OT: COVID-19 Ontario 2nd Wave Thread

[M3tro]

It's only invisible if you ignore the numbers and statistics.

Can you physically see the virus without the use of a microscope?

No? that makes it invisible brother.

[Brinbe]

this thread is a constant delight. some of y'all need to do us a favor and go live in south dakota. you'll find your people there.

[gei]

We've been taught repeatedly in history class about how fear has been the single biggest driver in human behaviour throughout history.

I've always been fascinated about this in a historical context - how fear made humans do things that just didn't make any logical sense.

And now we get to live through it first hand. I think most of us would agree that the collective level of fear is likely at the highest level it's been in our entire lives. That is what is driving the actions of most people. Not numbers, not statistics, not rationality - just fear.

I genuinely wish people were more afraid. People are not doing enough to slow transmission.

Right. More fear is always good. Making decisions based on fear is the best way to run a society.

[Local_NG_Idiot]

We've been taught repeatedly in history class about how fear has been the single biggest driver in human behaviour throughout history.

I've always been fascinated about this in a historical context - how fear made humans do things that just didn't make any logical sense.

And now we get to live through it first hand. I think most of us would agree that the collective level of fear is likely at the highest level it's been in our entire lives. That is what is driving the actions of most people. Not numbers, not statistics, not rationality - just fear.

COVID is the perfect boogeyman.

It's invisible and can be anywhere, at anytime and anyone can be infected. Trust no one and live in a constant state of paranoia because it could be lurking around any corner! Rinse and repeat for what will be a year and voila; you've successfully conditioned a population.

Now we're supposed to wait for corrupt politicians and pharmaceutical companies to administer a vaccine worldwide so we can all return back to "normal". lol.

There is no going back. This IS the new normal.

fear can do different things to different people.

it can have people believing covid is just like the flu
it can have people convinced masks do more harm than good
it can make people create conspiracy theories about world tracking and domination
it can even have people post on a message boards that things that are invisible aren't worth fighting against

it can force people to put their fingers in their ears, close their eyes and start yelling incoherently in an attempt to escape reality and hope it will just disappear all on it's own.

[NBA Sheady]

We've been taught repeatedly in history class about how fear has been the single biggest driver in human behaviour throughout history.

I've always been fascinated about this in a historical context - how fear made humans do things that just didn't make any logical sense.

And now we get to live through it first hand. I think most of us would agree that the collective level of fear is likely at the highest level it's been in our entire lives. That is what is driving the actions of most people. Not numbers, not statistics, not rationality - just fear.

I genuinely wish people were more afraid. People are not doing enough to slow transmission.

Right. More fear is always good. Making decisions based on fear is the best way to run a society.

If you know of another means of getting people to do the right thing during the pandemic I'm all ears. We can't make them go back and do grade 7 science again.

[Fairview4Life]

We've been taught repeatedly in history class about how fear has been the single biggest driver in human behaviour throughout history.

I've always been fascinated about this in a historical context - how fear made humans do things that just didn't make any logical sense.

And now we get to live through it first hand. I think most of us would agree that the collective level of fear is likely at the highest level it's been in our entire lives. That is what is driving the actions of most people. Not numbers, not statistics, not rationality - just fear.

I genuinely wish people were more afraid. People are not doing enough to slow transmission.

Right. More fear is always good. Making decisions based on fear is the best way to run a society.

Why don't you go stand in the middle of a highway? Scared of being hit by a car? huh.

[NBA Sheady]

I genuinely wish people were more afraid. People are not doing enough to slow transmission.

Right. More fear is always good. Making decisions based on fear is the best way to run a society.

Why don't you go stand in the middle of a highway? Scared of being hit by a car? huh.

Total sheeple.

[Local_NG_Idiot]

Right. More fear is always good. Making decisions based on fear is the best way to run a society.

They ain't scurred!

https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/cops-bust-illegal-birthday-party-in-etobicoke-storage-unit

Once on scene, police discovered more than 100 people inside a rented storage unit, holding a boisterous — if somewhat cramped — birthday bash.

[gei]

We've been taught repeatedly in history class about how fear has been the single biggest driver in human behaviour throughout history.

I've always been fascinated about this in a historical context - how fear made humans do things that just didn't make any logical sense.

And now we get to live through it first hand. I think most of us would agree that the collective level of fear is likely at the highest level it's been in our entire lives. That is what is driving the actions of most people. Not numbers, not statistics, not rationality - just fear.

COVID is the perfect boogeyman.

It's invisible and can be anywhere, at anytime and anyone can be infected. Trust no one and live in a constant state of paranoia because it could be lurking around any corner! Rinse and repeat for what will be a year and voila; you've successfully conditioned a population.

Now we're supposed to wait for corrupt politicians and pharmaceutical companies to administer a vaccine worldwide so we can all return back to "normal". lol.

There is no going back. This IS the new normal.

fear can do different things to different people.

it can have people believing covid is just like the flu
it can have people convinced masks do more harm than good
it can make people create conspiracy theories about world tracking and domination
it can even have people post on a message boards that things that are invisible aren't worth fighting against

it can force people to put their fingers in their ears, close their eyes and start yelling incoherently in an attempt to escape reality and hope it will just disappear all on it's own.

I agree entirely. There is certainly irrational fear from people about the government trying to microchip them with vaccines or install some sort of authoritarian government that wants to control our every moves.

That being said, if you agree that there is fear causing people to irrationally not take the virus seriously, but don't agree that there is irrational fear that is causing people to take the virus way too seriously, you are just as ignorant as the side you are criticizing.

[Local_NG_Idiot]

That being said, if you agree that there is fear causing people to irrationally not take the virus seriously, but don't agree that there is irrational fear that is causing people to take the virus way too seriously, you are just as ignorant as the side you are criticizing.

I hope you realize the difference between this dichotomy you're presenting right?

[bballsparkin]

If people are caught "more than 100 people inside a rented storage unit, holding a boisterous — if somewhat cramped — birthday bash", yeah fine them. I think that is perfectly reasonable. This whole stay inside mantra is BS. I live in an apartment. The air is incredibly dry in the winter. I can't imagine what it's like having children living in an apartment. Getting outside is good for the immune system and for peoples all around well being. Some people have posh backyard heaters and fire tables. It's not so bad when you can afford comfort. As long as people are not gathering in crowds going outside should not be restricted.

A curfew would be ridiculous. After 10pm is the best time to get out. Go for a walk or run. Avoid people.

https://www.healthing.ca/diseases-and-conditions/coronavirus/wait-are-we-not-allowed-to-hang-out-outdoors-now

Kerry Bowman, a bioethicist and assistant professor at the University of Toronto, says if the government wants people to follow rules, they need to be easy to follow. He says there’s a body of evidence that shows outdoors is safer than indoors when it comes to COVID-19, and simply telling Canadians to no longer see others outside has the potential to backfire.

If the government wants people to follow rules, they need to be easy to follow

People are struggling right now, and taking something considered lower-risk away from folks can have a significant psychological impact.

What’s more, the way the health guidelines are presented is often confusing, meaning people can interpret them in different ways, says Bowman. While the COVID-19 situation is rapidly changing as the pandemic drags on, clear messaging is key to not only getting people on board, but establishing trust between citizens and government leaders.

[gei]

That being said, if you agree that there is fear causing people to irrationally not take the virus seriously, but don't agree that there is irrational fear that is causing people to take the virus way too seriously, you are just as ignorant as the side you are criticizing.

I hope you realize the difference between this dichotomy you're presenting right?

I absolutely do. My opinions are not driven by fear or emotion - they are driven by data.

Sadly I think that the vast majority of people who are irrationally afraid of the virus do not realize the damage that these lockdowns have on society. Both in terms of lives and the economy (which ultimately affects lives too).

[Local_NG_Idiot]

That being said, if you agree that there is fear causing people to irrationally not take the virus seriously, but don't agree that there is irrational fear that is causing people to take the virus way too seriously, you are just as ignorant as the side you are criticizing.

I hope you realize the difference between this dichotomy you're presenting right?

I absolutely do. My opinions are not driven by fear or emotion - they are driven by data.

Sadly I think that the vast majority of people who are irrationally afraid of the virus do not realize the damage that these lockdowns have on society. Both in terms of lives and the economy (which ultimately affects lives too).

Interesting that you only address one side of that irrational fear you mention and make statements like: "you are just as ignorant as the side you are criticizing."

But that wasn't even what I was alluding to. The difference in the dichotomy you are presenting as compared to reality.

[execoftheyear]

That being said, if you agree that there is fear causing people to irrationally not take the virus seriously, but don't agree that there is irrational fear that is causing people to take the virus way too seriously, you are just as ignorant as the side you are criticizing.

I hope you realize the difference between this dichotomy you're presenting right?

I absolutely do. My opinions are not driven by fear or emotion - they are driven by data.

Sadly I think that the vast majority of people who are irrationally afraid of the virus do not realize the damage that these lockdowns have on society. Both in terms of lives and the economy (which ultimately affects lives too).

if they were, you'd know that the lockdown measures are inevitable. Sweden, probably the most anti-lockdown country in the world, known for going against what everyone else is doing and being the model for people who are anti-lockdown is starting to implement stricter lockdown measures because of the upward trend in the data.

[Fairview4Life]

I hope you realize the difference between this dichotomy you're presenting right?

I absolutely do. My opinions are not driven by fear or emotion - they are driven by data.

Sadly I think that the vast majority of people who are irrationally afraid of the virus do not realize the damage that these lockdowns have on society. Both in terms of lives and the economy (which ultimately affects lives too).

if they were, you'd know that the lockdown measures are inevitable. Sweden, probably the most anti-lockdown country in the world, known for going against what everyone else is doing and being the model for people who are anti-lockdown is starting to implement stricter lockdown measures because of the upward trend in the data.

Read on Twitter

[GQStylin]

You want to know where they took their early planning and preventative measures from? Each LHIN had a Covid Task Group in place by late February made up of individuals from employees from LTCs of the area, care partners specialists, local hospital officials and other regional specialists. These task groups still meet daily to discuss the issues they face and the best solutions to those issues that are allowed within the Long-Term Care Homes Act.

If the government helped those LTCs that experienced little to know covid infections and deaths so much, then why weren't all LTCs as successful in keeping the virus away from their patients as those specific homes did? Maybe because the people in charge of those homes took independent action as the article stated which had nothing to do with the government who completely screwed up and those LTCs who did suffer significant deaths and infections were run by people who were screwed up too.

So yeah the government did setup rules, but it was the people who were in charge of those homes that took early action that were mostly successful in keeping their patients safe compared to directors of other LTCs who didn't and weren't as prepared and suffered much more. Lets give credit where credit is due to those LTC directors who were prepared.

As I stated before, that was a precautionary measure early on that was criticized heavily for delaying and canceling necessary treatments to Ontario patients. Now, you are advocating to repeat this mistake when hospitals are at capacity again (where some are already) and want to force them to choose who gets treatment and who doesn't so you can go about your 'normal day' without a worry. Get outta here with this garbage.

The point that you can't seem to admit to is that Ontario is ABSOLUTELY CAPABLE of incresasing the number of hospital beds for covid patients if necessary and it did so by making 10,000+ available by April 14. So lets not talk about this bullcrap that Ontario can't treat large amounts of virus patients if called upon and that we're 'running out of capacity'.

Also why is it so difficult for you to understand that it doesn't have to be an all or nothing deal? That you can simply increase the number of beds to treat covid patients as necessary instead of reserving thousands of beds for virus patients that may or may not materialize like we did the first time around so that we can have capacity for people with other medical issues?

In fact why not simply have several hospitals be designated as covid hospitals and move and treat all virus patients there and any new ones that show up? Then leave the rest of the hospitals to treat non-virus patients and you have less chance of an outbreak in non-covid patient hospitals.

If I have heart disease, I can't infect you with it when we come in contact or when we share an enclosed space. This is the dumbest analogy I've seen, like really **** stupid.

That's your problem. You care more about HOW someone died rather than that person actually dying. If Canada had 40,000+ virus deaths to date you'd be going insane over it and yet 40,000+ annually die of heart disease in the country and you don't bat an eye. That's the issue here. There's other illnesses that kill far more people over a far larger age demographic throughout the entire country and all you're freaking over is a virus that has taken 95% old people and sick and is mostly occuring in Ontario and Quebec.

Lets put it this way since you're so afraid of getting infected. What would you rather have? Getting covid or getting a heart attack? I'm betting you'd take the former even though you seem to believe the virus is worse than heart problems.

Aren't you the one that has been advocating for the elderly here and protecting them? WTF are you even ranting on about here?

You protect the vulnerable by isolating and taking care of them SPECIFICALLY. That's alot more effective and alot less damaging than what we're doing now.

There is a direct correlation between localized community spread and the same communities' LTC homes having outbreaks. LTCs homes exist, you cannot just ignore them like you seem to want to. The community needs to do their part in lowering viral load in order to protect the residence within the LTCs. This isn't rocket science and the data and preventative measures are there, you just continue to chose not to follow them and continue to be a selfish individual who refuses to accept any level of personal responsibility within your own community.

The best way to protect those patients is to isolate them and take every precaution to keep the virus out. If you have a strong bubble to protect them then it doesn't matter if there are 10 people or a million people outside that are infected when the bubble will keep those infections out. You've already seen how difficult it is to reduce the number of infections low and to keep it low. Why would you be as stupid as our politicians and medical experts and try to do that again when its already failed?

In the past two months Ontario has added 40,000 positive cases and have only added about 400 hospital cases in the same time frame. So yeah I don't think Ontario is doing anywhere near as bad as our media and idiot leaders are telling us.

[Fairview4Life]

Allowing the virus to spread uncontrolled across the rest of the population as long as you can keep it out of LTC facilities ignores both (a) that we just spent several pages learning about how there are actual people who work at LTC's who aren't isolated and are very difficult to isolate along with the residents, and (b) that if everyone else is getting sick the economy isn't going to be in good shape anyway. Just look at all the dumbass states like Idaho or wherever where the economy went into the toilet without any kind of lockdown. Because the virus is spreading out of control and no one wants to get it. So they stop going out and spending money all on their own. It isn't worth it for restaurants etc. to be open for 20-50% capacity, their margins are already super thin. The only way to have a functioning economy is to control the virus and reduce cases. That's it.

The dichotomy of dead/alive is incredibly stupid, but just as equally dumb is the idea that there's a lockdown vs. functioning economy dichotomy. That isn't how anything works in real life. People in Nova Scotia are currently allowed to go to the movie theater. How do you think movie receipts are looking here right now lol. Not great Bob! Because no one wants to get **** sick even if they aren't in an LTC facility! Cut some checks and get us to March. That's all that needs to happen. The country has the resources to keep people fed and alive until vaccines are distributed. Stop whining and suck it the **** up!

[NBA Sheady]

Primary efficacy analysis demonstrates BNT162b2 to be 95% effective against COVID-19 beginning 28 days after the first dose;170 confirmed cases of COVID-19 were evaluated, with 162 observed in the placebo group versus 8 in the vaccine group

Efficacy was consistent across age, gender, race and ethnicity demographics; observed efficacy in adults over 65 years of age was over 94%

Safety data milestone required by U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) has been achieved

Data demonstrate vaccine was well tolerated across all populations with over 43,000 participants enrolled; no serious safety concerns observed; the only Grade 3 adverse event greater than 2% in frequency was fatigue at 3.8% and headache at 2.0%

https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-conclude-phase-3-study-covid-19-vaccine?fbclid=IwAR3Nw-XDa5uUgrLm1BM3O179Slzweed_qya0CzCfk_l4hmvtnxo2mv_I7wo

[NBA Sheady]

Stop whining and suck it the **** up!

I wonder if we stopped responding to his utter stupidity would he stop posting.

[Basketball_Jones]

Lol partying inside a storage unit why would anyone want to do that? Anyways, Eileen is gonna lock down the province soon she basically runs Ontario now. It’s too damn cold for patios anyways people are crazy just stay in