Shams: Raps one of teams to pursue Anthony Davis

[navyblue]

the jays are spending like a rich owner.

Sure, because they're positioned to win. What I was saying is that our corporate owners won't let us be crap over an extended period of time when there are moves which can mitigate that, not that they won't spend.

A rich owner who is just screwing around can afford to pull "love of the game" type things and be patient and what-not, whereas our ownership is motivated to keep us around .500 or better instead of permitting the tank over too many seasons.

we read too much into this, oh corporate owner just wants ok results etc

MLSE(bell/rogers) a corporate owner allowed the leafs to bottom out and tank.

[Jerry Lucas]

Yeah it doesn't sound like teams are going to offer up any of top young players and/or young prospects with upside on cheap rookie deals.

Shams said role players and picks and/or expirings and picks. Seems like the main value the Mavs are going to want back here is draft capital.

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[tsherkin]

Agreed.

But I think the point was more of if Barnes/BI can play with Yak who brings no shooting at all, they can play with a better big guy who does draw attention.

Oh, he can certainly play with AD, I was just arguing the specific notion that AD has anything like consistent 3pt range, because that's wrong.

we read too much into this, oh corporate owner just wants ok results etc

MLSE(bell/rogers) a corporate owner allowed the leafs to bottom out and tank.

They have had TWO seasons with less than 40 wins in the past decade. And then it was a 38-win season. They were certainly crap before that, but building a team in the NHL is also very different than doing so in the NBA, so comparing and contrasting NHL success and tanking versus the NBA isn't really a viable starting point.

[mdenny]

My guess is that we're named simply by being in position to make the trade.

There really arent many teams who are trying to compete, have all their own picks and have multiple rookie contracts on the books.

On the bright side....there's a not 0% chance this could derail the next 3 to 4 years of the Pistons push to compete. I suppose it could work out for them too. But it would be their big gamble.

I'm convinced the raptors WILL make a big trade sometime in the next 18 months for a discounted star (all of whom will have risk). I'd be lying if my own perception of each one isn't anything more than a gut feel. I don't have a good gut feel for this one particularly. There will be more like this coming. I hope we wait.

Despite all the negativity reaulting from our recent losing streak......cmb, walter, dick, shead, 4 picks and 4 swaps is a REALLY good asset base from which to start with in putting together a package. Far better than average amongst teams trying to win.

Furthermore....working with 5 legit starting players ALSO allows us to add a starter to the deal without having to plug in a non-starting caliber player AFTER the deal is made (which is often the case after big trades).

[PhilBlackson]

Personally I want nothing to do with AD, with the only obv exception being if there were no picks involved but with a competitive market that’s not gonna happen.

But Davis will never be able to make it through an intense Playoffs at this age, after all these injuries AND he’s starting to put on weight/get fat. That’s a recipe for disaster. The only damn reason he got through that Bubble Ring tourney was obvious all the time off in between.

But his glass body can’t handle the rigours of a season & post season and that’s not even mentioning our aggressive defensive system that will demand a lot of him …and of course he’ll have to play C which he hates because he only gets hurt even easier that way lol….DO NOT WANT

The only way I like our names in this is if we’re trying to play a chess move to drive up the price on the other 2 and let one of the burn their assets.

[Tor_Raps]

If we get AD the way we got Ingram then sure. The least we'd have to give in a 3 way trade is sending out Poeltl + RJ + Ochai for AD.

Problem is we have no starting calibre SG after this trade and are hanging our future on Ingram's/AD's health, which is funny lol

[YogurtProducer]

Yeah, AD is a play you make when you are on year 5 of winning 50+ games, have a ton of depth, and need to take a risk (ala - Kawhi in 2019).

Not year 1 of maybe finishing with an above .500 record.

Yes, this, exactly.

Trading a lightly protected lottery pick for BI is the type of trade you make when you've reached the playoffs for a couple years and looking for some added juice, but that was made after an unplanned tank.

We were in the mix for a near 40yo KD just this summer. The FO doesn't believe in organic growth, it believes in reaching a floor at all costs, immediately. And that you can trade your way out of any problem, until you are forced to tank mid-year.

That's how we got Jak, IQ, RJ and BI. Nothing out of the ordinary here.

Trading a single pick and salary ballast for a 28 year old is not the same as trading key rotation pieces for a 32 year old.

Also this “FO doesn’t believe in organic growth” is a load of crap

[tsherkin]

Trading a single pick and salary ballast for a 28 year old is not the same as trading key rotation pieces for a 32 year old.

Also this “FO doesn’t believe in organic growth” is a load of crap

Indeed.

[YogurtProducer]

Furthermore....working with 5 legit starting players ALSO allows us to add a starter to the deal without having to plug in a non-starting caliber player AFTER the deal is made (which is often the case after big trades).

This isn’t true. We can’t match salaries for those high paid guys without 2 starters going on

[iBall101]

The package gotta be Jakob + IQ. No way is RJ being dealt. I would bet on it. Bobby gets out both of those contracts while Raps form a big 3 of Ingram-Barnes-AD.

[ciueli]

I actually think I'm in favour of a trade like this for once. The front office had endless chances to build properly through the draft and instead they've squandered them all to try and compete. I think the front office was stupid to go this way, but the decision was made. They didn't keep the Indiana pick, they didn't trade for the Pelicans' pick, in spite of the recent losses this team is too good to land anything more than a late lottery pick in future drafts, this is where they are now.

If the trade is RJ + Jak + one of Ochai/CMB + pick I think it's reasonable. Maybe that's not enough to get it done, but it makes sense to give up at least that much as this team isn't going anywhere with Jak at starting centre getting outplayed by guys on vet minimum deals and sitting back to back games for the next four seasons.

[Merit]

doesnt make sense, just dallas/clutch trying to make a bigger trade market for him

A player who’s been constantly injured but when is heathy can play at an all nba level is available for trade at a diminished value?

That sounds right up Bobby’s alley.

Totally fair.

[Spates]

I guess he's going to Atlanta. Trae and change for AD

[Merit]

I guess he's going to Atlanta. Trae and change for AD

Did you forget Dallas still has Kyrie?

[Spates]

I guess he's going to Atlanta. Trae and change for AD

Did you forget Dallas still has Kyrie?

He's another potential trade candidate in my book.

[tsherkin]

I guess he's going to Atlanta. Trae and change for AD

Did you forget Dallas still has Kyrie?

Big difference in styles between those two. Trae is a very good playmaker. Kyrie is much more of a scorer, and is also pretty capable off-ball, whereas Trae is a lot less useful without the ball in his hands. They'd co-exist well enough, the way Kyrie did with Luka and Lebron.

[Merit]

I think it’s more likely that the trade is a 3 or 4 way trade involving Atlanta, Detroit, Toronto and Dallas. That said, I would be interested in a trade only with Toronto and Dallas as there are plenty of players on Dallas who are playing less than their ability suggests they could.

Davis, Russell, Lively, Powell and Nembhard for IQ, Jakob, Ochai, Gradey, Mogbo and a future first in 2027.

The Raps get Davis, shore up their big situation and hope for a bounceback from D’Angelo Russell, while hedging their bets by also acquiring Nembhard. If Russell bounces back, it’s a MASSIVE win for the raps. They also get two more Canadians on the roster.

PG Russell/Shead/Nembhard
SG RJ/Jakobe
SF BI/Battle
PF Scottie/CMB
C AD/Lively/Mamu/Powell

Yes, I know Davis doesn’t want to play C, and he won’t against giants like Embiid. This vastly improves our depth as we have the ability to play Russell + Shead or Nembhard together; we can rotate BI and Scottie at the 3/4 and we can give AD a breather via Lively, Mamu and Scottie. The great thing about AD is he’s a net positve defender as well.

I’m not sure whether I prefer our current trajectory where we are growing incrementally or whether I prefer going all in in this way. What made me propose this trade was the Canadian content, the upside of providing a better role for Lively and the possibility of a bounceback/return to form for D’Angelo Russell. Jason Kidd’s rotations are madness right now, and I hope some role stability for those we acquire makes a difference. Ultimately we’re 7 wins better so that’s a definite plus.

[Merit]

I guess he's going to Atlanta. Trae and change for AD

Did you forget Dallas still has Kyrie?

Big difference in styles between those two. Trae is a very good playmaker. Kyrie is much more of a scorer, and is also pretty capable off-ball, whereas Trae is a lot less useful without the ball in his hands. They'd co-exist well enough, the way Kyrie did with Luka and Lebron.

Offensively, yes. Defensively heck no.

[tsherkin]

Offensively, yes. Defensively heck no.

Sure, it wouldn't be an amazing defensive duo. They do have the bigs to theoretically work around that, especially since they aren't shaping up to contend with any vigor any time immediate, though.

[Merit]

Offensively, yes. Defensively heck no.

Sure, it wouldn't be an amazing defensive duo. They do have the bigs to theoretically work around that, especially since they aren't shaping up to contend with any vigor any time immediate, though.

If they’re looking to lose, sure - they can acquire Trae. Would he stay if that’s the plan? Probably not.