Masai: "Scottie isn't a shot maker right now but that will grow. You build around him for his winning mentality"

[PhilBlackson]

Not at all bothered by what he's saying because quite frankly I don't buy it and I see it for what it is...

Masai can't say on record he doesn't believe in him to reach that level, he literally CAN'T or he would start a huge unnecessary distraction and tension between Scottie & the franchise which would be disastrous for the "vibes" and really ruining the franchise's reputation as one that's supportive of it's players.

As for the "criticisms" of Scottie, personally I'm not gonna rip apart his game. The reality is despite him not reaching the level we all wish he was, he's ALREADY far exceeded expectations. This was a kid projected to be another Ben Simmons/Draymond Green type and of course there's some strong similarities in his transition game, passing and mobility with the ball in his hands but despite not being an elite scorer, he's still WAY better than both of those two. If you told most people that you'd get a "Simmons/Draymond" type that will average 20+ppg (I believe he eventually plateau in the 22-24ppg range) that's a FANTASTIC outcome for a top 4 pick....

BUT we can no longer pretend he's on the trajectory of that of a superstar.

Idc what "challenges" there are, as they say "the cream rises to the top" and that's just how it goes. Nothing stops true superstar players from taking over and becoming who they are. Heck I'm still not fully convinced that Cade is a superstar per say but he's closer to being on his way than Scottie and people act like Cade is only ballin this year when in reality he's always been ballin, it's just his supporting cast is starting to make more sense for his game (ie/ adding shooters & vets). Sure he's likely becoming more & more efficient or refined at what he does but almost from day 1, he came in being their best player and even if you want to compare Scottie to the more gradual improving players (most of whom we're not GIVEN the same runway as later picks), by year 3-4, it was OBVIOUS that those players were on a different trajectory and they had BREAKOUT seasons....Scottie has not shown that.

Like DeMar & Pascal (both of whom he's well ahead of by the same age), Scottie will continue to make smaller, incremental improvements that will eventually lead to an almost unrecognizable version from when he was first drafted BUT won't crack the superstar echelon and I think he will be better than both of those guys in his prime but he's still not likely to become a superstar and I think when BI gets started Scottie will naturally fall into his far more suited "Pippen" role.

[PushDaRock]

People talk about TS% as if it's the be all and end all. The Thunder at 16th in the league in TS% behind teams like Detroit, Nets, Spurs, Bulls, 76ers and WIZARDS.

Being able to do other things well can compensate for TS...and as an individual, Barnes does those other things.

That's not accurate, they're 9th in TS% and only 0.5 TS% out from 4th.

Just look at the top 10 on that list, Cavs, Nuggets, Suns, Pacers, Knicks, Bucks, Celtics, Lakers, Thunder, Grizzlies. The top 4 in each division are on in it so we can't pretend like it's not a significant stat. The only outlier is the Suns who are so bad defensively that they still lose a ton of games despite having a very efficient offense.

[brownbobcat]

People talk about TS% as if it's the be all and end all. The Thunder at 16th in the league in TS% behind teams like Detroit, Nets, Spurs, Bulls, 76ers and WIZARDS.

Being able to do other things well can compensate for TS...and as an individual, Barnes does those other things.

That's not accurate - OKC is 9th in TS% and 4th in ORTG, largely helped by taking exceptional care of the ball.
FYI, their only regular who turns the ball over more than Barnes is Hartenstein.

[Tha Cynic]

So, do most people want the Raptors to trade Barnes? Not sure I’m getting the very emphatic negative comments. I’m curious.

[tsherkin]

So, do most people want the Raptors to trade Barnes? Not sure I’m getting the very emphatic negative comments. I’m curious.

If a good deal comes up and it makes sense in context, sure. I don't think we should be forcing it, though. He's got utility to us, just not as a scorer. What we need to do is figure out if that utility matches up to his contract.

People talk about TS% as if it's the be all and end all. The Thunder at 16th in the league in TS% behind teams like Detroit, Nets, Spurs, Bulls, 76ers and WIZARDS.

Being able to do other things well can compensate for TS...and as an individual, Barnes does those other things.

Not in his current role. As a volume scorer, he's a problem because he's useless in that role. Now, what we can do with him once we get him OUT of that role is a separate situation.

[MiamiSPX]

So, do most people want the Raptors to trade Barnes? Not sure I’m getting the very emphatic negative comments. I’m curious.

I don't. I still think he can impact winning once surrounded by better players, which hopefully BI proves to be. We saw it in his rookie year.

It's also important to note that while he has been disappointing, he is not overpaid this season. Boucher makes more than him. Next year at 39M, it's a whole different ballgame if he doesn't take a leap. It doesn't have to be THE leap, but it would be nice for it to be the accepted consensus that he has vastly improved. Another year like this season and I do think the knives come out, considering some of our media don't really care for him anyway (wrongly IMO).

[Vampirate]

He said some interesting, and positive things.

But he also said this:

“Scottie is the main core of this team. I think you build around him because of the winning mentality, because of the winning instincts he has. Yeah, he’s not completely a shot maker now, that will develop, but I think he’s a championship-contending competitor now. He understands the game well enough where this is the rebound to get, this is the steal to get, sometimes the right pass to make, when he’s not over-ambitious, or maybe playing with younger players, or people with not the calibre of where his mind is going at the time. And he does make mistakes now.

And most of that is not what I wanted from a GM I hope to trust.

Just going to say this, if Barnes doesn't seriously improve by Barnes 3rd year in the new contract, Masai is very likely on the hot seat.

Barnes absolutely 'needs' a respectable 3 point shot or he and Masai might be gone before Barnes that contract is up. 19-20 ppg on poor-mid efficiency for the main guy isn't going to cut it unless that person is Chris Paul or Magic Johnson and those 2 are high efficiency 20 ppg players.

Boiling it down, Masai's future on the Raptors hinges on Barnes.

[ForeverTFC]

So, do most people want the Raptors to trade Barnes? Not sure I’m getting the very emphatic negative comments. I’m curious.

I think many of us are questioning why we're building "around him". A lot of the trades we made were to bring in players around Scottie's timeline as the FO has said repeatedly. He's influencing the direction of the roster construction pretty heavily, and I think some of us question if that's the correct approach.

[720]

At age 23? You know, when he was shooting 27.2% from 3.

This is why talking in absolutes is silly. Kyle's 1st AS game was at age 28. Yak's FT shooting jumped this year...who saw that coming.

Just sit back, and enjoy the ride next year when we can cheer for wins compared to losses. Let things play out as they will.

Lowry was a late bloomer. That type of career trajectory is an outlier.

Agreed. But Barnes was also deemed a long term project who would take longer to reach his peak compared to others in his draft class. And yet he won ROTY and was the 1st All Star. Everyone see that coming? No.

People have been wrong about him already yet seems so certain to know exactly what his future is. Absolutes are silly.

That’s true, I remember most of us had low expectations and instead he came out gangbuster, he was supposed to be a high level project type. But he exceeded that quickly.

[brownbobcat]

So, do most people want the Raptors to trade Barnes? Not sure I’m getting the very emphatic negative comments. I’m curious.

His development remains the best chance of Toronto getting a star, but I'm losing hope pretty quickly. I don't see the point in trading him right now unless they miraculously get a young star back.

[MEDIC]

So, do most people want the Raptors to trade Barnes? Not sure I’m getting the very emphatic negative comments. I’m curious.

I think many of us are questioning why we're building "around him". A lot of the trades we made were to bring in players around Scottie's timeline as the FO has said repeatedly. He's influencing the direct of the roster construction pretty heavily, and I think some of us question if that's the correct approach.

It all depends on how you look at it. Maybe for the fans who focus on scoring, we can change the narrative next season & say we are building around BI.

[tsherkin]

Just going to say this, if Barnes doesn't seriously improve by Barnes 3rd year in the new contract, Masai is very likely on the hot seat.

Honestly, if we're waiting until his seventh season for him to become a respectable offensive player, then we're using him the wrong way for 3 seasons. We know what he's good at, and what he isn't, at this point.

Boiling it down, Masai's future on the Raptors hinges on Barnes.

Does it? He'll just move Barnes at some point. He proved that with Pascal, and Siakam was much better on offense than Barnes is now.

[MEDIC]

Lowry was a late bloomer. That type of career trajectory is an outlier.

Agreed. But Barnes was also deemed a long term project who would take longer to reach his peak compared to others in his draft class. And yet he won ROTY and was the 1st All Star. Everyone see that coming? No.

People have been wrong about him already yet seems so certain to know exactly what his future is. Absolutes are silly.

That’s true, I remember most of us had low expectations and instead he came out gangbuster, he was supposed to be a high level project type. But he exceeded that quickly.

Yup. His draft class was supposed to be one of the weakest. Most of the experts thought the no-brainer pick was Suggs & thought the Raptors made a big mistake. If after the draft someone told me that Scottie would be ROY & an allstar in his 1st three seasons, I would have been over the moon.

Scottie came in as a guy who wasn't known for offense. He was 5th pick in a bad draft. It's not like he came.in as a highly touted top 3 pick.

[Raps in 4]

Agreed. But Barnes was also deemed a long term project who would take longer to reach his peak compared to others in his draft class. And yet he won ROTY and was the 1st All Star. Everyone see that coming? No.

People have been wrong about him already yet seems so certain to know exactly what his future is. Absolutes are silly.

That’s true, I remember most of us had low expectations and instead he came out gangbuster, he was supposed to be a high level project type. But he exceeded that quickly.

Yup. His draft class was supposed to be one of the weakest. Most of the experts thought the no-brainer pick was Suggs & thought the Raptors made a big mistake. If after the draft someone told me that Scottie would be ROY & an allstar in his 1st three seasons, I would have been over the moon.

Scottie came in as a guy who wasn't known for offense. He was 5th pick in a bad draft. It's not like he came.in as a highly touted top 3 pick.

What? The draft class was touted as incredibly strong at the time. There was a ton of hype surrounding the top-4 prospects.

[720]

Agreed. But Barnes was also deemed a long term project who would take longer to reach his peak compared to others in his draft class. And yet he won ROTY and was the 1st All Star. Everyone see that coming? No.

People have been wrong about him already yet seems so certain to know exactly what his future is. Absolutes are silly.

That’s true, I remember most of us had low expectations and instead he came out gangbuster, he was supposed to be a high level project type. But he exceeded that quickly.

Yup. His draft class was supposed to be one of the weakest. Most of the experts thought the no-brainer pick was Suggs & thought the Raptors made a big mistake. If after the draft someone told me that Scottie would be ROY & an allstar in his 1st three seasons, I would have been over the moon.

Scottie came in as a guy who wasn't known for offense. He was 5th pick in a bad draft. It's not like he came.in as a highly touted top 3 pick.

I always look back this game vs the Celtics. This was only a few games into his rookie season I believe. Looks so polished.

Watch on YouTube

[Tha Cynic]

So, do most people want the Raptors to trade Barnes? Not sure I’m getting the very emphatic negative comments. I’m curious.

I think many of us are questioning why we're building "around him". A lot of the trades we made were to bring in players around Scottie's timeline as the FO has said repeatedly. He's influencing the direct of the roster construction pretty heavily, and I think some of us question if that's the correct approach.

I mean I see a team accumulating talent at multiple positions. Even if you remove Barnes they’re actually set up to have a balanced roster - so it’s not like they’re building a team to the detriment of something. If this is the point of contention, I don’t see it

[MEDIC]

That’s true, I remember most of us had low expectations and instead he came out gangbuster, he was supposed to be a high level project type. But he exceeded that quickly.

Yup. His draft class was supposed to be one of the weakest. Most of the experts thought the no-brainer pick was Suggs & thought the Raptors made a big mistake. If after the draft someone told me that Scottie would be ROY & an allstar in his 1st three seasons, I would have been over the moon.

Scottie came in as a guy who wasn't known for offense. He was 5th pick in a bad draft. It's not like he came.in as a highly touted top 3 pick.

What? The draft class was touted as incredibly strong at the time. There was a ton of hype surrounding the top-4 prospects.

Usually draft classes are based on franchise.altering talent. I don't recall any of those guys being touted as the next NBA superstars.

I could be wrong though......all it these.drafts are starting to blend into one another. Looking back at that draft, it wasn't all that strong.

[MEDIC]

That’s true, I remember most of us had low expectations and instead he came out gangbuster, he was supposed to be a high level project type. But he exceeded that quickly.

Yup. His draft class was supposed to be one of the weakest. Most of the experts thought the no-brainer pick was Suggs & thought the Raptors made a big mistake. If after the draft someone told me that Scottie would be ROY & an allstar in his 1st three seasons, I would have been over the moon.

Scottie came in as a guy who wasn't known for offense. He was 5th pick in a bad draft. It's not like he came.in as a highly touted top 3 pick.

I always look back this game vs the Celtics. This was only a few games into his rookie season I believe. Looks so polished.

Watch on YouTube

He is playing with better talent & the team is trying to win.

I think we will see a more motivated and "tuned in" version of Scottie next season.

I think all of our players will look hungrier and more more motivated. It has been a tough year. They were basically told from the beginning of the season that winning wasn't a priority.

[Tha Cynic]

That’s true, I remember most of us had low expectations and instead he came out gangbuster, he was supposed to be a high level project type. But he exceeded that quickly.

Yup. His draft class was supposed to be one of the weakest. Most of the experts thought the no-brainer pick was Suggs & thought the Raptors made a big mistake. If after the draft someone told me that Scottie would be ROY & an allstar in his 1st three seasons, I would have been over the moon.

Scottie came in as a guy who wasn't known for offense. He was 5th pick in a bad draft. It's not like he came.in as a highly touted top 3 pick.

I always look back this game vs the Celtics. This was only a few games into his rookie season I believe. Looks so polished.

Watch on YouTube

I called this out last season, but I feel he has bulked up way too much for how we were trying to develop him.

[DreamTeam09]

The expectations of a archetype for a star isn't a one size fits all type of equation. If you're expecting Vince Carter Tmac Kawhi type of star, that's not gonna happen. If you like a Giannis Magic Pippen type of player, that's the end goal here.
Again, your leading scorer doesn't have to be your best player. RJ is currently our leading scorer and you guys can't wait to ship him off for some prototypical 3+D guy