2023 Draft Discussion Part III

[WuTang_CMB]

This team desperately needs an impactful guard. Just solid all around on both ends. That's Cason for me but dont think hes there at 13

[HumbleRen]

His rebounding rate was 4.9, which is beyond awful for someone that big. That's definitely a weakness.

Rebounding is extremely overrated as a guard. It does not concern me at all when it comes to a “weakness”.

I can't find any good NBA guards that had a rebounding rate under 5 at the NCAA level, but maybe you could single out a few to change my mind. While we can give Cissoko credit that he's playing against men and his numbers reflect that, he wasn't a full-time 'guard' with the Ignite and he's big enough that a few balls should have landed in his lap by accident. For a prospect, that's a concern.

Anyway, I'd love to hear why you think it's extremely overrated. If a guard can rebound that's an obvious plus for me because they can initiate the break right away.

Half of a guards rebounds in the nba is the other teammates boxing out other guys so the guard can simply grab it and push the offence down the floor. That's why I'm not too concerned with a guard's rebounding rate.

[HumbleRen]

My issue with Gradey Dick is defense is poor. Yes he has quick hands and gets steals but we saw with Gary Trent Jr sure that's fine but in pressure situations you're going to get targeted. It happened to Gradey in college quite often and usually the Raptors philosophy they want someone who has a good defense base.

Hopefully we get a new coach or Nurse adapts to his roster rather than being so rigid in his philosophy.

Every single playoff team has players who play starter level minutes who aren’t above average at defence. Why can they get away with it but we can’t ?

I think that’s something Masai and Nurse need to discuss.

I think it's more of a team philosophy than Nick's. What I'm looking for at the end of the lottery is someone who can give me both offense and defense.

Beggers can't be choosers when you're at the 13th pick haha. If Grady Dick miraculously to 13, you take it and run for the moon.

We'll see how it shakes out though.

[Brinbe]

My issue with Gradey Dick is defense is poor. Yes he has quick hands and gets steals but we saw with Gary Trent Jr sure that's fine but in pressure situations you're going to get targeted. It happened to Gradey in college quite often and usually the Raptors philosophy they want someone who has a good defense base.

Hopefully we get a new coach or Nurse adapts to his roster rather than being so rigid in his philosophy.

Every single playoff team has players who play starter level minutes who aren’t above average at defence. Why can they get away with it but we can’t ?

I think that’s something Masai and Nurse need to discuss.

I think it's more of a team philosophy than Nick's. What I'm looking for at the end of the lottery is someone who can give me both offense and defense.

i'm with you there. the offense has to be elite for it to really be worth it.

I don't think we need to abandon that principle. we just need to find ready-made shooters that can defend instead of trying to purely develop them. but our whole approach with shooting needs a re-think because they were amongst the worst in the league this year and that's an organisational failure.

[Spates]

Late lottery is a tough spot. Pretty much getting the leftovers and guys who've dropped over the year and hoping they're decent. This is how the Wiz end up with a guy like Johnny Davis...

Ideally we get a guy like Taylor Hendricks, Cason Wallace or Jordan Hawkins but not sure they'll drop to us. The smart teams will snatch those guys up.

Not sure about George, Dick, Nick Smith or JHS. All have question marks and you're playing the lotto hoping he pans out.

Would laugh my ass off if they go take a flier on GG Jackson or the shocker in Cissoko.

But it's good to know we're at 13. Maybe they make a big move and try to trade up for someone?

I'm past all the whining at this point. We know they fd up, nothing we can do to change that now.

All we can do is evaluate this talent best we can ourselves and see if the raptors can still identify good talent and learn from their past mistakes in terms of player evaluation/team building.

Basically, does Masai still have it? Or maybe it's Bobby if he's making a lot of these recent decisions? This draft and off-season will tell us an awful lot about the macro direction of this franchise.

The answer is Kobe Bufkin. I'm riding with him come hell or high water. I'm impressed by his pace, burst, and ability to finish through contact. We're desperate for downhill pressure and he brings it.

[Son Goku 25]

Is there a Giannis, Luka, embiid, jokic in this draft or potentially from international ball?

[BoyzNTheHood]

Take a gamble, draft the player with the highest ceiling, we desperately need the talent, it ain't coming in free agency.

This is why I've been keen on Coulibaly.

If you really want to go home run swinging though, GG Jackson fits the bill. Rare to find athletes at that age with that skill set. I also think some of his worst tendencies can be attributed to age and a poor, unstructured environment.

If he were to transfer to a good program like Houston next year, he'd be in contention for #1 overall.

He should’ve stuck with UNC

[BoyzNTheHood]

Is there a Giannis, Luka, embiid, jokic in this draft or potentially from international ball?

This one guy named Victor Wembanyama

[HumbleRen]

Late lottery is a tough spot. Pretty much getting the leftovers and guys who've dropped over the year and hoping they're decent. This is how the Wiz end up with a guy like Johnny Davis...

Ideally we get a guy like Taylor Hendricks, Cason Wallace or Jordan Hawkins but not sure they'll drop to us. The smart teams will snatch those guys up.

Not sure about George, Dick, Nick Smith or JHS. All have question marks and you're playing the lotto hoping he pans out.

Would laugh my ass off if they go take a flier on GG Jackson or the shocker in Cissoko.

But it's good to know we're at 13. Maybe they make a big move and try to trade up for someone?

I'm past all the whining at this point. We know they fd up, nothing we can do to change that now.

All we can do is evaluate this talent best we can ourselves and see if the raptors can still identify good talent and learn from their past mistakes in terms of player evaluation/team building.

Basically, does Masai still have it? Or maybe it's Bobby if he's making a lot of these recent decisions? This draft and off-season will tell us an awful lot about the macro direction of this franchise.

The answer is Kobe Bufkin. I'm riding with him come hell or high water. I'm impressed by his pace, burst, and ability to finish through contact. We're desperate for downhill pressure and he brings it.

Dear god do we need downhill pressure.

I have a feeling that Bufkin's stock is going to rise to the moon as draft day gets closer. Hopefully hes still available when it's our turn to pick.

[Brinbe]

Late lottery is a tough spot. Pretty much getting the leftovers and guys who've dropped over the year and hoping they're decent. This is how the Wiz end up with a guy like Johnny Davis...

Ideally we get a guy like Taylor Hendricks, Cason Wallace or Jordan Hawkins but not sure they'll drop to us. The smart teams will snatch those guys up.

Not sure about George, Dick, Nick Smith or JHS. All have question marks and you're playing the lotto hoping he pans out.

Would laugh my ass off if they go take a flier on GG Jackson or the shocker in Cissoko.

But it's good to know we're at 13. Maybe they make a big move and try to trade up for someone?

I'm past all the whining at this point. We know they fd up, nothing we can do to change that now.

All we can do is evaluate this talent best we can ourselves and see if the raptors can still identify good talent and learn from their past mistakes in terms of player evaluation/team building.

Basically, does Masai still have it? Or maybe it's Bobby if he's making a lot of these recent decisions? This draft and off-season will tell us an awful lot about the macro direction of this franchise.

The answer is Kobe Bufkin. I'm riding with him come hell or high water. I'm impressed by his pace, burst, and ability to finish through contact. We're desperate for downhill pressure and he brings it.

Good call. I can see it. Replace what we've lacked since Norm. That is def a guy that can play off guys like scottie or og if they go in that direction.

But yeah, that's someone who will rise once people start paying attention.

[Rapsfan07]

I disagree. If Dick is there he fits perfectly with Scottie and Pascal if we decide to continue forward with this core. Either way, he fits perfectly with Scottie. That would be a dream scenario.

I'm of the belief that we don't need anymore role players. Gradey Dick, for all the hype that he gets around his shooting (which is due btw, he is a phenomenal shooter) doesn't project to me to be more than a Kispert type.

It's really important that we do better than that here in this draft, especially if we're going to stay at #13. We need to be targeting a player who is a three level scorer or has three level scoring potential.

I have to say, I don’t see the Kispert comparison outside of the shooting. With that said, is it safe to assume that you’d prefer the likes of George, Sensabaugh, Howard, and Bufkin over Gradey?

Yes it would be. I like Bufkin a lot, George a little and the other two not at all

[HumbleRen]

Bufkin is slender but he got them FVV paws.

[Son Goku 25]

Is there a Giannis, Luka, embiid, jokic in this draft or potentially from international ball?

This one guy named Victor Wembanyama

Damn had no idea

[Spates]

Late lottery is a tough spot. Pretty much getting the leftovers and guys who've dropped over the year and hoping they're decent. This is how the Wiz end up with a guy like Johnny Davis...

Ideally we get a guy like Taylor Hendricks, Cason Wallace or Jordan Hawkins but not sure they'll drop to us. The smart teams will snatch those guys up.

Not sure about George, Dick, Nick Smith or JHS. All have question marks and you're playing the lotto hoping he pans out.

Would laugh my ass off if they go take a flier on GG Jackson or the shocker in Cissoko.

But it's good to know we're at 13. Maybe they make a big move and try to trade up for someone?

I'm past all the whining at this point. We know they fd up, nothing we can do to change that now.

All we can do is evaluate this talent best we can ourselves and see if the raptors can still identify good talent and learn from their past mistakes in terms of player evaluation/team building.

Basically, does Masai still have it? Or maybe it's Bobby if he's making a lot of these recent decisions? This draft and off-season will tell us an awful lot about the macro direction of this franchise.

The answer is Kobe Bufkin. I'm riding with him come hell or high water. I'm impressed by his pace, burst, and ability to finish through contact. We're desperate for downhill pressure and he brings it.

Dear god do we need downhill pressure.

I have a feeling that Bufkin's stock is going to rise to the moon as draft day gets closer. Hopefully hes still available when it's our turn to pick.

Oh yeah, I suspect he'll be gone by 13. It's too bad. Not sure who else stands out to me. I don't really like George. Maybe I just need to watch more game tape. Bufkin seems multidimensional in comparison.

[Spates]

Late lottery is a tough spot. Pretty much getting the leftovers and guys who've dropped over the year and hoping they're decent. This is how the Wiz end up with a guy like Johnny Davis...

Ideally we get a guy like Taylor Hendricks, Cason Wallace or Jordan Hawkins but not sure they'll drop to us. The smart teams will snatch those guys up.

Not sure about George, Dick, Nick Smith or JHS. All have question marks and you're playing the lotto hoping he pans out.

Would laugh my ass off if they go take a flier on GG Jackson or the shocker in Cissoko.

But it's good to know we're at 13. Maybe they make a big move and try to trade up for someone?

I'm past all the whining at this point. We know they fd up, nothing we can do to change that now.

All we can do is evaluate this talent best we can ourselves and see if the raptors can still identify good talent and learn from their past mistakes in terms of player evaluation/team building.

Basically, does Masai still have it? Or maybe it's Bobby if he's making a lot of these recent decisions? This draft and off-season will tell us an awful lot about the macro direction of this franchise.

The answer is Kobe Bufkin. I'm riding with him come hell or high water. I'm impressed by his pace, burst, and ability to finish through contact. We're desperate for downhill pressure and he brings it.

Good call. I can see it. Replace what we've lacked since Norm. That is def a guy that can play off guys like scottie or og if they go in that direction.

But yeah, that's someone who will rise once people start paying attention.

Exactly. It's important to have guys that can play on and off-ball. I think it's huge in the modern NBA and these guys will always have value. It's about getting the defense moving. In his scouting reports he is always turning the corner on defenders. It can open up so much.

[Thaddy]

His rebounding rate was 4.9, which is beyond awful for someone that big. That's definitely a weakness.

Rebounding is extremely overrated as a guard. It does not concern me at all when it comes to a “weakness”.

I can't find any good NBA guards that had a rebounding rate under 5 at the NCAA level, but maybe you could single out a few to change my mind. While we can give Cissoko credit that he's playing against men and his numbers reflect that, he wasn't a full-time 'guard' with the Ignite and he's big enough that a few balls should have landed in his lap by accident. For a prospect, that's a concern.

Anyway, I'd love to hear why you think it's extremely overrated. If a guard can rebound that's an obvious plus for me because they can initiate the break right away.

A low rebounding rate indicates a player is soft, but I don't see him looking to avoid contact or physicality. I'm going to lean on the Champagnie match up and he was looking for leak outs and stopping the opposing transition offense. He also looks to protect the rim and contest shots instead of waiting for a rebound. The FTr he has outweighs this negative from my perspective. Cissoko isn't playing against college athletes either so the numbers aren't exactly comparable.

It's an issue though with prospects going through the Ignite route. They don't have as much to win and they are there for developmental purposes. He looked good against the top 1% of college players not in the league, and he performed well against those on 2-way contracts. I think he can potentially be a NBA ready piece next year, but most likely we need to develop him for another year as a guard before he's usable.

At the very least I am sure he will be better than Banton right out of the gate. The safer pick would be Wallace (out of our range) and Rupert (within our range and slightly better skills).

[nowayguy]

The NBA is due for another team in the 11-14 range to move up in the lottery. We're picking Top 4, no doubt.

[DG88]

Late lottery is a tough spot. Pretty much getting the leftovers and guys who've dropped over the year and hoping they're decent. This is how the Wiz end up with a guy like Johnny Davis...

Ideally we get a guy like Taylor Hendricks, Cason Wallace or Jordan Hawkins but not sure they'll drop to us. The smart teams will snatch those guys up.

Not sure about George, Dick, Nick Smith or JHS. All have question marks and you're playing the lotto hoping he pans out.

Would laugh my ass off if they go take a flier on GG Jackson or the shocker in Cissoko.

But it's good to know we're at 13. Maybe they make a big move and try to trade up for someone?

I'm past all the whining at this point. We know they fd up, nothing we can do to change that now.

All we can do is evaluate this talent best we can ourselves and see if the raptors can still identify good talent and learn from their past mistakes in terms of player evaluation/team building.

Basically, does Masai still have it? Or maybe it's Bobby if he's making a lot of these recent decisions? This draft and off-season will tell us an awful lot about the macro direction of this franchise.

The answer is Kobe Bufkin. I'm riding with him come hell or high water. I'm impressed by his pace, burst, and ability to finish through contact. We're desperate for downhill pressure and he brings it.

Good call. I can see it. Replace what we've lacked since Norm. That is def a guy that can play off guys like scottie or og if they go in that direction.

But yeah, that's someone who will rise once people start paying attention.

Yup and he can play both on and off ball. He's the guy I want is to pick plus he's a lefty!

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

Bufkin's ability to drive and finish both ways is actually huge. He brings the dribbling and shooting and lane penetration and shot creation with considerable upside. He's not even close to a finished product by any means and is raw in many areas.

[DG88]

Bufkin's ability to drive and finish both ways is actually huge. He brings the dribbling and shooting and lane penetration and shot creation with considerable upside. He's not even close to a finished product by any means and is raw in many areas.

Plus he's only 19 as a sophomore. He still very young and has so much room to improve.