PG: Chauncey, Maxiell School Raps

Death Knight · Post #121 » by **Death Knight** » Sat Jan 5, 2008 6:42 am

Warya wrote:Jose is protecting his precious assist to turnover ratio.... he needs to be a little less conservative sometimes, thats whats holding him back from becoming a top tier point guard and a legit starter.... that and terrible man to man defense...

Hubbie Brown's explaination/reasoning is that Calderon is too unselfish. He is right, but it ain't something that we didn't already know. And I am starting to think that the whole ast/to ratio thing is truly getting into Calderon's head.

But I won't be too harsh on him. He is forced into a really bad situation without TJ, and there is no capable back up to take pressue off of him when he is starting. If Calderon plays 38 mins, then the other 10 mins that he is on the bench is like a Hockey team trying to kill a power play. At the start of the 4th quarter when Calderon sat down for his rest, the Raptors let the Pistons score on the power play.

CB4_Toronto_Raptors · Post #122 » by **CB4_Toronto_Raptors** » Sat Jan 5, 2008 6:47 am

Overall a very disappointing game from our bench. We have a good bench right?...right?

Illuminati · Post #123 » by **Illuminati** » Sat Jan 5, 2008 7:19 am

Calderon isn't to blame.

Maltafan · Post #124 » by **Maltafan** » Sat Jan 5, 2008 9:02 am

There is a valid reason why Bargnani tipped the Pistons to be in the finals, and we saw it last night!

dagger · Post #125 » by **dagger** » Sat Jan 5, 2008 2:12 pm

JD225 wrote:There are no excuses, this was embarrassing. Bargnani and Bosh showed their weaknesses tonight like I have never seen. Props to Hump for actually rolling to the basket.

I really hope no one complains about wing players. The fact is our big men that we are spreading the floor for, are playing like they belong at the 3 spot.

You have to be joking. Seriously, you have to be joking. Our wing players - all six of them (okay, Joey gets a pass because he didn't play) scored a grand total of 17 points, 10 of them by Moon. And Hump fumbled away the game at the start of the fourth quarter. Sorry man, you were watching a different game.

gangstaff · Post #126 » by **gangstaff** » Sat Jan 5, 2008 3:37 pm

One other thing i noticed, Detroit doesn't have a backup PG! They put Stuckey out there handling the ball, a rookie SG. So if Billups, who is getting up there, can handle the minutes why can't Calderon?

And when the Pistons have a rookie SG playing backup PG why are they better than us with a vet SG at PG??? They have worse ball handlers than we do on the floor with their SG-playing-PG as well. Interesting.

tmorgan · Post #127 » by **tmorgan** » Sat Jan 5, 2008 3:55 pm

Not sure why you call Stuckey a SG... he was definitely a scorer in college, but then again, wasn't pretty much everyone that's NBA-worthy?

Stuckey's body type is pretty similar to Chauncey's -- actually, come to think of it, wasn't the early knock on Billups that he wasn't a real point guard? Stuckey's learning from the perfect guy -- same knocks, same build, hopefully same future.

Of course, there are a couple of real differences. Stuckey's a driver that looks for contact, while Chauncey's a post player and 3-pt bomber. Still, I think you're off in your evaluation.

UnRealGM · Post #128 » by **UnRealGM** » Sat Jan 5, 2008 4:03 pm

ooooooooooooooooooooooo25

asuseee · Post #129 » by **asuseee** » Sat Jan 5, 2008 4:17 pm

C.Boshly · Post #130 » by **C.Boshly** » Sat Jan 5, 2008 4:18 pm

I think some people forget that Calderon is still adjusting and improving in the NBA and that he has only been an NBA starter for a bit over a quarter of a season.

With that said why single out Jose's defence (even though it was pretty bad)? Rip, Chancy and Stuckey just plain killed us. You have to give credit where credit is due and they made alot of tough shots.

For everyone ripping on Calderon's defence if TJ were playing Chancy would have gone in the post and kicked the ball out to shooters when we came to help.

Pistons are a good team that was riding a ten game win streak when they came to play. Sometimes you just have to give credit where credit is due.

Raptors gotta forget this one and come out with the same intensity and purpose on Sunday.

krakhaus · Post #131 » by **krakhaus** » Sat Jan 5, 2008 4:26 pm

cxd13 wrote:Good effort? Are you kidding me that was horrendous. 5 bench points. Turnovers. Missed free throws. I couldn't watch that. And get Parker out of the game when he's playing that bad, why would you put him in in crunch time?

Sorry if someone has already addressed this, but I am getting tired of hearing how terrrible the Raptors bench is compared to previously. The obvious reason is the the bench WAS Calderon, either scoring or setting up the points. Now that he has been starting consistently there is no one to run the bench while they are on the floor. Why is this a big surprise?

Clearly we need TJ back or we need some form of back up point guard that is better than Dixon/Martin (that shouldn't be difficult) until we get TJ back.

gangstaff · Post #132 » by **gangstaff** » Sat Jan 5, 2008 4:29 pm

tmorgan wrote:Not sure why you call Stuckey a SG... he was definitely a scorer in college, but then again, wasn't pretty much everyone that's NBA-worthy?

Stuckey's body type is pretty similar to Chauncey's -- actually, come to think of it, wasn't the early knock on Billups that he wasn't a real point guard? Stuckey's learning from the perfect guy -- same knocks, same build, hopefully same future.

Of course, there are a couple of real differences. Stuckey's a driver that looks for contact, while Chauncey's a post player and 3-pt bomber. Still, I think you're off in your evaluation.

He's listed as a SG on ESPN. He's 6-5, plus he didn't seem to have great PG skills. So I thought he was a 2.

deknow · Post #133 » by **deknow** » Sat Jan 5, 2008 5:00 pm

Chauncey Billups on the absence of TJ Ford:

"I think they miss him every night. He's their CATALYST although Calderon is really good, TJ is their heartbeat...."

TJ is the Heart and SOUL of this team.

Trilogy · Post #134 » by **Trilogy** » Sat Jan 5, 2008 5:25 pm

Calderon's defence & his passiveness are his biggest weaknesses right now.

I don't think some people realize how hard it is when an opposing teams PG can get wherever they want on the floor.

Come back soon TJ.

deknow · Post #135 » by **deknow** » Sat Jan 5, 2008 5:29 pm

Illuminati wrote:Calderon isn't to blame.

right. he is immune to the blame game.

Ask Chauncey how easy it was to get the offense going with Jose Ole Calderon "EL Matador" guarding him.

His defense is a joke.

Chauncey got anything he wanted against him. Its very hard to play defense when in the first few seconds of the shot clock you're forced to help because Jose can't keep his man in front of him. THAT was a major reason why so many were out of place on rotations, as soon as Jose was beat at the point of attack someone was forced to help and then the Pistons just played hot potato till they found a great shot. :nonono:

JD225 · Post #136 » by **JD225** » Sat Jan 5, 2008 5:37 pm

dagger wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

You have to be joking. Seriously, you have to be joking. Our wing players - all six of them (okay, Joey gets a pass because he didn't play) scored a grand total of 17 points, 10 of them by Moon. And Hump fumbled away the game at the start of the fourth quarter. Sorry man, you were watching a different game.

Good teams stay home on our shooters. How exactly are they supposed to get open when Bargnani and Bosh are having a poor season shooting the ball and Moon (the one wing player you can partially blame for our stagnant offense) is starting for our club? Our starting C is shooting 39% and our starting PF is shooting 43% on the season. How are guys like Anthony Parker, Delfino and Kapono really the ones to blame at this point? They are all role players feeding off of the double teams of Bosh and spreading the floor for him.

My feeling was the game was over in the second quarter when everyone on our roster excluding Hump was playing like a small forward or a guard.

I agree with you on Moon, but you can't blame guys like AP, Delfino and Kapono and completely ignore the fact that our big men have pretty big weaknesses in regards to toughness and their offense that are supposed to command so much attention from the opposing team.

rdtx2005 · Post #137 » by **rdtx2005** » Sat Jan 5, 2008 5:43 pm

C.Boshly wrote:I think some people forget that Calderon is still adjusting and improving in the NBA and that he has only been an NBA starter for a bit over a quarter of a season.

he is in his 3rd year already... if you are still using this excuse.. well.........

ImissBobCostas · Post #138 » by **ImissBobCostas** » Sat Jan 5, 2008 5:50 pm

Calderon isn't perfect but he played well, at least I thought.

Ok, Chauncey walked by him at will but Chauncey Billups is one of the best players in the NBA, few can guard him.

This team's weakness are AP, Kapono, Delfino and Moon. They all have their moments but collectively it's a weak swingman group.

We need a Richard Hamilton. When he wants to score, he does.

RapsBulls4evr · Post #139 » by **RapsBulls4evr** » Sat Jan 5, 2008 6:06 pm

Well, even though Jose has some obvious weaknesses, he's been bestowed a great deal of pressure without TJ, and thus far he has been able to handle it, and played well overall. However we really need TJ. Last year, our PG play was one of the major reasons we were a 47 win team. This year, we only have 1 thus far in Jose... and that changes everything.

Like a poster above said, when Jose goes to the bench, and especially playing a good team, the Raptors are basically in survival mode until he comes back in... or in hockey terms, the other team is automatically on a "power play", that's how dependent we are on both point guards.

Damnit, this sucks, come on TJ we need you now! :pray:

ImissBobCostas · Post #140 » by **ImissBobCostas** » Sat Jan 5, 2008 6:19 pm

Raps4evr wrote:Well, even though Jose has some obvious weaknesses, he's been bestowed a great deal of pressure without TJ, and thus far he has been able to handle it, and played well overall. However we really need TJ. Last year, our PG play was one of the major reasons we were a 47 win team. This year, we only have 1 thus far in Jose... and that changes everything.

Like a poster above said, when Jose goes to the bench, and especially playing a good team, the Raptors are basically in survival mode until he comes back in... or in hockey terms, the other team is automatically on a "power play", that's how dependent we are on both point guards.

Damnit, this sucks, come on TJ we need you now!

Good analogy.