fred admit this. Probably easier when his bet on himself persona resulted in a $40+m per year contract.

The fact that our media hasn't come out with what the hell happened in that locker room over the last 2 years now that everyone is gone is just inexcusable.

Maybe because nothing "happened" in the locker room? Fred's quote was pretty anodyne.

There's been multiple off-hand comments in Toronto media and the US media about how awful our locker room has been for a few years. Ton of smoke about an attempted coupe by Watson to take Nurse's job last year that may have involved Pascal. Scottie's apparent bad blood with Fred and Nurse (compare his reactions to when they left vs when Pascal and OG left).

Something happened, I don't think anyone could really argue otherwise. The thing is, people seem to know but just don't want to talk about it.

[Fairview4Life]

The fact that our media hasn't come out with what the hell happened in that locker room over the last 2 years now that everyone is gone is just inexcusable.

Maybe because nothing "happened" in the locker room? Fred's quote was pretty anodyne.

There's been multiple off-hand comments in Toronto media and the US media about how awful our locker room has been for a few years. Ton of smoke about an attempted coupe by Watson to take Nurse's job last year that may have involved Pascal. Scottie's apparent bad blood with Fred and Nurse (compare his reactions to when they left vs when Pascal and OG left).

Something happened, I don't think anyone could really argue otherwise. The thing is, people seem to know but just don't want to talk about it.

I am reading this: "I don’t think I bonded as well as I would have liked to with just the group in general...” and wondering what tf you're talking about.

[lobosloboslobos]

Don't worry, you're also wrong on that.

Am I?

https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1627832/shots-dash

Pull up 3pt 34% on 4.7 per game, catch and shoot 3pt 43% on 3.0 per game. That's 7.7 shots of totally 13.7 FGA per game.

Less than 10' 42% on 3.1 shots per game. Contested 3s are at about 34%.

Efficient shooting can be defined as above league average. Inefficient shooting is therefore below league average. That is how the common discourse basically defines efficiency. Fred falls under inefficient except if he had more catch and shoot chances and played off ball more. Or just took fewer shots.

The stats in that link don't lie and are fairly consistent over past few seasons.

Thanks for linking that. Lol, looks like he's on a huge shooting slump on his pull up threes because the stat I saw a couple weeks ago had him at 37% on his pull up threes and among the leaders in makes. I'm guessing he ends up somewhere between those two numbers. Through filtering, it looks like he's been shooting under 20% on pull up threes for the last 9 games. He's bound to break out of that slump. In the meantime, he should definitely be more selective with his shots, but that's not one of his strengths unfortunately. He's never been the perfect point guard. However, he is definitely a win for the Rockets so far.
They were supposed to be a bottom 5 team and he and Dillon Brooks were supposed to be toxic chuckers that further corroded the team's culture. The total opposite has happened.

Freddy is one of the streakiest shooters in the league, so this drastic slump is par for the course for him. One of these days he'll catch fire and go on an insane streak hitting everything in sight instead of bricking absolutely everything. Then he'll end the season right around his career average of 37.3% from deep, which, coincidentally is exactly what he's averaging at the moment this season.

[ciueli]

Pascal's latest game is part of why I wanted to move on from him for years. An undermanned Knicks team and he puts up 18 points on 19 shots, the Knicks used Precious as the primary defender on Pascal when I was watching this, so it's not like he was being guarded by an incredible defensive stopper. Rebounding has always been a bit of a soft spot for Pascal, in this game he had 7 rebounds and Precious had 16. In 2022-23 Pascal was leading the league in minutes per game but still averaging under 8 RPG, that's poor for a star level big man.

[ATLTimekeeper]

The fact that our media hasn't come out with what the hell happened in that locker room over the last 2 years now that everyone is gone is just inexcusable.

Maybe because nothing "happened" in the locker room? Fred's quote was pretty anodyne.

There's been multiple off-hand comments in Toronto media and the US media about how awful our locker room has been for a few years. Ton of smoke about an attempted coupe by Watson to take Nurse's job last year that may have involved Pascal. Scottie's apparent bad blood with Fred and Nurse (compare his reactions to when they left vs when Pascal and OG left).

Something happened, I don't think anyone could really argue otherwise. The thing is, people seem to know but just don't want to talk about it.

I think it's been outlined already. Here Fred again points to the culture shift in the organization after Scottie was drafted. When Masai was asked about this directly at the most recent trade presser, he said that they were going to have to find a new culture because the younger generation is different. Sounds like the vets resented that they weren't supported by the FO when they attempted to maintain the previous culture. Since Scottie and Masai are both still here, what reporter is going to risk their access by reporting gossip? Frankly, Scottie is doing very well this year. Fred is happy and well-paid. Siakam is probably going to get paid.

[lobosloboslobos]

Pascal's latest game is part of why I wanted to move on from him for years. An undermanned Knicks team and he puts up 18 points on 19 shots, the Knicks used Precious as the primary defender on Pascal when I was watching this, so it's not like he was being guarded by an incredible defensive stopper. Rebounding has always been a bit of a soft spot for Pascal, in this game he had 7 rebounds and Precious had 16. In 2022-23 Pascal was leading the league in minutes per game but still averaging under 8 RPG, that's poor for a star level big man.

yeah he was terrific in the wins over Philly and Phoenix but with the game on the line last night he was pretty bad. nobody succeeds all the time though...