Bobby Webster speaks about the core/future

[PushDaRock]

Took the spurs 2 years after trading Kawhi to know they weren't going anywhere and then gutting their team to get high draft picks. They never trade their picks for quick fixes and shot sighted moves to keep a treadmill going. Now compare that to this FO who took 5 years to see the writing on the wall but during that process they traded first round picks like they were handing out candy. Thats the difference between S tier FO and an average FO.

Like in what world do you give up a first round pick for thad young who was glued to our bench. In what world do you put only a top 6 protection on a pick for JAKOB **** POELTL.

3 years.

and for all that, they still really only have Wemby (amazing) and Vassell (good). Other than that, nobody on that team is good at all and will be around for anything of consequence.\

We need to stop fawning over teams who truly get incredibly lucky and act as if they're geniuses.

You could literally say the same thing about us lucking into Barnes. If we didn't have Barnes this team would be an even bigger dumpster than it already is.

The facts are that we traded first round picks for a mediocre C and a washed up end of the bench player while the spurs kept their picks and got young talent. You forget Keldon Jonhson, Tre Jones and Sohan who are all better young players than what we have outside IQ , Barnes and Barrett. They still have potential 2 top 8 picks this year and tons of cap space to build around a generational superstar talent.

literally no comparison between the two franchises when one side can read the room quickly and make moves while the other side is sitting on their asses hoping that a Poeltl saves the future.

I mean seems like there is a massive difference between "lucking" into Barnes who was projected to go 5th, not even 4th where we picked versus a generational talent like Wemby at #1. I don't know, maybe just a small difference in luck there.

Read the room quickly? They just finished year 5 finishing under .500. Sucking for that long isn't exactly a quick pivot in any shape or form.

[DonDoolie]

Keldon Johnson is an empty calories scorer who will be jettisoned from that team in the near future.
Sochan is a James Johnson type versatile player who is far from any sort of real thing. And is not a better projected player than Dick.
Tre Jone is 'okay' but nothing special.

Wemby and Vassell are the only two prospects of note on that team. Plain and simple.

Sohan is 20 years old. aren't you the same guy that keeps defending players based on their age yet here you are writing off sohan because it doesn't fit your agenda dude is the same age as dick and is a better player. Keldon johnson is a hooper you have no idea what you are talking about he just has injury issues thats it.

I didn't write Sochan off, I said he doesn't project better than dick and is far from the 'real thing'. Using him as a 'look at their prospect stash' is weird.

Keldon Johnson has been a net negative at all times on the court and can't shoot the 3. He'll be 25 next season.

How is it weird to use Sochan as a prospect but when you were using Koloko as a "look at our prospect" that was all fine and dandy typical homer raptor fan behaviour.

Why wouldn't he be a net negative their team has been tanking everyone is a **** net negative that doesn't make him a bad player. Oh right he's 24 years old guys its the end of the world no one can be a good player after 24 right? jesus christ

[Wise80]

and one might as well stop supporting the team if that person actually thought a team would go from 48-34 to 41-41(27-14@home/improvement) despite lockerroom problems, injuries&w/out a much needed center for most of it ....To 25-57 (14-27@home) including a 12-19 with 2 All-Stars and DPOY which is unheard of: A team performing so badly with 2 All-Stars and a DPOY.

That pick we traded for Jakob was supposed to be a ~20th pick which was more than fair for a talented&mobile center entering his prime years with no-major injuries(yet)on his body.

Though injuries derailed our play-in push, Players wise, we are in a great position. For FO's sake, I would have preferred seeing IQ in a pressurized situation (again) before handing him a 25+M/per contract.

The pick should have always been lotto-protected, or even top-10 protected. Pop clearly saw that the team was trending downwards and pushed for lighter protections.

Toronto’s record was very bad at the time of the trade. San Antonio didn’t want a pick that may never convey. Toronto was confident that with Poeltl that the team would be better and they would give a mid 1st round in the bad draft.

The scenario didn’t unfold as expected . I never liked the trade and never will. They went the opposite way I would have gone. But there was a rational to go the way they did.

There's almost always a rational way of thinking when trades are made. You don't get paid for making rational moves. You get paid for the results that come from it. At some point, this front office needs to stop swinging and missing.

If Masai and Bobby would of left after the championship. We'd all be questioning the moves the new front office has made since then.

I'm just glad that era is finally over. Not to make excuses for Masai and Bobby, but I do think there views of these guys were skewed for a few reasons (winning a championship, raising these men from a very young age). Whether they thought they were better than they were, or just genuinely liked them and wanted to win with them. They were playing catch up and patch the leaking boat for like 5 years. And it set them back.

[dTox]

This was the fewest number of games I've ever watched during my Raptors fandom, mainly because I became a new dad but also because it was tough to watch this team without Scottie.

[Merit]

Absolutely no one believed Dennis and McDaniels were the saviors. The Rockets were our saviors for giving out that ridiculous contract and taking FVV off our hands. Masai would've paid FVV 35M+ and we would've had a repeat of last season. At least this season it forced Masai's hand to choose a direction.

We need to trade Siakam for AJ Griffen before it's too late! - PhilBlackson

I don’t know bro. There was a lot of hype for Dennis coming off team Germany and a many believed McD was a solid signing. I basically said Dennis should be okay but McD was likely a journeyman we had no idea if he could even play.

You’re right, a lot of people talked about Dennis being better than FVV at a fraction of the price and how FVV walking was a blessing as it allowed us to use the MLE and sign him. The love for Dennis to begin the season was insanity.

McDaniels was just a BAE though I believe and there wasn’t much talk about him like that - they could have still signed him even with Fred I believe. Oddly, this was the signing that a lot of the smart NBA guys like Hollinger liked. McDaniels completely under performed.

Sadly I was on the mcdaniels overperforming bandwagon. I was definitely in camp bring back Fred though and knew there was no way that Dennis would be as good as Fred.

[Duffman100]

Sohan is 20 years old. aren't you the same guy that keeps defending players based on their age yet here you are writing off sohan because it doesn't fit your agenda dude is the same age as dick and is a better player. Keldon johnson is a hooper you have no idea what you are talking about he just has injury issues thats it.

I didn't write Sochan off, I said he doesn't project better than dick and is far from the 'real thing'. Using him as a 'look at their prospect stash' is weird.

Keldon Johnson has been a net negative at all times on the court and can't shoot the 3. He'll be 25 next season.

How is it weird to use Sochan as a prospect but when you were using Koloko as a "look at our prospect" that was all fine and dandy typical homer raptor fan behaviour.

Why wouldn't he be a net negative their team has been tanking everyone is a **** net negative that doesn't make him a bad player. Oh right he's 24 years old guys its the end of the world no one can be a good player after 24 right? jesus christ

Go be a fan of San Antonio. It seems grass is greener and you vault their players into different tiers than ours.

SA is strategic and smart for Wemby
Raps got lucky with Barnes

All of their prospects are great and ours are terrible.

Listen to yourself... they won 22 games, stop vaulting them into some territory of being amazing.

Also Koloko, like Ochai, had interesting qualities as a prospect. I wasn't saying they were top notch prospects, much like I wouldn't say Sochan is a top notch prospect. One that you seem to think is.

[Merit]

Only on RGM would a $4M end of rotation player generate this much angst lmao

But isn't that what this site is for? For the hardcores to debate the merits of the 15th guy lol? Yeah this only happens on RealGM but I take that as a good thing and is why I love this place.

Anyway, I don't see much "angst" about McDaniels, other than the last few weeks in the GDTs while he's been playing. And that is warranted as nobody can make any serious argument that he isn't one of the worst players in the entire league.

I think any complaining is probably just due to the snowball effect of so many of those "it's only X million" contracts being useless. Some of us correctly said in preseason that we had a tad too many useless guys at the end of the bench. Malachi's "only 4 million", Thad's "only 7 million", OPJ's "only 6 million", Temple's "only 2 million". Along with McD's 4M, that was 23 million against the cap that was basically just lit on fire as cumulatively those guys provided negative value (although I hope we bring Temple back). Add in GTJ's bad start, and Dick being at one point the 2nd worst player in the league statistically, and that is how we end up where we are.

Still love the McD attempt, but they have to start hitting on these. I have also supported all the 10-day signing attempts, because we need to hope we hit on one of them.

Lowry > Temple but agreed on Temple’s value and importance to the team. Am also with you on the 10 days and budget fliers because if even one turns into a Herb Jones or Deni Avdija or yenno - Fred VanVleet - we are exponentially better off.

[PushDaRock]

The pick should have always been lotto-protected, or even top-10 protected. Pop clearly saw that the team was trending downwards and pushed for lighter protections.

Toronto’s record was very bad at the time of the trade. San Antonio didn’t want a pick that may never convey. Toronto was confident that with Poeltl that the team would be better and they would give a mid 1st round in the bad draft.

The scenario didn’t unfold as expected . I never liked the trade and never will. They went the opposite way I would have gone. But there was a rational to go the way they did.

There's almost always a rational way of thinking when trades are made. You don't get paid for making rational moves. You get paid for the results that come from it. At some point, this front office needs to stop swinging and missing.

If Masai and Bobby would of left after the championship. We'd all be questioning the moves the new front office has made since then.

I'm just glad that era is finally over. Not to make excuses for Masai and Bobby, but I do think there views of these guys were skewed for a few reasons (winning a championship, raising these men from a very young age). Whether they thought they were better than they were, or just genuinely liked them and wanted to win with them. They were playing catch up and patch the leaking boat for like 5 years. And it set them back.

They had good reason to like those guys, they're all really good players. Just look at the impact Fred and OG have had on their new teams. Siakam has been good as well for the Pacers. Mistakes were certainly made on that roster though, not surrounding those guys with sufficient shooting and zero depth. The development program which used to be our strength has been a weakness for the last 5 years. Not counting Barnes, we haven't developed anyone into even a legitimate rotational player in the league. Perhaps it was just the insane run of luck hitting on late 1st rounders, 2nd rounders and UDFA's evening out or some hubris, maybe a combination of both which caused that. Free Agency has also been a massive failure under Masai and Bobby. Schroder was arguably their best FA signing ever under them and they dumped him just to get rid of the contract.

[DonDoolie]

I didn't write Sochan off, I said he doesn't project better than dick and is far from the 'real thing'. Using him as a 'look at their prospect stash' is weird.

Keldon Johnson has been a net negative at all times on the court and can't shoot the 3. He'll be 25 next season.

How is it weird to use Sochan as a prospect but when you were using Koloko as a "look at our prospect" that was all fine and dandy typical homer raptor fan behaviour.

Why wouldn't he be a net negative their team has been tanking everyone is a **** net negative that doesn't make him a bad player. Oh right he's 24 years old guys its the end of the world no one can be a good player after 24 right? jesus christ

Go be a fan of San Antonio. It seems grass is greener and you vault their players into different tiers than ours.

SA is strategic and smart for Wemby
Raps got lucky with Barnes

All of their prospects are great and ours are terrible.

Listen to yourself... they won 22 games, stop vaulting them into some territory of being amazing.

Also Koloko, like Ochai, had interesting qualities as a prospect. I wasn't saying they were top notch prospects, much like I wouldn't say Sochan is a top notch prospect. One that you seem to think is.

1) I've watched this team when half our roster was ten day contract players I don't switch sides because we suck.

2) I never said it was strategic of the spurs landing Wemby I just compared it to Scottie being just as lucky for us.

3) I never said their prospects were "great" just that they have better than what we currently have.

4) Who said they were amazing? I just said they are in a much more desirable situation than us because they weren't out there making panic moves to be mediocre and hoping to be an average team.

You are arguing with yourself at this point just twisting what I'm saying

[Los_29]

Took the spurs 2 years after trading Kawhi to know they weren't going anywhere and then gutting their team to get high draft picks. They never trade their picks for quick fixes and shot sighted moves to keep a treadmill going. Now compare that to this FO who took 5 years to see the writing on the wall but during that process they traded first round picks like they were handing out candy. Thats the difference between S tier FO and an average FO.

Like in what world do you give up a first round pick for thad young who was glued to our bench. In what world do you put only a top 6 protection on a pick for JAKOB **** POELTL.

Your math is way off. It took them FOUR years to realize they weren’t going anywhere.

[Duffman100]

How is it weird to use Sochan as a prospect but when you were using Koloko as a "look at our prospect" that was all fine and dandy typical homer raptor fan behaviour.

Why wouldn't he be a net negative their team has been tanking everyone is a **** net negative that doesn't make him a bad player. Oh right he's 24 years old guys its the end of the world no one can be a good player after 24 right? jesus christ

Go be a fan of San Antonio. It seems grass is greener and you vault their players into different tiers than ours.

SA is strategic and smart for Wemby
Raps got lucky with Barnes

All of their prospects are great and ours are terrible.

Listen to yourself... they won 22 games, stop vaulting them into some territory of being amazing.

Also Koloko, like Ochai, had interesting qualities as a prospect. I wasn't saying they were top notch prospects, much like I wouldn't say Sochan is a top notch prospect. One that you seem to think is.

1) I've watched this team when half our roster was ten day contract players I don't switch sides because we suck.

2) I never said it was strategic of the spurs landing Wemby I just compared it to Scottie being just as lucky for us.

3) I never said their prospects were "great" just that they have better than what we currently have.

4) Who said they were amazing? I just said they are in a much more desirable situation than us because they weren't out there making panic moves to be mediocre and hoping to be an average team.

You are arguing with yourself at this point just twisting what I'm saying

You just spent 3-4 posts arguing that they are an elite FO (despite not being that for the last 6 year, same as us). You also said that they had a better prospect stash than we did (despite outsite of Wemby and Vassell, all their guys are medicore to meh).

So no, I'm not arguing with myself. I'm showing you that SA isn't this green pasture of amazing and if they didn't get incredibly lucky to get Wemby, they'd be on track to win 20 games for the next 3-4 years. Hell, they still might...

[Merit]

The only real piece remains Scottie, and I have real questions about whether he’s a Batman. The rest range from middling to great supporting players who are much more interchangeable and easily acquired pieces. This draft isn’t great but still might contain legit pieces, harder to say right now. Ideally they are in the high lottery next couple years, but the organization has never been able to commit to more than one half-rebuilding year and I suspect that will continue here and we’ll see more of the quick fix type moves that have defined this franchise pretty much since we got out of the expansion era.

Nailing the draft represents the biggest swing in fortunes.

Let’s say 3 of the moves are draft picks. That means there’s 2-7 more moves in the offseason/near future. I feel the “beginnings” of a core statement aligns with what you’re suggesting. Unfortunately unless we outright tank next season - which also makes a world of sense - then yes, it’s likely to be as you suggest in terms of “quick fix” fliers.

[PoundTown]

they need to hit on the draft

Need to add some serious talent to the bench.

Our bench has been dreadful for years. This draft is an opportunity to fix all those issues.

I believe in Masai!

Starting lineup:
Quickley
Barrett
Ochai (mainly for defensive purposes and cutting ability)
Barnes
Poeltl

Bench:
Dick
Olynyk
JFL


Yup - bench needs serious upgrades. One injury in the starting lineup and the whole season will go to sh*t again.
We have very limited depth. Need some playmakers and shooters.

I think Bruce Brown is supposed to be that core bench player for trading siakam. Turns out he doesn't even want to be here. We are off to a 0 - 1 start.
Normally in these trade you get one or two known commodities, and BB is the one that fits the bill.

We should trade Bruce. Sometimes it’s not a fit. Maybe gabe Vincent for Bruce or something. Something that just gets us back a contributing rotation player.

[DonDoolie]

Go be a fan of San Antonio. It seems grass is greener and you vault their players into different tiers than ours.

SA is strategic and smart for Wemby
Raps got lucky with Barnes

All of their prospects are great and ours are terrible.

Listen to yourself... they won 22 games, stop vaulting them into some territory of being amazing.

Also Koloko, like Ochai, had interesting qualities as a prospect. I wasn't saying they were top notch prospects, much like I wouldn't say Sochan is a top notch prospect. One that you seem to think is.

1) I've watched this team when half our roster was ten day contract players I don't switch sides because we suck.

2) I never said it was strategic of the spurs landing Wemby I just compared it to Scottie being just as lucky for us.

3) I never said their prospects were "great" just that they have better than what we currently have.

4) Who said they were amazing? I just said they are in a much more desirable situation than us because they weren't out there making panic moves to be mediocre and hoping to be an average team.

You are arguing with yourself at this point just twisting what I'm saying

You just spent 3-4 posts arguing that they are an elite FO (despite not being that for the last 6 year, same as us). You also said that they had a better prospect stash than we did (despite outsite of Wemby and Vassell, all their guys are medicore to meh).

So no, I'm not arguing with myself. I'm showing you that SA isn't this green pasture of amazing and if they didn't get incredibly lucky to get Wemby, they'd be on track to win 20 games for the next 3-4 years. Hell, they still might...

You haven't shown me ****. All you have said is "their guys are mediocre" like you're some know it all basketball genius as if whatever you say must be true

Believe what you want to believe and I'll do the same I think we are at the point of going in circles now.

[Duffman100]

1) I've watched this team when half our roster was ten day contract players I don't switch sides because we suck.

2) I never said it was strategic of the spurs landing Wemby I just compared it to Scottie being just as lucky for us.

3) I never said their prospects were "great" just that they have better than what we currently have.

4) Who said they were amazing? I just said they are in a much more desirable situation than us because they weren't out there making panic moves to be mediocre and hoping to be an average team.

You are arguing with yourself at this point just twisting what I'm saying

You just spent 3-4 posts arguing that they are an elite FO (despite not being that for the last 6 year, same as us). You also said that they had a better prospect stash than we did (despite outsite of Wemby and Vassell, all their guys are medicore to meh).

So no, I'm not arguing with myself. I'm showing you that SA isn't this green pasture of amazing and if they didn't get incredibly lucky to get Wemby, they'd be on track to win 20 games for the next 3-4 years. Hell, they still might...

You haven't shown me ****. All you have said is "their guys are mediocre" like you're some know it all basketball genius as if whatever you say must be true

Believe what you want to believe and I'll do the same I think we are at the point of going in circles now.

You honestly believe Keldon Johnson is a positive player who contributes to winning and will be a key cog in their future plans?

[Merit]

Good FO vs great FO on display. It's pathetic when another FO can better predict your teams trajectory than your own.

Spurs have really been dominating the past 6 years.

Real interesting you decided on exactly 6 years.

It's almost like it's a bad faith argument, almost like that was the end of 20 years straight of making deep playoff runs, and 5 championships.

The Spurs objectively, by every measurement, have and always have had a much better FO than us. This isn't even up for debate, they arguably have one of the best FOs in pro sports. Your constant defence of this FO is impressive, if not braindead.

As usual, you don't need the personal attack. Warned.

It’s funny how you can credit the spurs for a rebuild but not give our FO the time to execute a rebuild.

[Merit]

Raps started the season with 2 veteran leaders/role models, Thad and Temple. 3 if you count Otto. Down to just Garrett now. Do they bring him back? I think first priority is keeping him and adding another vet well past his prime to replace Thad.

We got Demar and Kyle coming in LOL

[Badonkadonk]

Only on RGM would a $4M end of rotation player generate this much angst lmao

But isn't that what this site is for? For the hardcores to debate the merits of the 15th guy lol? Yeah this only happens on RealGM but I take that as a good thing and is why I love this place.

Anyway, I don't see much "angst" about McDaniels, other than the last few weeks in the GDTs while he's been playing. And that is warranted as nobody can make any serious argument that he isn't one of the worst players in the entire league.

I think any complaining is probably just due to the snowball effect of so many of those "it's only X million" contracts being useless. Some of us correctly said in preseason that we had a tad too many useless guys at the end of the bench. Malachi's "only 4 million", Thad's "only 7 million", OPJ's "only 6 million", Temple's "only 2 million". Along with McD's 4M, that was 23 million against the cap that was basically just lit on fire as cumulatively those guys provided negative value (although I hope we bring Temple back). Add in GTJ's bad start, and Dick being at one point the 2nd worst player in the league statistically, and that is how we end up where we are.

Still love the McD attempt, but they have to start hitting on these. I have also supported all the 10-day signing attempts, because we need to hope we hit on one of them.

Lowry > Temple but agreed on Temple’s value and importance to the team. Am also with you on the 10 days and budget fliers because if even one turns into a Herb Jones or Deni Avdija or yenno - Fred VanVleet - we are exponentially better off.

Yep I think the team got away from that, and whether it's more 10 days or the bi-annual exception (i.e. JMD's contract) you need to consistently taking these shots to maximize those 11-15th spots on the roster while (hopefully) hitting the rare home run.

Yeah Jalen bombed, but based on how his time with the Sixers went + age + the potential for some untapped upside, a gamble made sense at the time (not sure who else they'd have gambled on with the bi-annual), so I hope they're not dissuaded from doing so again on players.

[Merit]

I think sometimes it can take a full season just to install the offense, especially one predicated on making quick decisions with lots of ball and player movement. We might see a better defensive product in year 2.

Agreed, especially when retaining a top 6 pick is also on the table.

If it were me, next season is a tank season too.

[dTox]

Go be a fan of San Antonio. It seems grass is greener and you vault their players into different tiers than ours.

SA is strategic and smart for Wemby
Raps got lucky with Barnes

All of their prospects are great and ours are terrible.

Listen to yourself... they won 22 games, stop vaulting them into some territory of being amazing.

Also Koloko, like Ochai, had interesting qualities as a prospect. I wasn't saying they were top notch prospects, much like I wouldn't say Sochan is a top notch prospect. One that you seem to think is.

1) I've watched this team when half our roster was ten day contract players I don't switch sides because we suck.

2) I never said it was strategic of the spurs landing Wemby I just compared it to Scottie being just as lucky for us.

3) I never said their prospects were "great" just that they have better than what we currently have.

4) Who said they were amazing? I just said they are in a much more desirable situation than us because they weren't out there making panic moves to be mediocre and hoping to be an average team.

You are arguing with yourself at this point just twisting what I'm saying

You just spent 3-4 posts arguing that they are an elite FO (despite not being that for the last 6 year, same as us). You also said that they had a better prospect stash than we did (despite outsite of Wemby and Vassell, all their guys are medicore to meh).

So no, I'm not arguing with myself. I'm showing you that SA isn't this green pasture of amazing and if they didn't get incredibly lucky to get Wemby, they'd be on track to win 20 games for the next 3-4 years. Hell, they still might...

Has the Spurs FO proven to be elite yet? This is a new regime under Brian Wright, RC Buford is the CEO and no longer is involved with roster decisions, so we can't hand a new regime credit for what the predecessor did.