OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread

[GQStylin]

Since mid-September Ontario has had 1041 deaths recorded, so if the 200 LTC deaths is correct, LTC has made up less than 20% of the current deaths from Covid that we are seeing.

Don't know where you got that from, but its incorrect. Again straight from Ontario government website:

https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data

At the start of September we were at 2,812 and to date we're at about 3,361.

You have no idea what our LTCs have accomplished since spring in order to minimize the risk for their residents.

Except many haven't which is why there's still some LTCs that have significant numbers of infections and deaths. They had the entire summer to get prepared and they still failed while other LTCs have had low to almost no infections and deaths since the beginning of the pandemic because they had a plan that they implement before the government ever told them that they needed to.

Ontario was at 779 rolling 7 day average for cases on October 15th (a month ago) and is currently at 1408 rolling 7 day average. That's 180% increase in the 7 day rolling average. In that same time frame, Ontario has gone from 253 hospitalized to 479 which is a 190% increase. You don't understand how to interpret data very well do you.

Over almost a 2 month period now where Ontario has averaged hundreds of daily infections and recently 1000+ daily infections and we've barely doubled the number of people in hospital for covid and THAT'S what you're worried about?? Again back in April-May we had a little over 1,000 people in hospital for the virus and we were still nowhere close to the 10,000+ beds that were made available on an emergency basis by the government.

Start understanding the data and stop attempting to push a narrative that everyone with the exception of the elderly and vulnerable should go 'back to normal'. Our society doesn't work that way and the only good way to keep them safe is for all of us to be responsible and stop being so damn selfish for a little while longer.

The point that you can't seem to understand is that you can protect LTC where the vast majority of deaths have occurred without destroying the country and it blows my mind why people like you along with our government and medical experts can't ever seem to get that?!??!?

Imagine for a moment that if our government and experts stopped wasting time, energy and untold amounts of money testing and chasing down every infection in the general population and put all that effort and resources into simply protecting LTCs and the sick how much more effective and life saving those measures would be? Heck if that's what the government did from the beginning, the number of people saved could've been in the thousands by now.

Also with all the daily, never ending fearmongering by the media, our experts and leaders, it seems like logic has been completely thrown out the door. The cold hard data speaks for itself and if you ever bother to look at the facts and use some reasoning you'd see that this virus isn't all that dangerous to the overwhelming majority of people. The only reason people like you keep insisting covid is such a massive issue is because everyone in the media and our politicians have pounded it into your head that its such a huge problem.

What if I told you there's a medical issue/disease that kills 120+ Canadians each and every day meaning more than 43,000 people die of it every year? What if I told you that this disease even though it affects the elderly more severely that it affects younger people as well in far higher numbers than covid does? Would you be concerned or not? What if I told you that issue was heart disease and stroke?

Somehow that issue that affects far more age demographics from younger to older and takes many more Canadian lives EVERY SINGLE YEAR compared to a virus that will eventually leave and takes 4 times less lives gets so little attention and is feared so much less by the public? Why is that? Is it maybe because the media and our politicans and medical experts aren't pounding it into your head 24/7/365 days a year that 120+ Canadians are dying by heart disease and stroke and its something you should CONSTANTLY be afraid of and are forcing you to make life choices to drastically lower the number of heart and stroke deaths?

Seriously there are other things that kill Canadians at a much higher rate CONSISTENTLY EVERY SINGLE YEAR and affects many more people and not just the elderly and sick and yet we don't give a damn because the media and our leaders don't give a damn, but yet this virus is something we need to completely lose our minds over?

Heart and stroke deaths, cancer deaths, drug overdose deaths etc. affects people of all age demographics all across the country and kills many times more Canadians. With covid, take out Ontario and Quebec and you just removed 91.6% OF ALL VIRUS DEATHS IN ALL OF CANADA which makes all the other provinces and territories going nuts over this virus look even more stupid.

I mean really lets be real. If you turned off your TV and stopped using the internet and your phone and simply went out and lived your life, I bet you a billion dollars you'd never even know that a pandemic was going on with how non-lethal this virus is.

[NBA Sheady]

The point that you can't seem to understand is that you can protect LTC where the vast majority of deaths have occurred without destroying the country

You lose any remaining credibility with childish hyperbole like this.

[GQStylin]

It bears repeating.

Anyone focused solely on deaths is not informed. There is a huge list of very serious long term effects of this disease.

I'm not disputing that some people experience side effects even after recovery, but it also bears repeating that the number of people who are experiencing those side effects are very small in number. The media is blowing this virus into a huge story every single day from all possible angles, so if all these various side effects and conditions post covid recovery were so widespread like it affects 30, 40 or 50%+ of recovered patients, don't you think that they'd have blown that up so that everyone would know about it by now? Don't you think there'd be numerous reports and studies that would also say the same thing?

There isn't because that's not the case. There are some people who unfortunately are affected long term by the virus even after they've recovered from it, but there's absolutely no data that supports those long term affects are hitting a majority or even a significant number of recovered patients. If there is such data then please show me, otherwise its just another fearmonger tactic to get people to comply with whatever ridiculous rules that our leaders see fit after the scare tactic of 'overwhelming our healthcare system' never happened and that 'up to 100,000 Ontarians could die from the virus if we do nothing' was proven to be such a laughable and stupid prediction.

Gotta keep going back to the drawing board to find something new to keep people afraid and in line and obeying without ever questioning our politicians and 'experts'.

[GQStylin]

You lose any remaining credibility with childish hyperbole like this.

I'm speaking figuratively obviously, but its utterly insane that people like you are completely fine with our government throwing hundreds of billions at this issue that isn't even anywhere close to being the biggest killer of Canadians and are also fine with wreaking people's livelihoods and placing an even larger burden on future generations so easily. Its sad really.

[Local_NG_Idiot]

Since mid-September Ontario has had 1041 deaths recorded, so if the 200 LTC deaths is correct, LTC has made up less than 20% of the current deaths from Covid that we are seeing.

Don't know where you got that from, but its incorrect. Again straight from Ontario government website:

https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data

At the start of September we were at 2,812 and to date we're at about 3,361.

you're right, I grabbed the incorrect # there. So 36% of deaths are from LTCs since mid September.

Except many haven't which is why there's still some LTCs that have significant numbers of infections and deaths. They had the entire summer to get prepared and they still failed while other LTCs have had low to almost no infections and deaths since the beginning of the pandemic because they had a plan that they implement before the government ever told them that they needed to.

It's obvious you have no idea with regards to mandated policy/procedure for Ontario LTCs. They aren't allowed to just do whatever they think. Go do some reading.

Over almost a 2 month period now where Ontario has averaged hundreds of daily infections and recently 1000+ daily infections and we've barely doubled the number of people in hospital for covid and THAT'S what you're worried about?? Again back in April-May we had a little over 1,000 people in hospital for the virus and we were still nowhere close to the 10,000+ beds that were made available on an emergency basis by the government.

again, you're wrong. Ontario hospitals do not have that kind of bed volume at their disposal. We went over this the other day. GO READ!

The point that you can't seem to understand is that you can protect LTC where the vast majority of deaths have occurred without destroying the country and it blows my mind why people like you along with our government and medical experts can't ever seem to get that?!??!?

The point that you can't seem to understand is that you can't protect LTC's with 100+ workers who live in areas where the virus has run rampant. It blows my mind why people like you along with those who agree with you can't ever seem to get that and continue to just do whatever the **** they want and pass the blame back onto the government.

Imagine for a moment that if our government and experts stopped wasting time, energy and untold amounts of money testing and chasing down every infection in the general population and put all that effort and resources into simply protecting LTCs and the sick how much more effective and life saving those measures would be? Heck if that's what the government did from the beginning, the number of people saved could've been in the thousands by now.

Also with all the daily, never ending fearmongering by the media, our experts and leaders, it seems like logic has been completely thrown out the door. The cold hard data speaks for itself and if you ever bother to look at the facts and use some reasoning you'd see that this virus isn't all that dangerous to the overwhelming majority of people. The only reason people like you keep insisting covid is such a massive issue is because everyone in the media and our politicians have pounded it into your head that its such a huge problem.

What if I told you there's a medical issue/disease that kills 120+ Canadians each and every day meaning more than 43,000 people die of it every year? What if I told you that this disease even though it affects the elderly more severely that it affects younger people as well in far higher numbers than covid does? Would you be concerned or not? What if I told you that issue was heart disease and stroke?

Somehow that issue that affects far more age demographics from younger to older and takes many more Canadian lives EVERY SINGLE YEAR compared to a virus that will eventually leave and takes 4 times less lives gets so little attention and is feared so much less by the public? Why is that? Is it maybe because the media and our politicans and medical experts aren't pounding it into your head 24/7/365 days a year that 120+ Canadians are dying by heart disease and stroke and its something you should CONSTANTLY be afraid of and are forcing you to make life choices to drastically lower the number of heart and stroke deaths?

hey, go read. You can't contract heart disease from an airborne virus that gets passed from person to person. Furthermore, hospitals are at near capacity, who gets treatment when they fill up, heart disease patients or covid patients? Let me know that answer bud.

Seriously there are other things that kill Canadians at a much higher rate CONSISTENTLY EVERY SINGLE YEAR and affects many more people and not just the elderly and sick and yet we don't give a damn because the media and our leaders don't give a damn, but yet this virus is something we need to completely lose our minds over?

Heart and stroke deaths, cancer deaths, drug overdose deaths etc. affects people of all age demographics all across the country and kills many times more Canadians. With covid, take out Ontario and Quebec and you just removed 91.6% OF ALL VIRUS DEATHS IN ALL OF CANADA which makes all the other provinces and territories going nuts over this virus look even more stupid.

I mean really lets be real. If you turned off your TV and stopped using the internet and your phone and simply went out and lived your life, I bet you a billion dollars you'd never even know that a pandemic was going on with how non-lethal this virus is.

grow up, be an adult, and stop being selfish for a little while and you will help the most vulnerable in those LTCs you seem to care so much about.

[RIP Kobe]

You lose any remaining credibility with childish hyperbole like this.

I'm speaking figuratively obviously, but its utterly insane that people like you are completely fine with our government throwing hundreds of billions at this issue that isn't even anywhere close to being the biggest killer of Canadians and are also fine with wreaking people's livelihoods and placing an even larger burden on future generations so easily. Its sad really.

some people just wanna see the world burn. we, and our children, will be suffering in the long run over this "virus"

[Fairview4Life]

In just the last three pages we went from me losing my mind over an LTC worker "living her life" and going to a Halloween party, to someone saying all we need to do is protect LTC residents and everyone else can live their lives and not at all connecting the dots.

A close family friend aspirated and collapsed in his house 2 weeks ago. He needed oxygen and emergency services quickly. There was a volunteer fire department station about 5k down the road but they were removed from EHS dispatch because they aren't prepped with PPE for Covid response and an ambulance had to be sent from the closest hospital. Took 45 minutes to get there. He was pronounced dead at the hospital.

We will have widepsread distribution of a highly effective vaccine within the next 6 months. Some of you are too stupid and selfish to get us there apparently.

[GQStylin]

It's obvious you have no idea with regards to mandated policy/procedure for Ontario LTCs. They aren't allowed to just do whatever they think. Go do some reading.

I did do some reading. Did you?

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/nobody-died-in-these-nursing-homes-what-did-they-do-right-1.4998204

'However, amid the alarming numbers, are the lesser-known stories of nursing homes that did not face a crisis. In interviews with several long-term care providers representing roughly two dozen long-term care facilities that had no or very few cases and were quickly contained, a combination of early planning, monitoring and timing seemed to have helped put these facilities on a different course.

This meant taking precautions and action before they were mandated or recommended by the government. Screenings as far back as January, sourcing extra personal protective equipment (PPE) before the shortages hit, reorganizing and beefing up staffing early were just some of the measures these homes say helped prevent an outbreak like the ones that ravaged numerous other facilities, especially across Ontario and Quebec.'

Imagine if they waited for the government to tell them what to do, they and their patients would've been screwed. And imagine if our government actually did put in proper rules and regulations AND ACTUALLY ENFORCED THEM how much better off the long term care industry would be long before the virus hit.

again, you're wrong. Ontario hospitals do not have that kind of bed volume at their disposal. We went over this the other day. GO READ!

Again THEY DID because the Ontario government took action to make that space expecting the province to be hit hard by the virus. This is STRAIGHT FROM THE GOVERNMENT WEBSITE:

https://www.fao-on.org/en/Blog/Publications/health-2020

Figure 4‑2: Impact of Measures on Hospital Bed Availability

Total Available Beds Prior to the COVID-19 Outbreak - 906


Measures to Increase Bed Availability for COVID-19 Patients

Cancelling elective surgeries and other measures taken by hospitals to free-up existing capacity - 6,849
Moving hospital patients to alternative places of care - 1,000
New funded beds - 1,500

Total Beds Available for COVID-19 Patients as of April 14 - 10,255

Please go read and as you said 'get educated'. That government article literally details everything they did in the first couple of months of the pandemic.

The point that you can't seem to understand is that you can't protect LTC's with 100+ workers who live in areas where the virus has run rampant. It blows my mind why people like you along with those who agree with you can't ever seem to get that and continue to just do whatever the **** they want and pass the blame back onto the government.

YOU CAN if you have the right plan and are willing to put in the work to do it. Those LTC facilities that are listed in the first article I linked proved that its possible. If they're able to have a plan in place and are able to implement it to save their patients and keep them safe, why can't our government learn from them and do the same? Because they're EFFING IDIOTS who even after being caught off guard the first time, didn't take the lull during the summer months to put the same measures in place as those successful LTCs did.

hey, go read. You can't contract heart disease from an airborne virus that gets passed from person to person. Furthermore, hospitals are at near capacity, who gets treatment when they fill up, heart disease patients or covid patients? Let me know that answer bud.

I DON'T CARE about how you get the virus, I DO CARE about how many people it affects and how many people die from something. Clearly heart disease and strokes are a far more dangerous killer and affects far more age groups every year than this virus does and yet it doesn't get even a tiny fraction of coverage that covid does.

grow up, be an adult, and stop being selfish for a little while and you will help the most vulnerable in those LTCs you seem to care so much about.

I just find it interesting that in years and decades past probably not once in your life did you give a damn about these same seniors and sick people in LTCs when they died annually by the thousands from other virus', infections and causes around the country and yet suddenly when they die by covid you care about each and every one of them? Yeah ok.

Why not just admit that without LTC patient deaths that account for some 80% or so of all covid deaths in Canada, that all the people going nuts over this virus and our politicians and experts would have almost nothing to freak out over and use to control the population with?

[NBA Sheady]

It bears repeating.

Anyone focused solely on deaths is not informed. There is a huge list of very serious long term effects of this disease.

I'm not disputing that some people experience side effects even after recovery, but it also bears repeating that the number of people who are experiencing those side effects are very small in number.

Citation needed.

It bears repeating.

Anyone focused solely on deaths is not informed. There is a huge list of very serious long term effects of this disease.

I'm not disputing that some people experience side effects even after recovery, but it also bears repeating that the number of people who are experiencing those side effects are very small in number. The media is blowing this virus into a huge story every single day from all possible angles, so if all these various side effects and conditions post covid recovery were so widespread like it affects 30, 40 or 50%+ of recovered patients, don't you think that they'd have blown that up so that everyone would know about it by now? Don't you think there'd be numerous reports and studies that would also say the same thing?

If you're capable of reading actual science there is quite a bit published on all the side effects.

This is my point. Side effect A is 0.05% of cases and then side effect B is 0.07% of cases. If someone were to publish a meta-analysis of all these side effects that total % of people effected by one side effect or another is NOT LOW.

[NBA Sheady]

You lose any remaining credibility with childish hyperbole like this.

I'm speaking figuratively obviously, but its utterly insane that people like you are completely fine with our government throwing hundreds of billions at this issue that isn't even anywhere close to being the biggest killer of Canadians and are also fine with wreaking people's livelihoods and placing an even larger burden on future generations so easily. Its sad really.

You're making utterly ridiculous assumptions about me. I suspect you're applying the same lack of critical thinking to understanding this pandemic.

[Local_NG_Idiot]

I did do some reading. Did you?

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/nobody-died-in-these-nursing-homes-what-did-they-do-right-1.4998204

'However, amid the alarming numbers, are the lesser-known stories of nursing homes that did not face a crisis. In interviews with several long-term care providers representing roughly two dozen long-term care facilities that had no or very few cases and were quickly contained, a combination of early planning, monitoring and timing seemed to have helped put these facilities on a different course.

This meant taking precautions and action before they were mandated or recommended by the government. Screenings as far back as January, sourcing extra personal protective equipment (PPE) before the shortages hit, reorganizing and beefing up staffing early were just some of the measures these homes say helped prevent an outbreak like the ones that ravaged numerous other facilities, especially across Ontario and Quebec.'

Imagine if they waited for the government to tell them what to do, they and their patients would've been screwed. And imagine if our government actually did put in proper rules and regulations AND ACTUALLY ENFORCED THEM how much better off the long term care industry would be long before the virus hit.

You want to know where they took their early planning and preventative measures from? Each LHIN had a Covid Task Group in place by late February made up of individuals from employees from LTCs of the area, care partners specialists, local hospital officials and other regional specialists. These task groups still meet daily to discuss the issues they face and the best solutions to those issues that are allowed within the Long-Term Care Homes Act.

Didn't know that did you. Imagine health officials (upon government directive) working their regular job, and then put in another 35+ hours per week helping LTCs come up with solutions to keep their residents and staff at the lowest risk possible, and continuing to do so since February.

From those task groups, best practice directives have been developed and deployed. You literally are completely out of your depth and are ignorant to what has actually been implemented and by whom.

Again THEY DID because the Ontario government took action to make that space expecting the province to be hit hard by the virus. This is STRAIGHT FROM THE GOVERNMENT WEBSITE:

https://www.fao-on.org/en/Blog/Publications/health-2020

Figure 4‑2: Impact of Measures on Hospital Bed Availability

Total Available Beds Prior to the COVID-19 Outbreak - 906


Measures to Increase Bed Availability for COVID-19 Patients

Cancelling elective surgeries and other measures taken by hospitals to free-up existing capacity - 6,849
Moving hospital patients to alternative places of care - 1,000
New funded beds - 1,500

Total Beds Available for COVID-19 Patients as of April 14 - 10,255

Please go read and as you said 'get educated'. That government article literally details everything they did in the first couple of months of the pandemic.

As I stated before, that was a precautionary measure early on that was criticized heavily for delaying and canceling necessary treatments to Ontario patients. Now, you are advocating to repeat this mistake when hospitals are at capacity again (where some are already) and want to force them to choose who gets treatment and who doesn't so you can go about your 'normal day' without a worry. Get outta here with this garbage.

I DON'T CARE about how you get the virus,

Of course you don't, that much is clear.

I DO CARE about how many people it affects and how many people die from something. Clearly heart disease and strokes are a far more dangerous killer and affects far more age groups every year than this virus does and yet it doesn't get even a tiny fraction of coverage that covid does.

If I have heart disease, I can't infect you with it when we come in contact or when we share an enclosed space. This is the dumbest analogy I've seen, like really **** stupid.

I just find it interesting that in years and decades past probably not once in your life did you give a damn about these same seniors and sick people in LTCs when they died annually by the thousands from other virus', infections and causes around the country and yet suddenly when they die by covid you care about each and every one of them? Yeah ok.

Aren't you the one that has been advocating for the elderly here and protecting them? WTF are you even ranting on about here?

Why not just admit that without LTC patient deaths that account for some 80% or so of all covid deaths in Canada, that all the people going nuts over this virus and our politicians and experts would have almost nothing to freak out over and use to control the population with?

There is a direct correlation between localized community spread and the same communities' LTC homes having outbreaks. LTCs homes exist, you cannot just ignore them like you seem to want to. The community needs to do their part in lowering viral load in order to protect the residence within the LTCs. This isn't rocket science and the data and preventative measures are there, you just continue to chose not to follow them and continue to be a selfish individual who refuses to accept any level of personal responsibility within your own community.

[Bomboclot416]

Since mid-September Ontario has had 1041 deaths recorded, so if the 200 LTC deaths is correct, LTC has made up less than 20% of the current deaths from Covid that we are seeing.

Don't know where you got that from, but its incorrect. Again straight from Ontario government website:

https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data

At the start of September we were at 2,812 and to date we're at about 3,361.

you're right, I grabbed the incorrect # there. So 36% of deaths are from LTCs since mid September.

Except many haven't which is why there's still some LTCs that have significant numbers of infections and deaths. They had the entire summer to get prepared and they still failed while other LTCs have had low to almost no infections and deaths since the beginning of the pandemic because they had a plan that they implement before the government ever told them that they needed to.

It's obvious you have no idea with regards to mandated policy/procedure for Ontario LTCs. They aren't allowed to just do whatever they think. Go do some reading.

Over almost a 2 month period now where Ontario has averaged hundreds of daily infections and recently 1000+ daily infections and we've barely doubled the number of people in hospital for covid and THAT'S what you're worried about?? Again back in April-May we had a little over 1,000 people in hospital for the virus and we were still nowhere close to the 10,000+ beds that were made available on an emergency basis by the government.

again, you're wrong. Ontario hospitals do not have that kind of bed volume at their disposal. We went over this the other day. GO READ!

The point that you can't seem to understand is that you can protect LTC where the vast majority of deaths have occurred without destroying the country and it blows my mind why people like you along with our government and medical experts can't ever seem to get that?!??!?

The point that you can't seem to understand is that you can't protect LTC's with 100+ workers who live in areas where the virus has run rampant. It blows my mind why people like you along with those who agree with you can't ever seem to get that and continue to just do whatever the **** they want and pass the blame back onto the government.

Imagine for a moment that if our government and experts stopped wasting time, energy and untold amounts of money testing and chasing down every infection in the general population and put all that effort and resources into simply protecting LTCs and the sick how much more effective and life saving those measures would be? Heck if that's what the government did from the beginning, the number of people saved could've been in the thousands by now.

Also with all the daily, never ending fearmongering by the media, our experts and leaders, it seems like logic has been completely thrown out the door. The cold hard data speaks for itself and if you ever bother to look at the facts and use some reasoning you'd see that this virus isn't all that dangerous to the overwhelming majority of people. The only reason people like you keep insisting covid is such a massive issue is because everyone in the media and our politicians have pounded it into your head that its such a huge problem.

What if I told you there's a medical issue/disease that kills 120+ Canadians each and every day meaning more than 43,000 people die of it every year? What if I told you that this disease even though it affects the elderly more severely that it affects younger people as well in far higher numbers than covid does? Would you be concerned or not? What if I told you that issue was heart disease and stroke?

Somehow that issue that affects far more age demographics from younger to older and takes many more Canadian lives EVERY SINGLE YEAR compared to a virus that will eventually leave and takes 4 times less lives gets so little attention and is feared so much less by the public? Why is that? Is it maybe because the media and our politicans and medical experts aren't pounding it into your head 24/7/365 days a year that 120+ Canadians are dying by heart disease and stroke and its something you should CONSTANTLY be afraid of and are forcing you to make life choices to drastically lower the number of heart and stroke deaths?

hey, go read. You can't contract heart disease from an airborne virus that gets passed from person to person. Furthermore, hospitals are at near capacity, who gets treatment when they fill up, heart disease patients or covid patients? Let me know that answer bud.

Seriously there are other things that kill Canadians at a much higher rate CONSISTENTLY EVERY SINGLE YEAR and affects many more people and not just the elderly and sick and yet we don't give a damn because the media and our leaders don't give a damn, but yet this virus is something we need to completely lose our minds over?

Heart and stroke deaths, cancer deaths, drug overdose deaths etc. affects people of all age demographics all across the country and kills many times more Canadians. With covid, take out Ontario and Quebec and you just removed 91.6% OF ALL VIRUS DEATHS IN ALL OF CANADA which makes all the other provinces and territories going nuts over this virus look even more stupid.

I mean really lets be real. If you turned off your TV and stopped using the internet and your phone and simply went out and lived your life, I bet you a billion dollars you'd never even know that a pandemic was going on with how non-lethal this virus is.

grow up, be an adult, and stop being selfish for a little while and you will help the most vulnerable in those LTCs you seem to care so much about.

I am sorry you have stated so many falsehoods.....The healthcare system had a ton of beds....with a minimal amount being occupied so yes there absolutely was capacity that was never utilized.

LTC doesn't have standards which is why there were roach and rat infested homes with widespread infection and no PPE for staff.

What are you talking about and why are you so argumentative with the incorrect info? Keep your communist thoughts to yourself.

[Raps in 4]

Keep your communist thoughts to yourself.

[Local_NG_Idiot]

I am sorry you have stated so many falsehoods.....The healthcare system had a ton of beds....with a minimal amount being occupied so yes there absolutely was capacity that was never utilized.

from your buddies link above:

The average occupancy rate of the Province’s acute care beds was 96 per cent in 2018-19, including approximately 28 hospitals where the average occupancy rate for the year was over 100 per cent.

in emergency measures, they had to displace acute care patients and delay necessary care for others in order to free up beds for emergency purposes in the spring.

as of right now: https://ca.news.yahoo.com/why-ontario-hospitals-full-bursting-090000080.html

So, I guess I'll ask you the same: WHO DO YOU WANT IN ONTARIO NOT TO RECEIVE CARE IF COVID #S CONTINUE TO RISE?

LTC doesn't have standards which is why there were roach and rat infested homes with widespread infection and no PPE for staff.

go do some reading there bud.
http://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/public/programs/ltc/docs/ltcha_guide_phase1.pdf

What are you talking about and why are you so argumentative with the incorrect info? Keep your communist thoughts to yourself.

Why are you so ignorant with regards to how Ontario health care works?

[gei]

We've been taught repeatedly in history class about how fear has been the single biggest driver in human behaviour throughout history.

I've always been fascinated about this in a historical context - how fear made humans do things that just didn't make any logical sense.

And now we get to live through it first hand. I think most of us would agree that the collective level of fear is likely at the highest level it's been in our entire lives. That is what is driving the actions of most people. Not numbers, not statistics, not rationality - just fear.

[NBA Sheady]

Keep your communist thoughts to yourself.

I love it when people use words they don't understand.

[NBA Sheady]

We've been taught repeatedly in history class about how fear has been the single biggest driver in human behaviour throughout history.

I've always been fascinated about this in a historical context - how fear made humans do things that just didn't make any logical sense.

And now we get to live through it first hand. I think most of us would agree that the collective level of fear is likely at the highest level it's been in our entire lives. That is what is driving the actions of most people. Not numbers, not statistics, not rationality - just fear.

I genuinely wish people were more afraid. People are not doing enough to slow transmission.

[NBA Sheady]

6,115 new cases yesterday
74 deaths

Uncounted long term side effects that will be a strain on our Universal Health Care system for generations.

[M3tro]

We've been taught repeatedly in history class about how fear has been the single biggest driver in human behaviour throughout history.

I've always been fascinated about this in a historical context - how fear made humans do things that just didn't make any logical sense.

And now we get to live through it first hand. I think most of us would agree that the collective level of fear is likely at the highest level it's been in our entire lives. That is what is driving the actions of most people. Not numbers, not statistics, not rationality - just fear.

COVID is the perfect boogeyman.

It's invisible and can be anywhere, at anytime and anyone can be infected. Trust no one and live in a constant state of paranoia because it could be lurking around any corner! Rinse and repeat for what will be a year and voila; you've successfully conditioned a population.

Now we're supposed to wait for corrupt politicians and pharmaceutical companies to administer a vaccine worldwide so we can all return back to "normal". lol.

There is no going back. This IS the new normal.

[Fairview4Life]

It's only invisible if you ignore the numbers and statistics.