Calderon/Turkoglu/Triano/Colangelo Venting Thread

[mack_435]

Bryan Colangelo became the raptors GM on Feb. 28/2006.

His Overall Record at the Helm (took from 2007 on as including 2006 doesn't make alot of sense)
2007 = 47-35 Lost 4-2 to NJ
2008 = 41-41 Lost 4-1 to Orl
2009 = 33-49
2010 = 32-31

Overall = 153 - 156

I was going to list every move Bryan made but we aer all aware of them and there are far to many to list. He is responsible for every player/contract/Coach (besides Bosh who signed before he got here). This is his team! He has had big expiring contracts, Cap Space, High draft pics(1st, 7th), an All Star Calibre player (Bosh) and has never got us to the Second round and we have only been over .500 once. We have had the same problem ever year and he has never addressed it DEFENSE!

You could very well argue going forward that we are in worse shape now than when he took over. We are saddled with huge contracts for mediore player (Hedo, Calderon,) For years to come. He doesn't seem to have the patients to build a contender or have a very good eye for top end talent, see JO - Marion - Turk - Bargs - Calderon - Derozan(maybe).

I use to always see Comments like in "Colangelo we trust", an I guess my question is do you guys still feel that way? Do you think he has done enough to warrant an extension?

[raps4life~]

Can someone email this to Hedo?

Why? He clearly doesn't give two ****.

[Janraj]

Clearly, according to your post, BC hasnt warranted an extension. We should have seen more results than what has been acquired up to date.

However, one has to realize only recently players are more inclined to come to Toronto. Before BC got here, no one, and I mean no one wanted to come out to Toronto. What happened with Salmons was just an example that even though we had BC then, we still couldnt lure an american talent up north.

I wonder if we had a different GM, could TOR have achieved much more than BC did? I dont think so. All in all, I dont think BC did a great job, but he definitely didnt drive this franchise to the ground ala Babcock.

Remember, we still have Bosh, or pieces that would add up to Bosh during the offseason. If BC can work some magic there, we could bounce back next season as the team would be more balanced with only one of Bosh/Bargs.

[Harry Palmer]

I obviously always thought the In BC We Trust stuff was silly, and I'm also on record as being pretty much opposed to almost everything he has done, big picture-wise.

BUT...with that stuff on record, I was thinking about something else today to his credit.

One thing he has managed to do in a real way is address the joke the franchise was in jeopardy of becoming again under Babs. This will sound like hyperbole, but hear me out. While at no time under Babs were we ever, imo, in any real danger of picking up and leaving as a franchise, the fact is under his tenure our credibility had taken major hits, and the questions about whether or not our situation precluded the ability to actually compete were very much in the air again.

Now, while this could again resurface if Bosh leaves, and to some degree will always linger, I do feel BC has made great strides in terms of solidifying us as legitimate in the eyes of much of the NBA world, or at least reduced the degree to which we are an afterthought or source of humour. We're still anything but an NBA hot-spot, strippers et al notwithstanding, and the whole European emphasis in some ways has merely re-framed the old concerns, but BC's presence in and of itself still legitimizes us as a franchise, even if he's not done a whole lot to legitimatize us as anything but fodder as a team.

Not sure if I'm making my point clear...am eating as I 'type'...but it's a point that was bouncing around in my head earlier, and this thread brought it to the surface.

[dacrusha]

You forgot to mention that BC has made over $75 million in profits for MLSE over the past 3 years.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Why don't we wait until the year is over before entertaining this, and not just pile on a losing streak.

[mack_435]

Clearly, according to your post, BC hasnt warranted an extension. We should have seen more results than what has been acquired up to date.

However, one has to realize only recently players are more inclined to come to Toronto. Before BC got here, no one, and I mean no one wanted to come out to Toronto. What happened with Salmons was just an example that even though we had BC then, we still couldnt lure an american talent up north.

I wonder if we had a different GM, could TOR have achieved much more than BC did? I dont think so. All in all, I dont think BC did a great job, but he definitely didnt drive this franchise to the ground ala Babcock.

Remember, we still have Bosh, or pieces that would add up to Bosh during the offseason. If BC can work some magic there, we could bounce back next season as the team would be more balanced with only one of Bosh/Bargs.

Interesting perspective but you didn't answer my question do you think he deserves an extension? You said by my post he clearly doesn't but then gave supporting comments to why he does. Also to your point of that BC changed the Culture of players wanting to come here. I ask who has really come here? Just Euro's and Jack. Everyone else had to come via trade or being drafted(oh I forgot Kapono). I would even argue that the only reason Jack came was due to BOSH not BC but will admit BC has done a good job of keeping everyone happy can't remember anybody asking for a trade or anything like that.

[Michael Jordan]

I wish BC
-Did not sign Hedo
-Did not extend Jose's contract
-Did not draft Bargnani

Unfortunately, we are stuck with these 3 Euros. Inconsistent and defense-less.

[Dr Octagon]

You forgot to mention that BC has made over $75 million in profits for MLSE over the past 3 years.

This.

[Zarko]

I wish BC
-Did not sign Hedo
-Did not extend Jose's contract
-Did not draft Bargnani

Unfortunately, we are stuck with these 3 Euros. Inconsistent and defense-less.

Who would you draft over Bargnani ?(knowing Roy went 7-8th in the draft and wasn't on anyones radar)

Gay?

kind of a wash there.

[mack_435]

I obviously always thought the In BC We Trust stuff was silly, and I'm also on record as being pretty much opposed to almost everything he has done, big picture-wise.

BUT...with that stuff on record, I was thinking about something else today to his credit.

One thing he has managed to do in a real way is address the joke the franchise was in jeopardy of becoming again under Babs. This will sound like hyperbole, but hear me out. While at no time under Babs were we ever, imo, in any real danger of picking up and leaving as a franchise, the fact is under his tenure our credibility had taken major hits, and the questions about whether or not our situation precluded the ability to actually compete were very much in the air again.

Now, while this could again resurface if Bosh leaves, and to some degree will always linger, I do feel BC has made great strides in terms of solidifying us as legitimate in the eyes of much of the NBA world, or at least reduced the degree to which we are an afterthought or source of humour. We're still anything but an NBA hot-spot, strippers et al notwithstanding, and the whole European emphasis in some ways has merely re-framed the old concerns, but BC's presence in and of itself still legitimizes us as a franchise, even if he's not done a whole lot to legitimatize us as anything but fodder as a team.

Not sure if I'm making my point clear...am eating as I 'type'...but it's a point that was bouncing around in my head earlier, and this thread brought it to the surface.

Interesting perspective, and I do agree with you that BC has been a great spokeman for this team and the city in general. He is truly a great talker and even I must admit that I have been sold on many of his ideas by just listening to him and probably would go as far as to say I like him as a person.

Here is where I disagree with you that he pick out a team in shambles. He had cap space, and all-star, a high draft pick(turn out to be #1) and a solid prospect in charlie -V. Not a great situation but I think you could argue the teams in worse shape now than when he took over. We don't have a high pic, we have big long expensive contracts and even if bosh stays we are never going to be any type of an contender for the forseeable future.. Are we really better off now??

[Harry Palmer]

I obviously always thought the In BC We Trust stuff was silly, and I'm also on record as being pretty much opposed to almost everything he has done, big picture-wise.

BUT...with that stuff on record, I was thinking about something else today to his credit.

One thing he has managed to do in a real way is address the joke the franchise was in jeopardy of becoming again under Babs. This will sound like hyperbole, but hear me out. While at no time under Babs were we ever, imo, in any real danger of picking up and leaving as a franchise, the fact is under his tenure our credibility had taken major hits, and the questions about whether or not our situation precluded the ability to actually compete were very much in the air again.

Now, while this could again resurface if Bosh leaves, and to some degree will always linger, I do feel BC has made great strides in terms of solidifying us as legitimate in the eyes of much of the NBA world, or at least reduced the degree to which we are an afterthought or source of humour. We're still anything but an NBA hot-spot, strippers et al notwithstanding, and the whole European emphasis in some ways has merely re-framed the old concerns, but BC's presence in and of itself still legitimizes us as a franchise, even if he's not done a whole lot to legitimatize us as anything but fodder as a team.

Not sure if I'm making my point clear...am eating as I 'type'...but it's a point that was bouncing around in my head earlier, and this thread brought it to the surface.

Interesting perspective, and I do agree with you that BC has been a great spokeman for this team and the city in general. He is truly a great talker and even I must admit that I have been sold on many of his ideas by just listening to him and probably would go as far as to say I like him as a person.

Here is where I disagree with you that he pick out a team in shambles. He had cap space, and all-star, a high draft pick(turn out to be #1) and a solid prospect in charlie -V. Not a great situation but I think you could argue the teams in worse shape now than when he took over. We don't have a high pic, we have big long expensive contracts and even if bosh stays we are never going to be any type of an contender for the forseeable future.. Are we really better off now??

No, we don't disagree at all about the situation the team was in from a talent/on paper POV. Sorry, I assumed my record on the matter was well known. I totally agree with you re: what he took over vs. what we have, as a basketball team.

I am talking more about what he took over vs. what we have as a perceived franchise, in terms of reputation, status, etc.

[outofbounds]

I obviously always thought the In BC We Trust stuff was silly, and I'm also on record as being pretty much opposed to almost everything he has done, big picture-wise.

BUT...with that stuff on record, I was thinking about something else today to his credit.

One thing he has managed to do in a real way is address the joke the franchise was in jeopardy of becoming again under Babs. This will sound like hyperbole, but hear me out. While at no time under Babs were we ever, imo, in any real danger of picking up and leaving as a franchise, the fact is under his tenure our credibility had taken major hits, and the questions about whether or not our situation precluded the ability to actually compete were very much in the air again.

Now, while this could again resurface if Bosh leaves, and to some degree will always linger, I do feel BC has made great strides in terms of solidifying us as legitimate in the eyes of much of the NBA world, or at least reduced the degree to which we are an afterthought or source of humour. We're still anything but an NBA hot-spot, strippers et al notwithstanding, and the whole European emphasis in some ways has merely re-framed the old concerns, but BC's presence in and of itself still legitimizes us as a franchise, even if he's not done a whole lot to legitimatize us as anything but fodder as a team.

Not sure if I'm making my point clear...am eating as I 'type'...but it's a point that was bouncing around in my head earlier, and this thread brought it to the surface.

One interview which blew your socks off finally got you to think?

His words are cheap to me, reminds me of a slithering coporate snake. The man came here with everything at his disposal and blew it. Not only has he blown it now but he has also blown it for the future.

Words mean nothing, winning means everything. He has failed and when Bosh signs with Miami in the offseason, a team he gave capsapce for JO and our first round pick, this franchise will again be the joke of the league.

Also there is no respectability around the league when it comes to the Raptors, we are the butt of all jokes in America, we still don't get tv coverage, players still come here looking to improve themselfs in order to get a contract some where else and care nothing about the team or city. Nothing has changed at all in my opinion, other than the fact under Bryan its not always horrible, its sometimes mediocre but never good.

[Reignman]

If BC had built a more conventional lineup the respect factor would have increased even further, IMO.

[Harry Palmer]

I obviously always thought the In BC We Trust stuff was silly, and I'm also on record as being pretty much opposed to almost everything he has done, big picture-wise.

BUT...with that stuff on record, I was thinking about something else today to his credit.

One thing he has managed to do in a real way is address the joke the franchise was in jeopardy of becoming again under Babs. This will sound like hyperbole, but hear me out. While at no time under Babs were we ever, imo, in any real danger of picking up and leaving as a franchise, the fact is under his tenure our credibility had taken major hits, and the questions about whether or not our situation precluded the ability to actually compete were very much in the air again.

Now, while this could again resurface if Bosh leaves, and to some degree will always linger, I do feel BC has made great strides in terms of solidifying us as legitimate in the eyes of much of the NBA world, or at least reduced the degree to which we are an afterthought or source of humour. We're still anything but an NBA hot-spot, strippers et al notwithstanding, and the whole European emphasis in some ways has merely re-framed the old concerns, but BC's presence in and of itself still legitimizes us as a franchise, even if he's not done a whole lot to legitimatize us as anything but fodder as a team.

Not sure if I'm making my point clear...am eating as I 'type'...but it's a point that was bouncing around in my head earlier, and this thread brought it to the surface.

One interview which blew your socks off finally got you to think?

His words are cheap to me, reminds me of a slithering coporate snake. The man came here with everything at his disposal and blew it. Not only has he blown it now but he has also blown it for the future.

Words mean nothing, winning means everything. He has failed and when Bosh signs with Miami in the offseason, a team he gave capsapce for JO and our first round pick, this franchise will again be the joke of the league.

Also there is no respectability around the league when it comes to the Raptors, we are the butt of all jokes in America, we still don't get tv coverage, players still come here looking to improve themselfs in order to get a contract some where else and care nothing about the team or city. Nothing has changed at all in my opinion, other than the fact under Bryan its not always horrible, its sometimes mediocre but never good.

Well, first of all, I haven't even listened to the interview yet. I expect out of him what I've always heard out of him; canned candor.

I was thinking about this aspect because of the discussion surrounding that interview, yes, and it's not as if this isn't something I've thought of before, but it occurred to me in slightly stark terms.

As far as the value of words, I think you are overlooking the degree to which perception trumps reality in many spheres.

And lastly, in terms of how much of a joke we are, I might or might not agree, but I would definitely say that degree is the key word, and I feel that, to whatever extent we still are, it's nothing like it was before he took over.

[Mofoo]

The existing Raptors core will not be any better next year. 6th to 10th normal season finish and first round exit in playoffs is the future of Raptors if they rely on this team.


The Euros with long term contract are not easy to get rid of, especially with the new CBA coming and more importantly none of them playing consistently good. I reckon best Raptors can do is; sign Bosh and then trade him with the, as many possible, Euros attached into trade. Someone out there must be desperate enough to get Bosh and may take couple of slow legs with him too. Next sign two very good players with the cap space, once you have two guys to count on, then rest of the role players are easy to find. I could throw Boozer as one good candidate and he is not necessarily a max player, bring a good pg next to him and thats it. Raps will be better than ever.

[J Dilla]

One thing he has managed to do in a real way is address the joke the franchise was in jeopardy of becoming again under Babs. This will sound like hyperbole, but hear me out. While at no time under Babs were we ever, imo, in any real danger of picking up and leaving as a franchise, the fact is under his tenure our credibility had taken major hits, and the questions about whether or not our situation precluded the ability to actually compete were very much in the air again.

Babcock's plan was to rebuild from the ground up. Every team goes through that and unfortunately you have to take a beating for it from the critics around the league. People wanted him to draft Gerald Green, he drafted Villanueva and received so much criticism for that. You can say he missed on Danny Granger, but you can also say the same about 8 other GMs.

We don't know how Babcock could've been because he didn't really get 3-4 years to build the team and finish what he started. He had a vision which BC doesn't have.

[Dr Octagon]

One thing he has managed to do in a real way is address the joke the franchise was in jeopardy of becoming again under Babs. This will sound like hyperbole, but hear me out. While at no time under Babs were we ever, imo, in any real danger of picking up and leaving as a franchise, the fact is under his tenure our credibility had taken major hits, and the questions about whether or not our situation precluded the ability to actually compete were very much in the air again.

Babcock's plan was to rebuild from the ground up. Every team goes through that and unfortunately you have to take a beating for it from the critics around the league. People wanted him to draft Gerald Green, he drafted Villanueva and received so much criticism for that. You can say he missed on Danny Granger, but you can also say the same about 8 other GMs.

We don't know how Babcock could've been because he didn't really get 3-4 years to build the team and finish what he started. He had a vision which BC doesn't have.

BC has a vision.

To build a mediocre team to try to please Bosh into re-signing, to give fans false hope every year ("Best team I've build" or "This is a 50 win team") so MLSE makes money.

[Neutral 123]

Dont know why Triano left Jose in.. if hes not making his shots he is pretty much useless playing along side Jack

That's just about it. He can run a s/r as well, but when his jumpshot isn't falling, there is no reason to be in the game. I don't believe he even belongs in the league, but at least taking him out of the starting line up has prevented every single pg from lighting us up for career highs. This talk of him starting again is making my stomach turn.

[LittleOzzy]

Just bumping this as we'll likely need it tonight.