Shams: TOR signs DJ Carton to a New Deal (2-way) pg. 7

[bballsparkin]

Raps scouting hasn't really delivered in recent years in terms of getting cheaper non lottery talent. The way NBA contracts work, its the last 6 or so years that matter before raises are handed out.

Then we're due!

[bluerap23]

You are drastically missing the point. I'm not expecting us to find 4 undrafted players that are good. I'm asking for a SINGLE one to pan out over 5 years. This isn't a binary choice of phenomenal or awful, there are levels. It would be nice if we could just find something.

You are also missing his point. Give the teams that had undrafted players that panned out aside from Heat. Your expectation has to be relative to the reality not base on your made up expectations. We had Fred which became an all-star and Chris Boucher, how about the other 28 teams.

Yeah you're right, finding a single NBA level player outside the draft in 5 years is unreasonable.

Oshae Brisset, Johntay Porter, Justin Champaigne, Gueye, Marquis Nowell.

There are guys, they just aren't huge impact guys yet. The reality is that there are hardly any Undrafted players in the NBA that are in a teams top 8. Raptors have a very good history with Undrafted guys but it is extremely unlikely that they will develop into rotation guys. The Miami Heat are the exception, not the rule. Please tell me of these other teams in the NBA that has hit on 2 serious Undrafted guys in the last 2 decades, let alone the last 5 years. The fact that the Raptors have had 2 legit rotation guys that were Undrafted puts us in the upper echelon.

[ItsDanger]

You are also missing his point. Give the teams that had undrafted players that panned out aside from Heat. Your expectation has to be relative to the reality not base on your made up expectations. We had Fred which became an all-star and Chris Boucher, how about the other 28 teams.

Yeah you're right, finding a single NBA level player outside the draft in 5 years is unreasonable.

Oshae Brisset, Johntay Porter, Justin Champaigne, Gueye, Marquis Nowell.

There are guys, they just aren't huge impact guys yet. The reality is that there are hardly any Undrafted players in the NBA that are in a teams top 8. Raptors have a very good history with Undrafted guys but it is extremely unlikely that they will develop into rotation guys. The Miami Heat are the exception, not the rule. Please tell me of these other teams in the NBA that has hit on 2 serious Undrafted guys in the last 2 decades, let alone the last 5 years. The fact that the Raptors have had 2 legit rotation guys that were Undrafted puts us in the upper echelon.

Lakers got Alex Caruso and Austin Reaves undrafted. Dallas had Dorian Finney-Smith & Maxi Kleber.

[bluerap23]

Yeah you're right, finding a single NBA level player outside the draft in 5 years is unreasonable.

Oshae Brisset, Johntay Porter, Justin Champaigne, Gueye, Marquis Nowell.

There are guys, they just aren't huge impact guys yet. The reality is that there are hardly any Undrafted players in the NBA that are in a teams top 8. Raptors have a very good history with Undrafted guys but it is extremely unlikely that they will develop into rotation guys. The Miami Heat are the exception, not the rule. Please tell me of these other teams in the NBA that has hit on 2 serious Undrafted guys in the last 2 decades, let alone the last 5 years. The fact that the Raptors have had 2 legit rotation guys that were Undrafted puts us in the upper echelon.

Lakers got Alex Caruso and Austin Reaves undrafted. Dallas had Dorian Finney-Smith & Maxi Kleber.

Those are good examples. I'd say that the Lakers and Mavs have been equally (not more) successful than Raps.

[Scase]

You are also missing his point. Give the teams that had undrafted players that panned out aside from Heat. Your expectation has to be relative to the reality not base on your made up expectations. We had Fred which became an all-star and Chris Boucher, how about the other 28 teams.

Yeah you're right, finding a single NBA level player outside the draft in 5 years is unreasonable.

Oshae Brisset, Johntay Porter, Justin Champaigne, Gueye, Marquis Nowell.

There are guys, they just aren't huge impact guys yet. The reality is that there are hardly any Undrafted players in the NBA that are in a teams top 8. Raptors have a very good history with Undrafted guys but it is extremely unlikely that they will develop into rotation guys. The Miami Heat are the exception, not the rule. Please tell me of these other teams in the NBA that has hit on 2 serious Undrafted guys in the last 2 decades, let alone the last 5 years. The fact that the Raptors have had 2 legit rotation guys that were Undrafted puts us in the upper echelon.

Nowell career minutes in the NBA = 4
Gueye career minutes in the NBA = 6
Oshae career minutes in the NBA = 3702 Only 135mp for the Raptors
Porter career minutes in the NBA = 275 212mp for the Raptors
Champagnie career minutes in the NBA = 325 281mp for the raptors

If this is your measure for success, sweet christ you need to raise your bar. Oshae is by far the greatest success, and it isn't even a success since his minutes have been all on other teams. I don't care if we find the next MJ undrafted, if he plays for another team. The only guy on that list to play significant minutes in the NBA, we waived after 135 minutes.

Yeah, you're really proving me wrong here lol.

I'm not looking for a starter, or even a top 8 player. But some actual useful bench pieces. Boucher is about the only one we still have.

[bluerap23]

Yeah you're right, finding a single NBA level player outside the draft in 5 years is unreasonable.

Oshae Brisset, Johntay Porter, Justin Champaigne, Gueye, Marquis Nowell.

There are guys, they just aren't huge impact guys yet. The reality is that there are hardly any Undrafted players in the NBA that are in a teams top 8. Raptors have a very good history with Undrafted guys but it is extremely unlikely that they will develop into rotation guys. The Miami Heat are the exception, not the rule. Please tell me of these other teams in the NBA that has hit on 2 serious Undrafted guys in the last 2 decades, let alone the last 5 years. The fact that the Raptors have had 2 legit rotation guys that were Undrafted puts us in the upper echelon.

Nowell career minutes in the NBA = 4
Gueye career minutes in the NBA = 6
Oshae career minutes in the NBA = 3702 Only 135mp for the Raptors
Porter career minutes in the NBA = 275 212mp for the Raptors
Champagnie career minutes in the NBA = 325 281mp for the raptors

If this is your measure for success, sweet christ you need to raise your bar. Oshae is by far the greatest success, and it isn't even a success since his minutes have been all on other teams. I don't care if we find the next MJ undrafted, if he plays for another team. The only guy on that list to play significant minutes in the NBA, we waived after 135 minutes.

Yeah, you're really proving me wrong here lol.

I'm not looking for a starter, or even a top 8 player. But some actual useful bench pieces. Boucher is about the only one we still have.

You asked for the last 5 years, yet you aren't willing to give these guys a chance to develop and become rotation players. These guys aren't going into the NBA and being given mins.

And Yet you haven't named a single team beyond Miami that has successfully developed all these amazing Undrafted players in the last 5 years. I guess you are really proving me wrong.

[KrazyP]

Oshae Brisset, Johntay Porter, Justin Champaigne, Gueye, Marquis Nowell.

There are guys, they just aren't huge impact guys yet. The reality is that there are hardly any Undrafted players in the NBA that are in a teams top 8. Raptors have a very good history with Undrafted guys but it is extremely unlikely that they will develop into rotation guys. The Miami Heat are the exception, not the rule. Please tell me of these other teams in the NBA that has hit on 2 serious Undrafted guys in the last 2 decades, let alone the last 5 years. The fact that the Raptors have had 2 legit rotation guys that were Undrafted puts us in the upper echelon.

Nowell career minutes in the NBA = 4
Gueye career minutes in the NBA = 6
Oshae career minutes in the NBA = 3702 Only 135mp for the Raptors
Porter career minutes in the NBA = 275 212mp for the Raptors
Champagnie career minutes in the NBA = 325 281mp for the raptors

If this is your measure for success, sweet christ you need to raise your bar. Oshae is by far the greatest success, and it isn't even a success since his minutes have been all on other teams. I don't care if we find the next MJ undrafted, if he plays for another team. The only guy on that list to play significant minutes in the NBA, we waived after 135 minutes.

Yeah, you're really proving me wrong here lol.

I'm not looking for a starter, or even a top 8 player. But some actual useful bench pieces. Boucher is about the only one we still have.

You asked for the last 5 years, yet you aren't willing to give these guys a chance to develop and become rotation players. These guys aren't going into the NBA and being given mins.

And Yet you haven't named a single team beyond Miami that has successfully developed all these amazing Undrafted players in the last 5 years. I guess you are really proving me wrong.

NB2K has a good list of undrafted players currently in the NBA today.
https://www.2kratings.com/lists/undrafted-nba-players

Of the list of 126, 9 can be accredited to the Raptors. (Fred VanVleet, Chris Boucher, Oshae Brisset, Justin Champagnie, Javon Freeman Liberty, Jontay Porter, Mamadou Gueue, DJ Carton and Markquis Nowell......maybe you can also include Yuta Watanabe as the Raps were the first team to really give him real minutes and a role in the league).

Overall, there are maybe only about 15 players worth noting across the entire league of 30 teams. Theres really nothing to complain about here as outside of the Heat, I dont know if theres a team out there with a better track record than the Raptors who have consistently given undrafted players real opportunity vs other teams.

Fans who are whining about this are probably struggling to understand the actual frequency of occurence of undrafted players turning into something of significance.

[DreamTeam09]

JFL avg 34pts over the last 4 games in the GL

[Scase]

Oshae Brisset, Johntay Porter, Justin Champaigne, Gueye, Marquis Nowell.

There are guys, they just aren't huge impact guys yet. The reality is that there are hardly any Undrafted players in the NBA that are in a teams top 8. Raptors have a very good history with Undrafted guys but it is extremely unlikely that they will develop into rotation guys. The Miami Heat are the exception, not the rule. Please tell me of these other teams in the NBA that has hit on 2 serious Undrafted guys in the last 2 decades, let alone the last 5 years. The fact that the Raptors have had 2 legit rotation guys that were Undrafted puts us in the upper echelon.

Nowell career minutes in the NBA = 4
Gueye career minutes in the NBA = 6
Oshae career minutes in the NBA = 3702 Only 135mp for the Raptors
Porter career minutes in the NBA = 275 212mp for the Raptors
Champagnie career minutes in the NBA = 325 281mp for the raptors

If this is your measure for success, sweet christ you need to raise your bar. Oshae is by far the greatest success, and it isn't even a success since his minutes have been all on other teams. I don't care if we find the next MJ undrafted, if he plays for another team. The only guy on that list to play significant minutes in the NBA, we waived after 135 minutes.

Yeah, you're really proving me wrong here lol.

I'm not looking for a starter, or even a top 8 player. But some actual useful bench pieces. Boucher is about the only one we still have.

You asked for the last 5 years, yet you aren't willing to give these guys a chance to develop and become rotation players. These guys aren't going into the NBA and being given mins.

And Yet you haven't named a single team beyond Miami that has successfully developed all these amazing Undrafted players in the last 5 years. I guess you are really proving me wrong.

If people want to keep jerking off this FO for their apparent drafting prowess, then along with that comes the criticism when they don't do anything with said prowess.

OKC - Dort
SAS - Eubanks
LAC - Amir Coffey
MEM - Yuta (No, not the Raps.)
MIN - Naz Reid
GSW - Boucher (No, not the Raps.) Technically 2017 though, so we'll say this one doesn't count.
TOR - Oshae
CHA - Caleb Martin
CHI - Struss
NOP - Naji Marshall and Alvarado
CLE - Dean Wade
MIA - Duncan Robinson
BOS - Sam Hauser
LAL - Austin Reeves
WAS - Garrison Matthews

There, an entire list of undrafted players and the teams who originally gave them the start in the NBA. If you want to attribute Oshae to the Raps despite not playing or developing him at all, we don't get Yuta or Boucher.


Miami loses Struss and Martin, still has Duncan. All of those players above, are NBA level players.

You will need to pick a lane though, either you are giving credit to the team who first played them, or the team who developed them. No matter which way you slice it, Raptors are in the bottom of that group.

So in the last 5 years, our one claim to fame is Oshae, and we didn't develop him at all. Jontay is way too early to say, he hasnt played a single minute in the last 3 games, and only saw real minutes due to injuries. Not exactly sure I would use Champagnie as a shining example either, 4th team in basically 2 years and just got waived twice, and on a 10 day with the Wizards.

Hows that?

[Dalek]

JFL avg 34pts over the last 4 games in the GL

I think it is weird that he hasn't played much at all with the big club. Jontae got a run when we needed a big, but now that we dumped Schroeder we could use another guard.

I will say that DJ Carton looks like more of playmaking guard. JFL is just a scoring machine but not a natural PG as much.

[DreamTeam09]

JFL avg 34pts over the last 4 games in the GL

I think it is weird that he hasn't played much at all with the big club. Jontae got a run when we needed a big, but now that we dumped Schroeder we could use another guard.

I will say that DJ Carton looks like more of playmaking guard. JFL is just a scoring machine but not a natural PG as much.

You wanna give reps to Point Scotty, best way to do that is at the back-up PG position.

[disoblige]

If people want to keep jerking off this FO for their apparent drafting prowess, then along with that comes the criticism when they don't do anything with said prowess.

OKC - Dort
SAS - Eubanks
LAC - Amir Coffey
MEM - Yuta (No, not the Raps.)
MIN - Naz Reid
GSW - Boucher (No, not the Raps.) Technically 2017 though, so we'll say this one doesn't count.
TOR - Oshae
CHA - Caleb Martin
CHI - Struss
NOP - Naji Marshall and Alvarado
CLE - Dean Wade
MIA - Duncan Robinson
BOS - Sam Hauser
LAL - Austin Reeves
WAS - Garrison Matthews

There, an entire list of undrafted players and the teams who originally gave them the start in the NBA. If you want to attribute Oshae to the Raps despite not playing or developing him at all, we don't get Yuta or Boucher.


Miami loses Struss and Martin, still has Duncan. All of those players above, are NBA level players.

You will need to pick a lane though, either you are giving credit to the team who first played them, or the team who developed them. No matter which way you slice it, Raptors are in the bottom of that group.

So in the last 5 years, our one claim to fame is Oshae, and we didn't develop him at all. Jontay is way too early to say, he hasnt played a single minute in the last 3 games, and only saw real minutes due to injuries. Not exactly sure I would use Champagnie as a shining example either, 4th team in basically 2 years and just got waived twice, and on a 10 day with the Wizards.

Hows that?

Are these players average or above average players? How many of these are "a player no one was expecting"?

When does this team hit on a player no one was expecting? The heat have found like what 2 or 3 in the last few years, we can't even find 1 in 5ish.

You will need to pick a lane though, either you are giving credit to the team who first played them, or the team who developed them. No matter which way you slice it, Raptors are in the bottom of that group.

This guy lost his mind. Raptors scouted and developed Fred and Boucher, which is better than arguably your all or most the players on the list.

Development is yearly so this count as development in recent years. Fred's development.

[bluerap23]

Nowell career minutes in the NBA = 4
Gueye career minutes in the NBA = 6
Oshae career minutes in the NBA = 3702 Only 135mp for the Raptors
Porter career minutes in the NBA = 275 212mp for the Raptors
Champagnie career minutes in the NBA = 325 281mp for the raptors

If this is your measure for success, sweet christ you need to raise your bar. Oshae is by far the greatest success, and it isn't even a success since his minutes have been all on other teams. I don't care if we find the next MJ undrafted, if he plays for another team. The only guy on that list to play significant minutes in the NBA, we waived after 135 minutes.

Yeah, you're really proving me wrong here lol.

I'm not looking for a starter, or even a top 8 player. But some actual useful bench pieces. Boucher is about the only one we still have.

You asked for the last 5 years, yet you aren't willing to give these guys a chance to develop and become rotation players. These guys aren't going into the NBA and being given mins.

And Yet you haven't named a single team beyond Miami that has successfully developed all these amazing Undrafted players in the last 5 years. I guess you are really proving me wrong.

If people want to keep jerking off this FO for their apparent drafting prowess, then along with that comes the criticism when they don't do anything with said prowess.

OKC - Dort
SAS - Eubanks
LAC - Amir Coffey
MEM - Yuta (No, not the Raps.)
MIN - Naz Reid
GSW - Boucher (No, not the Raps.) Technically 2017 though, so we'll say this one doesn't count.
TOR - Oshae
CHA - Caleb Martin
CHI - Struss
NOP - Naji Marshall and Alvarado
CLE - Dean Wade
MIA - Duncan Robinson
BOS - Sam Hauser
LAL - Austin Reeves
WAS - Garrison Matthews

There, an entire list of undrafted players and the teams who originally gave them the start in the NBA. If you want to attribute Oshae to the Raps despite not playing or developing him at all, we don't get Yuta or Boucher.


Miami loses Struss and Martin, still has Duncan. All of those players above, are NBA level players.

You will need to pick a lane though, either you are giving credit to the team who first played them, or the team who developed them. No matter which way you slice it, Raptors are in the bottom of that group.

So in the last 5 years, our one claim to fame is Oshae, and we didn't develop him at all. Jontay is way too early to say, he hasnt played a single minute in the last 3 games, and only saw real minutes due to injuries. Not exactly sure I would use Champagnie as a shining example either, 4th team in basically 2 years and just got waived twice, and on a 10 day with the Wizards.

Hows that?

Thank you for proving my point.

[bluerap23]

JFL avg 34pts over the last 4 games in the GL

I think it is weird that he hasn't played much at all with the big club. Jontae got a run when we needed a big, but now that we dumped Schroeder we could use another guard.

I will say that DJ Carton looks like more of playmaking guard. JFL is just a scoring machine but not a natural PG as much.

Also surprised he still hasn't had a chance. But Porter had a clear path to mins because we were so weak at C when Yak was out.

I'd love to see JFL and DJ get real mins to close out the season.

[Dalek]

Barrett when he doesn't have a lane is pretty useless. HIs defense is so bad.

[niQ]

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[LoveMyRaps]

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LETS GOOOOOOOO

Kids gonna have a bright future!

[Bruin]

I guess with Scottie out he’s gonna get a chance to be the backup PG to IQ. We’re really thin at PG now that Scottie can’t help run things

[LoveMyRaps]

I guess with Scottie out he’s gonna get a chance to be the backup PG to IQ. We’re really thin at PG now that Scottie can’t help run things

We're in safe hands

[deck]

JFL avg 34pts over the last 4 games in the GL

I think it is weird that he hasn't played much at all with the big club. Jontae got a run when we needed a big, but now that we dumped Schroeder we could use another guard.

I will say that DJ Carton looks like more of playmaking guard. JFL is just a scoring machine but not a natural PG as much.

Also surprised he still hasn't had a chance. But Porter had a clear path to mins because we were so weak at C when Yak was out.

I'd love to see JFL and DJ get real mins to close out the season.

I think with Barnes' injury, Jontay should get the call up. I'd rather he get minutes than waste them on Boucher or McDaniels. JFL and DJ hopefully see more time also.