Decision making during our "rebuild" has been shockingly terrible. Review of timeline + path forward

[MikeM]

This board would have us in a better spot. It's inarguable. We have multiple anchor contracts. Quickley and Poeltl are diabolical contracts.

If you argue any of the above, you need your head examined.

[VanWest82]

Again why in the F would we not be allowed to make a beneficial trade to set you up in a better position than what you are currently in now? Why the hell would anyone care if we gave up CMB....A mid level prospect for a legit good 2026 Unprotected FRP?....You just sound as moronic as Bobby was when he didn't accept the deal when it was offered.....Thats a deal you take because you can compete still and be a "Mid team" like we are now while also having another team tank for you....Its a win/win situation....No one and i repeat no one would be losing sleep missing out on CMB for a top 5 2026 draft pick...

Again, Raptors tanked for two straight years and sold their fanbase on the idea of draft hope. To then turn around and have literally nothing to show for it on the court is dangerous if you're in the business of selling tickets and TV advertizing. You've already decided that CMB sucks and no one cares about him, but Raptors certainly haven't marketed him that way. In a vacuum, of course they should've done that deal. Also, lots of fans seem to like CMB (see CMB thread).

And no im just pointing out the obvious flaws with the team and the horrible bad moves made for the past years that got us to this point of being a mid team with bad contracts and no good young prospects....Sounds like you are just delusional on the upside of the team which is fine....But i am sure i will be the right one in the direction where this ultimatly ends up going....Bobby fired, Blow up in a year or two...

Even if that's how it turns out, you won't necessarily be right because you have no way of knowing how things might've turned out had we not traded for Ingram and tried tanking again this year. That easily could've turned into a far worse situation than the current team going nowhere and switching course again summer of 2026. At least with current strategy, we're attempting to develop guys in a winning environment and potentially increasing trade value (e.g. Scottie and RJ). Your rebuttals are also mostly pejoratives and ad hominem insults rather than actual arguments so to whatever degree you might've been right it's most likely be accident given you're not coherently arguing the position.

[Clutch0z24]

Again why in the F would we not be allowed to make a beneficial trade to set you up in a better position than what you are currently in now? Why the hell would anyone care if we gave up CMB....A mid level prospect for a legit good 2026 Unprotected FRP?....You just sound as moronic as Bobby was when he didn't accept the deal when it was offered.....Thats a deal you take because you can compete still and be a "Mid team" like we are now while also having another team tank for you....Its a win/win situation....No one and i repeat no one would be losing sleep missing out on CMB for a top 5 2026 draft pick...

Again, Raptors tanked for two straight years and sold their fanbase on the idea of draft hope. To then turn around and have literally nothing to show for it on the court is dangerous if you're in the business of selling tickets and TV advertizing. You've already decided that CMB sucks and no one cares about him, but Raptors certainly haven't marketed him that way. In a vacuum, of course they should've done that deal.

And no im just pointing out the obvious flaws with the team and the horrible bad moves made for the past years that got us to this point of being a mid team with bad contracts and no good young prospects....Sounds like you are just delusional on the upside of the team which is fine....But i am sure i will be the right one in the direction where this ultimatly ends up going....Bobby fired, Blow up in a year or two...

Even if that's how it turns out, you won't necessarily be right because you have no way of knowing how things might've turned out had we not traded for Ingram and tried tanking again this year. That easily could've turned into a far worse situation than the current team going nowhere and switching course again summer of 2026. At least with current strategy, we're attempting to develop guys in a winning environment and potentially increasing trade value (e.g. Scottie and RJ). Your rebuttals are also mostly pejoratives and ad hominem insults rather than actual arguments so to whatever degree you might've been right it's most likely be accident given you're not coherently arguing the position.

Again...if you think we actually tried to tank the right way for 2 years is hilarious to me....We tried to win the last two years we just sucked....Last year we tried to win at the start of the year and quickly realized we sucked so we strated to tank....We didn't have a pick since we traded it in 2024 ....No incentive to tank....

And i am right this team is not as good as you are trying to make it out to be....And no one said CMB sucks man....I said a top 5 2026 Draft pick is 100000x more valuble than CMB ever will be and there is no arguing that....Idk wtf you are trying to argue tbh are you trying to say we are a potential finals run team in the making? Or you are happy being middle of the pack team? with no real upside to improve on it? I have no idea what your position is but yeah i will be right this team will ultimatly end in us tanking again in a few years with nothing to show for but a first round or another play in loss....With more low tier prospects...

[Indeed]

Scottie is a top 25 player in the NBA for some of you guys who don't actually watch the games.

I watched every single Raptors games prior to this year, do you know how hard to watch them and focus on every movement?
He is not a 1st nor 2nd option, he is not best defender on the team, so how is he a top 25 player in the NBA? How is he a top 25 player when he is not even the best player on the team. I would argue Ingram is the best player, and we couldn't score without Ingram (last year) and Barrett (this year). I think Barrett is a better player with his PnR and floater improvement since last year, yet, I don't think he is a near-max player, let alone Barnes.

Scottie is easily the best defender on our team and a candidate for all defense this year. I believe he's still the league leader in stocks.

Stats or stocks, yes, defensive rating is not, and neither he is a C.
He might be our best defender, or CMB, particularly defending players at his size. However, we were also against some weaker offensive teams.

[wegotthabeet]

I think Bobby needs a short leash. He needs to prove he operates differently from Masai.

His first major move will tell us everything.

[earthtone]

This board would have us in a better spot. It's inarguable. We have multiple anchor contracts. Quickley and Poeltl are diabolical contracts.

If you argue any of the above, you need your head examined.

Is this sarcasm? Genuine question

[JN]

Honestly when we reverse back to that pivotal timeframe prior to us trading for Poeltl, and before setting this horrible current treadmill trajectory we are now living..

- At the time we were 5th worse in the league (the draft slot which eventually won Wemby).

Before stating the following let's make it clear that I found the Poeltl trade to be an egregious mistake at the time. Lot of it before was "OK" / partly reasonable and was over-dramatized here. But the Poeltl trade, oh my.

That being said the bolded comment above is a pretty large misrepresentation.
5th worse didn't sound right at all. So I checked. We were 10th at time, not 5th. We were 3.5 games out of 5th place (26-30 vs 22-33). And with 26 games left to go 3.5 games don't get made up easily.

The Spurs got their pick going 22-60. We would have to somehow get -4 wins out of 26 to get that draft slot (go -4 wins and 34 losses over the final 30 games to tie that). Even Jontay Porter couldn't have found a way to help us get to that slot.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/?month=2&day=8&year=2023

Again not an excuse to trade for Poeltl. Just stupid timing to head that direction at that particular deadline.

[JB7]

This board would have us in a better spot. It's inarguable. We have multiple anchor contracts. Quickley and Poeltl are diabolical contracts.

If you argue any of the above, you need your head examined.

Is this sarcasm? Genuine question

I believe so, and after reading these posts, I came away feeling the same thing.

[DreamTeam09]

Because you're the arbitrator over basketball operations on a regular basis. Quickly nor Jakob are diabolical contracts, that's laugh worthy, if you argue that then you need your head examined.

Now what lol ?

This board would have us in a better spot. It's inarguable. We have multiple anchor contracts. Quickley and Poeltl are diabolical contracts.

If you argue any of the above, you need your head examined.

[720]

That's the part that's puzzling to me. We literally put pieces around Scottie to compliment his game and not have him doing stuff he can't do well. He's not much of a screener, so we got Jak. Not much of a shooter, so we got IQ. Not a good driver, so we got RJ. Not a good ISO scorer, so we got Ingram.

People still seem to have this fantasy that he's Giannis light and just needs all shooters around him so he can go to work.

Poeltl, Ingram, RJ, all these guys provide no spacing two of them are bad defenders. They often overlap each other including Barnes on the court. It’s like a less talented version of Siakam, OG and rookie Barnes. We’re only an above .500 team because of Barnes and his impact.

so pretend like he's Giannis light like I said

Sure, let’s half ass building a proper team around the one guy that is actually elite on this team like how we’ve half assed tanking the past 4 years. Waste another half a decade then.

[720]

These are 4 guys with completely different skillsets. So out of curiosity, what type of players do you think would be "complimentary" to Barnes' game?

That's the part that's puzzling to me. We literally put pieces around Scottie to compliment his game and not have him doing stuff he can't do well. He's not much of a screener, so we got Jak. Not much of a shooter, so we got IQ. Not a good driver, so we got RJ. Not a good ISO scorer, so we got Ingram.

People still seem to have this fantasy that he's Giannis light and just needs all shooters around him so he can go to work.

Yep. Scotty was supposed to be the playmaker that would initiate the offense. But he came up very very short in that regard. And now everyone is criticizing IQ's play-making even though that was supposed to be scott's role.

It's not Scotty's fault that he's treated like the golden child. It's crazy that we should all be thankful that he.....keeps playing? We should all be grateful that he doesn't quit? Lol

And ppl are more concerned that his individual stats look good than they are about raptor wins. Scott needs to do more on offense with RJ out. If his efficiency numbers go down because of that....so be it. I swear some ppl WANT him to hide in the corner on offense because they're scared his efficiency numbers will drop lol. Then all the hate gets directed at the players TRYING TO DO SOMETHING.

It makes me wonder if that's part of the problem? Is scotty playing with his efficency numbers in mind? Because it would explain his passivity and deferral.

When Scottie has good games the raptors win, when he doesn’t they almost always lose. It’s not like Ingram, RJ or IQ. Barnes is a high level impact player.

[canz55]

That's the part that's puzzling to me. We literally put pieces around Scottie to compliment his game and not have him doing stuff he can't do well. He's not much of a screener, so we got Jak. Not much of a shooter, so we got IQ. Not a good driver, so we got RJ. Not a good ISO scorer, so we got Ingram.

People still seem to have this fantasy that he's Giannis light and just needs all shooters around him so he can go to work.

Yep. Scotty was supposed to be the playmaker that would initiate the offense. But he came up very very short in that regard. And now everyone is criticizing IQ's play-making even though that was supposed to be scott's role.

It's not Scotty's fault that he's treated like the golden child. It's crazy that we should all be thankful that he.....keeps playing? We should all be grateful that he doesn't quit? Lol

And ppl are more concerned that his individual stats look good than they are about raptor wins. Scott needs to do more on offense with RJ out. If his efficiency numbers go down because of that....so be it. I swear some ppl WANT him to hide in the corner on offense because they're scared his efficiency numbers will drop lol. Then all the hate gets directed at the players TRYING TO DO SOMETHING.

It makes me wonder if that's part of the problem? Is scotty playing with his efficency numbers in mind? Because it would explain his passivity and deferral.

When Scottie has good games the raptors win, when he doesn’t they almost always lose. It’s not like Ingram, RJ or IQ. Barnes is a high level impact player.

There are plenty of games where Barnes has played exceptionally well and the Raps still lose (marginally) but you're right to say that when Scottie mails it in the Raps are virtually guaranteed to not win the game.

[720]

Yep. Scotty was supposed to be the playmaker that would initiate the offense. But he came up very very short in that regard. And now everyone is criticizing IQ's play-making even though that was supposed to be scott's role.

It's not Scotty's fault that he's treated like the golden child. It's crazy that we should all be thankful that he.....keeps playing? We should all be grateful that he doesn't quit? Lol

And ppl are more concerned that his individual stats look good than they are about raptor wins. Scott needs to do more on offense with RJ out. If his efficiency numbers go down because of that....so be it. I swear some ppl WANT him to hide in the corner on offense because they're scared his efficiency numbers will drop lol. Then all the hate gets directed at the players TRYING TO DO SOMETHING.

It makes me wonder if that's part of the problem? Is scotty playing with his efficency numbers in mind? Because it would explain his passivity and deferral.

When Scottie has good games the raptors win, when he doesn’t they almost always lose. It’s not like Ingram, RJ or IQ. Barnes is a high level impact player.

There are plenty of games where Barnes has played exceptionally well and the Raps still lose (marginally) but you're right to say that when Scottie mails it in the Raps are virtually guaranteed to not win the game.

It’s not mailing it in, he is expected to do so much on defense, he literally caries our defense, while also is surrounded by low IQ players on offense. He just doesn’t have the motor for that. His role on defense should be reduced. His offensive role should be clearer not only for him but also his teammates. That’s the job of the coach and the point guard.

[canz55]

When Scottie has good games the raptors win, when he doesn’t they almost always lose. It’s not like Ingram, RJ or IQ. Barnes is a high level impact player.

There are plenty of games where Barnes has played exceptionally well and the Raps still lose (marginally) but you're right to say that when Scottie mails it in the Raps are virtually guaranteed to not win the game.

It’s not mailing it in, he is expected to do so much on defense, he literally caries our defense, while also is surrounded by low IQ players on offense. He just doesn’t have the motor for that. His role on defense should be reduced. His offensive role should be clearer not only for him but also his teammates. That’s the job of the coach and the point guard.

I don't disagree but there are games where Scottie is a ghost with zero impact (against the Wizards and Nets most recently) and as a result the Raps have no chance to win.

[720]

There are plenty of games where Barnes has played exceptionally well and the Raps still lose (marginally) but you're right to say that when Scottie mails it in the Raps are virtually guaranteed to not win the game.

It’s not mailing it in, he is expected to do so much on defense, he literally caries our defense, while also is surrounded by low IQ players on offense. He just doesn’t have the motor for that. His role on defense should be reduced. His offensive role should be clearer not only for him but also his teammates. That’s the job of the coach and the point guard.

I don't disagree but there are games where Scottie is a ghost with zero impact (against the Wizards and Nets most recently) and as a result the Raps have no chance to win.

I feel like fatigue accumulates and it impacts him more than most other star players. I don’t think he is doing it to send a message or something. I also read on Reddit that he apparently had the flu last week? No clue if that’s real or not.

[6ixpessant]

This thread had the TikTok/YouTube effect on my brain.

[dTox]

I think Bobby needs a short leash. He needs to prove he operates differently from Masai.

His first major move will tell us everything.

His first move was the $100 mill Poetl extension, when he wasn't even going to be a free agent next summer.

[Got Nuffin]

It’s not mailing it in, he is expected to do so much on defense, he literally caries our defense, while also is surrounded by low IQ players on offense. He just doesn’t have the motor for that. His role on defense should be reduced. His offensive role should be clearer not only for him but also his teammates. That’s the job of the coach and the point guard.

I don't disagree but there are games where Scottie is a ghost with zero impact (against the Wizards and Nets most recently) and as a result the Raps have no chance to win.

I feel like fatigue accumulates and it impacts him more than most other star players. I don’t think he is doing it to send a message or something. I also read on Reddit that he apparently had the flu last week? No clue if that’s real or not.

I read on multiple places that he indeed had the flu and wasn’t supposed to play the Wizards game. Not to say he hasn’t had a few stinkers either way - but he sure played like he had the flu lol.

I also don’t think Barnes is a superstar that can be our best defender and our main offensive threat at the same time- i mean most superstars don’t do that either.

[YogurtProducer]

When Scottie has good games the raptors win, when he doesn’t they almost always lose. It’s not like Ingram, RJ or IQ. Barnes is a high level impact player.

There are plenty of games where Barnes has played exceptionally well and the Raps still lose (marginally) but you're right to say that when Scottie mails it in the Raps are virtually guaranteed to not win the game.

It’s not mailing it in, he is expected to do so much on defense, he literally caries our defense, while also is surrounded by low IQ players on offense. He just doesn’t have the motor for that. His role on defense should be reduced. His offensive role should be clearer not only for him but also his teammates. That’s the job of the coach and the point guard.

Impressive to be such a Scottie fan and yet be so out of touch with his skill set.

[Johnny Bball]

This board would have us in a better spot. It's inarguable. We have multiple anchor contracts. Quickley and Poeltl are diabolical contracts.

If you argue any of the above, you need your head examined.

This board is so impatient that the Raptors would like an insane Sacramento.