It is time to build around Bargnani!

[RapsVC15]

Bargnani is putting up 18 a game right now with absolutely zero plays run for him.

Take Bosh out of the equation, Bargnani's shots go up and he easily averages more than 20 a game.

20+/7 from a 24 year old? the sky's the limit for this guy.

We know he can score with efficiency, give him a summer to worn out the kinks defensively and on the boards?!? Damn, I can't wait for next season.

[Crazy-Canuck]

Bargnani is putting up 18 a game right now with absolutely zero plays run for him.

Take Bosh out of the equation, Bargnani's shots go up and he easily averages more than 20 a game.

20+/7 from a 24 year old? the sky's the limit for this guy.

We know he can score with efficiency, give him a summer to worn out the kinks defensively and on the boards?!? Damn, I can't wait for next season.

Take Bosh out and Evans becomes the number 1 option, has history taught us nothing?

[hkr]

...
20+/7 from a 24 year old? the sky's the limit for this guy.
...

Or a worse Rashard Lewis. Which isn't a bad thing except that you don't want Lewis manning your post.

[lobosloboslobos]

Bargnani is putting up 18 a game right now with absolutely zero plays run for him.

Take Bosh out of the equation, Bargnani's shots go up and he easily averages more than 20 a game.

20+/7 from a 24 year old? the sky's the limit for this guy.

We know he can score with efficiency, give him a summer to worn out the kinks defensively and on the boards?!? Damn, I can't wait for next season.

Can't tell if this is supposed to be in green font. Because even though I basically agree with it this is exactly what some of us were saying this time last year and things should have evolved more than they have. The one difference is that his D has definitely improved over last year. Help D though still poor is certainly improved, many more blocks now, and improved though erratic rebounding. His inconsistency maddens me like it does everyone else.

I agree with SuperSub's post a page back about him not being able to concentrate on more than a couple things at once defensively, but with two caveats:

1) this is not because he is dumb just because he has had to learn so much new stuff on the fly in the NBA that other centres have had ingrained since junior high

2) one he does learn it he tends to have it pretty much down, and he moves on to adding the next thing to his game

The one thing we have never done is made him the focal point of our offense, even for a single game. Both in the post and at the 3 point line. I so wish we would do that to see what would happen. Run plays that give him 10 shots in the first quarter and 22-24 shots overall, with 8 or 9 3-point attempts, just once. Feed him the ball in the post again and again and again. Maybe he couldn't handle it, as lots of people think. But maybe he'd score 40 or more. But until we try it we'll never know if we're wasting an offensive monster. (I tend to think we are).

[gangstaff]

I posted this in another thread, but it seems that I can post it in 90% of the threads here.

#1 overall pick
4 year career averages: 29mpg, 13.5ppg, 4.7rpg, 1.1apg, 1bpg, .439fg%, .375 3p%, ~$5.5 mil
Current season averages: 35mpg, 17ppg, 6rpg, 1.1apg, 1.3bpg, .476fg%, .368 3p% ~$6.5 mil

He has been babied by the GM, babied by our current coach, got a coach fired for "being hard on him".

He has played with an All-Star in every season in the league. He had a COTY in 2007. He has been given chances to play at SF, PF, and C at various times. He has played almost 30 minutes a game over the course of his 4 year career...plenty of time to develop and adjust.

And yet, he still sucks. His best skill is his shooting and yet his percentages are average. His nickname is "Il Mago" but he averages 1 assist a game. He plays Center and is 7 feet tall but pulls down 6 boards. And now he's going to be getting paid 10 mil a year for the next 5 years, when salaries after next year are going to go way down with the new CBA.

From the minute Colangelo got here, he has focused on Bargnani to the detriment of Bosh and our team. And now it is likely that Bosh will leave in FA. And even if he doesn't, the past 4 years have shown that the current combo of players are barely competitive let alone championship caliber.

I don't hate Bargs. I never have. He's just a basketball player, and I don't know what kind of a person he is. What I do know is that his play for the team I cheer for is detrimental to winning. I supported him fully in his first year and a half, until I had seen enough to believe that he didn't play hard, wasn't a C, and didn't fit in the starting lineup with our best player. He needed to be moved to a 6th man role or traded, and that still holds today.

[Dr Positivity]

I wonder if it's ominous the OP's thread title reminded me of "Now is time for Rasho to rain treys from downtown?", lol

[McFurious1]

Bosh is overrated

[Prop]

yes, let's build around bargnani! let's just cross our fingers and hope he becomes anywhere near the player that chris bosh is! and if he magically becomes that good, if he becomes our best player by far, then someday we'll eventually turn on him too! then we can start another marginally successful (at best) rebuild yet again! YEAH!

THAT'S HOW WE ROLL IN RAPTORLAND!

[Neutral 123]

I'm going to listen to my gut with this one, and frankly, I'm sick to my stomach over the thought.

Now maybe some of this is due to the fact that Bosh is going to leave, so like a jilted lover, some will pretend that they are better off without Bosh anyways, but the truth is, if anyone wants to question Bosh as not good enough, then how does building around Bargs make any sense when Bargs is nowhere near the player, leader, has nowhere near the same heart, toughness, desire as Bargs? Are people really this delusional and ridiculous.

Look, it's really this simple. If Bosh leaves, this team is starting from square 1. The only debate here as I see it, is if that is the best thing for the francshise.

That may be the case. It might be right that it's simply too difficult to get rid of the bad contracts on this team, and actually bring in the pieces that Bosh would have needed.

If Bosh leaves, it's 5 years before we are talking about contending for anything. That's the reality.

[Neutral 123]

I posted this in another thread, but it seems that I can post it in 90% of the threads here.

#1 overall pick
4 year career averages: 29mpg, 13.5ppg, 4.7rpg, 1.1apg, 1bpg, .439fg%, .375 3p%, ~$5.5 mil
Current season averages: 35mpg, 17ppg, 6rpg, 1.1apg, 1.3bpg, .476fg%, .368 3p% ~$6.5 mil

He has been babied by the GM, babied by our current coach, got a coach fired for "being hard on him".

He has played with an All-Star in every season in the league. He had a COTY in 2007. He has been given chances to play at SF, PF, and C at various times. He has played almost 30 minutes a game over the course of his 4 year career...plenty of time to develop and adjust.

And yet, he still sucks. His best skill is his shooting and yet his percentages are average. His nickname is "Il Mago" but he averages 1 assist a game. He plays Center and is 7 feet tall but pulls down 6 boards. And now he's going to be getting paid 10 mil a year for the next 5 years, when salaries after next year are going to go way down with the new CBA.

From the minute Colangelo got here, he has focused on Bargnani to the detriment of Bosh and our team. And now it is likely that Bosh will leave in FA. And even if he doesn't, the past 4 years have shown that the current combo of players are barely competitive let alone championship caliber.

I don't hate Bargs. I never have. He's just a basketball player, and I don't know what kind of a person he is. What I do know is that his play for the team I cheer for is detrimental to winning. I supported him fully in his first year and a half, until I had seen enough to believe that he didn't play hard, wasn't a C, and didn't fit in the starting lineup with our best player. He needed to be moved to a 6th man role or traded, and that still holds today.

Yep...

[Undefeated]

Look, it's really this simple. If Bosh leaves, this team is starting from square 1. The only debate here as I see it, is if that is the best thing for the francshise.

There's a difference between building around Bargnani and running more set plays for Bargnani. What the Raptors should be doing is the later. I think people assume running more plays for Bargnani would equate to being an number one option or being built around when it doesn't.

Anyhow, if Bosh leaves, you look to put pieces that work together where none of them are superstars unless they have proven to be so or has a very high ceiling of becoming one. You have DeMar and Sonny who benefits from playing with Bargnani due to the space he creates for driving lanes and backdoor cuts. You have Bargnani who can put the ball anywhere on the floor who's a very versatile offensive player. The Raptors already have some parts that fit well together and the next step is to get whatever that will help DeMar, Sonny and Andrea. The Raptors won't be starting from square one as a few of you believe.

[Tha Cynic]

I really don't understand the thought process of people on this board. You want to let a perimeter oriented, offensive minded big man who shows willingness to rebound and get to the freethrow line go, and replace him with a perimeter oriented, offensive minded big man, who doesn't show any willingness to rebound or draw fouls? Huh? I mean this just makes you all look stupid. Why would you go around bashing one guy for his deficiencies, but be willing to replace him with a much poorer man's version of him.

I agree with the first part - let Bosh go. It's time to start from scratch.

What they need to do after that, is trade Bargnani. He's part of the problem, not the solution.

[Test of Wills]

Are you kidding me?!

Bargnani is not even a consistent and reliable 2nd option on a losing team like the Raptors.

[Neutral 123]

Look, it's really this simple. If Bosh leaves, this team is starting from square 1. The only debate here as I see it, is if that is the best thing for the francshise.

There's a difference between building around Bargnani and running more set plays for Bargnani. What the Raptors should be doing is the later. I think people assume running more plays for Bargnani would equate to being an number one option or being built around when it doesn't.

Anyhow, if Bosh leaves, you look to put pieces that work together where none of them are superstars unless they have proven to be so or has a very high ceiling of becoming one. You have DeMar and Sonny who benefits from playing with Bargnani due to the space he creates for driving lanes and backdoor cuts. You have Bargnani who can put the ball anywhere on the floor who's a very versatile offensive player. The Raptors already have some parts that fit well together and the next step is to get whatever that will help DeMar, Sonny and Andrea. The Raptors won't be starting from square one as a few of you believe.

Well I was responding to the OP's post, but I strongly disagree with your toned down sentiments as well. If Bosh leaves, what exactly are we going to get back? This team gets considerably worse period. A team that is struggling to stay at .500 loses by far their best player, and they will be bad... Very bad.

Look, I've read some of your posts, and I get the impression you are pretty high on Bargs. I think he is useful, but as a role player and not a focal point. I'm sure you will see things differently, but I see a guy who is reluctant to battle for post position, and doesn't do it nearly enough, and hasn't developed a mid range game that makes him a go to guy. Running more sets for him is something that must happen if Bosh leaves, but does Bargs even want that? Is he even in the type of shape where he can play the minutes, battle, and demand the ball? I don't see it.

It's funny. People here complain that BC has coddle Bargs, loves Bargs etc, and if there is any truth to that, what does it say that he still overwhelmingly a guy who scores off the creation of others?

Is there entire organization really missing what this guy can do? That he's really a guy who justifies having more plays run for him? That he's so talented that he, a rookie and a guy who was simply looking for a contract this year are going anywhere but to the basement?

Can you explain to me why after 4 years in the league, his teammates, coaches, organization, and pretty much everyone else except the few Bargs fans out there, think this guy needs to be more of a focal point instead of less?

Heck even Bargs himself, just gave an interview where after a good game and suggested that his performance was some sort of vindication for a bad one he had earlier answered that he didn't have a bad game, but that sometimes different guys will do things while others take a backseat? This is a guy who wants to step up and get the ball more, be more of a leader, and next year if Bosh leaves, may just become the number 1 option? It will be a mess next season if Bosh is gone.

[A_wildstabatanything]

Building around Bargnani is crazy but that doesn't mean you can't rebuild while he's still here. He's not a #1 option but he may thrive as the team's top scoring big. The Raps need a premiere guard or wing to shoulder the scoring load/be a goto player at the end of games.

If the BPA in next year's draft is another offensive 4 then draft him and send Andrea packing. If we can pick up a C or a 1/2/3 with that pick then maybe you hold onto Bargs a little longer and see how things fit.

[Dr Positivity]

Exactly, Bargnani may be our best player next year and our starting PF, but we're not planning on a "future contender" with him as the best player unless he proves he's good enough to.

Ideally I think Bargnani ends up our Rashard Lewis. Similar stats, similar game. Good to have as your 3rd best player

[Neutral 123]

I really don't understand the thought process of people on this board. You want to let a perimeter oriented, offensive minded big man who shows willingness to rebound and get to the freethrow line go, and replace him with a perimeter oriented, offensive minded big man, who doesn't show any willingness to rebound or draw fouls? Huh? I mean this just makes you all look stupid. Why would you go around bashing one guy for his deficiencies, but be willing to replace him with a much poorer man's version of him.

I agree with the first part - let Bosh go. It's time to start from scratch.

What they need to do after that, is trade Bargnani. He's part of the problem, not the solution.

LOL, it's hilarious. I mean even if someone is delusional about Bargs being anywhere near the player Bosh is, this is a .500 team with him. If Bosh leaves, where do they think this team is going to be with him being gone for nothing or next to nothing?

It makes no sense.

[Tha Cynic]

The fact that he's a guard trapped in a bigman's body puts the team at a disadvantage from the start. You do not want to start a rebuild with a flawed player whether he's the #1 option, or just a starter. The only way I can see keeping Bargnani being a good move, is if the plan is to use him in a 6th man role. The simple fact that this guy starts, put this team at a disadvantage from the very beginning. After that, you're working at hiding his deficiencies rather than building a good team. That's no way to start from scratch.

[Schad]

As mentioned, Bargs has all of the traits that people harp on with Bosh, and then some:

- "Doesn't pass enough": there are 116 players receiving regular minutes with usage rates above 20%. Bargs ranks 109th in assist rate.

- "Sucks defensively": second-worst on/off court defensive split in the league.

- "Not enough of a leader": when's the last time you heard the words "Bargnani" and "leadership" mentioned together? Have we ever?

- "Scores, but doesn't raise the level of his team offensively": Bosh's on-court offensive +/- is 4.89. For Bargs, it's 2.54.

- "Too much of a jump-shooter": 73% of his shots are jumpers...for Bosh, it's 54%.

- "He has butterfingers": Bosh has a 'hands' rating of 10.8, better than Bargs' 9.6.

If the goal is to tank for a top-3 pick next year and trade Bargs thereafter, I'm all for making him the centerpiece. If it's a long-term idea, it's going to fail and fail mightily.

[mrcapslock]

i can't believe this thread has 10 pages. obviously OP is joking when he wants bargnani as the centerpiece. No sane person would want bargnani as a centerpiece. It's like saying lets build around Quinton Richardson or Okur. That's just ridiculous. Bargnani scores under a team system. You gotta get him open or else he's no use. Right now, we need a dominant inside bigman so we can use Bargnani to free him up. Bargnani is like Channing Frye.