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Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 9

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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 9 

Post#1201 » by tsherkin » Tue May 27, 2025 11:27 pm

Scase wrote:The fact that 4 years in he's still atrocious at screening is a concern.


There are many concerns, sure.

But at this point, it's probably best to pivot into a look at what we can look forward to instead. We're all WELL familiar with the negatives, right?

But we've got better spacing, some guys should be healthier, some guys should be developing and we don't need to play Scottie in a manner which does not play to his strengths. So we have more room to experiment with the desired role, and to shape his playing time in a way which is most advantageous to positive results from him.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 9 

Post#1202 » by Scase » Wed May 28, 2025 1:36 am

tsherkin wrote:
Scase wrote:The fact that 4 years in he's still atrocious at screening is a concern.


There are many concerns, sure.

But at this point, it's probably best to pivot into a look at what we can look forward to instead. We're all WELL familiar with the negatives, right?

But we've got better spacing, some guys should be healthier, some guys should be developing and we don't need to play Scottie in a manner which does not play to his strengths. So we have more room to experiment with the desired role, and to shape his playing time in a way which is most advantageous to positive results from him.

Hopefully the mandate from up high to force everything through him is over. The ATB 3's were giving me migraines.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 9 

Post#1203 » by tsherkin » Wed May 28, 2025 2:49 am

Scase wrote:Hopefully the mandate from up high to force everything through him is over. The ATB 3's were giving me migraines.


Well, let's see what happens.

Let's see who our primary ball-handler is. Let's see how Ingram wants to integrate into the offense. Let's see what everything looks like when he, Scottie and Quick are on the floor together, you know? There are a lot of options becoming available at the start of the season.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 9 

Post#1204 » by HangTime » Wed May 28, 2025 3:44 am

tsherkin wrote:
HangTime wrote:I hope he attempts like 4-6 threes per game next season.


I sincerely hope not.

So if he's healthy, I can see him shoot like 37%, as along as he doesn't have to go all out as a POA defender (that's where dip happened after the OG trade)


Seems unlikely. OG's last game was December 29th, which means Barnes had played 31 games during the period you're describing. That isn't really a useful, meaningful sample. That's a hot streak.

EDIT: Also, 5+ 3PA/g would imply he's shooting 15+ FGA/g, which would also be a bad idea.



There was also a huge role change to integrate IQ and RJ on offense, and for Scottie to take over OG's role on defense. That's like an off-season type of change. That basically took his legs out.

I don't think people are looking at why there was a dip, they just see the dip in the numbers.

and yeah, 5 3PA/gper game would be great, maybe take a couple, in the first 9 minutes to see if he can pull a centre, or wing shot blocker away from the rim/passing lane.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 9 

Post#1205 » by LoveMyRaps » Wed May 28, 2025 4:10 am

I hope Scottie can be as good as Pascal.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 9 

Post#1206 » by tsherkin » Wed May 28, 2025 4:23 am

HangTime wrote:There was also a huge role change to integrate IQ and RJ on offense, and for Scottie to take over OG's role on defense. That's like an off-season type of change. That basically took his legs out.


More excuses. Nothing but excuses.

and yeah, 5 3PA/gper game would be great, maybe take a couple, in the first 9 minutes to see if he can pull a centre, or wing shot blocker away from the rim/passing lane.


Would be awful. He's a very bad 3pt shooter. We need to confine him to shooting from the corners off of kick-outs, and then he'll do all right, which will have a net-positive impact on his offensive value.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 9 

Post#1207 » by HangTime » Wed May 28, 2025 4:30 am

tsherkin wrote:
HangTime wrote:There was also a huge role change to integrate IQ and RJ on offense, and for Scottie to take over OG's role on defense. That's like an off-season type of change. That basically took his legs out.


More excuses. Nothing but excuses.


and yeah, 5 3PA/gper game would be great, maybe take a couple, in the first 9 minutes to see if he can pull a centre, or wing shot blocker away from the rim/passing lane.


Would be awful. He's a very bad 3pt shooter. We need to confine him to shooting from the corners off of kick-outs, and then he'll do all right, which will have a net-positive impact on his offensive value.


I'd like to know who made as drastic of a change, on the fly, on both sides of the ball.

You call it an excuse, I see what's going on. It really is that simple, if you pay attention.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 9 

Post#1208 » by tsherkin » Wed May 28, 2025 3:09 pm

HangTime wrote: I'd like to know who made as drastic of a change, on the fly, on both sides of the ball.

You call it an excuse, I see what's going on. It really is that simple, if you pay attention.


It's an excuse if you're implying that he's going to magically overcome this to become worthwhile in a focal initiation role as a scoring threat. The role change during the trade didn't do anything meaningful; if he had the tools to score, he would have scored more effectively then or this year. It didn't "take his legs out," which implies stamina issues. He played 0.1 mpg more than the year before, and took 2.5 more shots per game. He wasn't pressed THAT hard. And if somehow he was, then he never had the juice to get it done in the first place. But he was taking literally an extra half shot per game inside the arc and passing a similar amount, but taking more shots from 3. That's it, that's the major change.

He went from taking 1 corner 3 per game and 1.8 ATB threes in 2023 to taking 0.8 corner 3s and 4.1 ATB threes (and shooting 34.7%). Then this year, he was at 0.6 corner 3s and 3.6 ATB 3s, and he tanked out on them very badly, shooting about what he did as a rookie (26.5 this year on 3.6 ATB 3PA/g, 27.9 as a rook on 1.7 ATB 3PA/g).

He's been increasing his 3pt volume the entire time, increasing his passing load the entire time, and largely maintaining a very similar volume from inside the arc. It's not like he's been pressing himself that hard with huge volume swings. He's added shots which are easy to get, and he's horrifically bad at pull-up 3pt shooting.

2022: 0.4/g, 32.6%
2023: 0.7/g, 21.9%
2024: 1.1/g, 17.1%
2025: 1.4/g, 25.5%

Catch and shoot?

2022: 2.1/g, 29.2%
2023: 2.1/g, 30.2%
2024: 3.9/g, 38.4%
2025: 2.8/g, 27.7%

Another big difference? 3P% with 0 dribbles.

2022: 2.2/g, 29.8%
2023: 2.2/g, 30.4%
2024: 3.9/g, 38.6%
2025: 2.9/g, 28.0%

Even last year, the minute he started dribbling before the shot, he couldn't hit it to save his life. Same same if the possession lasted longer than a second or two.





There are better ways to discuss Scottie. Making up excuses for a guy who isn't pressed with huge usage isn't really a solid angle, though. He had a hot streak from 3 and had increased his volume from there. Then he settled back down to what he has now done for 3 of his 4 seasons, which is evidence no real comfort or ability from 3. You call it a "huge role change," but it really, really wasn't. There were barely any perceptible changes in how he was playing other than increased volume from 3, which wasn't really taking anything from his legs. It just isn't what happened.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 9 

Post#1209 » by Jstock12 » Wed May 28, 2025 3:49 pm

Hope he doesn't injure himself, lol

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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 9 

Post#1210 » by tsherkin » Wed May 28, 2025 4:33 pm

Jstock12 wrote:Hope he doesn't injure himself, lol

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"Busy" street?!
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 9 

Post#1211 » by Clay Davis » Wed May 28, 2025 4:38 pm

Jstock12 wrote:Hope he doesn't injure himself, lol

Read on Twitter

Very sad abuse heaped towards Scottie. Twitter has gotten so bad. Why must others... depress the rizz... of others. It make Clay sad
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 9 

Post#1212 » by Tofubeque » Wed May 28, 2025 5:15 pm

Scottie sticking it to car dependency. Doesn’t care what others think of him. High caliper move

He should do it during the day though or get some reflective gear.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 9 

Post#1213 » by ConSarnit » Wed May 28, 2025 5:16 pm

tsherkin wrote:
Scase wrote:The fact that 4 years in he's still atrocious at screening is a concern.


There are many concerns, sure.

But at this point, it's probably best to pivot into a look at what we can look forward to instead. We're all WELL familiar with the negatives, right?

But we've got better spacing, some guys should be healthier, some guys should be developing and we don't need to play Scottie in a manner which does not play to his strengths. So we have more room to experiment with the desired role, and to shape his playing time in a way which is most advantageous to positive results from him.


The big question is: how many guys have actually been able to shift their role in the way we are asking Barnes? He’s effectively played like a guard his entire career. He’s shown very little as a screener or really any of the ways a more traditional big operates on offense. Is he even capable of doing it? I can’t think of any comparables for getting a player to shift their offensive role in the way we are talking about with Barnes.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 9 

Post#1214 » by tsherkin » Wed May 28, 2025 5:26 pm

ConSarnit wrote:
tsherkin wrote:
Scase wrote:The fact that 4 years in he's still atrocious at screening is a concern.


There are many concerns, sure.

But at this point, it's probably best to pivot into a look at what we can look forward to instead. We're all WELL familiar with the negatives, right?

But we've got better spacing, some guys should be healthier, some guys should be developing and we don't need to play Scottie in a manner which does not play to his strengths. So we have more room to experiment with the desired role, and to shape his playing time in a way which is most advantageous to positive results from him.


The big question is: how many guys have actually been able to shift their role in the way we are asking Barnes? He’s effectively played like a guard his entire career. He’s shown very little as a screener or really any of the ways a more traditional big operates on offense. Is he even capable of doing it? I can’t think of any comparables for getting a player to shift their offensive role in the way we are talking about with Barnes.



Hard to imagine him being much worse as a scorer, so we have little to lose on that front.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 9 

Post#1215 » by Tha Cynic » Thu May 29, 2025 2:00 am

Just wanted to pop in here and add to the list - he sucks at roller blading too.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 9 

Post#1216 » by PushDaRock » Thu May 29, 2025 2:07 am

ConSarnit wrote:
tsherkin wrote:
Scase wrote:The fact that 4 years in he's still atrocious at screening is a concern.


There are many concerns, sure.

But at this point, it's probably best to pivot into a look at what we can look forward to instead. We're all WELL familiar with the negatives, right?

But we've got better spacing, some guys should be healthier, some guys should be developing and we don't need to play Scottie in a manner which does not play to his strengths. So we have more room to experiment with the desired role, and to shape his playing time in a way which is most advantageous to positive results from him.


The big question is: how many guys have actually been able to shift their role in the way we are asking Barnes? He’s effectively played like a guard his entire career. He’s shown very little as a screener or really any of the ways a more traditional big operates on offense. Is he even capable of doing it? I can’t think of any comparables for getting a player to shift their offensive role in the way we are talking about with Barnes.


I've said this a lot even going back to when Siakam was on the team but he's most effective (comparatively) as a scorer as a 3 because he gets more size mismatches. As a 4, he effectively loses his size advantage. He struggles to finish over size and length really and he's not quick enough to get around those guys either when he has them out in space.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 9 

Post#1217 » by XTC » Thu May 29, 2025 2:11 am

PushDaRock wrote:
ConSarnit wrote:
tsherkin wrote:
There are many concerns, sure.

But at this point, it's probably best to pivot into a look at what we can look forward to instead. We're all WELL familiar with the negatives, right?

But we've got better spacing, some guys should be healthier, some guys should be developing and we don't need to play Scottie in a manner which does not play to his strengths. So we have more room to experiment with the desired role, and to shape his playing time in a way which is most advantageous to positive results from him.


The big question is: how many guys have actually been able to shift their role in the way we are asking Barnes? He’s effectively played like a guard his entire career. He’s shown very little as a screener or really any of the ways a more traditional big operates on offense. Is he even capable of doing it? I can’t think of any comparables for getting a player to shift their offensive role in the way we are talking about with Barnes.


I've said this a lot even going back to when Siakam was on the team but he's most effective (comparatively) as a scorer as a 3 because he gets more size mismatches. As a 4, he effectively loses his size advantage. He struggles to finish over size and length really and he's not quick enough to get around those guys either when he has them out in space.


It's hard playing him at the 3 considering his shooting. He badly needs to develop a mid range game, and become a consistent 35% shooter from three if he wants to be a small forward.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 9 

Post#1218 » by PushDaRock » Thu May 29, 2025 2:17 am

XTC wrote:
PushDaRock wrote:
ConSarnit wrote:
The big question is: how many guys have actually been able to shift their role in the way we are asking Barnes? He’s effectively played like a guard his entire career. He’s shown very little as a screener or really any of the ways a more traditional big operates on offense. Is he even capable of doing it? I can’t think of any comparables for getting a player to shift their offensive role in the way we are talking about with Barnes.


I've said this a lot even going back to when Siakam was on the team but he's most effective (comparatively) as a scorer as a 3 because he gets more size mismatches. As a 4, he effectively loses his size advantage. He struggles to finish over size and length really and he's not quick enough to get around those guys either when he has them out in space.


It's hard playing him at the 3 considering his shooting. He badly needs to develop a mid range game, and become a consistent 35% shooter from three if he wants to be a small forward.


A lot of people will disagree and think it's a lost cause but I still think it's a necessity that he becomes at least a competent shooter. Unless you're a Giannis or Zion level athlete, you have to be able to shoot at least a bit to be a decent offensive player as a non C.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 9 

Post#1219 » by mdenny » Thu May 29, 2025 2:22 am

Clay Davis wrote:
Jstock12 wrote:Hope he doesn't injure himself, lol

Read on Twitter

Very sad abuse heaped towards Scottie. Twitter has gotten so bad. Why must others... depress the rizz... of others. It make Clay sad


The craziest thing is THAT what it actually looks like when he's running the floor.

I hate that the scotty cult created an unrealistic expectation of him. Having one max rookie extension for his style of player (elite version of Charles oakley) isn't nearly as bad as ppl think it is.

He just needs to be paired with a highly skilled offensive guy. Hopefully Ingram is that.
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Re: Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 9 

Post#1220 » by YoungG » Thu May 29, 2025 2:47 am

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